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Give me Vypers. I like solo BL with expert crafters, and shuricannon ideally, for 70pts. They also love masters of concealment for a 2+. Part of what's so good about them is their speed, allowing you to score engage on all fronts with ease.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Oh yeah guys, I thought I'd spread the good word on Crimson Hunter Exarchs - I've been running a pair and they've proven very tanky.
EC/MoC traits, with evade exarch power gives your plane 2+/5++ and -1 to hit. That's a really good defensive profile in my book, and it's been unlocked by the change in how vehicles and heavy weapons interact, freeing up the exarch power.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/08/31 15:45:33
Still running my nine vypers in test games and they're still great. With that 2+ from concealment and just the number of wounds they are very tricky to shift and, as vehicles, are great screens for the squishy characters. I think a salamander relic whirlwind Scorpius with the +1 to wound strat was averaging a single vyper per volley.
Nice to hear the Che is doing well. I nearly bought one the other day but settled on two boxes of windriders to convert into spears.
Well, is there a consensus about using a unit of Wraithblades letting them move through the centre and holding it for a while or clearing an objective?
I think this is the only Eldar unit (bar vehicles) able to do so.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
I've used a 5 strong unit with Axe/Shiled and found them very worthwhile. I've painted another now and will run them at with 2 x 5 and 1 x 10 Wraithblades to see which I prefer.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
wuestenfux wrote: Well, is there a consensus about using a unit of Wraithblades letting them move through the centre and holding it for a while or clearing an objective?
I think this is the only Eldar unit (bar vehicles) able to do so.
I doubt there's a consensus, this is the internet after all! I think they're ok, great durability obviously, not very killy either unfortunately.
Their main weakness is that they're not obsec, if a single guardsman survives your attacks or gets move move moved onto your objective you've lost it.
So ideally you want to combine them with durable obsec, maybe a big blob of storm guardians with celestial shield and protect?
Possibly an iyanden patrol and use the psytronome to boost the attacks of the blades with the advantage that only one runs from morale?
wuestenfux wrote: Well, is there a consensus about using a unit of Wraithblades letting them move through the centre and holding it for a while or clearing an objective?
I think this is the only Eldar unit (bar vehicles) able to do so.
I doubt there's a consensus, this is the internet after all! I think they're ok, great durability obviously, not very killy either unfortunately.
Their main weakness is that they're not obsec, if a single guardsman survives your attacks or gets move move moved onto your objective you've lost it.
So ideally you want to combine them with durable obsec, maybe a big blob of storm guardians with celestial shield and protect?
Possibly an iyanden patrol and use the psytronome to boost the attacks of the blades with the advantage that only one runs from morale?
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Playing Imperial Fists on Saturday (hopefully), 2000pts "Scorched Earth" mission.
We've shared lists, and I'm going to be spending the next few days playing out my opening turns in my head!
Mostly I'm thinking about target priority. So far, this is what I'm thinking:
1) Repulsor Executioner
2) Helblasters if they're on Objectives/close to my own deployment zone
3) Invictor Warsuit
4) Incursors/Infiltrators that are on objectives
5) Aggressors that are on Objectives
6) whatever the flyer is called (has two assault cannons)
7) Cataphract Captain and/or Lieutenant
What do y'all think? Would anybody change the order?
NuhJuhKuh wrote: Playing Imperial Fists on Saturday (hopefully), 2000pts "Scorched Earth" mission.
We've shared lists, and I'm going to be spending the next few days playing out my opening turns in my head!
Mostly I'm thinking about target priority. So far, this is what I'm thinking:
1) Repulsor Executioner
2) Helblasters if they're on Objectives/close to my own deployment zone
3) Invictor Warsuit
4) Incursors/Infiltrators that are on objectives
5) Aggressors that are on Objectives
6) whatever the flyer is called (has two assault cannons)
7) Cataphract Captain and/or Lieutenant
What do y'all think? Would anybody change the order?
NuhJuhKuh wrote: Playing Imperial Fists on Saturday (hopefully), 2000pts "Scorched Earth" mission.
We've shared lists, and I'm going to be spending the next few days playing out my opening turns in my head!
Mostly I'm thinking about target priority. So far, this is what I'm thinking:
1) Repulsor Executioner
2) Helblasters if they're on Objectives/close to my own deployment zone
3) Invictor Warsuit
4) Incursors/Infiltrators that are on objectives
5) Aggressors that are on Objectives
6) whatever the flyer is called (has two assault cannons)
7) Cataphract Captain and/or Lieutenant
What do y'all think? Would anybody change the order?
I'd consider units first that threaten your front ranks such as Invitors and infiltrating units.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
We have also pre-determined the mission - “Scorched Earth” from the BRB. For secondaries I’m thinking Psychic Ritual, Take it Down, and... the one for getting into table quarters
kingheff wrote: You think wraithblades are very reliant on protect?
Yes. In a lot cases it means sacrificing jinx over protect.
If you going to spend 400pts on them.. The 3++ over 4++ makes a huge difference to the point where people just dont shoot or take an entire army worth of shooting them allowing them to do their job either way. I been running wraiths every game in 8th. Variations of the vigilius specialist detachments and then later axes when the pts came down.
They only have a 3+ base and 3 W isitn that hard to chew through with some re-rolls with plasma and bolters. I have found them a very all or nothing unit. As in youu go all in or them or dont bother taking them. There are better things to take for their pts IMO with more utility or firepower.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/01 21:29:32
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
kingheff wrote: You think wraithblades are very reliant on protect?
Yes. In a lot cases it means sacrificing jinx over protect.
If you going to spend 400pts on them.. The 3++ over 4++ makes a huge difference to the point where people just dont shoot or take an entire army worth of shooting them allowing them to do their job either way.
I been running wraiths every game in 8th. Variations of the vigilius specialist detachments and then later axes when the pts came down.
They only have a 3+ base and 3 W isitn that hard to chew through with some re-rolls with plasma and bolters.
I have found them a very all or nothing unit. As in youu go all in or them or dont bother taking them. There are better things to take for their pts IMO with more utility or firepower.
I see your point but, personally, I struggle to see me putting a unit of ten on the table. Four hundred points is a huge chunk of the list and is pretty slow and has average damage output because of the -1 to hit. I get the tankiness argument but without obsec they lose the objective to a single scout etc.
I can see a min squad or two being useful but I don't think 9th really supports a big blob of ten.
Thats exactly i..t I like them and my fav unit but I dont dont think they are good enough to be considered top tier competitive due to the cost slowness and no range.
Perhaps a 5 strong squad as a throw away counter charge measure but I'd rather take two wraith-lords if I have the slots as its likely Ill be running EC anyway and they can apply damage from T1.
But taking 2x5 might as well take 10 strong unit and buff them I guess is what im saying.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
I'm thinking more about deepstriking a unit of five in midgame to harass tanks etc hiding in the backfield. Still not sure it's an amazing strategy but it's the best I can think of.
Overall though I think I'd just go for spears, faster, good firepower comparable melee. Less tanky obviously but we're eldar not death guard, we don't have enough options to play the camping on objectives and surviving game.
kingheff wrote: You think wraithblades are very reliant on protect?
Yes. In a lot cases it means sacrificing jinx over protect.
If you going to spend 400pts on them.. The 3++ over 4++ makes a huge difference to the point where people just dont shoot or take an entire army worth of shooting them allowing them to do their job either way.
I been running wraiths every game in 8th. Variations of the vigilius specialist detachments and then later axes when the pts came down.
They only have a 3+ base and 3 W isitn that hard to chew through with some re-rolls with plasma and bolters.
I have found them a very all or nothing unit. As in youu go all in or them or dont bother taking them. There are better things to take for their pts IMO with more utility or firepower.
Fortune would also help to keep them alive and kicking.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
I think you're going to need 2 runes casters and a farseer dedicated to babysitting your axe blob to make them shine - they need fortune, protect and quicken imo. They'd love enhance too, but that's a luxury.
What I loved about swords in the vigilus detachment was their ability to blender any unit they touched, on top of their buffable defence. With the +1A and peerles disdain strats they became horrible, especially if you had someone throwing enhance on them. Expected damage of 37 vs MEQ, for example, or 22 against a knight, w/no doom. They chugged down CP so fast that you only got two rounds out of them at that level, but it was lovely.
Axes feel so toothless by comparison. Ah well, it's the way of edition changes I suppose.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/03 06:42:39
Axe Blades in a list with Wrath of the Dead and Hunters of Ancient Relics are getting enough attacks to offset the -1 to hit. Add Protect and Fortune, they will hang on objectives and hit anything that gets close.
As for deterring obsec troops, use the wave serpent to push out opponents and get the wraiths beyond the objective, not directly on it.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Has anyone had any success building lists that don't give up maximum bring it down points?
I keep trying to come up with something that doesn't include a skew towards monsters and vehicles but I'm struggling to find a list I'm happy with.
kingheff wrote: Has anyone had any success building lists that don't give up maximum bring it down points?
I keep trying to come up with something that doesn't include a skew towards monsters and vehicles but I'm struggling to find a list I'm happy with.
What enemy lists do you have in mind?
One also finds mech Eldar lists with minimum troop support.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
I'm just trying to come up with tac lists that aren't heavy on vehicles.
I usually get about as far as three squads of five spears, characters and some avengers then I start struggling to find much that isn't depending on transports.
I'm taking the following to a 5 round event this weekend. I won't claim it is any good, but it the list is skewed away from vehicles.
1 x 1 Farseer Skyrunner
1 x 5 Warlock Skyrunner Conclave
2 x 5 Dire Avengers
1 x 10 Wraithblades (Axe and Shield)
1 x 5 Shining Spears
1 x 1 Hemlock Wraithfighter
1 x 1 Troupe Master
1 x 1 Shadowseer
2 x 5 Troupe
1 x1 Death Jester
1 x 4 Skyweaver
We shall see if I can pressure armies enough to let the troop units score the bulk of my points.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/09/04 10:40:51
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
Sarigar wrote: I'm taking the following to a 5 round event this weekend. I won't claim it is any good, but it the list is skewed away from vehicles.
1 x 1 Farseer Skyrunner
1 x 5 Warlock Skyrunner Conclave
2 x 5 Dire Avengers
1 x 10 Wraithblades (Axe and Shield)
1 x 5 Shining Spears
1 x 1 Hemlock Wraithfighter
1 x 1 Troupe Master
1 x 1 Shadowseer
2 x 5 Troupe
1 x1 Death Jester
1 x 4 Skyweaver
We shall see if I can pressure armies enough to let the troop units score the bulk of my points.
Nice, I shall look forward to hearing how you got on.
Sarigar wrote: I'm taking the following to a 5 round event this weekend. I won't claim it is any good, but it the list is skewed away from vehicles.
1 x 1 Farseer Skyrunner
1 x 5 Warlock Skyrunner Conclave
2 x 5 Dire Avengers
1 x 10 Wraithblades (Axe and Shield)
1 x 5 Shining Spears
1 x 1 Hemlock Wraithfighter
1 x 1 Troupe Master
1 x 1 Shadowseer
2 x 5 Troupe
1 x1 Death Jester
1 x 4 Skyweaver
We shall see if I can pressure armies enough to let the troop units score the bulk of my points.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
- Shining Spears -
Ynnari: Occasionally first strike or +1 to hit in cc. Access to advance and charge strategem. Lack of fortune and protect.
CWE: More attacks with hunters of ancient relics and either expert crafters or headstrong for easier charge rolls. Defensive buffs.
With Ynnari i'd tend to run them in small squads as they lack protection and it helps to activate SfD.
Multiple squads are harder to hide in the webway though and Ynnari lack the charge bonus of CWE.
With CWE i would take large squads. Fortune and protect for durability and doom for better damage.
They can hide in the webway and appear with +4 to charge with Ghostwalk, Headstrong and Swooping Dive.
Don't forget that with CWE you can take a Warlock with Quicken and yolo them ahead 28 inch in one turn, or move after coming in from deepstrike. It makes charging incredibly easy. You can only do it on one unit, of course.
Both is not correct:
1. If you use quicken on Shining Spears you can move up 44 Inches (without being able to charge) or 32 inches (while stil being able to charge). 2. and more importantly: A unit arriving via deepstrike can NEVER move for any reason with the exception being a charge move. So no: you cannot drop in a unit from deep strike and them quicken than for a guaranteed 2 inch charge move.
I definitely agree with you on the first point, I keep mixing up movement ranges on units, and often enough the difference of a couple of inches doesn't matter that much when you're already flying across the entire board.
Regarding the second point, I guess that is indeed how the rules can be read. I've been playing it wrong...
It's been that way for a couple of years now, Sieban is definitely right. But if you need a DS-charge to go off, a warlock with ghostwalk is a great choice. 7" with a reroll isn't 2" but it's still much more reliable. You could even give them their own detachment with hunters of ancient relics and +1 to charge, if it's a key to your gameplan.
Eldar- 4436 pts
