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artific3r wrote:
The rule explicitly says a warlock conclave can cast both sides of a power in the same phase. Page 124 at the top.

Correct.

My mistake. I just took the word of others that you could only do one or the other each phase.

We are talking about a four man squad being able to cast protect and jinx in the same round correct? Conclaves don't just get to cast both do they unless I missed something big.

That is what is being discussed. It explicitly states they can during matched play on page 124 of the codex.

Even a two man can cast protect and jinx simultaneously even though they can only cast one power per round? That doesn't sound right but I'm not near my codex and I've never used a conclave so I may have just missed that.

The number of Warlocks in a Conclave determine the number of powers able to be cast as well as deny . That is why 4 Warlocks was mentioned as that is the minimum needed to cast 2 powers ( Jinx and Protect, for eaxample). That is described in the Warlock Conclave entry.

Two Warlocks only cast one power (Jinx OR Protect).

I personally don't think Conclaves are competitive at all, the few upsides are nullified by the downsides compared to just taking single Warlocks or Spiritseers.

That being said if focus will is used on them you would be able to reliably cast a number of runes of battle powers. Thus making best use of focus will as Farseers being the other candidates have reliable casting already.
But that being said it would mean you would need to waste a power from some other seer to cast focus will.

Also to add d6 smite for the points it costs to get that on the conclave is an awful option, d6 is not reliable enough, better to have 2 seperate smiters or other mortal wound powers

New FAQ's are up. Looks like all our troops went down 2ppm. It's not much but at least it's something.

kryczek wrote:
New FAQ's are up. Looks like all our troops went down 2ppm. It's not much but at least it's something.

Yep best change so far for our Dire avengers now the 2nd shuriken catapult on the exarch it's free wich mean we can take minimum squads for just 55 points.

Fire and fading from a transport looks to be back in, or am I mistaken? Surely that will be nerfed again.

 Sarigar wrote:
The number of Warlocks in a Conclave determine the number of powers able to be cast as well as deny . That is why 4 Warlocks was mentioned as that is the minimum needed to cast 2 powers ( Jinx and Protect, for eaxample). That is described in the Warlock Conclave entry.

Two Warlocks only cast one power (Jinx OR Protect).

Yeah, that's how I figured it must work. A two man conclave doesn't seem bad at all, as long as you've got the cp to make use of them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Seems like most of our infantry took a reasonable price cut and our best stuff got left alone, so I'm reasonably happy.
We still need a new codex to compete with the big boys but I'll take any help we can get at the moment!

 kingheff wrote:

 Sarigar wrote:
The number of Warlocks in a Conclave determine the number of powers able to be cast as well as deny . That is why 4 Warlocks was mentioned as that is the minimum needed to cast 2 powers ( Jinx and Protect, for eaxample). That is described in the Warlock Conclave entry.

Two Warlocks only cast one power (Jinx OR Protect).

Yeah, that's how I figured it must work. A two man conclave doesn't seem bad at all, as long as you've got the cp to make use of them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Seems like most of our infantry took a reasonable price cut and our best stuff got left alone, so I'm reasonably happy.
We still need a new codex to compete with the big boys but I'll take any help we can get at the moment!

CP certainly are a factor. My list morphed into a single Battalion to maximize them. I tend to spend 4 CP on turn one alone (Seer Council, Concordance of Power, extra Farseer power, Fire and Fade).

I think that the changes to bring it down will make a massive difference to us. More so than the points changes.

 Lord Perversor wrote:

kryczek wrote:
New FAQ's are up. Looks like all our troops went down 2ppm. It's not much but at least it's something.

Yep best change so far for our Dire avengers now the 2nd shuriken catapult on the exarch it's free wich mean we can take minimum squads for just 55 points.

So with points changes is it worth taking the shield on dire avenger squads since its only 5pts?

Significant changes in the FAQ for my army list.

Farseer
Warlock Conclave

3 x 5 Dire Avengers

2 x 3 Vypers
1 x 5 Warp Spiders

1 x 1 Lynx
1 x 6 Dark Reapers
1 x 3 War Walkers

1 x 3 Wave Serpents

Bring It Down
Old: 30 points available (15 max)
New:17 Points available (15 max)

Fire and Fade: Dark Reapers can embark into a Wave Serpent

Dire Avengers: my list gained 45 points.

While We Stand We Fight: No longer states highest pointed models, now states highest pointed UNITS. That makes my War Walker unit, Lynx, and Dark Reapers my 3 highest pointed units. Cagey play can net me more points here as well as mitigate While We Stand We Fight. I generally have not lost all my War Walkers in any game and Wave Serpents are rare to go down (protecting the Dark Reapers).

I drop a Singing Spear, giving me 50 points. Then add 1 Dark Reaper (35) and then add CTM (5) and Vectored Engines (10) to a Wave Serpent that will help protect my Dark Reapers. Army is back at 2000 points.

Some interesting changes with my current army. How about you all?

I just saved 50 points on my last list. It also went from losing 12 BiD points to 7 so yay! However due to these changes it'll need a total re-write.

My current list still gives up 21 bring it down points but my list is pretty much just vehicles so not a great surprise!
I'm going to have to have a good look at it though, I designed it with While we stand we fight in mind, which now doesn't really work.
I want to try and keep secondaries in my control but it may prove tricky.

 kingheff wrote:
My current list still gives up 21 bring it down points but my list is pretty much just vehicles so not a great surprise!
I'm going to have to have a good look at it though, I designed it with While we stand we fight in mind, which now doesn't really work.
I want to try and keep secondaries in my control but it may prove tricky.

I agree with trying to build around knowing all three secondary objectives.

I'm trying While We Stand We Fight, Deploy Scramblers and Engage on All Fronts this weekend. I'm very curious to see the FAQ impacts.

I'm just catching up on things 40k.

Looking at the FAQ, only changes im seeing is: guardians now 8pts/7pts for stormies, DA 11pts and rangers 13 pts.

Is there anything else that I'm missing ?

So with stormies to nearly 8th ed pts levels.

How about the AOK + fearless stormie blobs spam obsec the bejeezus of out objectives.

48 storm guardians with fusion imbedded in each plus AOK is 591pts.

AOK greatly beenfits from EC and can do actions while keeping stormies fearless.

The plan: Plot one on unit the board and the the other in DS. Cast protect and celestial shield for a 24 t3 1W fearless bodies 3++ fling them upfield to try and swarm objectives+ actions. rinse repeat.

All the while the remaining 1400 pts can be the usual suspects of Falcons, war walkers etc.

What say you?

@Argive:
I could see staggered stormie blobs with celestial shield support being ok for objective grabbing. However...

* I'd probably skip the fusion. Any squads that start on the table probably aren't going to get in range to make much use of them. The deepstriking squad won't be all that killy even with them. The extra points cost kind of counteracts the low cost per body that makes these blobs valuable as objective holders.

*I'd be tempted to pay the extra points for defenders with heavy weapon platforms. Between the platforms add a lot to the survivability of the blob and let the blob that starts on the table contribute at a distance. Plus, defender shooting is actually pretty okay, especially if you guide the blob and/or doom/jinx the target.

* I feel the Avatar is too expensive to be using for actions. Plus, there are some actions he can't do due to the monster and character keywords. If you're basically just taking him for the fearless bubble, you're probably better off just running Iyanden, eating the morale casualties, or maybe even using *gasp!* Will of Asuryan on a farseer for a fraction of the price.

So sadly, even when it comes to be a cheap fodder blob, storm guardians still kind of lose out to defenders. :( I wish they'd lower the squad size of stormies to 5 or even just to 7. Being able to fit a second squad in a wave serpent alongside a double flamer/fusion squad would instantly make them a stronger consideration.

On the note of the Avatar, has anyone had any luck with him this edition? He's fun with EC when you can get him into melee, but his relative slowness limits the number of units I want to use to screen him. Maybe a squad of war walkers could escort him across the table? Or maybe he's worth outflanking with Strategic Reserves if you're using the Headstrong trait?

I ran stormguardians for a lot of 8e. No offence but disembarking from a WS and advancing your fusions have a 22+1d6" threat range, so my experience tells me you're wrong there Wyldhunt.

My advice would be max blob of 24 for relic hunters and celestial shield, or squads of 8 with 2 fusions in transports for relatively cheap AT (with expert crafters, of course).

The idea is to have the sotrmies be the bodyguard for the AOK.

His fearless bublle is not craftworld keyword dependand. So he can be EC/Hunters of relics while your stormies are ulthwe so they can have a 3++/6+++ for extra staying power and have eldrad instead of a standard farseer.

So Im thinking something like this:

++ Spearhead Detachment -3CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [81 PL, -3CP, 1,505pts] ++

+ Configuration [-3CP] +

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Hunters of Ancient Relics

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

+ HQ [18 PL, 345pts] +

Autarch Skyrunner [6 PL, 110pts]: Laser Lance [5pts], Peerless Agility, Ride the Wind, The Path of Command, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. The Phoenix Gem: Remnant of Glory

Avatar of Khaine [12 PL, 235pts]: Daemon, Khaine Awakened, Molten Body, The Wailing Doom

+ Fast Attack [15 PL, 320pts] +

Shining Spears [15 PL, 320pts]: Aerobatic Grace, Ride the Wind
. 8x Shining Spear [280pts]: 8x Laser Lance, 8x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch [40pts]: Star Lance [5pts], Twin Shuriken Catapult
. . Exarch Power: Skilled Rider

+ Heavy Support [48 PL, 840pts] +

Falcon [8 PL, 135pts]: Aeldari Missile Launcher [20pts], Explodes (Hover Tank), Hover Tank, Pulse Laser, Transport, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Falcon [8 PL, 135pts]: Aeldari Missile Launcher [20pts], Explodes (Hover Tank), Hover Tank, Pulse Laser, Transport, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Falcon [8 PL, 135pts]: Aeldari Missile Launcher [20pts], Explodes (Hover Tank), Hover Tank, Pulse Laser, Transport, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Wraithseer [8 PL, 145pts]: 0. Smite, 4. Protect/Jinx, Eldritch Wraith Construct, Ghostspear, Psyker, Starcannon [15pts], Wraithshield

Wraithseer [8 PL, 145pts]: 0. Smite, 6. Empower/Enervate, Eldritch Wraith Construct, Ghostspear, Psyker, Starcannon [15pts], Wraithshield

Wraithseer [8 PL, 145pts]: 0. Smite, 4. Protect/Jinx, Eldritch Wraith Construct, Ghostspear, Psyker, Starcannon [15pts], Wraithshield

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [31 PL, 12CP, 657pts] ++

+ Configuration [12CP] +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) [12CP]

Craftworld Attribute: Ulthwe: Foresight of the Damned

Detachment Command Cost

+ HQ [11 PL, 205pts] +

Farseer Skyrunner [7 PL, 140pts]: 0. Smite, 2. Doom, 4. Executioner, Ghosthelm, Psyker (Farseer), Ride the Wind, Rune Armour, Runes of the Farseer, Shuriken Pistol, Singing Spear [5pts], Twin Shuriken Catapult

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 65pts]: 5. Focus Will, 5. Quicken/Restrain, 6: Seer of the Shifting Vector, Psyker, Ride the Wind, Rune Armour, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Warlord, Witchblade

+ Troops [20 PL, 452pts] +

Storm Guardians [10 PL, 226pts]
. 23x Storm Guardian - Aeldari Blade [207pts]: 23x Aeldari Blade, 23x Plasma Grenades, 23x Shuriken Pistol
. Storm Guardian - Special Weapon [19pts]: Fusion Gun [10pts], Plasma Grenades

Storm Guardians [10 PL, 226pts]
. 23x Storm Guardian - Aeldari Blade [207pts]: 23x Aeldari Blade, 23x Plasma Grenades, 23x Shuriken Pistol
. Storm Guardian - Special Weapon [19pts]: Fusion Gun [10pts], Plasma Grenades

++ Total: [112 PL, 9CP, 2,162pts] ++

Battlescribe is not updated so the pts are out. 48 storm guardians with a fusion a pop is 164pts cheaper under the new cost.

Is anyone savy enough with battlescribe to update the data? I'm not sure if everything is correct at this point or what else has changed.

I think you have made a very interesting list. It plays in all phases of the game and looks to have some staying power near objectives. I personally don't own that many Storm Guardians or Wraithseers (23 and 1 respectively), but am very intrigued how a list like this plays. It is light on obsec, but appears to be able to remove other units from an objective. I like it.

48 fearless ob sec bodies doesnt strike me as light. Its far more then a couple of DA squads.

I added Wraithseers coz cool and Im always looking for ways to play mine.. But you could sub them out for wraith lords or any combination of war walkers, defence platforms I think. The falcons too. Could even sub the autarch out for a farseer for more powers etc.

The heavy support is all the dakka.
I think this has potential. Sadly it doesn't look I will be able to test it out at all by the time we get a new dex!

Crud, did D-cannon support weapons go up to 85 points? Vibro cannons at 45 points seems like the go-to now.

 Oaka wrote:
Crud, did D-cannon support weapons go up to 85 points? Vibro cannons at 45 points seems like the go-to now.

Outside of how the points are added up, Support Weapons saw no change in point cost

sadly D canon is still 35 pts..

Munitorum field manual says 45 points + 25 for d-cannon, but I was building a list in the app where it is 45 points + 40 for the d-cannon. Hopefully they're staying at 70.

yeah 45, my bad. It would still be too expnive if it was 35 lol. D3 24" shots? for 35 pts nah....

It depends on how it fits in your army, I guess. My Necron opponent is spending 140 points on a Doomstalker for a D6 shot weapon, and he can whiff on that gloriously. For the same cost, I'm sure he'd jump at the consistency of 2D3 shots where you can reroll two hits and two wounds. The d-cannon platforms have been stars for me as allies to a Coven army, since everything is relatively tough and in short range with the opponent.