Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

So what are you guys using for long ranged AT?

The new exorcist seems pretty reliable and tasty but also very vulnerable to many match ups, like going second against Eldar flyers or playing against imperial fists.

On the other hand Retributors with MM, Simulacrum and 2 Cherubs seem also pretty sweet but only really 1 squad can do the job per term, as the stratagem is pretty mendatory to extend their threat range imo.

Would love to here your experiences!

 lash92 wrote:
The new exorcist seems pretty reliable and tasty but also very vulnerable to many match ups, like going second against Eldar flyers or playing against imperial fists.

I've only played one game so far, but the Exorcist seems able to tank a surprising amount of fire. They'll still go down to dedicated focused anti-tank, but the Valorous Heart 6+++ can mean that you have to sink an extra shot into them before they die.

Exorcists definately benefit from being run in threes though, as that means that you've still got two decently functional tanks even if one does get blown up turn one.

Seraphim with two double Inferno Pistols dropping in with the strat to boost their range can do a lot as well. They comfortably murdered a Bloodthirster in a turn with a little Mircale Dice help.

 Jancoran wrote:

ERJAK wrote:


I would argue that losing the vehicle 4++ is significantly less impactful and easier to shrug off because we can simply stop using vehicles, as I have outside of the exorcist. We can't choose to stop using BSS.

Wait. You are trying to say that losing a silly StormBolter on a Sister superior for 2 lousy points is significant in your mind...But losing 4+ on Exorcists isn't?

Some posters hold extremely passionate positions, which is normally not a bad thing. Unfortunately, you can't reason people out of positions they didn't reason themselves into. Once you start reading the hyperbolic nonsense it's easy to recognize it for what it is - loud noises.

TBF I kind of understand it though.

If you wanted Unit1126PLL's review of the codex in one sentence:

"Nice, great, but what the hell is with Canoness weapon options and why do Sister Superiors lose their storm bolters?"

I never played vehicles, so barely noticed the 4++ thing or exorcist buff as a blip on the radar. But as someone who plays an infantry spam list, having to remodel all the SB Superiors (who are metal) is really freaking annoying. It has very little to do with in-game effectiveness and everything to do with being asked to adjust metal models for some inscrutable reason.

Like, why tho?

Same with the canoness options. My combimelta canoness will require butchering the model to fix, or I have to play her as legends. Why not let canonesses have combi-meltas in the new book? Because of a kit they themselves designed and don't know the rules for anyways (ref: plasma pistol/rod of office canoness)?

 lash92 wrote:
So what are you guys using for long ranged AT?

The new exorcist seems pretty reliable and tasty but also very vulnerable to many match ups, like going second against Eldar flyers or playing against imperial fists.

On the other hand Retributors with MM, Simulacrum and 2 Cherubs seem also pretty sweet but only really 1 squad can do the job per term, as the stratagem is pretty mendatory to extend their threat range imo.

Would love to here your experiences!

Well as release is later no game experience but 3 excorsist ignoring ap-2 and retributor squad with meltas plus some melta guns and inferno pistols is my initial idea.

tneva82 wrote:

 lash92 wrote:
So what are you guys using for long ranged AT?

The new exorcist seems pretty reliable and tasty but also very vulnerable to many match ups, like going second against Eldar flyers or playing against imperial fists.

On the other hand Retributors with MM, Simulacrum and 2 Cherubs seem also pretty sweet but only really 1 squad can do the job per term, as the stratagem is pretty mendatory to extend their threat range imo.

Would love to here your experiences!

Well as release is later no game experience but 3 excorsist ignoring ap-2 and retributor squad with meltas plus some melta guns and inferno pistols is my initial idea.

The only problem I have with exorcists is the big fat lascannon shaped hole in their defenses. Like "please I ignore AP-2 have T8 and have a 6++ save please PLEASE don't have S9 AP-3 specifically!!!"

I used 2 squads of 10x Rets with 4 Multi-melta pretty well for my long-ranged AT needs... but having to dedicate CP to Storm of Retribution definitely hurt. I only had to use it once, though. I did have an Exorcist on the field, too, just to distract a little anti-tank-shaped weaponry from being able to hit the Retributors.

Buffed up Valorous Heart Rets in cover are incredibly tanky, too. Probably about as sturdy as the Exorcist itself without the drawback of taking multiple wounds per shot.

As for losing Storm bolters on Superiors... peh, whatever. I'll miss the BSS x5 squad with 3 Storm bolters, but I've deflected to using larger squads (10-15) with 1x meltagun in each. They're a lot more dangerous than the extra storm bolter EVER was, ESPECIALLY with the MD mechanic. I should probably make them combi-meltas on the Superiors, but just 1 melta shot has been amazing so far. Also, Simulacrums have been standouts as well with that configuration. Those distributed meltaguns have such a wide range of applications throughout the game.

the_scotsman wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 lash92 wrote:
So what are you guys using for long ranged AT?

The new exorcist seems pretty reliable and tasty but also very vulnerable to many match ups, like going second against Eldar flyers or playing against imperial fists.

On the other hand Retributors with MM, Simulacrum and 2 Cherubs seem also pretty sweet but only really 1 squad can do the job per term, as the stratagem is pretty mendatory to extend their threat range imo.

Would love to here your experiences!

Well as release is later no game experience but 3 excorsist ignoring ap-2 and retributor squad with meltas plus some melta guns and inferno pistols is my initial idea.

The only problem I have with exorcists is the big fat lascannon shaped hole in their defenses. Like "please I ignore AP-2 have T8 and have a 6++ save please PLEASE don't have S9 AP-3 specifically!!!"

Well can't have everything. Lucky us current meta is tons of -1/-2 shots as most stuff have inv save anyway.

And that's why i have infantry meltas scattered around. Plus if i go second that lascannon needs to be more mobile than infantry to get los

Speaking of infantry meltas - I'm curious why the feelings on Inferno Pistol superiors are so lackluster. Speaking as someone who plays pretty much pure Wych Cult drukhari, one of the meanest nastiest things about my MSU mechanized list is the single strength 8 AP-4 d6D shot that every single one of my MSU squads can put down.

The Pistol type means I can use it even if I'm engaged in close combat (which my wyches generally want to be, but I guess with Sisters that'd be a pretty small benefit) and the short range is a bit of a drawback but mostly offset by the fact that they're just so damn cheap I can throw them on all my squads and not feel like it makes the list significantly worse.

Inferno Pistols combined with the miracle dice system seem like no brainers to me on most of my basic BSS squads. You've got the potential to use a "3" or better miracle die and 1cp to deal D6 damage to any T7 3+ vehicle.

the_scotsman wrote:
Speaking of infantry meltas - I'm curious why the feelings on Inferno Pistol superiors are so lackluster. Speaking as someone who plays pretty much pure Wych Cult drukhari, one of the meanest nastiest things about my MSU mechanized list is the single strength 8 AP-4 d6D shot that every single one of my MSU squads can put down.

The Pistol type means I can use it even if I'm engaged in close combat (which my wyches generally want to be, but I guess with Sisters that'd be a pretty small benefit) and the short range is a bit of a drawback but mostly offset by the fact that they're just so damn cheap I can throw them on all my squads and not feel like it makes the list significantly worse.

Inferno Pistols combined with the miracle dice system seem like no brainers to me on most of my basic BSS squads. You've got the potential to use a "3" or better miracle die and 1cp to deal D6 damage to any T7 3+ vehicle.

I guess playtesting and see (the doom of all speculation) - but my thoughts are "how often are your sisters in 6")? How often do they get charged (or charge) and survive to your shooting phase?

It feels like a nice upgrade that could be situationally incredible - but once you have it on say 6 squads, thats starting to add up to the bulk of another squad and the trade off is having more bodies.

the_scotsman wrote:

Well as release is later no game experience but 3 excorsist ignoring ap-2 and retributor squad with meltas plus some melta guns and inferno pistols is my initial idea.

Anyone else think its wierd that they massively blinged up the Vehicles and then gave them no upgrades?

Exorcists must be equipped with an Exorcist Missile Launcher -OR- Exorcist Conflagration Rockets. The Rockets are 30p cheaper, but you have to choose one or the other. They're not fire modes of the same gun.

KestrelM1 wrote:
Exorcists must be equipped with an Exorcist Missile Launcher -OR- Exorcist Conflagration Rockets. The Rockets are 30p cheaper, but you have to choose one or the other. They're not fire modes of the same gun.

Which I immediately took to meaning there would be a noticeable difference in their appearance on the model itself. Why else make this different profile into a completely different weapon?

But as I flipped through the pictures and noticed an Exorcist sporting slightly different coloured missiles in the organ tubes, I started to realize that this made too much sense so I guess GW went the other way

Inferno Pistols are not necessarily bad, but that 6" range is pretty iffy. If you wanted to max like Flamer weapons, Inferno Pistols become much better... but Meltaguns and Plasma guns (and their combi-cousins) play a bit better with numbers that the rest of the squad is playing with.

12" = 2x Rapid Fire range, it is also maximum charge distance. With MD, you can threaten chargers, especially characters and vehicles, with the meltagun a lot more efficiently than the 6" inferno pistol. Same applies to the plasma gun, though it'll fade off a bit vs high wound count models.

Inferno pistol is usually only MORE useful at point-blank range, or if you manage to survive a melee through to your shooting phase. None of these are typically going to end up well for the squad.

I think an argument can be made for the Canoness, since her role is a bit different and tougher to just mob up in melee, in addition to being able to survive just a touch better in combat... but still, I use it exactly like a sidearm: last ditch effort when things start getting a bit pear-shaped and I need an out.

Purifying Tempest wrote:
Inferno Pistols are not necessarily bad, but that 6" range is pretty iffy. If you wanted to max like Flamer weapons, Inferno Pistols become much better... but Meltaguns and Plasma guns (and their combi-cousins) play a bit better with numbers that the rest of the squad is playing with.

12" = 2x Rapid Fire range, it is also maximum charge distance. With MD, you can threaten chargers, especially characters and vehicles, with the meltagun a lot more efficiently than the 6" inferno pistol. Same applies to the plasma gun, though it'll fade off a bit vs high wound count models.

Inferno pistol is usually only MORE useful at point-blank range, or if you manage to survive a melee through to your shooting phase. None of these are typically going to end up well for the squad.

I think an argument can be made for the Canoness, since her role is a bit different and tougher to just mob up in melee, in addition to being able to survive just a touch better in combat... but still, I use it exactly like a sidearm: last ditch effort when things start getting a bit pear-shaped and I need an out.

To me, I want the psychological effect of the weapon almost more than the actual in-game effect.

Let's say I have a basic footslogging non-melee sisters list setup. I've decided to skew against anti-tank weaponry and it's a marine meta moment right now, so I'm going valorous heart with ignore ap-2 imagifiers. I've got 5-woman sisters squads with 1 storm bolter per squad as my troops, some hand flamer seraphim standing in the 4++ relic bubble or maybe with Celestine as a screen, a drop squad of melta seraphim to deal with point threats, some bolter retributors to hold my backline, and my elite slots are easily filled with a couple of imagifiers and a celestian squad to tank wounds against the raven guard sniper heavy matchup.

I could either:

1) pay 47 points per squad of BSS and have 4 boltguns and a storm bolter per squad

Or

2) pay 59 points per squad of BSS and have 4 boltguns, a storm bolter, an inferno pistol and a simulacrum per squad.

Door number 2 does raise the average cost of a sister body up from 9.4 to 11.8 and that is a problem, but suddenly I'm not handing my opponent an obvious answer as to which squads he should immediately target, because the Seraphim squads cost 11.4ppm, storm bolter dominion squads cost 11.6ppm, and storm bolter celestian squads cost 10.8ppm.

There are still obvious priority targets in the list like if I choose to include a suicide melta dominion squad for when I know I'm getting first turn, or the heavy bolter retributors though those are harder to reach and harder to kill, but it gives each sisters squad a distrinctly increased threat.

I don't think keeping your squads at 9.4ppm is necessarily BAD, I just think it presents a different gameplan, and it's a gameplan where you know that all your special stuff is going to be focused down because you cannot present any threat from BSS at all and you're relying on your bodycount to allow you to control the field later in the game when all your rets doms seraphim and celestians are dead.

And personally I think generating more miracle dice than you can efficiently use in a turn is going to be a problem in lists where you scorn the simulacrum and keep all your troop squads as cheap as humanly possible. You can get 1 per turn base, 1 per turn from a 45pt autoinclude HQ and 1 per turn from a 50pt terrain piece that gives you cover and LOS block anywhere on the board. And that's before generating any at all from active actions.

With infernos, each squad can pop you for guaranteed 6 damage. each squad can use a 3 and autohit and autowound. each squad can threaten the immediate death of a rambo smash character if they fail their invuln. And that means they're something you might have to consider.

Played a game today, so I have some real experience instead of just personal theorycrafting:
Triumph underperformed pretty badly. The extra Miracle Dice was handy, but I'd have been better off ditching her and shaving points elsewhere to get another Battalion.

The terrain piece is really nice. In any game where I have the detachment available, I'll probably be taking one, unless the model is too unwieldy to be useful.

Celestine still does work, and her significantly improved Warlord Trait makes her a good choice for Warlord.

I seriously felt the loss of Storm Bolter Superiors. Over the course of the game, it added up very, very quickly, and I probably lost 30+ bolter shots as a result.

I need to remember to use Miracle Dice more often, and want to see the FAQ for how miracle dice work with large attack sequences. I ended up dumping handfuls of them onto 4+ invulnerable saves late in the game because I'd been saving them too much and didn't have anything else to spend them on.

Speaking of: Miracle Dice are excellent for a lot of purposes, but especially charging. Guaranteed 9" charges out of deep strike, (or other long charges,) is *massive*. Other benefits are really nice to have too, but that's the one I felt the most.

My Penitent Engines got blown up before I could use them. I want to try them again, but they may be too fragile to be practical in three-engine squads now.

And, incidentally, Eisenhorn underperformed compared to a vanilla inquisitor, but that's not Sisters tactica.

Waaaghpower wrote:

I need to remember to use Miracle Dice more often, and want to see the FAQ for how miracle dice work with large attack sequences.

It's simple when you remember that at it's core all attacks are done one at the time. So 4 melta guns for example are never going to be doing 4d6 damage as one roll as you would go melta gun 1: to hit, to wound, save, damage and repeat this for melta guns 2-4.

Guess faq is needed by definition as it is asked often but answer is still going to be for one roll which means one damage roll(how many dice weapon stat rolls etc). No using 4 MD to get quaranteed 4 melta guns hitting or anything like that.

Waaaghpower wrote:
Played a game today, so I have some real experience instead of just personal theorycrafting:
Triumph underperformed pretty badly. The extra Miracle Dice was handy, but I'd have been better off ditching her and shaving points elsewhere to get another Battalion.

The terrain piece is really nice. In any game where I have the detachment available, I'll probably be taking one, unless the model is too unwieldy to be useful.

Celestine still does work, and her significantly improved Warlord Trait makes her a good choice for Warlord.

I seriously felt the loss of Storm Bolter Superiors. Over the course of the game, it added up very, very quickly, and I probably lost 30+ bolter shots as a result.

I need to remember to use Miracle Dice more often, and want to see the FAQ for how miracle dice work with large attack sequences. I ended up dumping handfuls of them onto 4+ invulnerable saves late in the game because I'd been saving them too much and didn't have anything else to spend them on.

Speaking of: Miracle Dice are excellent for a lot of purposes, but especially charging. Guaranteed 9" charges out of deep strike, (or other long charges,) is *massive*. Other benefits are really nice to have too, but that's the one I felt the most.

My Penitent Engines got blown up before I could use them. I want to try them again, but they may be too fragile to be practical in three-engine squads now.

And, incidentally, Eisenhorn underperformed compared to a vanilla inquisitor, but that's not Sisters tactica.

So, you took Celestine and the Triumph in the same list?

So miracle dice are flipping amazing.

On turn two on my game this past weekend, my opponent just kept talking gak about my Zephyrim Squad. He's all like, no way you'll make that 11 inch charge.

I just stared at him for a moment, picked up the two 6's I had in my miracle dice pool and moved them into CC with his abaddon.

Chop. Chop. Abaddon dead.

Don't discount the miracle dice.

Heh. Going to take a while for people to keep in mind what miracle dices you have available. Even single 6 will make charge fairly easy. 6 + any one of them for adjusting after roll with CP and CP reroll if need be is almost as good as using 2 dices at once saving MD's most of the time(plus no need to have 2 high ones for that. 6+1 is plenty)

tneva82 wrote:
Heh. Going to take a while for people to keep in mind what miracle dices you have available. Even single 6 will make charge fairly easy. 6 + any one of them for adjusting after roll with CP and CP reroll if need be is almost as good as using 2 dices at once saving MD's most of the time(plus no need to have 2 high ones for that. 6+1 is plenty)

Blood Rose Zephyrim are no joke.

With the Passion and Rapturous Blows, + their Bloody Rose Trait and a well placed Tear them Down for 1 CP, they put out

31 Attacks on the charge @ S3 AP-4, rerolling ALL failed wounds @ +1 to wound with Exploding 6s. The great thing about it too is that BR trait benefits pistol weapons too, so BPs become AP -1. You also get to reroll failed charges for the unit and get +1 Invuln.

Drop, Shoot, Charge, Act of Faith (If needed), Stab.

Any one here considering hand flamers for Superiors? I'm considering a battalion with 3x 5 sister squads w/ 1 melta in each. Allows for holy trinity strategem. Might be a thing, but im still hesitant to through melta into 5 girl squads that can die so easy.

 Togusa wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Heh. Going to take a while for people to keep in mind what miracle dices you have available. Even single 6 will make charge fairly easy. 6 + any one of them for adjusting after roll with CP and CP reroll if need be is almost as good as using 2 dices at once saving MD's most of the time(plus no need to have 2 high ones for that. 6+1 is plenty)

Blood Rose Zephyrim are no joke.

With the Passion and Rapturous Blows, + their Bloody Rose Trait and a well placed Tear them Down for 1 CP, they put out

31 Attacks on the charge @ S3 AP-4, rerolling ALL failed wounds @ +1 to wound with Exploding 6s. The great thing about it too is that BR trait benefits pistol weapons too, so BPs become AP -1. You also get to reroll failed charges for the unit and get +1 Invuln.

Drop, Shoot, Charge, Act of Faith (If needed), Stab.

Very cool, planning on painting all my seraphim and zepharim slightly differently from the rest of the army to represent bloody rose.

 Twoshoes23 wrote:
Any one here considering hand flamers for Superiors?

I am considering it for my upcoming Bloody Rose force, but I don't understand anything about Sisters, so you probably shouldn't listen me...

 Crimson wrote:

 Twoshoes23 wrote:
Any one here considering hand flamers for Superiors?

I am considering it for my upcoming Bloody Rose force, but I don't understand anything about Sisters, so you probably shouldn't listen me...

Really for the 1 point and loss of 1 bolter shot at 12", it may be worth it for unlocking holy trinity

I think of of the big things about mircle dice once sisters have been out "in the wilds" a bit and people know more about them is going to be how they impact how people play, as sisters will be able to pull off suprising upsets with MD and effectively "beat the odds when it's really needed" people may play more cautiously agaisnt them. because something that for anyone else would be a "hail mary" for sisters will be MUCH more acheivable

 Grundz wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

 Twoshoes23 wrote:
Any one here considering hand flamers for Superiors?

I am considering it for my upcoming Bloody Rose force, but I don't understand anything about Sisters, so you probably shouldn't listen me...

Really for the 1 point and loss of 1 bolter shot at 12", it may be worth it for unlocking holy trinity

My initial test of Holy Trinity is going to be 10x Bloody Rose Seraphim with 2x hand flamer and 2x inferno pistol deployed on the table to escort Celestine to the party. One their own, the flamers and pistols make them hard to charge, the infernos might finish the job a melta BSS starts, and all together with the strat (assuming full strength) I think it's 16 S4 BS3+ shots at +1 to wound (3+ vs. MEQ) and -1AP, two S8 shots wounding most things on 2s with -5AP for 1d6D, and 2d6 autohits that maybe get to wound on 4s or 5s, again with -1AP. Not being able to split fire w/ Trinity is a bear, but it seems like a squad with good utility, good resiliency, and good range for 126 points if I've done my math right.

Man, it's tough deciding between Bloody Rose Seraphim/Zephyrim spam and Argent Shroud Retributors/BSS. Both seem fun and deadly to play.

 Twoshoes23 wrote:
Any one here considering hand flamers for Superiors? I'm considering a battalion with 3x 5 sister squads w/ 1 melta in each. Allows for holy trinity strategem. Might be a thing, but im still hesitant to through melta into 5 girl squads that can die so easy.

Have them be valorous heart and they don't die so easy and you can add second special weapon. At least storm bolters for some extra shots