Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Great insights. Were the Ulthwe traits and strat that good? The invul save and +5 against mortal wounds makes things a hair more survivable, which we need, but I'm wondering if it's enough. I'm thinking of leaning into the glass cannon and using Beil-Tan for the rerolls to hit and exploding 6s for the aspects

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
I personally would recommend a Battalion since our Eldar appears to be very CP hungry, plus we've got a lot of great units in the Elite spot.

I need to work in Wraithlords, Fire Dragons, Striking Scoprions, and Dire Avengers and I'll be using all 6 slots for that.

Fire dragons are a trap for competitive play. Variance too high into invuls, and everything worth shooting has one. Too good a chance they bounce and just die.

 Galef wrote:

 The Red Hobbit wrote:
I personally would recommend a Battalion since our Eldar appears to be very CP hungry, plus we've got a lot of great units in the Elite spot.

I need to work in Wraithlords, Fire Dragons, Striking Scoprions, and Dire Avengers and I'll be using all 6 slots for that.

I've never needed lots of Elites but rather Fast Attack. I currently only own 4 Elites: 1 Scorpion unit, 1 Fire Dragon unit and now my Warlock Skyrunner and WL are Elites too. Since my Farseer makes the Warlock slotless, that means I'll only ever need 3 Elites anyway.
I hear you on the CP hunger, though. Hopefully Strands of Fate mitigates that a bit

-

Be careful with fast attack if you play into tau, they just die the second they touch the board.

I think that's the biggest issue with eldar non vehicle models is that tau just go "Sorry I have about 100 anti infantry indirect fire shots"

Scoundrel80 wrote:
The warp spiders are completely bonkers with the upgrade that gives them 1d6 shots more when coming out of deep. 5 guys roll a staggering 12 d6 s6 ap-2 d1 shoots.

Unfortunately they don't do that, they fire d6+1 shots each with the upgrade, not 2d6.

Just got my codex.. theres a lot to take in

WHat are peples stand outs ?

Ulthwe seems like a no-brainer.
Im guessing AOK getting a craftworld trait will be FAQ's

Not sure how I feel about the exarch powers points. 20-30 pts seems insane.. The extra wound etc is nice. But you have to take that pts coz you have to.

 Argive wrote:
Im guessing AOK getting a craftworld trait will be FAQ's

Why would the avatar having a craftworld trait not be appropriate? Each craftworld has its own Avatar, and as such they should get traits.

Don’t have the codex yet, but poking around the app gets me stats and points, so I might be missing something key (or numbers could be off).

As I sit down to build the Autarch I got in the Omen’s box, I’m trying to think of different builds and uses of him.

We can only have 1 in a list, and a few options: Bike, Wings, and Flex. Where the bike has a few, mostly trap-looking options, Wings has none.

Power level is weird. Both datasheets are PL5, but if you want to take a movement option on the foot one, both the wings/spider pack add PL +1, so you end up paying more. But if you go by points, they are all around 100 points.

Bike:
100 points flat, with none of the options changing this.
Can swap his lance for a sword. I don’t have the relic list, but barring that this is pure trap. The lance is just better.
Swapping for a Fusion Gun seems less of a trap, but still not worth it. You get a better shooting attack, but you melee attacks are reduced to just slapping you opponents with your fists, and the gun is going to require you to be close.
If there is a relic sword, that might make it worth it. But I’ve seen the stats for the relic bike floating around, so if he’s getting a relic, that seems to be the go-to choice. The lance seems the no brainer.

Wings:
So no options (Mandiblaster, sword, fusion pistol, wings). PL 6 105 points.
Compare to the bike, you get a better gun, but not by much (and mis out on the bike’s TLcats) Sword is not as good as the lance, but the mandiblaster should get a couple MWs. Probably not enough to tip the scales. Statline not as good as the bike. Is infantry, and gets sudden assault.

Why take this loadout over the bike? I’m not seeing a lot of compelling reasons. I assume Sudden Assault is just Deep Strike, but don’t have the rules text. That seems the only real use.

Flex:
This is where all the real options come from. PL 5-6, points are 80-120

You can swap the glave for a chainsword for free. Extra attack, but crappier stats. While there might be edge cases where it’s worth it, I think 95% of the time you are going to want to keep the glave.

Basic or Banshee helm - 5 points. This seems like it might be situationally worth the points. Making someone swing last could be useful if you were piling into an existing combat, and want to make sure your guys get their hits in. If they are hanging out in the backfield, carving units off the things he’s buffing might be useful. If he can’t quite do it on his own, this might be the edge. Overwatch denial is a thing, so not bad if you are going out to chop things up.

Shooty bit: Shuriken Pistol, Death Spinner, Fusion Gun, Reaper Launcher. 0-15 points.

So handing real guns to guys who hit on a 2+ seems like a good idea. Two are close range, one long. But the points could start to add up. Is it worth just keeping the pistol?

Spider Pack: 20 points/+1PL
This gives you some serious movement and mobility. Only real drawbacks are the points, the (small) chance of MW if you push it, and the Jump Pack keyword, which keeps you out of transports.

So some potential build ideas:

Foot, no helm, Glave, Reaper Launcher. 95 points. This guy is hanging out in the backfield giving buffs. While you could run him with a pistol for the ultra-cheep option, I think he can get the points back from the upgrade. While the spider pack seems a good idea, 20 points is a big ask for something you might not get a lot of use out of.

Jump, Helm, Glave, Fusion. 120 points. This is basically as tricked out as it gets. Going to get mixed into the thick of it and get some work done. Pricy, but with good offense and mobility. The question is how he compares to the bike. Unlike Wings, you have better chop/shooting than the lance. Mobility is comparable. Some perks to being infantry. If you are doing a mech list, you could drop the jump pack to save points.

Jump, Helm, Chainsword, Spinner. 115 points. This is your unit blender. Honestly doesn’t seem worth giving up the AV potential of the fusion gun, but the spinner is not bad, and slightly cheeper. If you were running mechdar, dropping the Jump Pack could save points. Hopping out of a Falcon with a 5 man squad of aspect warriors could be a good play.

These are just my rambling thoughts over coffee with partial info. What are everyone’s thoughts on how to field our Autarchs?

 Nevelon wrote:

Basic or Banshee helm - 5 points. This seems like it might be situationally worth the points. Making someone swing last could be useful if you were piling into an existing combat, and want to make sure your guys get their hits in. If they are hanging out in the backfield, carving units off the things he’s buffing might be useful. If he can’t quite do it on his own, this might be the edge. Overwatch denial is a thing, so not bad if you are going out to chop things up.

It seems telling that the Autarch has a 5pt upgrade that's better than several DE artefacts, and the response is 'Eh, maybe skip it. Got better things to do with those points.'

 vipoid wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

Basic or Banshee helm - 5 points. This seems like it might be situationally worth the points. Making someone swing last could be useful if you were piling into an existing combat, and want to make sure your guys get their hits in. If they are hanging out in the backfield, carving units off the things he’s buffing might be useful. If he can’t quite do it on his own, this might be the edge. Overwatch denial is a thing, so not bad if you are going out to chop things up.

It seems telling that the Autarch has a 5pt upgrade that's better than several DE artefacts, and the response is 'Eh, maybe skip it. Got better things to do with those points.'

I can’t speak for DE artifacts. You could be right.

It just seems so situational. Now that overwatch is a CP, how often do we see it? Sure, if you are charging into a wall of flamers, but for the most part it’s blowing a CP hopefully to do a wound. Most people seem to have better things to do with their resources.

The fight last thing is only on the charge, so the Autach is generally swinging first anyway. It only helps vs other first strike units, or when piling into existing combats. Could be good if you are helping a tarpit of wraithblades, but again, how useful?

It’s only 5 points, and the times it might come up are non-zero. But I could also see games where it never factors in.

 Nevelon wrote:

 vipoid wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

Basic or Banshee helm - 5 points. This seems like it might be situationally worth the points. Making someone swing last could be useful if you were piling into an existing combat, and want to make sure your guys get their hits in. If they are hanging out in the backfield, carving units off the things he’s buffing might be useful. If he can’t quite do it on his own, this might be the edge. Overwatch denial is a thing, so not bad if you are going out to chop things up.

It seems telling that the Autarch has a 5pt upgrade that's better than several DE artefacts, and the response is 'Eh, maybe skip it. Got better things to do with those points.'

I can’t speak for DE artifacts. You could be right.

It just seems so situational. Now that overwatch is a CP, how often do we see it? Sure, if you are charging into a wall of flamers, but for the most part it’s blowing a CP hopefully to do a wound. Most people seem to have better things to do with their resources.

The fight last thing is only on the charge, so the Autach is generally swinging first anyway. It only helps vs other first strike units, or when piling into existing combats. Could be good if you are helping a tarpit of wraithblades, but again, how useful?

It’s only 5 points, and the times it might come up are non-zero. But I could also see games where it never factors in.

If you're interested the Vexator Mask is an artefact that prevents overwatch (though not set to defend) and forces an enemy unit to fight last but doesn't reduce attacks like the Banshee Mask does. It also only works on a single unit - not all engaged units.

There's also a Warlord Trait that can make a unit fight last, but again only one and it doesn't do anything else at all.

In all fairness, I completely get what you're saying about the effect being fairly niche in 9th. It's just a little jarring to see an Eldar character get a 5pt upgrade that's vastly better than any equivalent Warlord Trait or Artefact the Dark Eldar possess, and it's still passed up.

However niche it might be, I still can't help but wish we got wargear that was even remotely comparable to it.


Oh, something I wanted to ask if you've got the codex - does the Autarch still have an auto-hitting Death Spinner (like the one printed for Eldritch omens), or was that amended for the actual codex?

I’m just running off what my W+ subscription in the app gets me, will get the codex next week.

But it just lists the spinner as blast, no auto-hits. Someone with an actual book could confirm.

 Argive wrote:
Just got my codex.. theres a lot to take in

WHat are peples stand outs ?

Ulthwe seems like a no-brainer.
Im guessing AOK getting a craftworld trait will be FAQ's

Not sure how I feel about the exarch powers points. 20-30 pts seems insane.. The extra wound etc is nice. But you have to take that pts coz you have to.

Biel-Tan looks very flexible with the min. 3 Battle Focus. I don't think the Exarch power boost is too expensive personally, they are glass cannons and many won't survive more than a round but most Exarchs have a very potent power. I'm looking forward to trying them out!

Just got the codex, lots to ponder.

Something I've noticed is that the points costs are written out kinda wonky on some units.
WarWalkers, for example are 55ppm and start with 2 Shuricannons, however it's +5pts for Shuricannons. So that 55pts is actually with 2 Scatterlasers and the DEFAULT 2 Shuricannon WW is actually 65ppm.
Not sure why they didn't just give 2 Scatters as default

-

Twilight Pathways wrote:

Scoundrel80 wrote:
The warp spiders are completely bonkers with the upgrade that gives them 1d6 shots more when coming out of deep. 5 guys roll a staggering 12 d6 s6 ap-2 d1 shoots.

Unfortunately they don't do that, they fire d6+1 shots each with the upgrade, not 2d6.

Yeah, cool. just read that. and your definitely right. much more reasonable. I didn't understand why it was so cheap either. makes sense.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
what are our general thoughts in strong stuff in the book?

What builds or archetypes do you guys see as viable?

in my single game I played sort of a jack of all trades list. I didn't explore the concepts of indirect fire, multiple prisms, wraith spam and bike heavy.

but it did do use the drop pod mechanic, Killy specialist aspects, infantry in transports, medium to heavy psychic, lots of guardians as objective holders, multilayered buffs (so complicated still), emphasis on strands and a lot of deep strike and scoring mobility (Those spiders and hawks play so well. truly amazing design now.)

The game was in a delicate balance at some point because I blundered into a armor of russ trap, but in the end it was a decisive eldar win. we played the mission the scourging (I think) from nachmund with the auspex scan mechanic.

the eldar army I posted in the above chokeheld and scored 12 primary plus did all the actions for mission specific scan and RnD for 3 turns in a row. we fought hard over that fifth central objective, and I just repelled his assaults and beat him back ultimately. thats something that was unthinkable with the old book- yeah, you could tech into something like 20 axe n shield wraithbaldes and dump them on the center, fortune, protect and say go. But that is just.. its so cheesy and rigid. Now, the elder can win a center objective with a lot of various units in several combinations. thats really great.

- I know space wolves are not super hot right now but for marines they are still decent. he ran 4 dreads and the list was scary in melee.

a few more points:
- multiple shuriken canons seem really, really good. they will be brutal vs custodes, I think. star cannons too. oh, and they absolutely destroy marines. it almost breaks my heart a little bit.

- we have to talk about the various action denial and ways to have our own guys do actions and shoot. I think this will be very good. I tapped a little bit into that, and I liked it. will of asyryan for example. Empair senses too.

- I thought about a skew list with tons of bright lances. we can get A LOT.




Automatically Appended Next Post:


"Fire dragons are a trap for competitive play. Variance too high into invuls, and everything worth shooting has one. Too good a chance they bounce and just die."

yeah, I sort of agree. my game actually has that as a headache for me. I rolled a lucky five on their first battle focus roll and got them out of the way after they dropped 2 outriders who transhumaned. I could have spent 2 cp to fire and fade them away to, but thats really steep. I did lose 1, though, as I couldn't get him out of LOS of some intercessors. the dragons then got lucky when one of those melee dreads missed a 8 inch charge with rerolls. they then popped out and killed that dread and then got whittled down through fortune and protect and were wiped two turns later and didn't kill anymore things. I think the last two guys pot shotted 2 assault intercessors.

so the six dragons cost 153 points and I spend a great deal of thought and resources (buffs, cp, strands) to keep them alive. They killed a 150 point dread, 2 outriders and a few ints. Its a tough call with these, because they are just so good to have en reserves with a falcon. it messes with your opponents plans as they just melt almost anything if you can get buffs on them and you almost always can. the threat from that alone is a thing.

all in all, im not super sold on them. on the other hand; my opponent spend resources on chasing and ultimately killing them too. Having them around was a threat. its like this; you try to force him to shoot at something every turn and get protect/fortune/lightning fast on that unit to make the shooting as bad as possible. this game it was 1. banshees 2. dragons 3. scorpions (Deeping in with the autocharge t3)

a three wave aspect assault. the beauty of it almost made me cry

I think avengers get the nod for shooting drop pods... er falcons.

but you can only fit six in. They are good though. I run 10 in a serpent. my first list idea had 30 initially : ) but I dropped it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
if you buff up strands completely, is rolling seven, keeping five (retooling x with farseers) the best you can do with all the strand related relics, WTs and other buffs I can't think of?

2 things I noticed while flipping through the dex before work.

1. Correct me if I'm wrong, but looks like vehicles get the craftworld traits. If so, that's nice as I figured it would only be infantry and bikers.

2. Prince Yriel halves the command points required for Iyanden and Corsairs units to be put in reserves. I wonder if this stacks with the Webway Gate's ability to do the same. If so that could interesting.

 l0k1 wrote:
2 things I noticed while flipping through the dex before work.

1. Correct me if I'm wrong, but looks like vehicles get the craftworld traits. If so, that's nice as I figured it would only be infantry and bikers.

2. Prince Yriel halves the command points required for Iyanden and Corsairs units to be put in reserves. I wonder if this stacks with the Webway Gate's ability to do the same. If so that could interesting.

1. I had always assumed vehicles got the traits anyway. They did last edition, far as I can recall.

2. Hmm. Interesting. Though there is a limit to how much stuff you can actually put in reserves anyway. Though in bigger games it may be funny. "I have 2000 points in reserve. 1CP."

1. Yea, everything gets a Trait other than the Avatar of K

2. It says in the new Warp gate rules, it does not stack with other similar rules. But the rounding down part is Broken, 3 CP, becomes 1 CP, 5 CP, Becomes 2 CP!!

goodman111 wrote:
1. Yea, everything gets a Trait other than the Avatar of K

2. It says in the new Warp gate rules, it does not stack with other similar rules. But the rounding down part is Broken, 3 CP, becomes 1 CP, 5 CP, Becomes 2 CP!!

Where does it says AOK does not get CW trait ? He cant take relics or WL traits but I didn't see anything about about CW traits.

I have to say im impressed by the phoenix lords. Old as hell models but FINALY they get an invuln. Haven't looked at the points but asurmen seems like an absolute monster.

The Avatar gets Faction Keyword <Craftworld> while the Phoenix Lords do not so I would assume it gets the CW traits.

New thread please.

 wuestenfux wrote:
New thread please.

I agree

 vipoid wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

Basic or Banshee helm - 5 points. This seems like it might be situationally worth the points. Making someone swing last could be useful if you were piling into an existing combat, and want to make sure your guys get their hits in. If they are hanging out in the backfield, carving units off the things he’s buffing might be useful. If he can’t quite do it on his own, this might be the edge. Overwatch denial is a thing, so not bad if you are going out to chop things up.

It seems telling that the Autarch has a 5pt upgrade that's better than several DE artefacts, and the response is 'Eh, maybe skip it. Got better things to do with those points.'

Oh Vipoid... it's not the same and you know it. If you want to trade Howling Banshees for Incubi and give us transports as cheap and effective as Raiders to enable our melee units, I'd agree with you. CWE doesn't have that and it makes our little brawlers less viable in comparison, so the artefact is worth less.