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Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




As far as I know, you do. The rule is to prevent someone using, for example, Iron Hands rules when the army visually makes you think Dark Angels because they're all green.

IIRC, it also prevents a player from showing up with an army painted like a known Ultramarines successor from using successor tactics - the force must use the Ultramarines tactic.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/21 14:39:59


 
   
Made in us
Ollanius Pius - Savior of the Emperor






Gathering the Informations.

Taikishi wrote:
As far as I know, you do. The rule is to prevent someone using, for example, Iron Hands rules when the army visually makes you think Dark Angels because they're all green.

It's not strictly "paint" related from the way it has been explained. If you have a fully robed army, with bone-colored Terminators and black painted bikers with green infantry...you're Dark Angels, unless you've done extensive work to make it clear that it's not Dark Angels via iconography or some color substitutions.

Again though, it's strictly tied to Warhammer World's Tournaments. It seems to be in response to some of the last minute army hopping that has happened at some of their events.
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

Okay, that's a little less worrisome.

Cause my original minis had blue sleeves and silver armor, and I was planning on updating that to a less ugly combination but keeping the blue cloth.

The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in ca
Preacher of the Emperor






 Melissia wrote:
Okay, that's a little less worrisome.

Cause my original minis had blue sleeves and silver armor, and I was planning on updating that to a less ugly combination but keeping the blue cloth.


Order of the Blue Robe?


   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




tneva82 wrote:
If you have resources left in abundance you aren't making use of them. You fixate just on the extreme passes. 12" in charges? I use them for 7" charges. For 3+/4+(particularly 4+) to wound rolls. I use to ensure there's no chance of dying with my 3 3+ saves with 3w left on character by passing one wound. Never failed 4+ to wound with meltagun? Never failed 2+ save roll? I guess you go "okay didnt' matter" when you fail your your 2+ save roll. Or that 7" charge failed? Who cares. You don't care about that charge right?


I agree. For years I've heard nothing but complaints about how 40K is TOO random and now some Sisters players are saying MD are a wasted mechanic because they have TOO many MD left over at games end or have so many that they don't know what to do with them all. A mechanic that reduces or even eliminates randomness in a game that is 90% random and 10% tactics seems like just what most players would like.

I would love guaranteed DR saves for my DG or guaranteed Smites going off from my Lords of Change.

I look at MD like CP. If you end a game with even 1 CP left you are doing it wrong. That's my 2 cents.
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




 Melissia wrote:
Okay, that's a little less worrisome.

Cause my original minis had blue sleeves and silver armor, and I was planning on updating that to a less ugly combination but keeping the blue cloth.


It's totally irrelevant for non-marine armies.

What percent of 40k players do you think honestly even know what Argent Shroud's paint scheme even is? I would guess less than 1%.


 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




To be fair, 99% of what players see from GW in any official capacity is Martyred Lady so I wouldn't expect them to know the schemes of the other five major Orders Militant.
   
Made in us
Pious Palatine




jivardi wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
If you have resources left in abundance you aren't making use of them. You fixate just on the extreme passes. 12" in charges? I use them for 7" charges. For 3+/4+(particularly 4+) to wound rolls. I use to ensure there's no chance of dying with my 3 3+ saves with 3w left on character by passing one wound. Never failed 4+ to wound with meltagun? Never failed 2+ save roll? I guess you go "okay didnt' matter" when you fail your your 2+ save roll. Or that 7" charge failed? Who cares. You don't care about that charge right?


I agree. For years I've heard nothing but complaints about how 40K is TOO random and now some Sisters players are saying MD are a wasted mechanic because they have TOO many MD left over at games end or have so many that they don't know what to do with them all. A mechanic that reduces or even eliminates randomness in a game that is 90% random and 10% tactics seems like just what most players would like.

I would love guaranteed DR saves for my DG or guaranteed Smites going off from my Lords of Change.

I look at MD like CP. If you end a game with even 1 CP left you are doing it wrong. That's my 2 cents.



It's the 'max potion' problem. You don't want to use your dice because what if I can get more value out of them later through DI or the raise a diceroll strat. Or even just not using a 3 because you might just roll a 5.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Taikishi wrote:
To be fair, 99% of what players see from GW in any official capacity is Martyred Lady so I wouldn't expect them to know the schemes of the other five major Orders Militant.


It's the same for every non-marine army. Not many people even know what all 6 of the subfactions for all the armies are, let alone what paint schemes they use.

There's a reason the examples used are always green ultramarines and not Purple Jormungangr.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/21 19:39:37



 
   
Made in ca
Preacher of the Emperor






In this particular scenario it doesn't matter what percentage of 40k players know. Since we're specifically talking about Warhammer World, what matters is what the TOs of Warhammer World know and what they feel like enforcing.

That said, I'm totally ignorant about how they run things outside of the space marines stuff, if someone shows up with pristine white T'au are they unable to run them as Farsight Enclave?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Of course, an original colour scheme (even a derivative one) should be completely safe from such considerations.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/21 19:53:44


   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





Denver, CO, USA

A few pages ago I raised the question of crafting a deck of Tactical Objectives for the new CA 2019 "Schemes of War" missions. You need a minimum of 18 cards in your deck, five in your hand, and three in play on most turns, and the missions have mostly to do with manipulating your cards or your opponent's... so clearly inspired by tournament formats where players choose objectives that favor their army build.

Having played only one of these new scenarios, I think I'm on the right track... here's my current thinking.
Spoiler:
A core selection of twenty-two cards for every game:

12 - Armor of Contempt (pass a SoF or DtW test)
14 - Trust in the Emperor (gain 3 or 6 Miracle Dice this turn)
15 - The Blood of Martyrs (1 if a Sororitas unit is destroyed, 3 if a Character)
16 - Leap of Faith (perform Acts of Faith: 1 for 1, d3 for 3, d3+3 for 6)
21-26 - Secure Objectives 1-6 (control objective marker X at end of turn)
31-36 - Defend Objectives 1-6 (control an objective for two consecutive turns)
42 - Behind Enemy Lines (enter enemy DZ)
43 - Hold the Line (stay in your DZ)
45 - Supremacy (control any 3)
51 - Overwhelming Firepower (kill things in Shooting phase)
52 - Blood and Guts (kill things in Fight phase)
53 - No Prisoners (destroy enemy units, preferably lots)

Plus a six-card sidebar that is contingent on the opposing force:

11 - Slay the Heretic (kill a Character with a Ministorum unit)
61 - Kingslayer (extra for killing Warlord)
62 - Witch Hunter (kill a psyker)
63 - Scour the Skies (kill a flier)
64 - Assassinate (kill Characters, preferably lots)
65 - Big Game Hunter (kill big things)

My guiding principle was the second tier of points... lots of things are worth 1 VP, and a handful are worth 1 or 1d3 if a second condition is met, 1d3+3 or 1d6 if a further condition is met. I chose the ones with second-tier scoring that seemed manageable, mostly killing multiples of things. Cards that were only worth 1 VP or whose second tier looked like a bit of long shot stayed in the box. I also dumped things that didn't fit my build, like cards that required my Warlord or Exorcists to leave the deployment zone. Finally I set aside a sidebar to depend on the opponent's list... once I've seen how many fliers, big vehicles, or squishy characters they bring, I'll roll a few of those in. Out of 36 cards, I'll run between 22 and 28 in each game. Thoughts and insights most welcome...

   
Made in ie
Battleship Captain





At first I had the same problem but it gets overcome in time when you start to realise that using the 6 for a damage roll NOW is better than hoping for the best then regretting it later when it's too late because the tank you failed to bracket turn 1 just bracketed your Exo because of it. I'm finding its better to burn miracle dice than horde them because by mid-game you have less stuff that can actually use them.

This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/01/21 20:45:49



 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Taikishi wrote:

3+ save becomes 6+ = 2 2/9 failed saves


Except with inv saves pretty much mandatory for anything worth saying even remotely survivable even -3 is overkill. There's reason why -2 is generally the sweet spot with -3 coming to play on the odd 2+/5++ units. Same reason why valorous heart is so bloody good. Everybody is fielding tons of -2 shots because everybody and kitchen sink is fielding inv saves.

If you are having use for the -3 odds are you didn't want to even target the unit in the first place.

In other news got my first game with pure sister army vs tau. Opponent probably didn't have that optimal tournament list and was rather good matchup for valorous heart. Only -3 he had was some h2h weapon(lol wut?). Not even sure did he have any -2 attacks either...Tons of -1 attacks though. 2 riptides with burst cannons and 2x4 crisis suits throwing in 36 S8 -1 Dd3 shots.

My ~100 sisters just weathered the attacks. Kept out of 15" range over which firepower isn't that bad. Used MD's to kill off riptide, odd saves passed here and there, 11" charge, inv save passed. Opponent was getting miffed at them and my "invulnerable saves" as he called when I was saving on 2+ or 3+ everything he had He seriously underestimated firepower he needed to kill stuff. Finally on 3rd turn when second crisis suit unit fired at penitent engine #2 he said he learned from mistake and fired whopping 24 shots at it. Well that did kill it!

T4 I got the leap of faith(score more vp the more acts of faith you use) and with plenty of banners and MD cherubs(largely with this card in mind!) I got easy 5 pts putting me to 20-4 lead and with time's coming up and his army basically being 2 squads of firewarriors, couple minor characters, riptide and 2 solo crisis suits facing heavy bolter retributions, celestine, celestians, another sister squad and canoness we called it the game.

Damn game took long time though...Need to sharpen up my game with less oomphing and aamphing.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
jivardi wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
If you have resources left in abundance you aren't making use of them. You fixate just on the extreme passes. 12" in charges? I use them for 7" charges. For 3+/4+(particularly 4+) to wound rolls. I use to ensure there's no chance of dying with my 3 3+ saves with 3w left on character by passing one wound. Never failed 4+ to wound with meltagun? Never failed 2+ save roll? I guess you go "okay didnt' matter" when you fail your your 2+ save roll. Or that 7" charge failed? Who cares. You don't care about that charge right?


I agree. For years I've heard nothing but complaints about how 40K is TOO random and now some Sisters players are saying MD are a wasted mechanic because they have TOO many MD left over at games end or have so many that they don't know what to do with them all. A mechanic that reduces or even eliminates randomness in a game that is 90% random and 10% tactics seems like just what most players would like.

I would love guaranteed DR saves for my DG or guaranteed Smites going off from my Lords of Change.

I look at MD like CP. If you end a game with even 1 CP left you are doing it wrong. That's my 2 cents.


I might just have saved my canoness with one of the 2's the game above. I ended up losing all but 1 wound. Imagine I had not MD'ed one of the saves there would have been that tad under 1/6 odds of dying...

And of course there's that handy maelstrom card that you can score whopping 5 vp's. I try to keep couple MD's in spare just in case I get that! Even 3 VP from doing 3 acts can be helpful.

I was actually having bit hard as I was rolling too extremes. 1's or 5+. The 5+ are bit annoying to spend when you need 3 or 4 to wound.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/21 21:10:20


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Regular Dakkanaut




 Sim-Life wrote:
At first I had the same problem but it gets overcome in time when you start to realise that using the 6 for a damage roll NOW is better than hoping for the best then regretting it later when it's too late because the tank you failed to bracket turn 1 just bracketed your Exo because of it. I'm finding its better to burn miracle dice than horde them because by mid-game you have less stuff that can actually use them.


Exactly. You generate more as game goes on either by killing or being killed but if a large portion of your Sisters army is gone or your opponents army is largely gone what good are miracle dice?

Given how easily they are generated I don't see the point in being stingy. I cringe whenever I watch batreps featuring Sisters and the Sisters player has 8 MD on turn 4 and then the entire turn they don't use a single MD but keep rolling 1's to hit or 1's for wound rolls or FNP saves. I know sometimes a player might forget they have MD at all but unless you set them on the table behind you they should be within LOS of you how would you forget you have them?

Sure, if you have Simulacrums everywhere allowing to make multiple AoF per turn I could see how you could burn through them quickly if not careful. In that case just don't be stupid with them. Like starting a game with 13 CP and having 0 CP by turn 3.

   
Made in gb
Mighty Vampire Count






UK

Def getting one of those special Mircale dice trays to help me remember

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

"Unimaginably ancient xenos artefact somewhere on the planet, hive fleet poised above our heads, hidden 'stealer broods making an early start....and now a bloody Chaos cult crawling out of the woodwork just in case we were bored. Welcome to my world, Ciaphas."
Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos

"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001

www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

A Bloody Road - my Warhammer Fantasy Fiction 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Mr Morden wrote:
Def getting one of those special Mircale dice trays to help me remember


They are helpful for sure. Been glad I spent money to get one even though shipping from US was pricier than tray itself!

Also sister dice are nice for this purpose and not getting mixed easily

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Stealthy Warhound Titan Princeps






I see a lot of talk of Valorous Heart and Bloody Rose but it seems like nobody talks about Argent Shroud any more. Did that order turn out to be a competitive dud?

I'm on a podcast about (video) game design:
https://anchor.fm/makethatgame

And I also stream tabletop painting/playing Mon&Thurs 8PM EST
https://twitch.tv/tableitgaming
And make YouTube videos for that sometimes!
https://www.youtube.com/@tableitgaming 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Good question. It's been one I have been eyeballing but with just 1 proper game(the 4 with 2 starter set contents as soup part wasn't really proper test with like over half the sister goodies out of use...) so haven't had chance to use it.

Today though I would have loved to field them instead. Ignoring -2 was pointless as he had no -2 that I could see, 6+++ just delayed one retributor model dying for another unit to shoot and range was bit of issue. Valorous heart was basically "who cares" in this game. Argent shroud meanwhile would have been amazing...

Numarine meta is shroud's biggest weakness I think though. That -2 is so sweet vs numarines.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/21 22:31:34


2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Preacher of the Emperor





Denver, CO, USA

Rihgu wrote:
I see a lot of talk of Valorous Heart and Bloody Rose but it seems like nobody talks about Argent Shroud any more. Did that order turn out to be a competitive dud?


I'll eventually try them in a non-mechanized heavy/special weapon spam force... just run fancy guns into range and let the dice fly. Got the movement trays and everything... but no, I haven't tried them yet. I'd say they're definitely top three, and maybe better than the third spot with some builds.

   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Ok, so I have been keeping up with this thread and now I‘ve got a few questions if you folks don’t mind me asking?

Before hand, I have my own scheme of black armor, bone or cream colored habits. I also have a copy of the limited box set and I am drawn toward either Valorous Heart or Ebon Chalice. I’d like to stick to mono chambers, probably stick with Valorous Heart...

With that in mind here are some questions,

What should I do with the Battle sister with flame thrower? I like the model, but I see flamers are not the best, so I was wondering do I make a throw away Squad with another flamer? Also what to do with the battle standard miniature? Sorry I forgot the actual name of the item she has.

Speaking of Battle sister squads, what is the best size of squad to run my sisters? I saw someone earlier say that you’d want to run larger squads with Valorous Heart and I was wonder what size?

With the Valorous Heart, can I still use the sister repentia, arco flagellants and the penitent engine? Again I’d like to use what I have and build off from it but I’d like to try to get my monies worth.

With Valorous Heart can I run St Katherine’s Shrine? I know it’s not super competitive but I’d really like to get it as a center piece of the army.

Overall if I can use the box set and add in St Katherine and some exorcist what else should I get? Overall I’m shooting for a 1500 point army to start with.

Thanks for your help!
   
Made in us
Steadfast Grey Hunter





 Chaplain Pallantide wrote:
What should I do with the Battle sister with flame thrower? I like the model, but I see flamers are not the best, so I was wondering do I make a throw away Squad with another flamer? Also what to do with the battle standard miniature? Sorry I forgot the actual name of the item she has.

Speaking of Battle sister squads, what is the best size of squad to run my sisters? I saw someone earlier say that you’d want to run larger squads with Valorous Heart and I was wonder what size?

With the Valorous Heart, can I still use the sister repentia, arco flagellants and the penitent engine? Again I’d like to use what I have and build off from it but I’d like to try to get my monies worth.

With Valorous Heart can I run St Katherine’s Shrine? I know it’s not super competitive but I’d really like to get it as a center piece of the army.

Overall if I can use the box set and add in St Katherine and some exorcist what else should I get? Overall I’m shooting for a 1500 point army to start with.

Thanks for your help!

The flamer can be fairly easily modified to look like a melta sister. You'll want to clip the barrel off (replacing it with a melta barrel) and the canister at bottom, the latter of which you can bisect laterally to adhere to the side of the weapon. Look at a normal melta gun to get an idea of what you're looking to emulate.

The simulacrum imperialis sister is something you're going to want from time to time, depending on squad. Assemble her as is would be your best plan.

All units in the core set can be used in any sisters army. Note that penitent engines are NOT ecclesiarchy battle conclave units and thus do not conflict with the arco flagellants in an army lacking a priest. That said, units lacking the order keyword will not benefit from your order's conviction, but that's ok. Just something to remember. Repentia, by the by, do possess the order keyword and thus can benefit from the usual stuff. Stick em in a rhino and ram them at your opponent!

Best size for sisters unit depends on a lot of factors. I'm not sure there's a clear consensus at the moment.

You can run the Triumph of Saint Katherine in any sororitas army, regardless of order. It lacks the order keyword, and thus gains no benefit from your conviction, but is otherwise fine. If you like it, run it.

You're going to want more sisters. Enough to fill out at least two battalions, if not a battalion and brigade. At 1500 points, you will want to aim for a battalion plus either a second battalion or a specialist detachment (supreme command, outrider, spearhead, or vanguard) That means running at minimum 3x5 sisters plus your HQ units. Grab up two of the basic sisters boxes, plus maybe two to four of the retributor boxes for a good start. Expand from there.

Ultimately, you're best served cracking open the codex and Battlescribe/a calculator and figuring out your 1500 point army list before buying anything else.
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





Rihgu wrote:
I see a lot of talk of Valorous Heart and Bloody Rose but it seems like nobody talks about Argent Shroud any more. Did that order turn out to be a competitive dud?


I have no idea. I've been using Bloody Rose all edition, so I just didn't get around to playing Argent Shroud, and Valorous Heart is super useful in the meta.

Argent Shroud is unexciting. It's a good ability, but it's not exactly the most exciting one in the codex. It's also not top in warlord trait, relic, and stratagem.

Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Chaplain Pallantide wrote:
What should I do with the Battle sister with flame thrower? I like the model, but I see flamers are not the best, so I was wondering do I make a throw away Squad with another flamer? Also what to do with the battle standard miniature? Sorry I forgot the actual name of the item she has.


Just make spare flamer and use it for more casual games? It's 1 unit so it's not game breaking and there are times it's handy. I found it useful anyway when clearing some genestealers! Standard you can sprinkle around in units for more acts of faith. Particularly useful wth maelstrom and leap of faith card. Couple of those and getting 3+d3 vp is quite possible!

Speaking of Battle sister squads, what is the best size of squad to run my sisters? I saw someone earlier say that you’d want to run larger squads with Valorous Heart and I was wonder what size?


With storm bolter squads 5 works nicely. Melta squads you could consider running with few extra bodies. 10+ generally if you have the order that ignores morale casualties beyond 1 or stratagem. Order of my martyred lady could use with their order bonus though issue is not losing entire squad in one go.

With the Valorous Heart, can I still use the sister repentia, arco flagellants and the penitent engine? Again I’d like to use what I have and build off from it but I’d like to try to get my monies worth.


Yes though repentia suffer from VH order bonus being 99.99% useless. 7+/6++ save so you don't benefit from AP ignoring(unless there's some +2 cover bonus thingie they can get...that's why I didn't say 100% and covered my bases ) and 6+++ is useless as they have 5++ natively. Well unless you WANT for some tactical reason them to die so can opt to take 6+++ instead(again covering my bases with that 99.99% )

Mind you they still have done me proud in 2/5 games. In other 3 they got shot off board before reaching anything but rhino would help. They don't NEED bloody rose to be good. That just turns them to even nastier with extra attack.

With Valorous Heart can I run St Katherine’s Shrine? I know it’s not super competitive but I’d really like to get it as a center piece of the army.


Yep.


Overall if I can use the box set and add in St Katherine and some exorcist what else should I get? Overall I’m shooting for a 1500 point army to start with.


I would say 3 boxes of basic sisters and 2 retributors would make good start. You would have then 40 basic girls + 10 retributors. 4 multi melta, 4 heavy bolter(or flamer), 6x5 sisters for double battalion and 10 extra bodies to bulk out mainly retributors(particularly multi melta one) against casualties.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in au
Calm Celestian




jivardi wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
If you have resources left in abundance you aren't making use of them. You fixate just on the extreme passes. 12" in charges? I use them for 7" charges. For 3+/4+(particularly 4+) to wound rolls. I use to ensure there's no chance of dying with my 3 3+ saves with 3w left on character by passing one wound. Never failed 4+ to wound with meltagun? Never failed 2+ save roll? I guess you go "okay didnt' matter" when you fail your your 2+ save roll. Or that 7" charge failed? Who cares. You don't care about that charge right?


I agree. For years I've heard nothing but complaints about how 40K is TOO random and now some Sisters players are saying MD are a wasted mechanic because they have TOO many MD left over at games end or have so many that they don't know what to do with them all. A mechanic that reduces or even eliminates randomness in a game that is 90% random and 10% tactics seems like just what most players would like.

I would love guaranteed DR saves for my DG or guaranteed Smites going off from my Lords of Change.

I look at MD like CP. If you end a game with even 1 CP left you are doing it wrong. That's my 2 cents.
Here's the thing, Sisters don't get that. We don't have psykers and wound ignoring abilities can't use AoFs.

We overcome the random by volume of fire. We favour redundancy in all our (limited) options so picking a way to use one effectively largely feels pointless. There are times when it's obviously not pointless but the number of dice you generate should out number the rolls you want to use them on.

   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





Lammia wrote:
Here's the thing, Sisters don't get that. We don't have psykers and wound ignoring abilities can't use AoFs.

We overcome the random by volume of fire. We favour redundancy in all our (limited) options so picking a way to use one effectively largely feels pointless. There are times when it's obviously not pointless but the number of dice you generate should out number the rolls you want to use them on.


Sisters have armour saves. And inv saves. And single shot weapons(*cough coughh*melta gun*couch cough*multi melta*couch couch*). And even exorcist fires just 3d3 shots. Getting 3-4 hits isn't that bad. Quaranteeing 1 wound from there is usefull.

Again you are just concentrating on hail mary long pass events forgeting steady boost thorough turn.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Consigned to the Grim Darkness





USA

 Captain Joystick wrote:
In this particular scenario it doesn't matter what percentage of 40k players know. Since we're specifically talking about Warhammer World, what matters is what the TOs of Warhammer World know and what they feel like enforcing.
Yeah, that's why I was worried. Tournament organizers do not have a particularly great history of being reasonable and consistent, or of being flexible unless it's someone they already personally like.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:
Rihgu wrote:
I see a lot of talk of Valorous Heart and Bloody Rose but it seems like nobody talks about Argent Shroud any more. Did that order turn out to be a competitive dud?
I have no idea. I've been using Bloody Rose all edition, so I just didn't get around to playing Argent Shroud, and Valorous Heart is super useful in the meta.
Same here.

A Beneficence canoness is everything I could have asked for for an assault canoness other than a jump pack.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/22 14:14:22


The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
-- Adam Serwer
My blog
 
   
Made in us
Dakka Veteran






Thanks for the replies, I will take the advice in hand and hopefully hammer out a list tomorrow.
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





tneva82 wrote:
Lammia wrote:
Here's the thing, Sisters don't get that. We don't have psykers and wound ignoring abilities can't use AoFs.

We overcome the random by volume of fire. We favour redundancy in all our (limited) options so picking a way to use one effectively largely feels pointless. There are times when it's obviously not pointless but the number of dice you generate should out number the rolls you want to use them on.


Sisters have armour saves. And inv saves. And single shot weapons(*cough coughh*melta gun*couch cough*multi melta*couch couch*). And even exorcist fires just 3d3 shots. Getting 3-4 hits isn't that bad. Quaranteeing 1 wound from there is usefull.

Again you are just concentrating on hail mary long pass events forgeting steady boost thorough turn.


I mean, it doesn't feel like a steady boost, and arguably isn't one at all, when you replace one dice out of 4 and one still misses or fails.

It's not about passing one armor save out of 4, it's about not failing one out of 4.

With only one roll to be replaced per phase, it feels like it would be much better to re-actively replace rolls. I don't care if I made one out of 4 meltaguns hit/wound if the unit gets less than 3 or 4 or so total wounds.

Mostly, I've been expending the rolls for damage results, charges, morale, and resurrecting dead canonesses. I use them for saves when there's a situation where passing the one ensures that someone/something won't die. I basically never use them for hit/wound rolls, because that also means I won't be able to use it for damage later in the turn.


Probabilistically:
(4*2/3)*(1/2)*3.5 = 4.66 mean assessed damage to the target
(3*2/3+1)*(1/2)*3.5 = 5.25 mean assessed damage to the target
By comparison ((4*2/3)*(1/2)-1)*3.5+6 = 7.17 mean assessed damage to the target

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/01/22 17:22:47


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
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Tacoma, WA, USA

If you aren't using most of your Miracle Dice, you are either:

1. Generating more than you need
2. Need to purchase upgrades to allow you to use more
3. Need to be more liberal as to when you use them

How often do you actually successfully use them on Damage Rolls? As you say, you don't use them on Hit or Wound Rolls because you are saving for the possibility to use on a Damage Roll. If you are saving up for a Damage Roll that never happens you've wasted the opportunity to get some damage in for the possibility to get lots of damage in.
   
Made in fi
Locked in the Tower of Amareo





 Inquisitor Lord Katherine wrote:

Mostly, I've been expending the rolls for damage results, charges, morale, and resurrecting dead canonesses. I use them for saves when there's a situation where passing the one ensures that someone/something won't die. I basically never use them for hit/wound rolls, because that also means I won't be able to use it for damage later in the turn.

t


If you don't use them no point complaining they don't do anything then. You have option to use them but don't.

And most units don't have 4 meltas. Troop unit can get max 3 and that's not neccessarily even optimal.

2024 painted/bought: 109/109 
   
Made in us
Monster-Slaying Daemonhunter





 alextroy wrote:
If you aren't using most of your Miracle Dice, you are either:

1. Generating more than you need
2. Need to purchase upgrades to allow you to use more
3. Need to be more liberal as to when you use them

How often do you actually successfully use them on Damage Rolls? As you say, you don't use them on Hit or Wound Rolls because you are saving for the possibility to use on a Damage Roll. If you are saving up for a Damage Roll that never happens you've wasted the opportunity to get some damage in for the possibility to get lots of damage in.


If I assess literally 0 meltagun or exorcist damage rolls in a turn, then either my enemy is out of targets and I have no need for them or the miracle dice, or I've definitely lost the game and making one of the meltaguns hit wouldn't have made anything like a difference.

It's also 1 roll replacement per army per phase. It would be another thing if it was any number per army per phase, but with 1 roll replacement per army per phase that's just not a lot of influence on the course of the game. I make like 25 shots per turn that are either from Exorcists or Meltaguns.
There's like the fairly basic principle that the fewer of something you make, the more significant locking it in is, which is, IMO a good reason to use the 1 per army per phase on a damage roll instead of a hit roll.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/22 17:57:31


Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades! 
   
 
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