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I don't get it, help me out here! 10 banshees (160pts) do 8.1 damage to aggressors, assuming WS2 and reroll wounds. That's not bad but not very good either, considering it's setup dependent (cast or 2cp). 160pts of frozen stars do way more, for example.
I like Banshees. Play them myself, and have taken 3x5 to a couple of tournaments in 8e. Help me to understand why you rate them so highly and I will be very thankful!
What bonuses do you give your banshees to make them so successful? Does the fight first ability really make them that good? What exarch power were you bringing?
Also congrats on doing so well in the tourney! It warms my soul seeing twenty banshees screaming down the field with decent success
Reroll 1s from the Visarch makes a big difference when you're hitting on 2s from Ynnari, and reroll all wounds from the spell or the strat is pretty key for them do do damage. Fight first is actually pretty nice. Your last question saddens me as Ynnari units are arbitrarily prohibited from having different exarch powers, though I'd probably stick with war shout in most cases. It keeps them around in melee long enough for the fight first to matter.
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grouchoben wrote: I don't get it, help me out here! 10 banshees (160pts) do 8.1 damage to aggressors, assuming WS2 and reroll wounds. That's not bad but not very good either, considering it's setup dependent (cast or 2cp). 160pts of frozen stars do way more, for example.
I like Banshees. Play them myself, and have taken 3x5 to a couple of tournaments in 8e. Help me to understand why you rate them so highly and I will be very thankful!
They're 150 pts, no upgrades for the exarch.
It's not exactly a fair comparison. First off, I'm not posting this in Harlequins. They are decidedly the better army, and all their units are under costed when compared to their craftworld equivalents. I don't think that will last forever though, so it I don't think we need to swap over completely.
Second, they perform a different role. The bonus to their charge range is huge, it makes a bigger difference than you'd think. I have never failed a charge with them. The overwatch stopping is great too. The death jester can stop one unit, but banchees stop everything they can touch. Often I have the squad tap into multiple units, and my one Troupe and characters file in after them unmolested. With expensive fragile melee units it makes a big difference. Also still being able to shoot their pistols with battle focus, unlike harlequins adds some extra utility with clearing light screening units and chipping damage.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/12/06 23:46:59
40K Armies: Ultramarines, Tau, Ynnari, Orks, and Thousand Sons.
Well done on the tournament result, it seems like you had some solid matches played to net you the win.
I'm sorry, but I don't see how they can be amazing, but maybe I'm in the same boat as grouchoben here and not getting what makes them good. Especially now that you've mentioned not even giving the Exarch an upgrade weapon like the executioner. The comparison to frozen stars is a valid one as they can be souped together and with that option, I'd never run banshees.
They're literally a tarpit unit, and not a very good one now that you have to pay for overwatch in 9th ed. Even with Str-4 power weapons, they absolutely do not tear through marines unless they're mini-marines.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/07 11:49:49
Thanks footfoe! Yeah I get you re: the unfair comparison. But it's not reallllly, as the sticker price is 2cp to soup in some frozen stars, and we're not exatcly spoilt with must-use stratagems, so 9-10cp with autarch regen seems like plenty.
I think I even prefer Wyches as they leverage hard against some infantry units that really don't want to be in CC, and they're tougher and troops too. Again, I get that they're not a CWE unit but they are a unit that a CWE army has easy access to, so the line is pretty weak between these units. If I'm running a melee eldar army (and who doesn't want to?) then I weigh all these units equally.
At the end of 8e I went 4-1 with a list that had 15 banshees, 27 wyches, Drazhar and the Yncarne in, it was a lot of fun. With their rough points hike and their loss of functionality (with the minimisation of overwatch) in an edition that prioritises take and hold, I just don't see em working very well until they get a significant rewrite, as much as it pains me to say it...If I was running that list today it would be wych batallion and a gunny CWE spearhead...
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/12/07 16:15:13
It's not exactly a fair comparison. First off, I'm not posting this in Harlequins. They are decidedly the better army, and all their units are under costed when compared to their craftworld equivalents. I don't think that will last forever though, so it I don't think we need to swap over completely.
Second, they perform a different role. The bonus to their charge range is huge, it makes a bigger difference than you'd think. I have never failed a charge with them. The overwatch stopping is great too.
Did you take hunters of the ancient relics? I assume with Banshees that's a good choice. I'm a huge fan of Banshees and have lots (maybe,.. 20-25? I would like to wish 30,..). Just wondering actually if you are taking any custom craftworld traits or is this Ynnari strait across the board?
I'm also going to guess you keep them in the WSs as counter charges and use their huge charge bonus mid field rather than alpha-strike?
Its pure Ynnari so no custom traits. Using a custom craftworld with relics and savage blades with frozen stars for the Harlequins might be better. I might try that, but I like the Ynnari rules a lot.
40K Armies: Ultramarines, Tau, Ynnari, Orks, and Thousand Sons.
footfoe wrote: Its pure Ynnari so no custom traits. Using a custom craftworld with relics and savage blades with frozen stars for the Harlequins might be better. I might try that, but I like the Ynnari rules a lot.
Fair enough, I'm a long time fan of Banshees and aspects in general so I love that you're representing and giving them some life.
Tyranid Horde wrote: Well done on the tournament result, it seems like you had some solid matches played to net you the win.
I'm sorry, but I don't see how they can be amazing, but maybe I'm in the same boat as grouchoben here and not getting what makes them good. Especially now that you've mentioned not even giving the Exarch an upgrade weapon like the executioner. The comparison to frozen stars is a valid one as they can be souped together and with that option, I'd never run banshees.
They're literally a tarpit unit, and not a very good one now that you have to pay for overwatch in 9th ed. Even with Str-4 power weapons, they absolutely do not tear through marines unless they're mini-marines.
Footfoe, do you mind explaining how you play them etc? Not discrediting your win but I just don't see them as a viable option without an explanation for what makes them good as Ynnari.
Tyranid Horde wrote: Well done on the tournament result, it seems like you had some solid matches played to net you the win.
I'm sorry, but I don't see how they can be amazing, but maybe I'm in the same boat as grouchoben here and not getting what makes them good. Especially now that you've mentioned not even giving the Exarch an upgrade weapon like the executioner. The comparison to frozen stars is a valid one as they can be souped together and with that option, I'd never run banshees.
They're literally a tarpit unit, and not a very good one now that you have to pay for overwatch in 9th ed. Even with Str-4 power weapons, they absolutely do not tear through marines unless they're mini-marines.
Footfoe, do you mind explaining how you play them etc? Not discrediting your win but I just don't see them as a viable option without an explanation for what makes them good as Ynnari.
I think its the combination of fairly achievable 2+ hit with reroll 1's (via autarch etc) and doom strat with little investment or set up and potential acess to the Yncarne who is himself beast.
From a CWE perspective you'd have to give up a jinx/protect to cast empower and also be in range.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
I think banshees can work well as a toolbox type unit more than as an out and out damage dealer.
Their speed and overwatch denying capabilities mean they can always be useful even though their damage output is a bit lacking.
Hi, guys. Just wanted to share some personal anecdotal experiences with some of our less popular units. Most of my games are in a relatively casual environment, so take all this with a few shakes of salt.
BANSHEES
I'm an Iybraesil player, so I try to use banshees whenever I feel I can get away with it. I've mainly been using a squad of 5 with an executioner exarch. The exarch pays an extra CP to keep the -1 to hit and also takes Disarming Strike. The unit usually rides in a a serpent with a small squad of avengers with shimmer shield + battle fortune + defend. In casual games, I take Hunters of Ancient Relics as one of my craftworld traits.
The banshees themselves are a flexible temporary tarpit unit that I can launch across the table (usually on turn 2). They'll die quickly to units with a decent volume of attacks, but it only takes a little luck for them to be surprisingly durable against units that get a lot of their damage output from a small number of expensive attacks. Putting disarming strike on, for instance, a captain or brood lord means that the unit will generally remain alive with a couple wounds remaining, thus keeping whatever I charged from shooting (and maybe tying it up for a turn).
If I send the banshees after the same target as the avengers (usually an enemy unit standing on an objective), my opponent is torn between swinging against two different units that are at -1 to hit. If they don't focus on the banshees, I retain some offense in the subsequent player turn. If they don't focus on the avengers, I have obsec models that might be stealing an objective for me. Melee weapon sergeants hate swinging into 4+ invul avenger exarchs after having their attacks reduced by a banshee exarch.
All that said, banshee offense still isn't quite there. S4 power swords help a lot. Hunters of Ancient Relics help a lot. But A3 S4 banshees still struggle to put much of a dent in 2W marines. They do, however, hit T3 targets pretty hard now.
STRIKING SCORPIONS
My ability to make these guys work continues to diminish over time. At two attacks, they completely fail at being the melee horde clearers I once used them as. The scorpion's claw, while still a decent investment, just isn't a reliable source of damage; even with Expert Crafters. My best luck with them this edition has been with a small squad with the Stalker (-1 to being hit while in cover) power serving as relatively cheap objective holders and screens. I want to like the 5+ mandiblaster power; it's cute when you manage do do a bunch of mortal wounds, but mortal wounds are most efficient against expensive models that the scorpions tend to not pair against very well. Anyone finding a better way to use these guys?
FIRE DRAGONS
These guys really weren't all that worth it last edition. In the past, a suicide meltagun unit could be worth it because they could reliably nuke an expensive vehicle (or several lighter ones) during the single shooting phase they participated in before dying. Now, 5 dragons struggle to reliably kill a rhino in one turn let alone something more durable.
That said, I think they might actually be pretty decent at the moment. Multi-wound (and 3 wound) marines being hot in the meta means that dragons struggling to find a vehicle to roast can probably find a reasonably expensive squad of marines to hurt.
Also, while the unit is expensive, taking a big squad of dragons gives you enough offense to kill some of the bigger vehicles in the game (like repulsors). In 8th edition, there were enough screens running around that I struggled to deliver dragons into a good position. But in 9th, the webway strat might get the dragons where they need to be to nuke a big, critical target.
I really want to like the dragon's bite for large squads (as it lets us continue to do damage after we get charged), but banking on our opponent's to fail to kill us in both shooting and melee has proven kind of situational for me. I have, however, found that the Tank Killer exarch power (reroll a damage die) is pretty decent coming out o the webway. Especially if I"m running Expert Crafters.
Dragons are sitll a bit awkward. They're a short-ranged unit with no escape plan and limited defenses. Their high points cost makes you want to point them at your opponent's expensive units, but they're only killy enough to kill something like a land raider (or seriously harm a knight) if you take a larger, even more expensive squad. And they're easy to compare unfavorably to eradicators - a 3 man squad of which has basically the same offense while also being far more durable. But I feel like you can make dragons work in the current meta.
Also, am I crazy or are dark reapers with masterful shots seriously good in the marine-heavy meta?
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
I agree with your assessment of these sub-par units in our trash tier codex. It feels REALLY bad to compare any of our units to space marine units because of the glaring difference in effectiveness for point cost.
To get any real damage out of units like fire dragons and dark reapers they need to be MSU or one big squad. MSU really cuts down on the damage out put vs. some units where you need full re-roll to hit and wound, but at the same time bringing big units leaves them extremely vulnerable to any ranged firepower or fast assault units.
I tried bringing a big squad of fire dragons but they don't do well against armies that don't have a big 300pt+ target for them to suicide against. Reapers seem interesting for a large squad but any indirect fire weapons or targeted mortal wound powers are going to rip them apart quickly as they have no invuln and only 1wound each. The point cost trade off seems really crappy against gravis/primaris marines too. Like even if you do kill 5 intercessors or 3 eradicators with 5 dark reapers (which isn't that probably to happen) the intercessors and eradicators are still cheaper than the dark reapers by at least 40-60 points AND that same squad of intercessors can kill your dark reapers in one shot. We're at that fox news level of fair and balanced along with imperial guard (and even guard can just bring a horde to score some points)
Eldar are just in a gak spot, its almost depressing trying to make lists right now
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/12/21 02:39:11
I agree with your assessment of these sub-par units in our trash tier codex. It feels REALLY bad to compare any of our units to space marine units because of the glaring difference in effectiveness for point cost.
To get any real damage out of units like fire dragons and dark reapers they need to be MSU or one big squad. MSU really cuts down on the damage out put vs. some units where you need full re-roll to hit and wound, but at the same time bringing big units leaves them extremely vulnerable to any ranged firepower or fast assault units.
I tried bringing a big squad of fire dragons but they don't do well against armies that don't have a big 300pt+ target for them to suicide against. Reapers seem interesting for a large squad but any indirect fire weapons or targeted mortal wound powers are going to rip them apart quickly as they have no invuln and only 1wound each. The point cost trade off seems really crappy against gravis/primaris marines too. Like even if you do kill 5 intercessors or 3 eradicators with 5 dark reapers (which isn't that probably to happen) the intercessors and eradicators are still cheaper than the dark reapers by at least 40-60 points AND that same squad of intercessors can kill your dark reapers in one shot. We're at that fox news level of fair and balanced along with imperial guard (and even guard can just bring a horde to score some points)
Eldar are just in a gak spot, its almost depressing trying to make lists right now
Think thats bad, go play Tau... go second with a "good" list, you lose, even against pure chaos space marines. Really, everyone is just bad against marines, but most everyone is good against anything else.
Drukhari, Harlequins and Orks all have game at the moment, albeit with limited list builds. Sisters have a case to be the top army at the moment and have a great success rate, hampered a little by how hard it's been to actually buy an army's worth of them.
Daemons are the surprise winners of 9e.
Tau and CWE are propping up the bottom of the tables, I think they have 1 top-4 finish between them in 9e GTs.
Think thats bad, go play Tau... go second with a "good" list, you lose, even against pure chaos space marines. Really, everyone is just bad against marines, but most everyone is good against anything else.
I wasn't really trying to draw comparisons to marines, but I do feel that a couple of the units I mentioned (dragons and scorpions) hold up about equally as well against most opponents. My scorpions bounce off of marines, but they also don't do much against anything else. 2 Attacks at AP0 only goes so far even against something like a fire warrior.
Weirdly enough, fire dragons might actually do better against marines than against most armies. Sure, they compare poorly to eradicators, but all these multi-wound marines make weirdly okay (not great) targets for them. Like, I'd rather nuke a repulsor with a squad of dragons, but I won't be disappointed if I "only" wipe out some sort of grav-armored unit instead. Also, most marine vehicles don't have invuln saves. Compare that to shooting them at tau who will push a bunch of their damage onto drones, 'crons that have invul saves on a bunch of their more expensive targets now, or even drukhari whose vehicles have invulns and usually aren't that expensive to begin with.
Which isn't to say that tau and craftworlders couldn't stand to get a bit of a boost.
Banshees definitely do look better against a lot of non-marine armies than they used to though. They're pretty happy charging into fire warriors, sisters, etc. now. And when you send them to tarpit a shooty unit in the backfield, you might even be able to bank on them eventually winning the fight now. So that's nice.
ATTENTION. Psychic tests are unfluffy. Your longing for AV is understandable but misguided. Your chapter doesn't need a separate codex. Doctrines should go away. Being a "troop" means nothing. This has been a cranky service announcement. You may now resume your regularly scheduled arguing.
kingheff wrote: I've been having some more games on TTS and thought I'd bring them up here. Nothing relevatory I'm afraid, I still can't get away from being it down! But one of the most important aspects of building your list, if possible, is to try and keep the possibility of scoring secondaries on your own terms built in to your army. Relying on your opponent to give you a secondary can leave you with some issues. So with my current list I've built in engage on all fronts, while we stand we fight and deploy scramblers. I must admit I haven't put too much resources into scramblers, just the avengers, but it's there if I need it and with the webway strat it's been ok but if I get a kill secondary option I'll often drop scramblers. But overall I'm winning more than losing, the list is still pretty tough for most armies to take down and still hits very hard.
Sorry for reengaging an older entry. How do you rate 2 x 3 Vibro Cannons? I've used 1 x 3 in the past and felt they were 'ok' for the points, but no clear indicator to include a second unit. Can you help shed some light on the choice?
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
I'm also curious how vibro cannons are performing. I never felt like they had enough AP to deal with the targets they want to shoot at. Even when they were a hot unit to take they never really fit my playstyle so I wonder what other dar players think makes them so useful.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/12/25 00:09:51
Regarding Vibros I still find them useful because of the backfield screening they provide as much as their firepower.
Expert crafters still allows their shooting to be nice and efficient, the movement debuff is also useful on things like bikers and transports. They're not super killy but they chip in every battle.
Nine is better for screening but six can still spread out nicely to prevent deepstriking, combined with the speed and manouvrability of the rest of the force I can zone out big swathes of the board.
I haven't had a game for a while but I'm hoping to get a few games whilst enjoying my christmas holiday so I'll be keen to see how it holds up now.
Chipping some extra damage is something I found useful; hold off on firing with them until last (almost last). Only running three and with coherency did not feel like they blocked much out against reinforcements, but can see how 6-9 would help.
Thanks form the input.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
Support weapon batteries are pretty good in 9th edition. Because they are vehicles they can move and fire without penalty, so they can easily spread out after deployment. However, they also hemorrhage points for secondary objectives, but there's not much that can be done about that.
D-cannon have benefitted even more than vibro cannon. The smaller battlefields and the increase in LOS-blocking terrain has made it easier for them to stay safe and increased their utility, as they can hit almost everything on the field after scooting up 6". LOS-blocking is both good and bad for vibro cannon: now they can hide until they need to shoot, but it can be more difficult for several of them to draw a bead on the same target.
Madness is however an affliction which in war carries with it the advantage of surprise - Winston Churchill
Saber wrote: Support weapon batteries are pretty good in 9th edition. Because they are vehicles they can move and fire without penalty, so they can easily spread out after deployment. However, they also hemorrhage points for secondary objectives, but there's not much that can be done about that.
D-cannon have benefitted even more than vibro cannon. The smaller battlefields and the increase in LOS-blocking terrain has made it easier for them to stay safe and increased their utility, as they can hit almost everything on the field after scooting up 6". LOS-blocking is both good and bad for vibro cannon: now they can hide until they need to shoot, but it can be more difficult for several of them to draw a bead on the same target.
I had to reread the codex entry after your post. All this time I thought they had to stay within 6" the entire time. I just learned it is just at deployment, haha. I wonder how that will change in my future games.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
Sarigar wrote: I had to reread the codex entry after your post. All this time I thought they had to stay within 6" the entire time. I just learned it is just at deployment, haha. I wonder how that will change in my future games.
I make those kinds of mistakes all the time, especially now that the rules change all the time. I try to make a point of reading the rulebook, codex, or errata once a month at bedtime, just to keep all the details fresh. This was a lot easier back in 6th and 7th when I was playing more often, often in tournaments, when my opponents could increase my knowledge. Nowadays I play a couple times a month on average and mostly against more casual players who, while they're fine opponents, don't have the incentive to know the rules inside and out.
Madness is however an affliction which in war carries with it the advantage of surprise - Winston Churchill
The way they can spread out after deployment is the main reason I take them. Plus it helps with their survivability, being single five wound models makes them difficult to take out efficiently with things like eradicators or charging blade guard.
I'm interested in the d cannons but with the slow movement I'm not sure if they're what I want, I'd take warwalkers with twin star cannons over them for the same points. At 45 pts vibros and the longer range just look like the better option.
kingheff wrote: The way they can spread out after deployment is the main reason I take them. Plus it helps with their survivability, being single five wound models makes them difficult to take out efficiently with things like eradicators or charging blade guard.
I'm interested in the d cannons but with the slow movement I'm not sure if they're what I want, I'd take warwalkers with twin star cannons over them for the same points. At 45 pts vibros and the longer range just look like the better option.
I was missing the ability for them to spread out which makes a lot more sense now. I've played 1x3 Vibro Cannons and always kept them within 6", which felt like they would get bunched up a bit. I'm going to try them again but actually play them correctly and see how they perform.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
I had received complaints from some players about me tailoring my army to face Marines. Ironically, nearly everyone I play against, even in tourneys are Marine lists. However, I relented and adjusted my list. I got to play today against Marines (surprise). Well, the massed adjustment to my list left me with trying to kill units with S4, 1D weapons. During the game, I watched 2 Aggessors and 1 Eradicator brought back from the grave and a total of four more wounds negated by a lone Apothecary.
After suffering a significant loss, I'm going right back to at least what provides a tactical and challenging game. It will be a skew list as the codex is a very early 8th edition codex and Marines are on their third codex release which has them dialed for 9th edition. A bit of a rant, but until a new Craftworld codex is released, I'll be running massed vehicles, Starcannons, and as much other multi damage weapons as I can muster.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
Sarigar wrote: I had received complaints from some players about me tailoring my army to face Marines. Ironically, nearly everyone I play against, even in tourneys are Marine lists. However, I relented and adjusted my list. I got to play today against Marines (surprise). Well, the massed adjustment to my list left me with trying to kill units with S4, 1D weapons. During the game, I watched 2 Aggessors and 1 Eradicator brought back from the grave and a total of four more wounds negated by a lone Apothecary.
After suffering a significant loss, I'm going right back to at least what provides a tactical and challenging game. It will be a skew list as the codex is a very early 8th edition codex and Marines are on their third codex release which has them dialed for 9th edition. A bit of a rant, but until a new Craftworld codex is released, I'll be running massed vehicles, Starcannons, and as much other multi damage weapons as I can muster.
I agree 100%. Play soft only when you already have the best army in the current meta.
Sarigar wrote: I had received complaints from some players about me tailoring my army to face Marines. Ironically, nearly everyone I play against, even in tourneys are Marine lists. However, I relented and adjusted my list. I got to play today against Marines (surprise). Well, the massed adjustment to my list left me with trying to kill units with S4, 1D weapons. During the game, I watched 2 Aggessors and 1 Eradicator brought back from the grave and a total of four more wounds negated by a lone Apothecary.
After suffering a significant loss, I'm going right back to at least what provides a tactical and challenging game. It will be a skew list as the codex is a very early 8th edition codex and Marines are on their third codex release which has them dialed for 9th edition. A bit of a rant, but until a new Craftworld codex is released, I'll be running massed vehicles, Starcannons, and as much other multi damage weapons as I can muster.
Tell them it must be nice to have an army that's necessary/worth skewing against as opposed to an army that just dies nice and efficiently regardless of the opposition!
I currently struggle as well with CW. I feel like all our mechanics are rusted and it's hard to compete with those all-troops armies like necrons.
I recently incorporated lots of FW units in my liste, along with 2 blobs of shining and it worked well: lynx and wraithseer fits a lot in the counter-meta in my opinion. The flat 3 dmgPA-3 from the lynx fits so well with expert crafters and is suited to crush gravis.
What do you think about FW to save our craftworlds?
I've thought about using a wraithseer with a d cannon to sit behind cover providing indirect fire, psychic support and counter charge threat. 170 pts is definitely on the pricey side but he can output a lot of damage in three phases or buff/debuff.
Pulse lasers with the flat 3 damage are always nice, wherever you can get them.
Pulse Lasers are quite nice. I've got a Lynx on the way just to try. It is pointed aggressively. It makes me wonder why the Hemlock costs as much as a Lynx.
The Hornets, while good, do not hit as hard as before and I'm on the fence whether they are worth the points (I am referring to using Hornet Pulse Lasers). S7 is situational and 2D is solid. The -2 AP is a challenge against Marine armies. When using, be sure to prioritize 2W Marines before going after 3W Marines for efficiency.
I've not tried the updated Wraithseer, though I do have one. I've toyed with the idea of running 3 x Wraithlords and 3 x Wraithseers with a Warlock as an Ynarri detachment. Get the Warlock killed immediately and pay the CP to give the Wraith models Strength fro Death.
The other FW units did not appeal to me, but open if others have any ideas.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
Eldar- 4436 pts
Craftworlds Eldar: 8500
Harlequins: 1000
Raven Guard: 1500
