Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

That the Imperial Guard didn't receive a Triumvirate model in Fall of CADIA should really tell you something about how much of a hoot they give anymore.

I think if we see anything close to a revamp/update/release for the Guard it will be when the plot swings around to Armageddon or at least Ghaz. Then again, it seems more likely anything involving those would have Yarrick "grievously wounded" in half a paragraph, to be rescued and Ghaz driven off by the latest Primaris'ed Space Marine character. The book will have a few, mid-ground shots of the Steel Legion metals but otherwise consist almost entirely of Primaris Templars/Wolves/Salamanders/Angels. Oh and probably Sisters since they're the new hotness.

In my opinion, the entire Imperial Guard range can be solved with a simple retcon/fluff change and a single variable kit setup. The kit would offer 3 body options (vest, jacket, coat) and 5 head options (headband, beret, hat, helmet, gasmask) that only differ slightly. For example, the jacket is the classic Cadian look, the vest is a waist-long jacket without sleeves, and the coat is a knee-long jacket. You get a different regiment by combining bodies and heads: vest+headband=Catachan, vest+beret=Tanith, vest+gasmask=Savlar, jacket+hat=Mordian, jacket+helmet=Cadian, jacket+gasmask=Armageddon, coat+hat=Vostroyan, coat+gasmask=Krieg, etc. Then there would be upgrade sprues for Command Squads, Veterans, etc. Easy to do since each upgrade sprue has to comfort the same slightly varying base design.

This would require the fluff to change to more standardized regiments, but in the Age of Primaris this shouldn't be too problematic.

 Arbitrator wrote:
That the Imperial Guard didn't receive a Triumvirate model in Fall of CADIA should really tell you something about how much of a hoot they give anymore.

I think if we see anything close to a revamp/update/release for the Guard it will be when the plot swings around to Armageddon or at least Ghaz. Then again, it seems more likely anything involving those would have Yarrick "grievously wounded" in half a paragraph, to be rescued and Ghaz driven off by the latest Primaris'ed Space Marine character. The book will have a few, mid-ground shots of the Steel Legion metals but otherwise consist almost entirely of Primaris Templars/Wolves/Salamanders/Angels. Oh and probably Sisters since they're the new hotness.

well Sisters did not get anything in "Faith and Fury" (unlike 10 pages of rules for generic Marines who just had a entire Codex) so I doubt anything will be allowed to take the gloss off Space Marines.

I guess there's no SoB Army Pack coming out the same day as Faith and Fury.


People seem to make too big of a deal out of "X got something, why didn't Z?!". I'm guilty of it myself(why the hell weren't there 'signature units in the non-Ultramarines supplements?! Shrike should have gotten a Honor Guard, damnit! Why didn't we get Kasrkin with Fall of Cadia?!) , but it really really really needs to be clarified that not everything with these books will be a model release.

You want to bitch about some rules that go alongside of Salamanders and Black Templars getting a spotlight fighting Chaos Marines? Cool. Go do it somewhere else. This isn't the thread for that.
We've still got a ways to go with regards to the Psychic Awakening, so who knows what else will be coming.

I feel your pain, but I think it is unlikely that GW will really do much about this. And in any case, Xenos factions like Eldar need the love more.

 Da Boss wrote:
I feel your pain, but I think it is unlikely that GW will really do much about this. And in any case, Xenos factions like Eldar need the love more.

A lot of it seems to be hinged upon when the new factory comes online and sorts out its initial teething issues--and when they decide to do large scale range revamps in one swoop.

@ OP:

Don´t be afraid, son. Catachans already got new figures in the form of the Command & Heavy squads. So when does the humble Infantry box gets updated you might ask? Easy, just wait for another ten years and they eventually come around. That´s a given.

It would require significant fuff changes for new AM. They'd have to "find" new STCs, etc. to field new vehicles.

Additionally, most IG players already have tons and tons of Guard, so the 'risk' of a new line of minis is fairly high.

Finally, these designs are starting to approach end-of-trade-mark-legal-protection age/3rd party sellers have made serious inroads.

---

tl;dr - Not a lot of profit, too much risk for GW to make new AM.

My $0.02.

Wargames Atlantic has released ‘good enough’ plastic Steel Legion and will soon release ‘pretty good’ Vostroyans in plastic. There is clearly a market that GW is ignoring, and it is large enough to support multiple resin and plastic ranges. If GW released a $90ish box with 50 or more half-assed monopose guardsmen, they could put those other companies on the ropes over night.

But, knowing GW, if they did release new plastic guard, the multipose kits would be $50 for 10, with suboptimal weapon options, and give GW every reason to blame the IG faction for poor sakes rather than their own stupid practices. (That is, if they don’t sell out of stock in 30 minutes.)

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Wargames Atlantic has released ‘good enough’ plastic Steel Legion and will soon release ‘pretty good’ Vostroyans in plastic. There is clearly a market that GW is ignoring, and it is large enough to support multiple resin and plastic ranges. If GW released a $90ish box with 50 or more half-assed monopose guardsmen, they could put those other companies on the ropes over night.

Yeah, and then we wouldn't hear the end about how mean ol' GW put those other companies out of business and it's a big ol' monopoly again...

Frankly, what needs to happen is that Guardsmen need to be made worth that 10 model unit make-up. They need to stop being treated as an army that is made up of just chaff and treated more akin to the Tau, where even Fire Warriors have a reason to be on the field.

But, knowing GW, if they did release new plastic guard, the multipose kits would be $50 for 10, with suboptimal weapon options, and give GW every reason to blame the IG faction for poor sakes rather than their own stupid practices. (That is, if they don’t sell out of stock in 30 minutes.)

Right, because the last time they released a unit revamp kit(Fire Warriors, btw) they did this...

Frankly, I would expect something like this for any basic Shock Troop rekit:
12 model set, with parts in there for a heavy weapons team(assuming they retain them as part of the Infantry Squad)
One of each Special Weapon for the Infantry Squad(so Veteran Squads would, unless they become their own kit somehow, require multiple boxes) options
One of each Sergeant weapon setup.

Personally? I'm leaning towards Heavy Weapons Teams getting cut from Infantry and Veteran Squads, in favor of new weapon options ala GSC and Chaos Cultists. Heavy stubbers, flamers, doubling up on special weapons--etc.

GSC are better Imperial Guard than Astra Militarum.

 Briancj wrote:
GSC are better Imperial Guard than Astra Militarum.

Close to it, yeah!

When you can model IG with anything from 19th century models through WW1, WW2, VIETNAM, modern, sci-fi or even Star Wars 28mm models, who cares what GW supports?

I think more so folks need to realize they don’t need GW in the first place for their IG models rather than GW wasting design time on niche regiments that a box of Hasslefree or PSC will work as easily or better than any GW offering.

 Overread wrote:
Just a thought

Warcry basically took the concept of Chaos Marauders and made 8 brand new dynamic kits from that concept. If that sells well and does ok then it might be something that GW considers for Imperial Guard. They'd still end up with a core of unified models; but you could see them release a selection of world-themed infantry with heavy weapons teams etc... in their own plastic boxed set.

It won't get back to the days of old where they could do an entire themed regiment of models in metal per subgroup; but they could at least do the core infantry and then let gamers use conversions and paint for the standard models. Plus they can release unique commisars and such steadily over the years as they desire.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Just a thought

Warcry basically took the concept of Chaos Marauders and made 8 brand new dynamic kits from that concept. If that sells well and does ok then it might be something that GW considers for Imperial Guard. They'd still end up with a core of unified models; but you could see them release a selection of world-themed infantry with heavy weapons teams etc... in their own plastic boxed set.

It won't get back to the days of old where they could do an entire themed regiment of models in metal per subgroup; but they could at least do the core infantry and then let gamers use conversions and paint for the standard models. Plus they can release unique commisars and such steadily over the years as they desire.

isint that kind of what necromunda is ?

Honestly, GW could release a 20 man kit with heavy weapons and command squad parts included and do that for each regiment. 3-4 sprues might be enough. Then sell it for 60 usd.

Infantry Squads need to immediately lose Heavy Weapons Teams, or the damn things need to get rules to split out of the unit when formed.

There's no real point to Heavy Weapon Squads until this happens.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Infantry Squads need to immediately lose Heavy Weapons Teams, or the damn things need to get rules to split out of the unit when formed.

There's no real point to Heavy Weapon Squads until this happens.

Heavy Weapon Squads (without mortars) would continue to be pointless.

When your only protection is 6 T3 5+ wounds and you need LoS... You die.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Infantry Squads need to immediately lose Heavy Weapons Teams, or the damn things need to get rules to split out of the unit when formed.

There's no real point to Heavy Weapon Squads until this happens.

Heavy Weapon Squads (without mortars) would continue to be pointless.

When your only protection is 6 T3 5+ wounds and you need LoS... You die.

I'm well aware. It's why I've argued in other threads for Heavy Weapon Teams to get Character-style protections or other things of that nature, such as "Entrenched Positions" giving them increased range on their weapons when they've remained stationary alongside of a negative modifier to being hit by units they've shot.


It's also why I've continually argued that until we see a full, actual revision of Guard as an army that's supposed to work like the fluff? It's going to continually limp along as this "meh" thing mainly good for gimmicks at the moment.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Infantry Squads need to immediately lose Heavy Weapons Teams, or the damn things need to get rules to split out of the unit when formed.

There's no real point to Heavy Weapon Squads until this happens.

Heavy Weapon Squads (without mortars) would continue to be pointless.

When your only protection is 6 T3 5+ wounds and you need LoS... You die.

I'm well aware. It's why I've argued in other threads for Heavy Weapon Teams to get Character-style protections or other things of that nature, such as "Entrenched Positions" giving them increased range on their weapons when they've remained stationary alongside of a negative modifier to being hit by units they've shot.


It's also why I've continually argued that until we see a full, actual revision of Guard as an army that's supposed to work like the fluff? It's going to continually limp along as this "meh" thing mainly good for gimmicks at the moment.

There should be a vast array of options for the Guard

By actual Lore, they are by far and away the most varied arm of the Imperium Military - Vastly more so than the Marines - but we just don't get any of that in model form (cos always new Marine models to make) so its never going to be as rules either sadly.

 Briancj wrote:
It would require significant fuff changes for new AM. They'd have to "find" new STCs, etc. to field new vehicles.

Additionally, most IG players already have tons and tons of Guard, so the 'risk' of a new line of minis is fairly high.

Finally, these designs are starting to approach end-of-trade-mark-legal-protection age/3rd party sellers have made serious inroads.

---

tl;dr - Not a lot of profit, too much risk for GW to make new AM.

My $0.02.

Not really. Just slap 40k rules on the rest of the Solar Auxilia vehicle line, and allow the Guard to take Old Marine vehicles with some restrictions. The Guard got the Carnodon and volkite weapons recently. Which is better than nothing, and proved that it's possible the Mechanicus is sitting on STCs for other Imperial Army vehicles. And since Papa Smurf is calling the shots for Big E, nothing is stopping him from removing the restrictions on who gets what (ex Land Raiders---Not that it was ever adhered to 100% in the last 10,000 years anyway).

I do agree with what you say regarding new model designs (or bringing OOP Forge World Guard units over to plastic). But what I mentioned above would be a quick and easy way to expand the Imperial Guard vehicle line a bit.

The main issue is GW infantry models. There needs to be more variety in the official line

No, there really doesn't need to be "more variety in the official line". There needs to be a solidified look, with minor details used to distinguish the various Regiments.

It seems it would be pretty easy to put all regiments in one box.

Normal cadian torsos
Torsos with coats (like DKoK)

Separate "frills" or "fur blobs" to snap onto the edges of coats if you want Vostroyans

Epaulets for Mordians

Then you include heads for all the above + Elysians. 3 sprues will be enough for all of this. The legs will be interchangeable.

Tallarn get their own box because they'd need different "baggy" legs.

Literally none of that works. It would look like a Lego or Playmobil figure.

You're also talking about no actual options for the squad by doing this, because the sprues would be packed with extraneous stuff just to please some grognards who likely won't even buy the damn kit while spamming us with their complaining about the price.

No. Move forward, bring in a new aesthetic using Cadians as the basis. If people want the 'gothic' look, we have the Militarum Tempestus on that side of things.
Leave the actual Guard with the more 'realistic' look.

I'd probably go for something more like: standardized flak jacket body, standardized legs (maybe with knee/shin pads), take the shoulder pads off the arms and have them separate, and have a set of heads for each regiment. Honestly a paintjob and a head swap will do it for most of them.
Might work split into 2 boxes, with a set of great coat legs on that fits with the standard bodies - with half the heads in that box (Valhalla, Steel Legion, Vostroyan, probably).

 Kanluwen wrote:
I guess there's no SoB Army Pack coming out the same day as Faith and Fury.


People seem to make too big of a deal out of "X got something, why didn't Z?!". I'm guilty of it myself(why the hell weren't there 'signature units in the non-Ultramarines supplements?! Shrike should have gotten a Honor Guard, damnit! Why didn't we get Kasrkin with Fall of Cadia?!) , but it really really really needs to be clarified that not everything with these books will be a model release.

You want to bitch about some rules that go alongside of Salamanders and Black Templars getting a spotlight fighting Chaos Marines? Cool. Go do it somewhere else. This isn't the thread for that.
We've still got a ways to go with regards to the Psychic Awakening, so who knows what else will be coming.

Point ONE: It was claimed that Sisters were the "new Hotness" - this depsite the debarcle of a 2 week pre order lasting 10 mins because they massively underestimated the demand (GW words NOT mine) despite plugging it for months and know loads of people were interested. The set that loads of people did not get - yeah awesome ( I did manage to get one)

Point TWO: Marines just had a Codex and a load of supplements, and a load of models - they then apparently purposefully left out a whole 10 pages of rules that should have been in the Codex just to give generic Marines a further boost nd chance to hog the spotlight/Community focus. Black Templars supplement made sense - cramming yet more generic Marine stuff following endless releases is insulting to the factions that they hightlighted as part of the story - ie Sisters and Guard.

Point THREE: We know whats coming - more Marines - fair enough Bolod Angels (again) - with an awesome model but is there going to be yet another load of must have generic Marine rules crammed in - just because - seems likely.

Point FOUR: Why were there no sig units for non Angel/wolves Supplements - maybe they will come - when I agree they should have been in the supplement - in the days before the "No model, no rules BS" we would have got them.

Point FIVE: When do we get a single Supplement for a Kabal, Dynasty, Regiment, Craftworld, Cult, Hive Fleet, Order, Troupe, Coven, etc etc.

A Regimental Supplement or two would be the perfect opportunity to release a infantry box for each but hey why do that when you can make more............Marines.

Here's a pic of my guard kitbashed from GSC and steel legion stuff. There's also Necron Immortal Gauss weapons there as either plasma guns or volley guns depending how I'm running them.

 Stormonu wrote:
When you can model IG with anything from 19th century models through WW1, WW2, VIETNAM, modern, sci-fi or even Star Wars 28mm models, who cares what GW supports?

I think more so folks need to realize they don’t need GW in the first place for their IG models rather than GW wasting design time on niche regiments that a box of Hasslefree or PSC will work as easily or better than any GW offering.

A lot of people - especially in the UK - play at official GW stores where it isn't an option, particularly if said stores tend to devour the chances of LFGS in the area.

 Kanluwen wrote:
No, there really doesn't need to be "more variety in the official line". There needs to be a solidified look, with minor details used to distinguish the various Regiments.

An unrealistic expectation, considering the company in question. Games Workshop loves to sell models. And there is no indication that they are going to change anytime soon.

If what you propose was the bee's knees, GW would have never separated the Guard and Space Marine lines to begin with. Everything would still be fairly uniform as it was back in the RT era, equipment-wise

What I propose doesn't require new designs for the Imperial Guard to be made from scratch. And considering GW's desire to always sell more models, a realistic one.

 oldravenman3025 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
No, there really doesn't need to be "more variety in the official line". There needs to be a solidified look, with minor details used to distinguish the various Regiments.

An unrealistic expectation, considering the company in question. Games Workshop loves to sell models. And there is no indication that they are going to change anytime soon.

If what you propose was the bee's knees, GW would have never separated the Guard and Space Marine lines to begin with. Everything would still be fairly uniform as it was back in the RT era, equipment-wise
What I propose doesn't require new designs for the Imperial Guard to be made from scratch. And considering GW's desire to always sell more models, a realistic one.

Which one sells more models:
A complete, aesthetically pleasing line that can be fully stocked in stores or a mishmash of nonsense that has a good chunk of it as Direct Order?

Your whole argument, additionally, is predicated upon the idea that GW doesn't already have "new designs for the Imperial Guard" and has been sitting on them for a release window. We've had a lot of artwork of Guardsmen in Cadian environmental gear with hellguns over the past few years.

 Argive wrote:
I think the overarching question should be, what are GWs plans for 40k?

Ive said this before but before GW was synonymous with 40k. Now every article is about one of the side games, AOS etc.

It seems they are heavily focused on those and 40k feels pretty neglected. (Yes, I know SM got lots of stuff...But SM is not 40k..)

With the whole chaos thing and story arcs progressing it all seems very end timesish.

I think the end times of 40k will just be GW's policy taken to their logical conclusion.

Basically, Rowboat Girlyman leads his 5-billion-strong* legion of 12th-generation Primaris warriors into battle.

They first wipe out every Tyranid Hive Fleet (Guilliman briefly becomes infected but defeats it by discorporating himself and literally punching the Hive Mind itself into a different galaxy), then smash the entire Tau Empire, detour for a quick expedition to destroy Commorragh (Vect attempted to mount a defence but Guilliman had flawlessly outplayed him, having already replaced Vect's entire personal guard with Primaris Marines in spiky-armour).

The Orks prove easy prey as Guilliman simply finds Ghazghkull Thraka and gives him such a beating that the entire Ork race has an existential crisis and realise that they're nowhere near as tough as they thought they were, cease believing in themselves, and promptly vanish in a puff of logic.

The Necrons and their Tomb Worlds prove more problematic, but once again Guilliman's genius prevails. Ordering his lieutenant to hand him the biggest snooker-cue they have, he leaps into space and begins striking each and every Tomb World out of their respective solar systems. He lines them up magnificently before potting them into a black hole, obliterating the Necron menace once and for all.

The Eldar are obviously wise to most ploys, but Guilliman defeats them at their own game. He corners and kills the entire Triumvirate of Ynnead, then moves on to kill and supplant Ynnead himself. Manifesting psychic powers of his own, Guilliman quickly becomes far more successful than the would-be Eldar god ever was, gaining the worship of the entire Eldar race. He spent the next 500 years turning their entire culture to become completely and utterly devoted to him and reliant on him in every possible way. Then, as they prepared to celebrate 5 centuries of his guidance and wisdom, he removed the false moustache with which he had infiltrated their race and revealed that he wasn't their god at all. Their collective waves of despair shattered the collective minds of the entire Eldar race, along with every single soulstone in the galaxy.

This burst of psychic despair also opened a portal through the warp through which Guilliman and his legions travelled to do battle with the Chaos Gods themselves. It was a difficult battle even for Guilliman but the tide began to turn once he had outplayed Tzeentch and convinced him to take up a steady job. And once he'd affixed the chastity-belt to Slaanesh the fate of the remaining Chaos gods were all but sealed. Nurgle's corpulent hide was all but invulnerable to harm, but fortunately Guilliman had accounted even for that. He and his warriors blasted the bloated god of pestilence with vials of Guilliman's own immune system until only a puddle of pus remained. Naturally, Khorne fought to the last, but in a move of astonishing strategic brilliance, Guilliman first distracted him by throwing the corpse of Abaddon at him, then beat him to death with his own head.

At last, the galaxy was utterly purged of all Xenos and Guilliman could finally take up the position of Emperor (the old Emperor freely handing over the title to him and proclaiming Guilliman to be a swell guy).

Of course, even in a galaxy free of Xenos, the threat of war still looms. The Blood Angels declare that Guilliman is the greatest warrior who ever lived, yet the Black Templars say this is heresy and that Guilliman is the best tactician who has ever lived. The Space Wolves say a lot of stuff about wolves but most people try to ignore them.

Thus, while Guilliman takes a well-earned rest on his imperial throne, the many Space Marine factions prepare to go to war to decide once and for all the exact nature of his greatness.

*If you're wondering how he got that many, Cawl has stasis tanks or something.