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Im really keen to run specters. But I think irylith is a bit of a hidden gem. 3x BS 2 St8 -3 3D shots for 140pts is not bad.

I hope to run specters and irylith once Im allowed to play some games.

 Crafter91 wrote:
Does anybody play / rate shadow spectres?

Allow me to quote a post of mine from the previous page:

 Saber wrote:

 Argive wrote:
What are people's thoughts on Shadow specters?

I've played a few games with them and I've been pleasantly surprised. While I didn't think their 9E rules were bad, I did think their 8E rules were better. However, experience has shown that they're extremely good at killing any sort of infantry, so long as you can keep them alive. (I usually play with Expert Crafters and Masters of Concealment.)

With their two modes of fire Shadow Spectres can kill any sort of infantry. The dispersed shot tends to be overkill against its optimal targets (guardsmen and the like), so you often only need to fire a few blasts into light infantry to kill them off. The focussed shot is optimal for killing Marines. Pretty obvious stuff.

Since you can deploy the Spectres out of reserves and they had decent range you can usually pick and choose your targets. However, Spectres die quickly, even with a -1 to hit and 2+ save in cover. Try to block off LOS with terrain, and, ideally, place them so they can kill anything that can shoot back. The flank is usually the best place for them, as the edge of the board naturally limits attackers. The Spectres can knock off the enemy's flanking troops, and then work their way towards the center.

I find Doom to be an excellent power for Spectres, as it allows them to gun down tanks and monsters, or completely obliterate a horde of light infantry. Fortune can be good for some extra survivability, but it will only keep them alive against fairly feeble small arms fire. Fire and Fade is your best friend. They are good targets for Forwarned.

The Exarch does nothing, and neither does Shadow of Death rule.

Can you use matchless agility on a unit that's disembarking from a transport. seems ambiguous to me.

Yes. The only restriction after disembarking is that they never count as stationary. Matchless Agility would fall under "Advance" as the type of move you would be permitted to do in the movement phase.

Has anyone run triple Wraithknights? After 30+ games I can nearly max out secondary objectives in a game, but struggle with primary. I nearly always play catch up on the primary mission and have been looking for ways I've not tried as of yet; triple Wraithknights. I've taken the elements that get my max secondary objectives and dumped my shooting elements for more combat/resilience to head to fight for the primary objectives.

Sword and board and rush them up ?

 Argive wrote:
Sword and board and rush them up ?

Two sword and board and one Skathach who has an inbuilt deep strike ability. I think this list can still achieve near max points for Engage on all Fronts and Deploy Scramblers. I need to review the third secondary as I normally take While We Stand We Fight, which would not be a good choice for this kind of list as I plan for the Wraithknights to end up destroyed. Of note, Wraithknights won't degrade until they are at 6 wounds remaining; unsure if that is better than custom traits Savage Blades and Wrath of Dead (reroll 1's to hit and 1's to wound).

Note: Spiritseer should have Protect/Jinx, not Enhance/Drain.


++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [37 PL, 12CP, 775pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Craftworld Attribute: Iyanden: Stoic Endurance

Detachment Command Cost

Gametype: Matched

+ HQ +

Farseer [6 PL, 115pts]: 0. Smite, 3. Fortune, 4. Executioner, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

Spiritseer [3 PL, 60pts]: 0. Smite, 3. Enhance/Drain, 6: Seer of the Shifting Vector, Shuriken Pistol, Warlord
. Psytronome of Iyanden

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Battle Fortune

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Battle Fortune

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Battle Fortune

Dire Avengers [5 PL, 115pts]
. 9x Dire Avenger: 9x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 9x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Shimmershield & Power Glaive
. . Exarch Power: Battle Fortune

+ Fast Attack +

Swooping Hawks [4 PL, 80pts]
. 4x Swooping Hawk: 4x Lasblaster
. Swooping Hawk Exarch: Lasblaster
. . Exarch Power: Evade

Swooping Hawks [4 PL, 80pts]
. 4x Swooping Hawk: 4x Lasblaster
. Swooping Hawk Exarch: Lasblaster
. . Exarch Power: Evade

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 160pts]: Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Cannon, Twin Shuriken Catapult

++ Super-Heavy Detachment -6CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [64 PL, -6CP, 1,225pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Craftworld Attribute: Iyanden: Stoic Endurance

Detachment Command Cost [-6CP]

+ Lord of War +

Skathach Wraithknight [22 PL, 455pts]: 2x Inferno Lance

Wraithknight [21 PL, 385pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Starcannon, Titanic Ghostglaive and Scattershield

Wraithknight [21 PL, 385pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Starcannon, Titanic Ghostglaive and Scattershield

++ Total: [101 PL, 6CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

 Sarigar wrote:


Skathach Wraithknight [22 PL, 455pts]: 2x Inferno Lance

Wraithknight [21 PL, 385pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Starcannon, Titanic Ghostglaive and Scattershield

Wraithknight [21 PL, 385pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Starcannon, Titanic Ghostglaive and Scattershield

++ Total: [101 PL, 6CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

Those Wraithknights would make up more than half of your overall points value!... I would drop down to one wraithknight and use the extra 600+ points for 4-6 additional units - consider warwalkers / a flyer perhaps if you're going for firepower? The main thing done by Wraithknights is carry big targets on their heads which (done correctly) can act as a great distraction while your smaller units which still pack a punch flood the field - no use if you have no units to do that.

Would certainly be interested to see this list in action but once those knights are down, you're high and dry with what you have left. It's a very 'all or nothing' list with little to no back up plan.

Just one man's opinion though!

I think the whole point of the list is to have triple Knights if you scroll up a couple of comments lol

At least you get Craftworld trait benefits with 3. I think it might be a mistake taking Iyanden, maybe a shooty loadout for 2 and Masterful Shots and masters of concealment. Hunters of ancient relics if you want to go down the sword and board route

I remember someone way backwhen our codex dropped ran the maths and it turned out ulthwe 6+ fnp was better than iyanden effectively giving you 4 extra wounds per knight on average, which equals or surpasses that trait on most damage steps. Then again alaitoc was the goat back then and you don't have to roll for iyanden so it's no subject to lady luck.

I got to play three Wraithknights lasdt night. Overall, I lost the game against White Scars. Mission 23 is such a difficult mission for me. Combined with my opponent going second and taking Oath of the Moment and Domination, I already knew this was going to be an uphill battle. Add in Titan Hunter for a near maxed out secondary objective selection. Ultimately, I lost, but it was not the massive mismatch army vs army.

I took Engage on all Fronts and Deploy Scramblers as usual, but chose Assassinate for my third. I got 10 points for Engage on all Fronts and 10 points for Deploy Scramblers, but only 6 for Assassinate. This is pretty key to understand when playing 9th edition.

The primary was tied on rounds 2 and 3, but I screwed up target selection the top of turn 4 which allowed my opponent to get 15 points on the bottom of turn 4, then having the bottom of turn 5, he picked up an easy 15 points.

By the end, I still had a Skathach, 5 Hawks, Spiritseer, and Wave Serpent on the board; more than anticipated. I think the concept has some potential to provide a challenging game, but acknowledge the Codex is not geared for 9th edition and it will be difficult to match secondary objectives. Titan Hunter gives up way too many points and is still an auto take. For Marines, that is now two auto take secondaries (Oath is the second) that will yield 10-15 points each which are extremely easy to score. For myself, this will be the largest hurdle to overcome. The last FAQ fixed Bring It Down and While We Stand We Fight which are two secondaries I always chose netting me high secondaries; I use several vehicles instead of Wraithknights in those games.

Iyanden Craftworld is a bit of a trap, which is what I used. I will try Ulthwe for my next game. I've tweaked the list a bit to the following:

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [42 PL, 12CP, 855pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Craftworld Attribute: Ulthwe: Foresight of the Damned

Detachment Command Cost

Gametype: Matched

+ HQ +

Eldrad Ulthran [8 PL, 155pts]: 0. Smite, 2. Doom, 3. Fortune, 4. Executioner, Ulthwe: Fate Reader, Warlord

Warlock [3 PL, 50pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, 5. Focus Will, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Stand Firm

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Stand Firm

Dire Avengers [5 PL, 115pts]
. 9x Dire Avenger: 9x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 9x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Shimmershield & Power Glaive
. . Exarch Power: Avenging Strikes

Guardian Defenders [8 PL, 160pts]
. 20x Guardian Defender: 20x Plasma Grenades, 20x Shuriken Catapult

Storm Guardians [6 PL, 105pts]
. 15x Storm Guardian - Aeldari Blade: 15x Aeldari Blade, 15x Plasma Grenades, 15x Shuriken Pistol

+ Fast Attack +

Swooping Hawks [4 PL, 80pts]
. 4x Swooping Hawk: 4x Lasblaster
. Swooping Hawk Exarch: Lasblaster
. . Exarch Power: Evade

Swooping Hawks [4 PL, 80pts]
. 4x Swooping Hawk: 4x Lasblaster
. Swooping Hawk Exarch: Lasblaster
. . Exarch Power: Evade

++ Super-Heavy Detachment -6CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [63 PL, -6CP, 1,140pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Craftworld Attribute: Ulthwe: Foresight of the Damned

Detachment Command Cost [-6CP]

+ Lord of War +

Wraithknight [21 PL, 375pts]: Starcannon, Titanic Ghostglaive and Scattershield

Wraithknight [21 PL, 375pts]: Starcannon, Titanic Ghostglaive and Scattershield

Wraithknight [21 PL, 390pts]: Starcannon, Starcannon, Titanic Ghostglaive and Scattershield

++ Total: [105 PL, 6CP, 1,995pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

I wonder if making the Knights alaitoc might be a useful buff to their survivability? I know they're built for melee but if you can help reduce the danger from getting blasted if you lose first turn plus it may tempt your opponent to bring out their shooting units to try and get within the 12" range.

 kingheff wrote:
I wonder if making the Knights alaitoc might be a useful buff to their survivability? I know they're built for melee but if you can help reduce the danger from getting blasted if you lose first turn plus it may tempt your opponent to bring out their shooting units to try and get within the 12" range.

Due to how prolific reroll to hits are now and cap to hit modifiers is not considered as great anymore.

Masters of concealment for 2+ save is probably good, fateful divergence for reroll saves (a guy did this in a tournament in 8th I believe) and fortune would be good if not going Ulthwe.

The huge range of debuffs Runes of battle gives could be considered to help any sword and board Wraithknights

Strong shooting armies certainly show up at the events I attend, but they are surprisingly few in number.

One item I really need to learn is how to properly screen out the Wraithknights. As an example, White Scars charging while in assault doctrine provides +1 damage to weapons. Bladeguard and Terminators can totally wreck a Wraithknight if not careful.

I'm certainly going to get in more games to better understand the strengths and weaknesses. Until a new Codex drops, it's been fun so trying out so many builds. This is my 4th different build so far and, initially, it was not as bad as it looked on paper.

Would you consider playing units of 12 harlequin on foot (with minimal upgrades, just as bodies) to score objectives on your opponents side and screen the wraith knights?

I certainly would not rule them out. I'd been debating what could be a better second detachment to accompany the Wraithknights; Harlequins certainly are an option. I'll give it a review and also compare to what I actually own as I have much less painted Harlequins.

Was chatting via discord server and someone pushed out the idea of mortal wound spam. Mortal Wounds will further become popular in my opinion as every new Codex has some capability to mitigate mortal wounds.

With that in mind, I began looking at some 8th edition ideas and how it would translate into 9th. In my opinion, it may have potential. LD buffs and debuffs combined with importrant charactrer auras layered on top of gaining secondary points make Mind War look quite interesting.

The idea is to snipe characters, especially those who want to get to the center of the board or those who want to get into assault. Mind War expressly is designed for this. However, on its own, it is pretty mediocre. However, let's add in some stuff that is usable in game while acting as a combat multiplier for Mind War.

LEADERSHIP BUFFS
Swooping Hawks +1
Embolden +2
Inspiring Leader Warlord Trait +1 (most Craftworld Warlord traits are mediocre anyways)

LEADERSHIP DEBUFF
Horrify -1
Hemlock -2
Shadow Spectre -1
Shadow Spectre Phoenix Lord -1 (And will stack with the Shadow Spectres)


This does not factor Harlequin or Drukhari as this is a Craftworld tactics page. (Harlequins have access to an easy -3 LD, so food for thought).


With this in mind, what is relatively easy to pull off from the above? Those that require the Craftworld player to simply place their own models close together.
-Swooping Hawks
-Inspiring Leader

Which can be a bit more tricky?
-Embolden, but I don't imagine many opponents willing to shut that power down. Seer Council can make for an easier cast as well.
-Hemlock getting within 12". Personally, I don't think It will be difficult based upon the games I've played, but the possibility exists.
-Horrify could be challenging. I'd likely have the Hemlock cast it. It's WC7, no bonuses, but is not overly game breaking if it fails.
-Shadow Spectres. Great movement and can Advance. Takes some setting up, but you just need one model to get within 6".
-Shadow Spectre Phoenix Lord. I think this is the one model you auto advance 6" to get in range. He has the fly keyword and solid shooting. This and the Hemlock could create a failed LD aura to degrade those other hard units near the characters.

What I think is likely
Farseer LD9 +1(Hawks), +1 (Inspiring Leader), +2 (Embolden with a Focus Will or Seer Council assist) LD 13

Opponent LD9/10, -2 (Hemlock), -1 (Shadow Spectre Phoenix Lord) LD 6 or 7.

I will assume Horrify failed and the Shadow Spectre unit could not get in requisite range. That is a difference of 7 or 6; pretty good potential for mortal wound sniping of characters.

Most optimal: Farseer LD13.
Opponent LD 4 or 5

Even the worst roll result (you roll a 1, opponent rolls a 6, you still score 4 or 3 mortal wounds; if reversed, you score 14 or 13 mortal wounds).

Below is an all comer list showing how it could all fit into an army while retaini g a lot of what still works in the Codex. The HQ section is something I've used for over 20 games now and has become my defacto standard which is why I had to utilize a Patrol detachment to get the Shadow Spectre Phoenix Lord . I did not place the Shadow Spectres in the list, but if I wanted, I would drop 2 War Walkers.

This list would most likely play Engage on all Fronts, Deploy Scramblers, and the one that nets 3 points for every character destroyed.

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [88 PL, 12CP, 1,675pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Masterful Shots

Detachment Command Cost

Gametype

+ HQ +

Farseer [6 PL, 115pts]: 0. Smite, 3. Fortune, 6. Mind War, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade
. The Phoenix Gem

Warlock [3 PL, 50pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, 5. Focus Will, Inspiring Leader, Shuriken Pistol, Warlord, Witchblade

Warlock Conclave [4 PL, 80pts]: 0. Smite, 2. Embolden/Horrify, 4. Protect/Jinx
. Warlock: Witchblade
. Warlock: Witchblade

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Shredding Fire

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Shredding Fire

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Shredding Fire

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Shredding Fire

+ Fast Attack +

Swooping Hawks [4 PL, 80pts]
. 4x Swooping Hawk: 4x Lasblaster
. Swooping Hawk Exarch: Lasblaster
. . Exarch Power: Herald of Victory

+ Heavy Support +

Dark Reapers [18 PL, 280pts]
. 7x Dark Reaper: 7x Reaper Launcher
. Dark Reaper Exarch: Reaper Launcher
. . Exarch Power: Rapid Shot

Lynx [12 PL, 230pts]: Shuriken Cannon, Spirit Stones

War Walkers [12 PL, 210pts]
. War Walker: Starcannon, Starcannon
. War Walker: Starcannon, Starcannon
. War Walker: Starcannon, Starcannon

+ Flyer +

Hemlock Wraithfighter [12 PL, 240pts]: 0. Smite, 2. Embolden/Horrify

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 170pts]: Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Twin Starcannon

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [16 PL, -2CP, 324pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Craftworld Attribute: Ulthwe: Foresight of the Damned

Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]

+ HQ +

Irillyth [7 PL, 140pts]

+ Troops +

Guardian Defenders [9 PL, 184pts]
. 19x Guardian Defender: 19x Plasma Grenades, 19x Shuriken Catapult
. Guardian Heavy Weapons Platform: Bright Lance

++ Total: [104 PL, 10CP, 1,999pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)


As an aside, with so many LD debuffs in an area, just killing a couple models from various units can trigger failed morale in a significant manner.

I think its a neat idea but I jus dont see it working in practice. Getting all the pieces in place to pin that character is even harder than having multiple sniper units trying to get a bead on the same dude. I was trying conventional sniping back in 8th as well as mind war but it just never really came together in a meaningful way.

Also, whats the reasoning on taking guardians with platform over storm guardians? Normally the whole idea of platform is to soak up damage and tank small arms fire to protect the guardians bodies for as long as possible. so why bother putting an expensive heavy weapon on the platform if its likely the first thing to die int he squad? A squad of 20 storm guardians would be much cheaper if all they are meant to do is screen and die with protect + celestial shield to eat as much fire power as possible while holding objectives.


On another note. How much do you guys think dark reapers are overcosted now ?

It looks like I can get 7 spectres for the cost of 5 reapers.. I know they are not the same thing as spectres have a lesser Str but better AP. With doom usually going on the key target the smaller str isint that much of an issue but their duality with being able to mow down infantry as well and great mobility seems like the better unit. I suppose the upside of reapers is their ability to embark on transports with fire and fade (however I expect that to be FAQ'd out)

Here is my latest creation:

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [21 PL, 12CP, 360pts] ++

+ Configuration [12CP] +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) [12CP]

Craftworld Attribute: Ulthwe: Foresight of the Damned

Detachment Command Cost

+ HQ [12 PL, 220pts] +

Eldrad Ulthran [8 PL, 155pts]: 0. Smite, 2. Doom, 3. Fortune, 4. Executioner, Armour of Last Runes, Ghosthelm, Runes of the Farseer, Shuriken Pistol, Spiritlink, Staff of Ulthamar, Witchblade

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 65pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, 5. Focus Will, 6: Seer of the Shifting Vector, Psyker, Ride the Wind, Rune Armour, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Warlord, Witchblade

+ Troops [9 PL, 140pts] +

Storm Guardians [9 PL, 140pts]
. 20x Storm Guardian - Aeldari Blade [140pts]: 20x Aeldari Blade, 20x Plasma Grenades, 20x Shuriken Pistol

++ Spearhead Detachment -3CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [90 PL, -3CP, 1,638pts] ++

+ Configuration [-3CP] +

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Hunters of Ancient Relics

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

+ HQ [13 PL, 250pts] +

Autarch Skyrunner [6 PL, 110pts]: Laser Lance [5pts], Peerless Agility, Ride the Wind, The Path of Command, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. The Phoenix Gem: Remnant of Glory

Irillyth [7 PL, 140pts]: Reaper of Souls (Aura), Shade of Twilight, Shadow of Death (Aura), Shadow Spectres Phoenix Lord, Spear of Starlight, Spectre Holo-field

+ Elites [30 PL, 528pts] +

Shadow Spectres [10 PL, 208pts]: Shade of Twilight, Shadow of Death (Aura), Spectre Holo-field
. 7x Shadow Spectre [182pts]: 7x Plasma Grenades, 7x Prism Rifle
. Shadow Spectre Exarch [26pts]: Plasma Grenades, Prism Rifle

Wraithblades [20 PL, 320pts]: Fires of Wrath, Ghostswords, 8x Wraithblade [320pts]

+ Fast Attack [15 PL, 245pts] +

Shining Spears [15 PL, 245pts]: Aerobatic Grace, Ride the Wind
. 6x Shining Spear [210pts]: 6x Laser Lance, 6x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch [35pts]: Laser Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. . Exarch Power: Skilled Rider

+ Heavy Support [32 PL, 615pts] +

Falcon [8 PL, 145pts]: Aeldari Missile Launcher [20pts], Explodes (Hover Tank), Hover Tank, Pulse Laser, Spirit Stones [10pts], Transport, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Wraithseer [8 PL, 170pts]: 2. Witch Strike, 5. Quicken/Restrain, D-cannon [40pts], Eldritch Wraith Construct, Ghostspear, Psyker, Wraithshield

Wraithseer [8 PL, 150pts]: 0. Smite, 4. Protect/Jinx, Bright Lance [20pts], Eldritch Wraith Construct, Ghostspear, Psyker, Wraithshield

Wraithseer [8 PL, 150pts]: 0. Smite, 4. Protect/Jinx, Bright Lance [20pts], Eldritch Wraith Construct, Ghostspear, Psyker, Wraithshield

++ Total: [111 PL, 9CP, 1,998pts] ++

EDIT: the wraiths should be axes and shields

Thanks for the feedback.

I get to try it out tonight and will get to see how easy or difficult it can be to get things in the right position. The Hemlock is costing me an assault capability. The Brightlance and Hemlock cost as much as two Wraithseers. If Mind War is too difficult, it can be a relatively easy fix. Nearly every army I face has powerful close combat characters which tend to push aggressively toward midboard and further which is a big reason I think Mind War will have great utility.

I've played about 15 games post FAQ with the Reapers and they perform exceptionally well. If they FAQ it later, then I'll look at tweaking the list. These models were already painted sitting in foam waiting for an excuse to try them again. The AP2, choice of D2 or D3, and ignore cover save is very significant in nearly every game I play. But, Fire and Fade gives them longevity and they generally ladt the entire game, which is a lot more shooting than prior to FAQ.The Spectres have a solid option and their Focus Fire would be a great option in my meta. I've only recently began looking at them, but do admit I'll likely not use them to replace Dark Reapers.

You make a valid point regarding the Guardians. I'm a bit on the fence using Guardians vs Storm Guardians. For many games, they arrive via Webway, but there are some where I need to screen on turn 1. The Brightlance is overly expensive and the points can be utilized elsewhere. The Guardians do tend to go away by turn 3.

Overall, I like the list presented minus the lack of objective secured. Over the months, I've had to increase how many I generally take. I used to take a minimum amount, but now I use 5-6 regularly for added flexibility to contest primary objectives.

I tweaked the list slightly and will post thoughts post game.


++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [92 PL, 12CP, 1,745pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Masterful Shots

Detachment Command Cost

Gametype

+ HQ +

Farseer [6 PL, 115pts]: 0. Smite, 2. Doom, 6. Mind War, Ghosthelm, Psyker (Farseer), Rune Armour, Runes of the Farseer, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade
. Faolchu's Wing: Remnant of Glory

Warlock [3 PL, 50pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, 5. Focus Will, Inspiring Leader, Psyker, Rune Armour, Shuriken Pistol, Warlord, Witchblade

Warlock Conclave [4 PL, 80pts]: 0. Smite, 4. Protect/Jinx, 5. Quicken/Restrain, Psyker (Conclave)
. Warlock: Rune Armour, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade
. Warlock: Rune Armour, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]: Defence Tactics
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Plasma Grenades, Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Shredding Fire

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]: Defence Tactics
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Plasma Grenades, Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Shredding Fire

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]: Defence Tactics
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Plasma Grenades, Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Shredding Fire

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]: Defence Tactics
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Plasma Grenades, Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Shredding Fire

+ Fast Attack +

Swooping Hawks [4 PL, 80pts]: Children of Baharroth, Skyleap, Swooping Hawk Grenade Pack
. 4x Swooping Hawk: 4x Lasblaster
. Swooping Hawk Exarch: Lasblaster
. . Exarch Power: Herald of Victory

Swooping Hawks [4 PL, 80pts]: Children of Baharroth, Skyleap, Swooping Hawk Grenade Pack
. 4x Swooping Hawk: 4x Lasblaster
. Swooping Hawk Exarch: Lasblaster
. . Exarch Power: Evade

+ Heavy Support +

Dark Reapers [18 PL, 280pts]: Inescapable Accuracy
. 7x Dark Reaper: 7x Reaper Launcher
. Dark Reaper Exarch: Reaper Launcher
. . Exarch Power: Rapid Shot

Lynx [12 PL, 230pts]: Distortion Field, Explodes (Hover Tank), Hover Tank, Lynx Pulsar, Shuriken Cannon, Speed of Vaul, Spirit Stones

War Walkers [12 PL, 210pts]
. War Walker: Explodes, Power Field, Scout Vehicle, Starcannon, Starcannon
. War Walker: Explodes, Power Field, Scout Vehicle, Starcannon, Starcannon
. War Walker: Explodes, Power Field, Scout Vehicle, Starcannon, Starcannon

+ Flyer +

Hemlock Wraithfighter [12 PL, 240pts]: 0. Smite, 2. Embolden/Horrify, Airborne, Crash and Burn, Hard to Hit, 2x Heavy D-scythe, Mindshock Pod, Psyker (Hemlock), Spirit Stones, Wings of Khaine

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 160pts]: Explodes (Hover Tank), Hover Tank, Serpent Shield, Spirit Stones, Transport, Twin Scatter Laser, Twin Shuriken Catapult

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [13 PL, -2CP, 252pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Craftworld Attribute: Ulthwe: Foresight of the Damned

Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]

+ HQ +

Irillyth [7 PL, 140pts]: Reaper of Souls (Aura), Shade of Twilight, Shadow of Death (Aura), Shadow Spectres Phoenix Lord, Spear of Starlight, Spectre Holo-field

+ Troops +

Storm Guardians [6 PL, 112pts]
. 16x Storm Guardian - Aeldari Blade: 16x Aeldari Blade, 16x Plasma Grenades, 16x Shuriken Pistol

++ Total: [105 PL, 10CP, 1,997pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)

 Argive wrote:
I think its a neat idea but I jus dont see it working in practice. Getting all the pieces in place to pin that character is even harder than having multiple sniper units trying to get a bead on the same dude. I was trying conventional sniping back in 8th as well as mind war but it just never really came together in a meaningful way.

Also, whats the reasoning on taking guardians with platform over storm guardians? Normally the whole idea of platform is to soak up damage and tank small arms fire to protect the guardians bodies for as long as possible. so why bother putting an expensive heavy weapon on the platform if its likely the first thing to die int he squad? A squad of 20 storm guardians would be much cheaper if all they are meant to do is screen and die with protect + celestial shield to eat as much fire power as possible while holding objectives.


On another note. How much do you guys think dark reapers are overcosted now ?

It looks like I can get 7 spectres for the cost of 5 reapers.. I know they are not the same thing as spectres have a lesser Str but better AP. With doom usually going on the key target the smaller str isint that much of an issue but their duality with being able to mow down infantry as well and great mobility seems like the better unit. I suppose the upside of reapers is their ability to embark on transports with fire and fade (however I expect that to be FAQ'd out)

Here is my latest creation:

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [21 PL, 12CP, 360pts] ++

+ Configuration [12CP] +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points) [12CP]

Craftworld Attribute: Ulthwe: Foresight of the Damned

Detachment Command Cost

+ HQ [12 PL, 220pts] +

Eldrad Ulthran [8 PL, 155pts]: 0. Smite, 2. Doom, 3. Fortune, 4. Executioner, Armour of Last Runes, Ghosthelm, Runes of the Farseer, Shuriken Pistol, Spiritlink, Staff of Ulthamar, Witchblade

Warlock Skyrunner [4 PL, 65pts]: 4. Protect/Jinx, 5. Focus Will, 6: Seer of the Shifting Vector, Psyker, Ride the Wind, Rune Armour, Shuriken Pistol, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Warlord, Witchblade

+ Troops [9 PL, 140pts] +

Storm Guardians [9 PL, 140pts]
. 20x Storm Guardian - Aeldari Blade [140pts]: 20x Aeldari Blade, 20x Plasma Grenades, 20x Shuriken Pistol

++ Spearhead Detachment -3CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [90 PL, -3CP, 1,638pts] ++

+ Configuration [-3CP] +

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Hunters of Ancient Relics

Detachment Command Cost [-3CP]

+ HQ [13 PL, 250pts] +

Autarch Skyrunner [6 PL, 110pts]: Laser Lance [5pts], Peerless Agility, Ride the Wind, The Path of Command, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. The Phoenix Gem: Remnant of Glory

Irillyth [7 PL, 140pts]: Reaper of Souls (Aura), Shade of Twilight, Shadow of Death (Aura), Shadow Spectres Phoenix Lord, Spear of Starlight, Spectre Holo-field

+ Elites [30 PL, 528pts] +

Shadow Spectres [10 PL, 208pts]: Shade of Twilight, Shadow of Death (Aura), Spectre Holo-field
. 7x Shadow Spectre [182pts]: 7x Plasma Grenades, 7x Prism Rifle
. Shadow Spectre Exarch [26pts]: Plasma Grenades, Prism Rifle

Wraithblades [20 PL, 320pts]: Fires of Wrath, Ghostswords, 8x Wraithblade [320pts]

+ Fast Attack [15 PL, 245pts] +

Shining Spears [15 PL, 245pts]: Aerobatic Grace, Ride the Wind
. 6x Shining Spear [210pts]: 6x Laser Lance, 6x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch [35pts]: Laser Lance, Twin Shuriken Catapult
. . Exarch Power: Skilled Rider

+ Heavy Support [32 PL, 615pts] +

Falcon [8 PL, 145pts]: Aeldari Missile Launcher [20pts], Explodes (Hover Tank), Hover Tank, Pulse Laser, Spirit Stones [10pts], Transport, Twin Shuriken Catapult

Wraithseer [8 PL, 170pts]: 2. Witch Strike, 5. Quicken/Restrain, D-cannon [40pts], Eldritch Wraith Construct, Ghostspear, Psyker, Wraithshield

Wraithseer [8 PL, 150pts]: 0. Smite, 4. Protect/Jinx, Bright Lance [20pts], Eldritch Wraith Construct, Ghostspear, Psyker, Wraithshield

Wraithseer [8 PL, 150pts]: 0. Smite, 4. Protect/Jinx, Bright Lance [20pts], Eldritch Wraith Construct, Ghostspear, Psyker, Wraithshield

++ Total: [111 PL, 9CP, 1,998pts] ++

EDIT: the wraiths should be axes and shields

In short, your statement was right on the mark. Something on paper is much different when trying to apply on the tabletop. I played against an Adeptus Custodes list which was ironically geared to defend against psychic abilities via an Assassin, 4+ deny the witch stratagem, and a Shild Captain with a deny the witch ability. Turn 1 actually had me failing nearly all psychic powers on its own. Turn 2+ was a combination of failing, denied, or being within the 18" bubble of the Assassin and ultimately failing due to the -2 to cast. Add in that the Assassin could never be targeted by psychic powers further hindered the entire psychic phase. Then, consider scoring secondary objectives while trying to ensure to avoid many threat zones as Custodes shooting and assault eliminates units quickly.

Ultimately, I got 10 points for Deploy Scramblers, 12 points for Engage on all Fronts, and 15 for While We Stand We Fight. However, I only got 30 on Primary which resulted in a loss 76-83. The Hemlock, being one of the While We Stand We Fight models, had to be used to avoid units which could easily destroy it, while also assisting in Engage on all Fronts, one of the few secondaries where an Aircraft can contribute. My Hawks needed to be utilized more for Deploy Scramblers than the leadership buff. As such they performed that action in my deployment zone and the enemy deployment zone. Another non contributer towards Mind War.

On the plus side, a 5++ actually helped on my Hawks. Mobility against Custodes was key and the game came down to the last few dice rolls on the bottom of turn 5 to determine the game. However, Mind War could not get properly set up against this army. Going forward, I think I'll only look at Mind War as an option if I am taking two Farseers. One Farseer, even Eldrad, had other abilities desperately in need and I felt hindered with the absence of Guide (And Expert Crafters).

Final note, I altered my list slightly and played a pure Ulthwe list. It made me appreciate just how good the custom Craftworld traits really are and will be firmly using them in the future. I keep wanting to venture out trying new stuff, but a lot of it just lowers the capability of the army in 9th edition.

My next venture will be less change to the core of the army, but enough to add in 5 Wraithguard with D Scythes. It's another unit I've not used in a few years and want to put them back on the table.

I'm a big fan of that 5++ on the hawks but I normally used them for scramblers. Before scramblers, I liked their screening potential with the malus to charge.

I really like that you're getting the opportunity to go out and play test lists and the like (and somewhat jealous) given the pandemic. I'm dying to get playing in person again.

I had hopes I could build toward a solid ability to snipe characters, but it did turn out a bit too much to build towards and play the mission. The 5++ on the Hawks were for when I had little choice but to expose them for Deploy Scramblers. I spent a CP to keep the +1 LD ability and pick up the 5++. Since the Mind War combo did not work out very well, it is a CP saved for future games.

I've got a fairly large collection of Craftworld and want to play some of the stuff sitting in foam. Unfortunately, it keeps looking like a lot will stay in foam until we get a new Codex. On the plus, I get to run Craftworld vehicles as I really like the aesthetic.

Would taking asurmen and a bunch of scorpions, fire dragons and banshees with an odd protect be a meme list or could it work?

I was thinking about running an aspect centric force but that 6" bubble of invuln is just so tiny and protect would only boost one of them as well as no longer beeing able to stack conceal/ LFR.

Asurmen and or Irilith with specters interests me. Used to run maugun ra but irilyth just seems so much better with his invuln and dakka.

I've run Asurmen before, but not enough to have solid advice. I was not impressed with the aura as it is small as you mentioned. Aspect Warriors didn't quite have the durability though I never ran Shadow Spectres with it. An invul, -1 to hit, and Fortune could make for an interesting mobile shooting platform.

I'm working on Irrilyth now after reviewing the FW units again recently. I've seen on a discord and FB page Shadow Spectres seem to be gaining popularity in usage.

Going in close range to fight for objectives is an area I've been struggling with. With your idea, maybe Asurmen, Scorpions and a Wraithseers or two? What gets through Deathwing, Bladeguard, or Blightlord Terminators?

 Sarigar wrote:
I've run Asurmen before, but not enough to have solid advice. I was not impressed with the aura as it is small as you mentioned. Aspect Warriors didn't quite have the durability though I never ran Shadow Spectres with it. An invul, -1 to hit, and Fortune could make for an interesting mobile shooting platform.

Yeah I loved my specters in 8th. But whenever I consider doing protect + fortune+ conceal / LFR. I always come up with the same conclusion: shining spears(Wraithguard/ Wraithblades in a pinch if one doesnt have acess to spear models) or are just much darn better targets for those buffs. Every time.. :(

 Sarigar wrote:

I'm working on Irrilyth now after reviewing the FW units again recently. I've seen on a discord and FB page Shadow Spectres seem to be gaining popularity in usage.

Going in close range to fight for objectives is an area I've been struggling with. With your idea, maybe Asurmen, Scorpions and a Wraithseers or two? What gets through Deathwing, Bladeguard, or Blightlord Terminators?

I think you just have to shoot them with a bucket load of shuriken... and MW.. A unit of guardians or a buffed up unit of shining spears would just mince them with a Doom. Thrown in a jinx and its really going to be nasty. And I say this because those shuriken can just shoot everything else too with a doom.

With CC I think wraithblades out of the webway/slow boating quickening could do the work as the next best thing.

Wraithseers/wraithlords/Autarchs have the same problem of capping out at 4 attacks and the big wraiths can just be shot before ever making it to combat. With taking hunters of relics you can mitigate that when fighting for objetcives. I'm interested in trying out the wraithseers with ghostwalks/witch strikes instead of a smite. 5+D3 damage weapons would kill anything but at the same time I feel like tis a bit overkill unless you are facing mortarion.

I think spears are just so much better because they can shoot and then finish off on the charge and are super mobile. But the lack of invuln in combat means if they wiff they wiff big as usually there will be nothing left of them if they cant kill whatever they charged. However. Potentially could run them with the 6++ trait. with a protect (which you will give them anyway) they would have a 5++ in combat. Would mean having a dedicated detachment for that though as you are likely going to be be wanting that trait only on them.

Asurmen or AOK seem like they could do the work but you could just take an entire unit of spears or< insert shooty unit >; instead.

The lack of invulnerable save is has been a big let down for me regarding Shining Spears. In my games, they are great until the inevitable counter assault occurs and they crumble. But, I also have not used Asurmen in conjunction. I don't use Spears to assault on turn 1, so maybe that is an answer to have something with enough durability to contest objectives? Great close range shooting, solid assault, and with Asumen, in invulnerable save in combat. Good food for thought.

 Sarigar wrote:
The lack of invulnerable save is has been a big let down for me regarding Shining Spears. In my games, they are great until the inevitable counter assault occurs and they crumble. But, I also have not used Asurmen in conjunction. I don't use Spears to assault on turn 1, so maybe that is an answer to have something with enough durability to contest objectives? Great close range shooting, solid assault, and with Asumen, in invulnerable save in combat. Good food for thought.

The trouble is I feel like asurmen wiuld be too slow to keep up with them. It could work IMO but it means you are sacrificing theor mobility. However, You could use that to your advantage.. The theory is you would auto advance Asurmen first out of a transport and then leapfrom the spears over him to capture the mid board near asurmen and protect+fortune+LFR them. (with skilled rider) along with a wave of chaff storm guardians and maybe. Then keep another unit of spears back for the third wave with asurmen being the anchor.

Dunno if it would be worth it though, Hes just so darn expensive.

All theory, but I think a lot depends where I want the Spears to go. Asurmen won't work if the Spears are going across the table. It's more likely they are going towards a single objective on my half of the board or center table. With Asumen in tow, and placing the obligatory Protect/Fortune on the Spears, they would be much more durable in assault. But, it will certainly be tricky in the movement/charge phases.

Asurmen is expensive, which has been a difficult barrier.

The curse of the phoenix lord.. :(

Trying out something slightly different. I found by taking Fateful Divergeance and Protect in an army, I effectively will have a Shining Spear Exarch with a 2++ save with two rerolls (Fateful and 1 CP). I'll set this unit up to avoid assault to sit on an objective and act as a bait shooting unit. I'm trying to find ways to keep the primary score close as I can achieve high secondary scores.

To keep things clear for my opponents, the different Craftworld traits are distinguishable via how the units are painted. Unfortunately, my Lynx is painted in a certain color which is why it is in the less optimized detachment (though, it still has Expert Crafters). I've also added a small element for assault, which I tend to skimp on. Finally, Iryllith as I really like the extra bit of powerful shooting and mobility he brings.

++ Patrol Detachment -2CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [58 PL, 10CP, 1,175pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Masterful Shots

Detachment Command Cost [-2CP]

+ HQ +

Farseer [6 PL, 115pts]: 0. Smite, 2. Doom, 4. Executioner, Shuriken Pistol, Witchblade
. Faolchu's Wing

Irillyth [7 PL, 140pts]

+ Troops +

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Shredding Fire

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Shredding Fire

Dire Avengers [2 PL, 55pts]
. 4x Dire Avenger: 4x Avenger Shuriken Catapult, 4x Plasma Grenades
. Dire Avenger Exarch: Two Avenger Shuriken Catapults
. . Exarch Power: Shredding Fire

+ Fast Attack +

Warp Spiders [4 PL, 95pts]
. 4x Warp Spider: 4x Death Spinner
. Warp Spider Exarch: Powerblades, Two Death Spinners
. . Exarch Power: Web of Deceit

+ Heavy Support +

Dark Reapers [18 PL, 350pts]
. 9x Dark Reaper: 9x Reaper Launcher
. Dark Reaper Exarch: Reaper Launcher
. . Exarch Power: Crack Shot

War Walkers [8 PL, 140pts]
. War Walker: Starcannon, Starcannon
. War Walker: Starcannon, Starcannon

+ Dedicated Transport +

Wave Serpent [9 PL, 170pts]: Spirit Stones, Twin Shuriken Catapult, Twin Starcannon

++ Patrol Detachment 0CP (Aeldari - Craftworlds) [44 PL, 825pts] ++

+ Configuration +

Craftworld Attribute
. *Custom Craftworld*: Expert Crafters, Hunters of Ancient Relics

Detachment Command Cost

+ HQ +

Spiritseer [3 PL, 60pts]: 1. Fateful Divergence, 6. Empower/Enervate, 6: Seer of the Shifting Vector, Shuriken Pistol, Warlord

+ Troops +

Storm Guardians [6 PL, 80pts]
. 8x Storm Guardian - Aeldari Blade: 8x Aeldari Blade, 8x Plasma Grenades, 8x Shuriken Pistol
. Storm Guardian - Special Weapon: Flamer
. Storm Guardian - Special Weapon: Flamer

+ Elites +

Wraithblades [10 PL, 200pts]: Ghostaxe and Forceshield, 5x Wraithblade

+ Fast Attack +

Shining Spears [5 PL, 105pts]
. 2x Shining Spear: 2x Laser Lance, 2x Twin Shuriken Catapult
. Shining Spear Exarch: Laser Lance
. . Exarch Power: Skilled Rider

+ Heavy Support +

Lynx [12 PL, 235pts]: Spirit Stones, Starcannon

Wraithseer [8 PL, 145pts]: 0. Smite, 4. Protect/Jinx, Starcannon

++ Total: [102 PL, 10CP, 2,000pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe (https://battlescribe.net)