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Okay, looks like you completely destroyed those guys. Were they noobs or had bad lists or something?
Actually I'm curious as to what your list was and what their lists were that gave such one-sided games.
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/7/24, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Imperial Knights: ~2300 | Leagues of Votann: ~1300 | Tyranids: ~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000 | Kruleboyz: ~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: ~700
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2024: 40 | Total models painted in 2025: 24 | Current main painting project: Tomb Kings
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The Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000. It only looks like several bricks crudely gaffer taped to a cricket bat.
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ZergSmasher wrote: Okay, looks like you completely destroyed those guys. Were they noobs or had bad lists or something?
Actually I'm curious as to what your list was and what their lists were that gave such one-sided games.
Sure. First game was a "getting his GK list sorted out" contest. The GK game was more of an ITC lesson and working on his list. So we did three rounds before he conceded. The tabling was well under way.
Last two were experienced. Guys Ive never played before but they seemed to know their stuff.
Salamander was armored up. Couple predators (one a fw variant) play Bray'arth, 3 squads and then hestan, tech piest, venerable and what i think were ironclads. That was his core.
His plan was to smash my tanks to tiny bits round one, and hold his ground until the termies could drop and kill the other. Those dreads were all bad news. Lot of volume of fire in there. So because of the vanguard deploy, i had a long way to slog into unforgiving territory. Round 1 wasnt much. Miracle dice saved my tanks early and then we went to work late. Pretty well dominated the board.
Third game was a really nice blood angel force w the new hotness. Mephiston, contemptor dread, some kind of character dread (Chaplain), predator plus meeeean primaris snd a couple inceptor units. Daredeo dread i never did more then 1 wound to. Scout squad for engineers. Sanguinary gusrd and some fnp buff characters, etc... that firebase oh his was pretty fierce lotta shots so i kept tying it up so it couldnt do its damage.
Note that i forgot my arcos and my missionary at home and had to play without them.
Kryddbov wrote: Can a Sororitas Rhino transport units from a different order?
Ex: can a Valarous Heart rhino transport Bloody Rose units?
Nope. If it's sororita unit(aprt from dialogus or medic) you need order.
What you CAN do though is have say valorous heart rhino carrying bloody rose arco flagelants as flagelants aren't sororita unit so not order locked. Handy if you have flagelants for bloody rose vanguard to fill the elite slots. Bit tougher rhino transport.
Got to use my sisters for the first time a few days ago. Janky little 1000pts list with a mix of stormtroopers/Inquisitor/and VH sisters made from the starter set and some bits and bobs a friend sold me. Fought an Alpha Legion list with lots of marines and the daemon engine melee things with all the tentacles. Lots of fun though, initial impressions
Holy crap repentia are good, especially with proper buffs. I had 2 4 woman squads but with an imagifier, preacher, and the mistress buffing them they hit like a train. If 4 of them do this much damage, can't wait to see what full squads do. Getting the miracle dice from them dying was also good.
Stormtroopers are an awesome backup for sisters and fit fluffwise. They can get plasma the sisters can't and can drop in where ever you need them. Since my sisters were all on foot that was a big deal. Inquisitor didn't do a lot but that was my fault.
VH didn't do much vs CSM, he didn't have much ap 1 or 2, so a lot of the time I just had my 3+ anyways. Tried the smash Canoness, seems good but I want to try other stuff like the invuln buff one, probably be more useful overall.
Lesson learned was I desperately need special and heavy weapons. All my sisters were barebones and it hurt. Same for the seraphim. Even just some inferno pistols for seraphim would've made all the difference.
Other than that, really like how they play, miracle dice seem really good, but I'm sure I missed several good uses for them. They were great for protecting my characters if nothing else and ensuring I could get some clutch plasma pistol shots off. Just need to see how the FAQ rules their usage in the shooting and melee phase. I think I played it wrong to be perfectly honest at a couple of points. Like one point where I burned 3 to guarantee I got a few wounds with my canoness.
'I've played Guard for years, and the best piece of advice is to always utilize the Guard's best special rule: "we roll more dice than you" ' - stormleader
"Sector Imperialis: 25mm and 40mm Round Bases (40+20) 26€ (Including 32 skulls for basing) " GW design philosophy in a nutshell
MrMoustaffa wrote: Holy crap repentia are good, especially with proper buffs. I had 2 4 woman squads but with an imagifier, preacher, and the mistress buffing them they hit like a train. If 4 of them do this much damage, can't wait to see what full squads do. Getting the miracle dice from them dying was also good.
Fully buffed up eats an imperial knight in one go. That's what they can do
Issue will be getting them as unsurprisingly they are prime target sporting just 6++/5++ to protect them. Due to being so hard hitting with no way to make T1 charge and being so soft they are going to be targeted a lot. Against marines with their TFC's ignoring LOS can't even use terrain to hide. Rhino is about mandatory for that reason but even that's not sure way.
Maybe not investing that much buffs could be option. They are fairly cheap unit and do world of hurt without tons of buffs anyway so let them distract enemy. Meanwhile if opponent kill them the support is out of picture as well generally.
I feel like VH isn't nearly as good to build around if you're not against Tournament Marines. There's only 1.5 marine players in my group so VH's value has almost completely comes from the 6+++ rather than the AP
Tau has plenty -2 shooting, orks have plenty of shooting that's not 0 or -3 or better. IG throws around plenty -1/-2.
The one faction which isn't throwing tons of -1/-2 around is necrons who throw either 0 or -4 generally. But necrons are hardly the big thing right now.
tneva82 wrote: Tau has plenty -2 shooting, orks have plenty of shooting that's not 0 or -3 or better. IG throws around plenty -1/-2.
The one faction which isn't throwing tons of -1/-2 around is necrons who throw either 0 or -4 generally. But necrons are hardly the big thing right now.
Basic warriors are -1. Basic Immortals -2.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Thing is usually if infantry is getting hit by -1 or -2 it usually lowish strength high volume so weight of dice carries enough damage through. Maybe its because I've been using VH and MSU? One casualty is more of an issue for MSU VH than if I was fielding units of 10.
Sim-Life wrote: Thing is usually if infantry is getting hit by -1 or -2 it usually lowish strength high volume so weight of dice carries enough damage through. Maybe its because I've been using VH and MSU? One casualty is more of an issue for MSU VH than if I was fielding units of 10.
The storm bolters is cheap so even if I might lose storm bolter or two sooner I still rather than 10 bodies and 4 storm bolters than 10 and 2. Extra firepower compensates(enemy can't kill you if they are dead). Plus less casualties with morale.
Durability wise MSU helps rather than hinders. Now with retributors with multimelta's and maybe BSS squad with meltaguns sure extra bodies are nice to have. But for BSS you want to keep small and numerous guns. Unless you plan to use some stratagem.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/06 20:33:21
ZergSmasher wrote: Okay, looks like you completely destroyed those guys. Were they noobs or had bad lists or something?
Actually I'm curious as to what your list was and what their lists were that gave such one-sided games.
Sure. First game was a "getting his GK list sorted out" contest. The GK game was more of an ITC lesson and working on his list. So we did three rounds before he conceded. The tabling was well under way.
Last two were experienced. Guys Ive never played before but they seemed to know their stuff.
Salamander was armored up. Couple predators (one a fw variant) play Bray'arth, 3 squads and then hestan, tech piest, venerable and what i think were ironclads. That was his core.
His plan was to smash my tanks to tiny bits round one, and hold his ground until the termies could drop and kill the other. Those dreads were all bad news. Lot of volume of fire in there. So because of the vanguard deploy, i had a long way to slog into unforgiving territory. Round 1 wasnt much. Miracle dice saved my tanks early and then we went to work late. Pretty well dominated the board.
Third game was a really nice blood angel force w the new hotness. Mephiston, contemptor dread, some kind of character dread (Chaplain), predator plus meeeean primaris snd a couple inceptor units. Daredeo dread i never did more then 1 wound to. Scout squad for engineers. Sanguinary gusrd and some fnp buff characters, etc... that firebase oh his was pretty fierce lotta shots so i kept tying it up so it couldnt do its damage.
Note that i forgot my arcos and my missionary at home and had to play without them.
Interesting. What lead you to that list over for example a pure brigade or a different split, say for example sticking the rets in the VH detachment and going with a BR seraphim/repentia focused detachment in lue of AS doms/rets?
Ignoring AP on VH is just one of the two major bonuses. Having moving excorists with no penalty to hit even if your opponent stacks modifiers is incredibly powerful and helps us solve one of our worst matchups, Eldar.
With miracle die you're knocking a bird out every turn with just one exo. Conceivably can knock 2 out without issue as well.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/07 01:14:41
ZergSmasher wrote: Okay, looks like you completely destroyed those guys. Were they noobs or had bad lists or something?
Actually I'm curious as to what your list was and what their lists were that gave such one-sided games.
Sure. First game was a "getting his GK list sorted out" contest. The GK game was more of an ITC lesson and working on his list. So we did three rounds before he conceded. The tabling was well under way.
Last two were experienced. Guys Ive never played before but they seemed to know their stuff.
Salamander was armored up. Couple predators (one a fw variant) play Bray'arth, 3 squads and then hestan, tech piest, venerable and what i think were ironclads. That was his core.
His plan was to smash my tanks to tiny bits round one, and hold his ground until the termies could drop and kill the other. Those dreads were all bad news. Lot of volume of fire in there. So because of the vanguard deploy, i had a long way to slog into unforgiving territory. Round 1 wasnt much. Miracle dice saved my tanks early and then we went to work late. Pretty well dominated the board.
Third game was a really nice blood angel force w the new hotness. Mephiston, contemptor dread, some kind of character dread (Chaplain), predator plus meeeean primaris snd a couple inceptor units. Daredeo dread i never did more then 1 wound to. Scout squad for engineers. Sanguinary gusrd and some fnp buff characters, etc... that firebase oh his was pretty fierce lotta shots so i kept tying it up so it couldnt do its damage.
Note that i forgot my arcos and my missionary at home and had to play without them.
Interesting. What lead you to that list over for example a pure brigade or a different split, say for example sticking the rets in the VH detachment and going with a BR seraphim/repentia focused detachment in lue of AS doms/rets?
Dominion can easily get to rapid fire range with their very effective storm bolter strat. Multimeltas easily get to within 18" juice range w their strat if they need to. Argent Shroud is fast and with Miracle dice, can be even faster. Saves all those rhino points. Lot of firepower when you add it to 3 exorcists. Overwhelming anti-tank or multiwound damage output. In the Primaris age, you need a lot of hitting power, and you can only optimize units once, so it makes sense to spread the hurt and not get greedy.
Arco-flagellents are money. 54 attacks does the trick usually so i have the offense without giving up the deadly speed. Seraphim are neat because they can GET THERE and deliver pain. If you can already do that? Its something to think about.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
So I've been tinkering with an army/shopping list. Thinking about Argent Shroud for the zoom-zoom (pure AS for thematics), and doing a battalion, brigade, and fortification
Battalion <Argent Shroud>
HQ Canoness w/ Blade of Admonition (spend 1 CP to give the Argent Shroud trait)
Missionary
Troops 3x10 Battle Sisters with 2 melta, Simulacrum, hand flamer on superior
Brigade <Argent Shroud>
HQ Celestine (warlord)
Canoness w/ power sword and rod
Missionary
Troops 3x5 Sisters with 1 meltagun
3x5 Sisters with 2 storm bolters
Elites Imagifier
Dialogus
3x5 Celestians
Heavy Support 3x10 Retributors, Simulacrum, 2x Armorium Cherubs, 4x multi-meltas
Fast Attack 2x5 Seraphim w/ 2 dual hand flamers
5 Seraphim w/ 2 dual inferno pistols
Battle Sanctum
That's 19 CP and a ton of bodies wielding a lot of meltas. Does it have legs or am I going to want a few more toys at the cost of some sisters?
Battle sanctum is perhaps an auto include when it arrives. People are already arguing its not a ruin. Le sigh. So thats going to be an argument for a minute but i don't see any way around it. Of course this loophole will require text. On a purely technical level, as long as you both agree its a ruin. Or not.
I still am missing why this is a big deal btw. To be clearer, because after re-reading my own post, I think I gave a wrong impression.
The question is... why is not being a ruin going to matter? Is there a rules interaction someone is trying to get around?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/01/07 07:19:19
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Jancoran wrote: Battle sanctum is perhaps an auto include when it arrives. People are already arguing its not a ruin, and so wont give ruin saves. Le sigh. So thats going to be an argument for a minute but i don't see any way around it. Of course this loophole will require text. On a purely technical level, as long as you both agree its a ruin, it is. It can't be "nothing". So... interesting problem.
What do you mean it won't give "ruin" saves? It has the exact same text that ruins have.
It may not be a auto include but it's very close
alextroy wrote: The Battle Sanctum is not a Ruin, it is a Adeptus Minstorum Structure.
What's an Adeptus Minstorum Structure you ask? A structure that has rules that match those of Ruins, but isn't Ruins.
This basically
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/07 05:00:27
It's easy to assume that people arguing an interpretation you disagree with are just looking for an advantage for themselves... But it's quite often not the case.
One thing it not being ruin means though not something GW factored but with house rules 1st floor of ruins blocking LOS this one won't. Though probably better that way. Own los blocking terrain you could bring could likely be bit too much. It's already useful piece of terrain.
Rihgu wrote: So I've been tinkering with an army/shopping list. Thinking about Argent Shroud for the zoom-zoom (pure AS for thematics), and doing a battalion, brigade, and fortification
Spoiler:
Battalion <Argent Shroud>
HQ Canoness w/ Blade of Admonition (spend 1 CP to give the Argent Shroud trait)
Missionary
Troops 3x10 Battle Sisters with 2 melta, Simulacrum, hand flamer on superior
Brigade <Argent Shroud>
HQ Celestine (warlord)
Canoness w/ power sword and rod
Missionary
Troops 3x5 Sisters with 1 meltagun
3x5 Sisters with 2 storm bolters
Elites Imagifier
Dialogus
3x5 Celestians
Heavy Support 3x10 Retributors, Simulacrum, 2x Armorium Cherubs, 4x multi-meltas
Fast Attack 2x5 Seraphim w/ 2 dual hand flamers
5 Seraphim w/ 2 dual inferno pistols
Battle Sanctum
That's 19 CP and a ton of bodies wielding a lot of meltas. Does it have legs or am I going to want a few more toys at the cost of some sisters?
I'd take a third bare bones Canoness over Celestine and use those points on a second Blessed Blade rather than Power Sword and a few more toys. The Canoness can hide in the Battle Sanctum with the Becon(and Litanies) of Faith, buffing the Exorcists with their reroll 1s
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/01/07 08:03:58
I corrected my post because I think i was unclear. See above.
The argument seems imminent, but Im not detecting why. Some people have made a POINT of telling me it doesnt count as a ruin.... and it seems to me there's a motive behind doing that; perhaps some faq or rule interaction they are going to argue BECAUSE its not a ruin.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote: One thing it not being ruin means though not something GW factored but with house rules 1st floor of ruins blocking LOS this one won't. Though probably better that way. Own los blocking terrain you could bring could likely be bit too much. It's already useful piece of terrain.
Ooooh. Thaaaaats what this is about. Ok. That solves it. LOS... can be drawn through its gaps. Huh. Well...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/01/07 07:24:35
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
Jancoran wrote: I corrected my post because I think i was unclear. See above.
The argument seems imminent, but Im not detecting why. Some people have made a POINT of telling me it doesnt count as a ruin.... and it seems to me there's a motive behind doing that; perhaps some faq or rule interaction they are going to argue BECAUSE its not a ruin.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote: One thing it not being ruin means though not something GW factored but with house rules 1st floor of ruins blocking LOS this one won't. Though probably better that way. Own los blocking terrain you could bring could likely be bit too much. It's already useful piece of terrain.
Ooooh. Thaaaaats what this is about. Ok. That solves it. LOS... can be drawn through its gaps. Huh. Well...
Yep. As it's specifically not ruin then any rule that says "ruins block LOS 1st floor regardless of gaps" would not apply to it unless specifically agreed. Obviously this is not something GW really is concerned with as it's house rule but does have impact and in this case I think it's appropriate. Ability to block LOS blocking terrain freely during deployment would be pretty darn good and possible GW even thought it shouldn't block so well so made it and trying to circumvene it by rule (or like I got suggested "close up windows") would be feel similar to modeling vehicles and models to block LOS when they don't normally.
The piece is useful enough as it is(rare for terrain) that I can live without los blocking.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/07 07:51:51
Jancoran wrote: I corrected my post because I think i was unclear. See above.
The argument seems imminent, but Im not detecting why. Some people have made a POINT of telling me it doesnt count as a ruin.... and it seems to me there's a motive behind doing that; perhaps some faq or rule interaction they are going to argue BECAUSE its not a ruin.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
tneva82 wrote: One thing it not being ruin means though not something GW factored but with house rules 1st floor of ruins blocking LOS this one won't. Though probably better that way. Own los blocking terrain you could bring could likely be bit too much. It's already useful piece of terrain.
Ooooh. Thaaaaats what this is about. Ok. That solves it. LOS... can be drawn through its gaps. Huh. Well...
Yep. As it's specifically not ruin then any rule that says "ruins block LOS 1st floor regardless of gaps" would not apply to it unless specifically agreed. Obviously this is not something GW really is concerned with as it's house rule but does have impact and in this case I think it's appropriate. Ability to block LOS blocking terrain freely during deployment would be pretty darn good and possible GW even thought it shouldn't block so well so made it and trying to circumvene it by rule (or like I got suggested "close up windows") would be feel similar to modeling vehicles and models to block LOS when they don't normally.
The piece is useful enough as it is(rare for terrain) that I can live without los blocking.
Let's be very, very clear here.
The first floor of a ruin blocking line of sight is not a rule in 40k. It is a tournament house rule. Nothing more.
How it interacts with this unit will need to be handled by the relevant TO in whatever tournament you play in. Do not expect a unified approach here. Verify.
~16000 Astra Militarum: 
~1200 | Imperial Knights: 
~2300 | Leagues of Votann: 
~1300 | Tyranids: 
~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: 
~5000 | Kruleboyz: 
~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: 
~700
