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I'm looking forward to reading the Codex since I'm curious if one could drop in a Falcon turn 1, then deploy its PAX 3" from the hull or if the troops inside must also be 9" away from the enemy.

Extremely doubtful. You can’t deploy units from reserves turn one. And when you do come out of reserves that transport counts as moving. And disembarking is done at the start of the movement face. And reserves arrive at the end of the movement phase.

Why not just start the falcon on the table with the troops inside?

The Falcon rules are very specific. They can come in on turn one. The unit inside can disembark after the Falcon is placed; both the Falcon and unit(s) must be over 9" away.

Entire codex now released.

Some interesting stuff. Mostly fine. Nowhere near custodes and tau levels (which is probably a good thing) but some fun stuff in there.

Probably worth ending this thread and starting a fresh tactica for 9th? As this one will be 75 pages of misinformation for anyone searching etc

I think eldar are tau and custodes level. There is just so many tricks in the book

Strands of fate feels really powerful. You have to see it in action (already some youtube battle reports up). Sometimes, it just gives that something that enables a key model to survive when it shouldn't, or for that key long bomb charge to go in, and its a win.

Eldar have obscene amounts of dice fixing and reserve tricks.

I think this gives them what they need to succeed into tau.

I am less sure about custards since custards turn off a couple of things eldar really want to rely on to win.

stratigo wrote:
I think eldar are tau and custodes level. There is just so many tricks in the book

From early battle reports, it's not even close.

One game, the custodes won by a landslide after losing only two units. And then the custodes player realised he had another whole unit in deepstrike he had forgotten about all game and never used. He just never even got close to needing it.

Strands of fate is decent but very limited. Custodes get a lot more rerolls, along with better saves and invulns and protection from mortals. Not even close.

Eldar vs Tau may be closer, but eldar is overcosted and tau are undercosted. But points are easier to change.

Custodes need widespread changes to both points and CP costs, if not army abilities too.

I'd recommend to start a new thread when the new Eldar codex is released.

Will Harlequin and Ynnari information/tactics be in the Aeldari thread or will that be separate?

Harlequins looks pretty decent imo

Niiru wrote:

stratigo wrote:
I think eldar are tau and custodes level. There is just so many tricks in the book

From early battle reports, it's not even close.

One game, the custodes won by a landslide after losing only two units. And then the custodes player realised he had another whole unit in deepstrike he had forgotten about all game and never used. He just never even got close to needing it.

Strands of fate is decent but very limited. Custodes get a lot more rerolls, along with better saves and invulns and protection from mortals. Not even close.

Eldar vs Tau may be closer, but eldar is overcosted and tau are undercosted. But points are easier to change.

Custodes need widespread changes to both points and CP costs, if not army abilities too.

Custodes don’t get more rerolls. Why do you think they get more rerolls?

And like, youtube isn’t THE definitive answer to how an army has plays


Automatically Appended Next Post:
So the only custodes s eldar batrep I could find on youtube was, uh, people clearly not trying to be super competetive, but the custodes player clearly took better elements in his army. The eldar player had not a single aspect and brought a wraithknight. literally using none of the new book tricks either to try and play with mobility and reserves.

A representative of what eldar can do, this game was not. It wasn't even a good rep of custodes, but it at least had trajan and a bike cap and a few missiles. And a dreadnought.

So what you're saying is Custodes is the new faceroll faction of the moment, their basics are so strong you can almost forget strategy and still be competitive if you play well enough and the dice are on your side lol

Octovol wrote:
So what you're saying is Custodes is the new faceroll faction of the moment, their basics are so strong you can almost forget strategy and still be competitive if you play well enough and the dice are on your side lol

Pretty much. Though in large part because the custodes line up is so limited that there really isn’t a lot o of variation.

That said I think tau play quite strong into custodes. So the dream is kind of a counter triangle

Any thoughts if waveserpent spam is possible?

Sterling191 wrote:
Native turn 1 drop, and native ability to deploy cargo after arriving.

wow. just wow. so cool fluff wise. The army feels so fast now. but not like drukhari. different and so crafworld eldar imo. Controlled, tactical and systematic somehow. the miracle die rule fits the lore super well too. and seems very strong. great design. Iver heard some Silly stuff, though. The farseer powers having range 18 but 24 if you roll 10+. Makes no sense. also, I feel some of the psychic powers were nerfed way too hard. Quicken is completely neutered. What is that now? a situational late game scoring tool? also, taking the invuln debuff out of jinx is a shame, Imo. these days every one has an invuln and wee are seeing counters for them pop up. So why deny craftworlds that? its not a big problem, I just feel the spell would make for some cool plays in a meta like this. it was always such a great counter for heavy infantry like blight lords or custodes and stuff like that. but then again, shurikens now have that ap so maybe the army would simply be to good with jinx on top. I think im still against the nerf at the end of the day because doom and guide have taking such a huge hit. and dark reapers who were tied in with those three spells.

good thing we at least have a tool for invulns with linked fire.

Overall, though, I feel the general direction for the faction is a great one: better units that can actually achieve something without tripple layered psychic powers. And naturally, the powers have to be a bit weaker because of that.

I feel I want to go 3x falcons with 18 scorpions in them. Omg or banshees. or maybe 3x5 and karandras or something. drool. falcons seem amazing with that pulse laser.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Strands of fate feels really powerful. You have to see it in action (already some youtube battle reports up). Sometimes, it just gives that something that enables a key model to survive when it shouldn't, or for that key long bomb charge to go in, and its a win.

I love that mechanic sooooo elder. I jus hope its not op. I mean, you can still get stuff you totally not need so Imo, sister MD are still marginally better.

 Sazzlefrats wrote:
Any thoughts if waveserpent spam is possible?

I reckon Falcons may be the better spam option thanks to their turn 1 deepstrike and disembark rule.

Wave serpents are still good, but they're a max two-of now and even then the list I'm playing tomorrow only takes one.

Anybody else sick of people saying "they're gonna be so OP" yet?

It's all i'm getting at my local club and honestly, it's kind of ruining the excitement for me...

Obviously it's clear they're going to be top tier, but I'm trying to remain hopeful they they're not going to be miles ahead of the current meta.

 Crafter91 wrote:
Anybody else sick of people saying "they're gonna be so OP" yet?

It's all i'm getting at my local club and honestly, it's kind of ruining the excitement for me...

Obviously it's clear they're going to be top tier, but I'm trying to remain hopeful they they're not going to be miles ahead of the current meta.

Honestly the way I want to run mine (2 falcons with 6-man corsair squads) doesn't seem OP at all, just very fun and fluffy witht he "drop-pod" rules for the falcon. This codex also made Wraithlords with swords playable which I have been waiting for since I modeled them. Overall happy with the balance theory-crafting right now, I guess we'll see when I actually play test.

 Sazzlefrats wrote:
Any thoughts if waveserpent spam is possible?

It's always possible, but not sure if its effective.
Serpent spam is a formation of say five Serpents loaded with say msu aspect warriors approaching the opponent gradually and shooting their full load (like 3 shuricannons).
Not every enemy can withstand this fire power. And if the enemy comes close let out the fire dragon or other aspects to hold it at bay or slow down its advance.

What are some opinions of the new Jetbikes? New "hunters of ancient relics" and "hail of doom" on stock twin-catapult bikes seems really good for mid-field objective grabbers. Early and late-game if they live.

Robcio wrote:
What are some opinions of the new Jetbikes? New "hunters of ancient relics" and "hail of doom" on stock twin-catapult bikes seems really good for mid-field objective grabbers. Early and late-game if they live.

Haven't seen these rules so far.
But jetbikers with shuricannons and a rule like ''shoot and fade'' would definitely be an option to fill gaps in the shooting line and to capture objectives.

Robcio wrote:
What are some opinions of the new Jetbikes? New "hunters of ancient relics" and "hail of doom" on stock twin-catapult bikes seems really good for mid-field objective grabbers. Early and late-game if they live.

Been thinking about a full jetbike army with hail of doom:

PATROL:

HQ: Farseer on skyrunner

EL: 3 warlock skyrunners
EL: 3 warlock skyrunners

TR: 5 rangers

FA: 3 shroud runners
FA: 3 shroud runners

OUTRIDER:

HQ: Farseer on skyrunner

FA: 9 windriders (twin catapults)
FA: 9 windriders (twin catapults)
FA: 9 windriders (twin catapults)
FA: 6 singing spears
FA: 6 singing spears
FA: 6 singing spears

got about 100 points left (2000pt list) probably use it for exarch upgrades and singing spears and stuff..

Really like the shuriken catapult output in combination with hail of doom, bladestorm stratagem, guide and doom..

Probably too fragile to win tournaments but the range of movement is sick. I could give all the bikes +2 movement and a singing spear unit +2 charge (psychic power), use the strands of fate for one 6 to charge.... and that means the unit get 16+2+2+6+d6 with full movement and charging.

I did a small test and once got 6,6,6 and a 2 for strands of fate (6 dice and two reroll because of the farseers) I could use the 2 for assault and 3 rerolls for the inv save (6,6,6). It really makes the singing spear unit a lot tougher.

So, is there going to be a seperate Harlequin tactica thread for 9th? I know they are in the Eldar codex, but they are also still very much a stand alone army.

 wuestenfux wrote:

Robcio wrote:
What are some opinions of the new Jetbikes? New "hunters of ancient relics" and "hail of doom" on stock twin-catapult bikes seems really good for mid-field objective grabbers. Early and late-game if they live.

Haven't seen these rules so far.
But jetbikers with shuricannons and a rule like ''shoot and fade'' would definitely be an option to fill gaps in the shooting line and to capture objectives.

Stock bikes are 20ppm, Shuri-cannon are 30ppm. Hail of doom is auto-wound on 6's to hit (also counts as a 6 to wound) on shuriken weapons. I was thinking to go for max shots but the extra range, 2D and S6 for only one less shot is still a good trade-off but with a 50% increase in points not sure how worth it.

Hunters of ancient relics lets your units complete actions and still shoot. Hence my thinking with the midfield presence of jetbikes with 18" twin-catapult. To argue both sides, shuri-cannon ones could hold back field objectives and be a bit safer with the same craftworlds.

Edit: posted twice due to internet shenanigans


Automatically Appended Next Post:

shogun wrote:

Robcio wrote:
What are some opinions of the new Jetbikes? New "hunters of ancient relics" and "hail of doom" on stock twin-catapult bikes seems really good for mid-field objective grabbers. Early and late-game if they live.

Been thinking about a full jetbike army with hail of doom:

(Forgot how to "spoiler" hide stuff so i just cut your list to not take up space)
Yeah it looks super fun with the auto advance on bikes and either move-shoot-scoot or advance 22" and then still have no penalty to shoot with assault weapons.

I'm planning on fluffing my army to be corsairs (with 2 units of 6 dropping in falcons turn 1) and then a bunch of bikes zipping around fits their playstyle. (me and my buddies play ~1000pts games, for reference) I'm still debating the range of the shuri-cannons as the list would lack back-field support. Doing some quick math with squads of 6 the catapults will only kill 3.5 MEC and 11 chaff (T3 models, 4+AC) vs. 6 MEC and 8 chaff

That said, 2 squads of 6 cannons and one squad of 3 scatter laser to balance out chaff clear could work for balance.

I guess as seems to be a pattern with this codex (which i think is a good thing) it all comes down to the roll in you list. Every option seems fun and useful.

So after seeing the leaks, I cant see the point in ever taking Windriders over Spears, which is a shame because I started Eldar back in 4th/5th because Eldar Jetbikes were such cool Troops.

I was really hoping WRs would become Troops again since DAs got moved to Elites and Shroud Runners exist for Scatter laser spam.
But as Fast Attack, WRs have literally nothing that Spears or Shroud runners can't do better, except spam Shuricannons, which can be plentiful elsewhere in the list.

5 Spears with an Exarch with Shuricannon & Star lance will cost ~10pts more than 6 Shuricannon WRs.
Those 5 spears will be more durable (-1 to be hit, 5++) and will do way more damage overall. While thier shooting isn't as good as 18 Shuricannon shots, you still get 16 catapult shots, 3 Shuricannon shots and 5 Lance shots. That's respectable.
And obviously the melee output is better.

I just don't understand why WRs have to continue to be punished for 7th ed Scatterbike spam.

Good thing I converted all my WRs to Spears years ago.

-

 wuestenfux wrote:

 Sazzlefrats wrote:
Any thoughts if waveserpent spam is possible?

It's always possible, but not sure if its effective.
Serpent spam is a formation of say five Serpents loaded with say msu aspect warriors approaching the opponent gradually and shooting their full load (like 3 shuricannons).
Not every enemy can withstand this fire power. And if the enemy comes close let out the fire dragon or other aspects to hold it at bay or slow down its advance.

I've been collecting forge world wave serpents for years since 4th ed, so.... now that I got 11..... If its not useful in this edition, I'm selling a few

 Sazzlefrats wrote:

I've been collecting forge world wave serpents for years since 4th ed, so.... now that I got 11..... If its not useful in this edition, I'm selling a few

Wow. Even if Serpent spam somehow becomes the most absolute tippy-top of the meta, there's no way you'd want to field more than about 7-8. Remember you actually need the units that would fit into the Serpents plus HQs.
At 2000k pts, you'd be hard pressed to fit 7-8 INFANTRY units, 2-3 HQs and 7-8 Serpents in a single list.

And that's best case scenario. With Falcons being so good for Turn 1 arrival, it's probably best to do a mixed list.
I only have 3 total Grav tanks, but thanx to magnets, they can be any combination of units I need them to be.
But if I had 11, specifically Serpents, I'd probably sell 5-6 of them at least.
Just my 2 cents

-

 Galef wrote:

 Sazzlefrats wrote:

I've been collecting forge world wave serpents for years since 4th ed, so.... now that I got 11..... If its not useful in this edition, I'm selling a few

Wow. Even if Serpent spam somehow becomes the most absolute tippy-top of the meta, there's no way you'd want to field more than about 7-8. Remember you actually need the units that would fit into the Serpents plus HQs.
At 2000k pts, you'd be hard pressed to fit 7-8 INFANTRY units, 2-3 HQs and 7-8 Serpents in a single list.

And that's best case scenario. With Falcons being so good for Turn 1 arrival, it's probably best to do a mixed list.
I only have 3 total Grav tanks, but thanx to magnets, they can be any combination of units I need them to be.
But if I had 11, specifically Serpents, I'd probably sell 5-6 of them at least.
Just my 2 cents

-

Based on the responses, I'm probably going to keep 4 only.

Robcio wrote:

Stock bikes are 20ppm, Shuri-cannon are 30ppm. Hail of doom is auto-wound on 6's to hit (also counts as a 6 to wound) on shuriken weapons. I was thinking to go for max shots but the extra range, 2D and S6 for only one less shot is still a good trade-off but with a 50% increase in points not sure how worth it.

If you compare 9 twin linked catapult windriders with 6 shuri-cannon windriders (both 180 points) and add 'hail of doom' and 'bladestorm' then more shots also generates more 6's and more extra hits. It really helps if you got 'guide' going on and reroll all the 'non 6'-hits to get more 6's. I kinda like the 1 damage weapons with more and more -1 damage going around and you got no waste damage. shooting with D2 weapons at 3 wound models and you simply waste 25% of all the damage.

Galef wrote:
But as Fast Attack, WRs have literally nothing that Spears or Shroud runners can't do better, except spam Shuricannons, which can be plentiful elsewhere in the list.

5 Spears with an Exarch with Shuricannon & Star lance will cost ~10pts more than 6 Shuricannon WRs.
Those 5 spears will be more durable (-1 to be hit, 5++) and will do way more damage overall. While thier shooting isn't as good as 18 Shuricannon shots, you still get 16 catapult shots, 3 Shuricannon shots and 5 Lance shots. That's respectable.
And obviously the melee output is better.

I was also hoping that there would be an option to field windriders as troops. But that would mean you could destroy half the enemies army turn one with devastating fire power and speed. Now I'am going to try to push 3x6 shining spears forward backed up by 3x9 cheap windriders. If the enemy takes down my shining spears then 3x9 windriders can also bring in a lot of pain. meanwhile other units take objectives and dominate the field. still need to test this...