Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I've tried running both Exorcists and multi-melta Retributors, and it's seemed very one sided to me so far. In my games, Exorcists just destroy anything they look at, especially with Ebon Chalice (on demand 6's for damage is nice), while my Retributors have failed to do a single wound (bolters from extra girls did kill some stealers though). Of course, some of this is variance, luck, and good positioning from my opponent/bad positioning from me, but it still seems fairly convincing to me at least. Double the range, same number of shots as a full squad of Rets, same strength, same damage unless you're in half range (quarter range of the exorcist), 1 better AP that doesn't matter much half the time because of invulns being common.

The stratagems for the Rets do help, but it feels like spending 2 CP to make them closer to even. And I really want to like Rets.

I've had the opposite experience, playing Argent Shroud.

Rets are always in range, the +12" range stratagem means they're almost always in melta range, and they are much much less vulnerable to Simulacrum, as well as being able to use 2 MD since they can have a Simulacrum.

I've done 14 damage on more than one occasion (or 13) with the stratagem and MD combo.

My Exorcists typically just melt under withering fire. Any list that can kill 3 Tank Commanders can kill 3 Exorcists, and any list that can kill 3 Tank Commanders can kill a Knight, which most lists have to do these days today.

 deviantduck wrote:
I've not played a non-ITC game in 8th edition.

Well you are in us. Itc is mainly us thing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
So.. Uh... well... We'll find out how true this turns out to be.

Spoiler:

https://imgur.com/a/N4ll56Y

Indeed. I am actually really curious to see how this plays out in games as I really don't think it's going to be as big a deal as some people make it out to be.

Still waiting on GWs faq though. Really hope they don't make us wait till after the full release for it.

Well big deal would be gw once more admitting they don't even understand own rules if they change how it works

As for faq gw already stated they wait for full release to get more feedback...

 Unit1126PLL wrote:
I've had the opposite experience, playing Argent Shroud.

Rets are always in range, the +12" range stratagem means they're almost always in melta range, and they are much much less vulnerable to Simulacrum, as well as being able to use 2 MD since they can have a Simulacrum.

I've done 14 damage on more than one occasion (or 13) with the stratagem and MD combo.

My Exorcists typically just melt under withering fire. Any list that can kill 3 Tank Commanders can kill 3 Exorcists, and any list that can kill 3 Tank Commanders can kill a Knight, which most lists have to do these days today.

I think they're about even honestly. But my exorcists have been fluffing their rolls something awful in every game and I rarely get more than 2d6 damage on a given target. I will say last game I played I took rets and an exorcist on rets on opposite flanks and the exorcist did more damage but over more turns whereas the rets killed most of the targets on their flank earlier then sat about twiddling their thumbs for the rest of the game.
I'd say the difference is spread ourlt damage vs burst damage more than anything else. But as I said my exorcists keep rolling below average.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
So.. Uh... well... We'll find out how true this turns out to be.

Spoiler:

https://imgur.com/a/N4ll56Y

Indeed. I am actually really curious to see how this plays out in games as I really don't think it's going to be as big a deal as some people make it out to be.

Still waiting on GWs faq though. Really hope they don't make us wait till after the full release for it.

I've been playing it as single die MDs but have wished many, many times I could do multiple dice.

Don't suppose anyone has come across any battle reports or are willing to play a game with a mate to experiment using the multiple MD interpretation? I'd do it myself but I don't have time to game these days.

I keep meaning to try 30x Rets of 3x Exorcists but I don't have 12 Multi Melta sisters, only 6. Since I'm prepping for LVO it's hard to want to practice with units/models that I just don't have nor have access to.

I like how Rets in theory are more survivable vs las canons and the like but their damage out and range is worse in most cases.

Rynner wrote:
I keep meaning to try 30x Rets of 3x Exorcists but I don't have 12 Multi Melta sisters, only 6. Since I'm prepping for LVO it's hard to want to practice with units/models that I just don't have nor have access to.

I like how Rets in theory are more survivable vs las canons and the like but their damage out and range is worse in most cases.

I think I have 4-6 unprimed rets and a whole bunch of MMs if you want me to mail you some for vegas?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
I've not played a non-ITC game in 8th edition.

Well you are in us. Itc is mainly us thing.

True. The St. Louis area is really competitive, too. There's 4 local game stores and an ITC tourney almost every weekend somewhere. The various local clubs do their best not to conflict schedules so everyone can participate in all of them.

Waaaghpower wrote:
Does anyone have a solution for dealing with Tau? I played a tournament practice game recently and just got demolished because I couldn't do anything about his Riptides, on account of Shield Drones making them effectively indestructible unless you can get into melee and cause a lot of damage there. I couldn't get anti-infantry weapons close to kill the drones because most of them were hiding behind LoS blockers, I couldn't tie up the Tides in combat because they have Fly, and I couldn't damage them directly because the drones were able to absorb anything I had that was strong enough to hurt a Riptide.

(And no, I'm not looking for people saying to just "play the mission", because ITC missions revolve mainly around killing things, and because it's not feasible to ignore 800ish points of mobile, long-ranged death with LoS-ignoring guns.

I'm also struggling against Imperial Fists, but I think there the only solution is "Go first so you can blunt the damage before getting blasted off the board". Tau I'm just out of ideas entirely.

I'm one of the few true T'au players in my immediate area, though there are a few who play them. Riptide spam is just straight up good. They tear t3 up. Its just what they do.

Some decent answers are most definitely Argent Shroud Storm Bolting Dominion.

You can do Mortifiers which are incredibly fast and with the Ebon Chalice Warlord trait, very reliable. Once they are involved, i feel like your enemy target priority gets chosen for them, by you, as you bring your forces to bear.15" move, assault 3 Heavy Bolters into the chaff shielding, and then its onto the slaughter, splitting attacks to end many drone units and force morale on more. Anguish of the Unredeemed goes off? Good! Desperate For Redemption goes off for 3 CP, and you are wailing on the Riptide probably at that point and you've wasted all his drones. I think Mortifiers are a very good answer to the Riptide issue but it does sadly hinge on going first. On the plus side, exorcists coooould confuse his target priority some?

Exorcists with Conflagration rockets can do serious work on a larger singular group of drones. Also a cheaper option. Taking one of your Exorcists this way could be a thing with Devastating Refrain Stratagem. Make a big deal out of how many drones it kills and he may have a choice to make that is unenviable

So that is a few ideas. The key is that drones are usually in large numbers and you kinda gotta take em out en masse all at one go to ensure future rounds go well.

 Jancoran wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
Does anyone have a solution for dealing with Tau? I played a tournament practice game recently and just got demolished because I couldn't do anything about his Riptides, on account of Shield Drones making them effectively indestructible unless you can get into melee and cause a lot of damage there. I couldn't get anti-infantry weapons close to kill the drones because most of them were hiding behind LoS blockers, I couldn't tie up the Tides in combat because they have Fly, and I couldn't damage them directly because the drones were able to absorb anything I had that was strong enough to hurt a Riptide.

(And no, I'm not looking for people saying to just "play the mission", because ITC missions revolve mainly around killing things, and because it's not feasible to ignore 800ish points of mobile, long-ranged death with LoS-ignoring guns.

I'm also struggling against Imperial Fists, but I think there the only solution is "Go first so you can blunt the damage before getting blasted off the board". Tau I'm just out of ideas entirely.

I'm one of the few true T'au players in my immediate area, though there are a few who play them. Riptide spam is just straight up good. They tear t3 up. Its just what they do.

Some decent answers are most definitely Argent Shroud Storm Bolting Dominion.

You can do Mortifiers which are incredibly fast and with the Ebon Chalice Warlord trait, very reliable. Once they are involved, i feel like your enemy target priority gets chosen for them, by you, as you bring your forces to bear.15" move, assault 3 Heavy Bolters into the chaff shielding, and then its onto the slaughter, splitting attacks to end many drone units and force morale on more. Anguish of the Unredeemed goes off? Good! Desperate For Redemption goes off for 3 CP, and you are wailing on the Riptide probably at that point and you've wasted all his drones. I think Mortifiers are a very good answer to the Riptide issue but it does sadly hinge on going first. On the plus side, exorcists coooould confuse his target priority some?

Exorcists with Conflagration rockets can do serious work on a larger singular group of drones. Also a cheaper option. Taking one of your Exorcists this way could be a thing with Devastating Refrain Stratagem. Make a big deal out of how many drones it kills and he may have a choice to make that is unenviable

So that is a few ideas. The key is that drones are usually in large numbers and you kinda gotta take em out en masse all at one go to ensure future rounds go well.

The big issue is the drones sitting out of LoS. Terrain is the biggest factor in a SoB vs Tau matchup.

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Don't suppose anyone has come across any battle reports or are willing to play a game with a mate to experiment using the multiple MD interpretation? I'd do it myself but I don't have time to game these days.

Depends on what you mean with multiple MD interpretation. The only way I could even see that being a legitimate interpretation is with fast rolling, which is only for hits and wounds for like weapons against like targets, not for armour saves or damage where the impact is much higher.

You can do Mortifiers which are incredibly fast and with the Ebon Chalice Warlord trait, very reliable.

How does the Ebon Chalice WL trait help Mortifiers? Even if you mean the EC conviction, Mortifiers don't have Order keyword and can't benefit from the orders ability to burn MD for an auto 6.

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:

You can do Mortifiers which are incredibly fast and with the Ebon Chalice Warlord trait, very reliable.

How does the Ebon Chalice WL trait help Mortifiers? Even if you mean the EC conviction, Mortifiers don't have Order keyword and can't benefit from the orders ability to burn MD for an auto 6.

They also can't benefit from the stratagem.

Your choice of conviction has no effect on mortifiers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jancoran wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
Does anyone have a solution for dealing with Tau? I played a tournament practice game recently and just got demolished because I couldn't do anything about his Riptides, on account of Shield Drones making them effectively indestructible unless you can get into melee and cause a lot of damage there. I couldn't get anti-infantry weapons close to kill the drones because most of them were hiding behind LoS blockers, I couldn't tie up the Tides in combat because they have Fly, and I couldn't damage them directly because the drones were able to absorb anything I had that was strong enough to hurt a Riptide.

(And no, I'm not looking for people saying to just "play the mission", because ITC missions revolve mainly around killing things, and because it's not feasible to ignore 800ish points of mobile, long-ranged death with LoS-ignoring guns.

I'm also struggling against Imperial Fists, but I think there the only solution is "Go first so you can blunt the damage before getting blasted off the board". Tau I'm just out of ideas entirely.

I'm one of the few true T'au players in my immediate area, though there are a few who play them. Riptide spam is just straight up good. They tear t3 up. Its just what they do.

Some decent answers are most definitely Argent Shroud Storm Bolting Dominion.

You can do Mortifiers which are incredibly fast and with the Ebon Chalice Warlord trait, very reliable. Once they are involved, i feel like your enemy target priority gets chosen for them, by you, as you bring your forces to bear.15" move, assault 3 Heavy Bolters into the chaff shielding, and then its onto the slaughter, splitting attacks to end many drone units and force morale on more. Anguish of the Unredeemed goes off? Good! Desperate For Redemption goes off for 3 CP, and you are wailing on the Riptide probably at that point and you've wasted all his drones. I think Mortifiers are a very good answer to the Riptide issue but it does sadly hinge on going first. On the plus side, exorcists coooould confuse his target priority some?

Exorcists with Conflagration rockets can do serious work on a larger singular group of drones. Also a cheaper option. Taking one of your Exorcists this way could be a thing with Devastating Refrain Stratagem. Make a big deal out of how many drones it kills and he may have a choice to make that is unenviable

So that is a few ideas. The key is that drones are usually in large numbers and you kinda gotta take em out en masse all at one go to ensure future rounds go well.

Some of this is wrong. Conflagration rocket exorcists suck, even for their anti-infantry purpose because 3 HB retributors and 2 hb mortifiers do right around the same number shots on average for so much cheaper that even the extra rend doesn't make the Exo efficient.

Mortifiers do not benefit from sacred rights, order convictions, miracle dice, or order specific stratagems.

The rest I agree with.

I thought Mortifiers would still benefit from Sacred Rites given they have the relevant keyword, but I'm pretty far away from my codex to check lol

Only units with the Sacred Rights rule can benefit from Sacred Rights, and then only if you're 100% sororitas or ministorum. Morty-fiers have sororitas keyword but not the Sacred Rights rule.

ERJAK wrote:

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:

You can do Mortifiers which are incredibly fast and with the Ebon Chalice Warlord trait, very reliable.

How does the Ebon Chalice WL trait help Mortifiers? Even if you mean the EC conviction, Mortifiers don't have Order keyword and can't benefit from the orders ability to burn MD for an auto 6.

They also can't benefit from the stratagem.

Your choice of conviction has no effect on mortifiers.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jancoran wrote:

Waaaghpower wrote:
Does anyone have a solution for dealing with Tau? I played a tournament practice game recently and just got demolished because I couldn't do anything about his Riptides, on account of Shield Drones making them effectively indestructible unless you can get into melee and cause a lot of damage there. I couldn't get anti-infantry weapons close to kill the drones because most of them were hiding behind LoS blockers, I couldn't tie up the Tides in combat because they have Fly, and I couldn't damage them directly because the drones were able to absorb anything I had that was strong enough to hurt a Riptide.

(And no, I'm not looking for people saying to just "play the mission", because ITC missions revolve mainly around killing things, and because it's not feasible to ignore 800ish points of mobile, long-ranged death with LoS-ignoring guns.

I'm also struggling against Imperial Fists, but I think there the only solution is "Go first so you can blunt the damage before getting blasted off the board". Tau I'm just out of ideas entirely.

I'm one of the few true T'au players in my immediate area, though there are a few who play them. Riptide spam is just straight up good. They tear t3 up. Its just what they do.

Some decent answers are most definitely Argent Shroud Storm Bolting Dominion.

You can do Mortifiers which are incredibly fast and with the Ebon Chalice Warlord trait, very reliable. Once they are involved, i feel like your enemy target priority gets chosen for them, by you, as you bring your forces to bear.15" move, assault 3 Heavy Bolters into the chaff shielding, and then its onto the slaughter, splitting attacks to end many drone units and force morale on more. Anguish of the Unredeemed goes off? Good! Desperate For Redemption goes off for 3 CP, and you are wailing on the Riptide probably at that point and you've wasted all his drones. I think Mortifiers are a very good answer to the Riptide issue but it does sadly hinge on going first. On the plus side, exorcists coooould confuse his target priority some?

Exorcists with Conflagration rockets can do serious work on a larger singular group of drones. Also a cheaper option. Taking one of your Exorcists this way could be a thing with Devastating Refrain Stratagem. Make a big deal out of how many drones it kills and he may have a choice to make that is unenviable

So that is a few ideas. The key is that drones are usually in large numbers and you kinda gotta take em out en masse all at one go to ensure future rounds go well.

Some of this is wrong. Conflagration rocket exorcists suck, even for their anti-infantry purpose because 3 HB retributors and 2 hb mortifiers do right around the same number shots on average for so much cheaper that even the extra rend doesn't make the Exo efficient.

Mortifiers do not benefit from sacred rights, order convictions, miracle dice, or order specific stratagems.

The rest I agree with.

.I didn't say the mortifiers specifically needed the Conviction.

Conflagration rockets are very good with the stratagem. And what i said was that it will help confuse priority. It will clear a good sized chunk of drones. Has a hb too. Added bonus I suppose.

You are right about the Miracle die. I saw that they were Sororitas, but missed that they dont have the Act of Faith rule. Yup. I stand corrected on that point.

 deviantduck wrote:

Rynner wrote:
I keep meaning to try 30x Rets of 3x Exorcists but I don't have 12 Multi Melta sisters, only 6. Since I'm prepping for LVO it's hard to want to practice with units/models that I just don't have nor have access to.

I like how Rets in theory are more survivable vs las canons and the like but their damage out and range is worse in most cases.

I think I have 4-6 unprimed rets and a whole bunch of MMs if you want me to mail you some for vegas?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

 deviantduck wrote:
I've not played a non-ITC game in 8th edition.

Well you are in us. Itc is mainly us thing.

True. The St. Louis area is really competitive, too. There's 4 local game stores and an ITC tourney almost every weekend somewhere. The various local clubs do their best not to conflict schedules so everyone can participate in all of them.

I'll send you a pm.

 Giantwalkingchair wrote:
Don't suppose anyone has come across any battle reports or are willing to play a game with a mate to experiment using the multiple MD interpretation? I'd do it myself but I don't have time to game these days.

I've done a couple games with multiple MD and games with 1 md.

The short of it is multi MD can let you focus on making an army made to generate as many MD as possible and help make important attacks stick a lot better which can be done one a turn and still have MD for defensive purpose. If you don't focus on getting as much MD multiple MD let's you make a decent attack every other round.

With single MD focusing on generating MD kinda feels like a waste and becomes cp intensive to make use of them

Single MD without MD focus is "its nice to have" it won't matter to much and feels more of a use it on anything kinda feel

My impression of Exo vs. MM Rets is that Exos are definitley a better AT option, but because of rule of 3, you'll likely need to bring a full MM squad along side 3 exos to meet your AT quota in a pure 2k army. Is that about right?

Another thing that retributors benefit more from spamming multiple squads than exorcists. Exorcists are limited to 1 act period. Retributors can get 1 per squad. In general sister vehicle spam will be losing MD power a lot.

Big thing in favour of exorcists is though with vh and imagifier they are very resilient against the current meta weapons that will reap infantry quite fast. There's reason why infantry little armies are gaining popularity.

Just finished my second game with the Sisters. fought Papa Nurgle. I absorbed his worst in a serious way. It was great!

Retributors did 20 wounds to a Plagueburst Crawler. Super sweet. They were GOING to wreck a Daemon Prince but he conceded. Dominion powered through some Terminators who dropped in my backfield. did 7 wounds to them, and they only saved 2. So down went 5 Terminators, plus another to the bolter fire and Grenade.Failed Morale. Poof.

Celestine died after failing to kill a Rhino (she jumped 18" as in last game and charged it, then locked up his Deredeo Dreadnought), but then butchered his backfield Chaos Marines and took the bonus point the rest of the game.

Sisters of Battle pressed forward, ever forward and weathered a storm of fire, taking a pretty fair number of losses but once in position, his aggression turned to horror as the fusilade of Meltaguns and Bolters backed by Mircale dice crumpled his Nurgle Marines.

Exorcists just about killed the Daredeo in two volleys, and then they blasted the last Plague Crawler in the following round. One got eaten by the Daemon Prince but two was enough, as with the Stratagem I totaled 16 shots.

Arco-Flagellents for once were left with nothing to do until the Obliterators showed up. Then they rushed out into the open in their underwear. The Obliterators were kinda forced to try killing the last two Exorcists, and hope the Arcos couldn't reach them after that but... they could. 54 attacks later, there were no Obliterators.

Really, it was Hammer and Anvil Deployment (bad), but with Sisters going first (good).

There just was almost nothing left after 3 rounds. Round 4 would have been a tabling.

Played my first game with the new sisters.

1,000 points vs chaos, neither list was optimized.

My list:


Chaos List


Basically I ran straight at him. He had to grind away at my squads, leaving enough power weapon attacks. Since we were using the deck building style missions from CA 2019, I was able to out score him, despite our roughly equal exchange in casualties. He was rather off-put when the zephyrim and both cannoness managed to cut through both a CSM squad, a havoc squad, and a sorcerer in one turn.
The repentia were killed early on, but that was largely due to poor play on my part as they and a BBS managed to out run their buffs (which I had let fall behind).

The game ended 13 to 9 on points, with just my WL remaining, though killing her would have been even worse for him as I had a "Priority Order: Martyrdom" objective in play.

Quite confused what the entire discussion regarding the "single MD" vs "multiple MD" interpretation is about.

According to the codex, you may perform a single act of faith per phase for the listed types of die rolls (advance, hits, wounds, etc.). Before making a roll for a model or unit with the Acts of Faith ability, you can choose one or more dice from your MD pool instead. Set these dice aside, and roll the rest. If you are rolling for hits for a unit with multiple weapon types, you could use multiple dice for each type of weapon since the ability applies to the entire unit for the entire dice roll (aka the unit's Hit roll).

I don't see how there is any "single MD" interpretation from any part of the codex, so I am curious what I am missing that people are so unsure about.

The only potentially vague ruling imo would be whether performing the additional AoF granted by an ability such as Triumph of Saint Katherine's Icon of the Valorous Heart (which allows you to perform an AoF "even if you have already performed one or more AoF in that phase") counts as using your single AoF for the phase if it is performed first. Personally, I don't think this was how the ability was intended to be designed, and instead counts the the AoF globally as an "additional" AoF, allowing you to still perform your normal AoF for that phase.

Because at the core you roll attacks one at a time. One model rolls to hit, to wound, save, damage. So by the time you roll for 2nd first roll is over. Fast dice rolling is optional rule and can't be used when it affects results like plasma gun in rapid. You can't fast roll 20 plasma shots.

Raw only multiple dice for single roll sisters have is charge roll. Or melta but that would be stupid.

And even on most generous ruling damage you never get multiple. Opponent rolls 1 save, you roll damage(1 roll), he rolls 1 save, you roll damage(2nd roll).

tneva82 wrote:


And even on most generous ruling damage you never get multiple. Opponent rolls 1 save, you roll damage(1 roll), he rolls 1 save, you roll damage(2nd roll).

But if we keep pretending we can, eventually it becomes true, just like replacing keywords with whatever you want in the beta codex!

 Grundz wrote:

tneva82 wrote:


And even on most generous ruling damage you never get multiple. Opponent rolls 1 save, you roll damage(1 roll), he rolls 1 save, you roll damage(2nd roll).

But if we keep pretending we can, eventually it becomes true, just like replacing keywords with whatever you want in the beta codex!

To be fair, it works. Look back at 7th edition. The immolator never had a hatch. Someone sent a FAQ to GW: How many firepoints does the immolator have? They responded with 1.

Someone actually looked at the datasheet that said "Firepoints: None" and went, Hmm.. I wonder how many that is. Let's ask.

tneva82 wrote:
Because at the core you roll attacks one at a time. One model rolls to hit, to wound, save, damage. So by the time you roll for 2nd first roll is over. Fast dice rolling is optional rule and can't be used when it affects results like plasma gun in rapid. You can't fast roll 20 plasma shots.

Raw only multiple dice for single roll sisters have is charge roll. Or melta but that would be stupid.

And even on most generous ruling damage you never get multiple. Opponent rolls 1 save, you roll damage(1 roll), he rolls 1 save, you roll damage(2nd roll).

Ok, ty, this makes sense. The way I read it was that it applied to a model/unit's dice roll(s) for the chosen roll for the phase, but I can see rolling individually screws that up if it doesn't apply as a blanket effect.

tneva82 wrote:
Because at the core you roll attacks one at a time. One model rolls to hit, to wound, save, damage. So by the time you roll for 2nd first roll is over. Fast dice rolling is optional rule and can't be used when it affects results like plasma gun in rapid. You can't fast roll 20 plasma shots.

Except you can because 20 plasma shots meets the criteria for fast rolling

"In order to make several attacks at once, all of the attacks must have the same Ballistic Skill (if it’s a shooting attack) or the same Weapon Skill (if it’s a close combat attack). They must also have the same Strength, Armour Penetration and Damage characteristics, and they must be directed at the same unit. If this is the case, make all of the hit rolls at the same time, then all of the wound rolls."

Unless there was an faq about fast rolling I missed?

Oberron wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Because at the core you roll attacks one at a time. One model rolls to hit, to wound, save, damage. So by the time you roll for 2nd first roll is over. Fast dice rolling is optional rule and can't be used when it affects results like plasma gun in rapid. You can't fast roll 20 plasma shots.

Except you can because 20 plasma shots meets the criteria for fast rolling

"In order to make several attacks at once, all of the attacks must have the same Ballistic Skill (if it’s a shooting attack) or the same Weapon Skill (if it’s a close combat attack). They must also have the same Strength, Armour Penetration and Damage characteristics, and they must be directed at the same unit. If this is the case, make all of the hit rolls at the same time, then all of the wound rolls."

Unless there was an faq about fast rolling I missed?

So you really think you can roll 20 dice and remove 1 plasma gunner per TWO 1's rolled?

Lol no.

So this is less a tactics question and more a reading comprehension question. I finally have had time to dig through the new codex and...I just am having trouble reading the data sheets.

I don't want to copy paste full stats, but for example:
-Battle Sisters Squad is 1 Superior and 4 Sisters. It can ADDITIONALLY take UP TO 5 sisters, or UP TO 10 sisters.

What does this mean? I know it has power level set, but does it mean what it literally says - you can have a squad of 1 superior and 5 battle sisters for +2 power level? or up to 1 superior and 10 sisters?

I dug up my old index and it says "It may contain UP TO 5 ADDITIONAL battle sisters, or UP TO 10 ADDITIONAL battle sisters." Is the new codex just saying that again, but in a barely readable fashion? Because the way they word it the new codex sounds like a hard limit on an 11 strong unit, while the index allowed for up to 15, but I just don't know if my reading comprehension has died.

Also, a lot of the war gear setups make little mental sense to me. Still using Battle Sister Squad as example:
-Superior may have 1 melee weapon, OR she may replace her bolt gun with a melee weapon
-Superior may replace her bolt gun with a ranged weapon
-Superior may replace her bolt pistol with a pistol weapon

The last one makes sense to me just fine, but the first two just seem...confusing to the point of being confusing. So your squad leader can A) have melee weapon with bolt gun obviously, B) REPLACE her bolt gun with a melee weapon (bolt guns cost zero points...what would the point of this be?), C) Not take a melee weapon and replace her bolt gun with a ranged weapon, or D) Take a melee weapon and then replace her bolt gun with a ranged weapon.

Is this correct? And if so, why do they go out of their way to make B an option? I mean bolt guns aren't the hottest weapon out there but for 0 points there is no point in not taking it for the random pot shot. Seems like it is A) Melee set up, B) Melee set up while pointlessly gimping yourself, C) Ranged or Budget option, and D) Going all in.

I'm just trying to parse through what exactly this codex is telling me, as I am honestly having trouble reading it in places. And since most of the datasheets have the same two above formula, it is being an uphill battle for me.

kurhanik wrote:
So this is less a tactics question and more a reading comprehension question. I finally have had time to dig through the new codex and...I just am having trouble reading the data sheets.

I don't want to copy paste full stats, but for example:
-Battle Sisters Squad is 1 Superior and 4 Sisters. It can ADDITIONALLY take UP TO 5 sisters, or UP TO 10 sisters.

What does this mean? I know it has power level set, but does it mean what it literally says - you can have a squad of 1 superior and 5 battle sisters for +2 power level? or up to 1 superior and 10 sisters?

You can have 5 more sisters for 2 PL more than you pay for standard. Or additional 10 for the PL mentioned.

Also, a lot of the war gear setups make little mental sense to me. Still using Battle Sister Squad as example:
-Superior may have 1 melee weapon, OR she may replace her bolt gun with a melee weapon
-Superior may replace her bolt gun with a ranged weapon
-Superior may replace her bolt pistol with a pistol weapon

The last one makes sense to me just fine, but the first two just seem...confusing to the point of being confusing. So your squad leader can A) have melee weapon with bolt gun obviously, B) REPLACE her bolt gun with a melee weapon (bolt guns cost zero points...what would the point of this be?), C) Not take a melee weapon and replace her bolt gun with a ranged weapon, or D) Take a melee weapon and then replace her bolt gun with a ranged weapon.

WYSIWYG most likely. There are models with melee weapon but no bolt gun which GW caters for. But yes for efficiency you will ensure your model with melee weapon has bolter SOMEWHERE.

Of course logically bolter+melee weapon would cost more than bolter or cc weapon but GW has driven points down so much that there's not enough scalability. 1 pts for bolter or chainsword would be too expensive for 9 pts model. GW really, really, really, REALLY needs to like double or triple cost of everything(including game size. So you would be playing 6000 pts but basic sister costs ~27 pts). This way there would be some better scalability especially on the bottom side.