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tneva82 wrote:

Lammia wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
That's what I was thinking, that 6 immolaters wouldnt distract enough for the 3 exorcists but that's 12 multimelta shots at 24" that are not getting targeted because the exorcists are distracting. I have never felt multimeltas need to get within 12" to be effective (obviously they are better when they are but a str 8 ap-4 d6 shot is still a str 8 AP-4 d6 shot.)

But other than immolaters with multimeltas what are our anti tank options? Dominions with melta guns? Retributers with multi meltas? Seraphim with inferno pistols? Mortifiers with saws? That seems to be about it to me.

Repentia, Pen. Engine/Mortifier, MM Rets and BSS Combi-Melta are the popular choices with an honorable mention to Inferno Serephim and a nod to Zephyrim

Walkers aren't really at option as such. They are distraction carnlfex. Even the tougher variant of penitent engine dies when given evil stare let alone actual firepower. Best at role they serve eating up few shots away from exorcists due to rule of 3. And seeing how hard reaching combat is less than 4 damage(even less with mortifier) isn't all that hot result. And even less if you take flails which is more flexible weapon

They hit hard enough if they get there though and at a little over 50 ppm, I'd rather they get shot than Exos.

Lammia wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Lammia wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
That's what I was thinking, that 6 immolaters wouldnt distract enough for the 3 exorcists but that's 12 multimelta shots at 24" that are not getting targeted because the exorcists are distracting. I have never felt multimeltas need to get within 12" to be effective (obviously they are better when they are but a str 8 ap-4 d6 shot is still a str 8 AP-4 d6 shot.)

But other than immolaters with multimeltas what are our anti tank options? Dominions with melta guns? Retributers with multi meltas? Seraphim with inferno pistols? Mortifiers with saws? That seems to be about it to me.

Repentia, Pen. Engine/Mortifier, MM Rets and BSS Combi-Melta are the popular choices with an honorable mention to Inferno Serephim and a nod to Zephyrim

Walkers aren't really at option as such. They are distraction carnlfex. Even the tougher variant of penitent engine dies when given evil stare let alone actual firepower. Best at role they serve eating up few shots away from exorcists due to rule of 3. And seeing how hard reaching combat is less than 4 damage(even less with mortifier) isn't all that hot result. And even less if you take flails which is more flexible weapon

They hit hard enough if they get there though and at a little over 50 ppm, I'd rather they get shot than Exos.

With saws penitent engine deals less than 4 damage. Mortifier even less. And the thing is "to hit you need to be alive". They die when given evil stare. They aren't there to kill anything. Just soak some firepower. If you could take more than 3 exorcists more of them would be better AT. Walkers for AT are just to lure enemy to shoot at them rather than exorcists. 3,12 per penitent engine(less with mortifier) vs leman russ isn't that hot. And that's with the saw which is in general worse weapon than flail. So 3.12 against ideal target on the more choppy version.

keep in mind Pengines can be deployed in groups. the way to sue them is to take 2 or 3 of them, toss em at your enemy draw some fire from your more fragile stuff, and when they hit into close combat shread whatever you tossed em at. Not only are they a distraction carnifex, that's basicly their in universe job as well

Yeah 2 or 3 for enemy to kill. Even the tougher penitent engine dies to evil stare. They are not there to kill anything because to kill something you need to first be able to attack. They move in, they get blown to bits. That's their role. They are not there for anti tank. They are there to keep your anti tank alive.

tneva82 wrote:

Lammia wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Lammia wrote:

Azuza001 wrote:
That's what I was thinking, that 6 immolaters wouldnt distract enough for the 3 exorcists but that's 12 multimelta shots at 24" that are not getting targeted because the exorcists are distracting. I have never felt multimeltas need to get within 12" to be effective (obviously they are better when they are but a str 8 ap-4 d6 shot is still a str 8 AP-4 d6 shot.)

But other than immolaters with multimeltas what are our anti tank options? Dominions with melta guns? Retributers with multi meltas? Seraphim with inferno pistols? Mortifiers with saws? That seems to be about it to me.

Repentia, Pen. Engine/Mortifier, MM Rets and BSS Combi-Melta are the popular choices with an honorable mention to Inferno Serephim and a nod to Zephyrim

Walkers aren't really at option as such. They are distraction carnlfex. Even the tougher variant of penitent engine dies when given evil stare let alone actual firepower. Best at role they serve eating up few shots away from exorcists due to rule of 3. And seeing how hard reaching combat is less than 4 damage(even less with mortifier) isn't all that hot result. And even less if you take flails which is more flexible weapon

They hit hard enough if they get there though and at a little over 50 ppm, I'd rather they get shot than Exos.

With saws penitent engine deals less than 4 damage. Mortifier even less. And the thing is "to hit you need to be alive". They die when given evil stare. They aren't there to kill anything. Just soak some firepower. If you could take more than 3 exorcists more of them would be better AT. Walkers for AT are just to lure enemy to shoot at them rather than exorcists. 3,12 per penitent engine(less with mortifier) vs leman russ isn't that hot. And that's with the saw which is in general worse weapon than flail. So 3.12 against ideal target on the more choppy version.

I guess?

I mean, whatever my Pen. Engine has hit hasn't played in the rest of the game an it has a habit of being remarkably resilient when it gets down to 1 wound, but I guess ymmv...

 Bilge Rat wrote:
Inexperienced Sisters of Battle player here

The warlord trait 'Beacon of Faith' gives a bonus miracle die every turn as long as the warlord is on the table. The Sacred Rose warlord trait Light of the Emperor gives a bonus miracle die every time the warlord performs an act of faith .

The latter sounds like it would be better since it can work more than once per turn, but to me it seems more restrictive since it is really only refunding dice instead of granting them. Is it even realistic to expect a canoness to be performing acts if faith all of the time? Beacon of Faith seems like it would always work out better but am I missing something?

Light of the Emperor is a fantastic way to recycle low dice into potentially high ones. Use those low dice as often as you can with this and you're basically giving yourself a chance to exchange a 2 for something better.

Yep that's the main use for that. Only issue is main use for those 2's will be to hit with gun but you often want exorcists to use MD so...one option would be to use those 2's to advance if you don't need to shoot/move more than 2.

I built two squads of ten retributors, one with 4 heavy flamers, 1 with 4 multi meltas, simulacrum in each and two cherubs in each. I know they're expensive, but I like them as a concept. I built the sister superiors with chainswords, and one with combi flamer for the mm squad, one with combi melta for the hf squad. This is for the holy trinity strat. Now I think about it though, would I be better off just having all the weapons line up, and swap the superiors?

FAQ is out!

beast_gts wrote:
FAQ is out!

Nothing big. Using a Command Reroll to reroll a MD is nice I guess.

Aw, can't use a Miracle dice on Mortal Wounds...

Sorry Canoness with Brazier of Holy Fire

Looks like we now need to take Plasma Pistols for our Rod of Office Canonesses, instead of Boltguns.

Makes the Army Box Canoness legal, but not sure I'm overly enthused by needing to spend 7 more points on such a mediorce weapon choice.

 Sim-Life wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
FAQ is out!

Nothing big. Using a Command Reroll to reroll a MD is nice I guess.

I don't always use Test of Faith or Vessel of the Emperor's Will to gain dice for 1CP when they come up. Not sure there will be many situations where it's worth spending CP to reroll one. Still, better to have the option than not, I suppose.

 Sim-Life wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
FAQ is out!

Nothing big. Using a Command Reroll to reroll a MD is nice I guess.

Biggest takeaways:
Army Box Rod of Office Canoness is now legal... but the wargear option itself suffers even more from role confusion than before. Hanging back to buff with her increased aura and having a mediocre but rather expensive close combat loadout (power sword and plasma pistol) is not a good combination, especially when the rod costs not an insignificant amount of points too. The bolter at least was free and guaranteed to get at least one bolt shot off per turn most of the time.

Repressors got a buff though, they now benefit from Acts of Faith, Shield of Faith AND Sacred Rites. Now an even better vehicle choice and still better than the Immolator.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Makes the Army Box Canoness legal, but not sure I'm overly enthused by needing to spend 7 more points on such a mediorce weapon choice.

Plasma pistols are only 5 points. Though I agree, the only good place to put a plasma pistol is on a Seraphim Superior IMO.

Asmodai wrote:


I don't always use Test of Faith or Vessel of the Emperor's Will to gain dice for 1CP when they come up. Not sure there will be many situations where it's worth spending CP to reroll one. Still, better to have the option than not, I suppose.

Laughs in Ebon Chalice

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:
Repressors got a buff though, they now benefit from Acts of Faith, Shield of Faith AND Sacred Rites. Still don't benefit from Order Convictions it seems, sadly. Still a good vehicle choice and still better than the Immolator.

They still have the order keyword, tho?

 deviantduck wrote:

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:
Repressors got a buff though, they now benefit from Acts of Faith, Shield of Faith AND Sacred Rites. Still don't benefit from Order Convictions it seems, sadly. Still a good vehicle choice and still better than the Immolator.

They still have the order keyword, tho?

Always thought they didn't but good to know they do .
In that case they are very nice, AP -1 or AP-2 immunity alone helps them quite a bit, as well as many of the other Order traits.

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:


Repressors got a buff though, they now benefit from Acts of Faith, Shield of Faith AND Sacred Rites. Still don't benefit from Order Convictions it seems, sadly. Still a good vehicle choice and still better than the Immolator.

Actually the Repressors have the <order> keyword so they do benefit from Convictions. It’s nice that my Repressors can now gain and use MDs, and Sacred Rites means all the shots from 2 stormbolters and Heavy flamer can gain from Divine Guidance.

It’s good to see them even mention the Repressor in the faq, makes me even more inclined to think they’ll include them in the next Codex as a transport choice.

 davidgr33n wrote:

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:


Repressors got a buff though, they now benefit from Acts of Faith, Shield of Faith AND Sacred Rites. Still don't benefit from Order Convictions it seems, sadly. Still a good vehicle choice and still better than the Immolator.

Actually the Repressors have the <order> keyword so they do benefit from Convictions. It’s nice that my Repressors can now gain and use MDs, and Sacred Rites means all the shots from 2 stormbolters and Heavy flamer can gain from Divine Guidance.

It’s good to see them even mention the Repressor in the faq, makes me even more inclined to think they’ll include them in the next Codex as a transport choice.

That would be next fw books. Fw units don't generally transfer to gw books.

Besides don't count on new sister codex this decade

tneva82 wrote:

 davidgr33n wrote:

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:


Repressors got a buff though, they now benefit from Acts of Faith, Shield of Faith AND Sacred Rites. Still don't benefit from Order Convictions it seems, sadly. Still a good vehicle choice and still better than the Immolator.

Actually the Repressors have the <order> keyword so they do benefit from Convictions. It’s nice that my Repressors can now gain and use MDs, and Sacred Rites means all the shots from 2 stormbolters and Heavy flamer can gain from Divine Guidance.

It’s good to see them even mention the Repressor in the faq, makes me even more inclined to think they’ll include them in the next Codex as a transport choice.

That would be next fw books. Fw units don't generally transfer to gw books.

Besides don't count on new sister codex this decade

My buddy is 100% convinced Repressor is getting the Legends treatment.

I’ll go with 95% assuming anything FW goes Legends.

Well if it would it would already have gone. And faq just makes it even less likely.

It won't go there. But neither will it go to sister codex any more than vulture or leviathan. It will stay with forge world rulebooks

tneva82 wrote:

 davidgr33n wrote:

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:


Repressors got a buff though, they now benefit from Acts of Faith, Shield of Faith AND Sacred Rites. Still don't benefit from Order Convictions it seems, sadly. Still a good vehicle choice and still better than the Immolator.

Actually the Repressors have the <order> keyword so they do benefit from Convictions. It’s nice that my Repressors can now gain and use MDs, and Sacred Rites means all the shots from 2 stormbolters and Heavy flamer can gain from Divine Guidance.

It’s good to see them even mention the Repressor in the faq, makes me even more inclined to think they’ll include them in the next Codex as a transport choice.

That would be next fw books. Fw units don't generally transfer to gw books.

Besides don't count on new sister codex this decade

It always bugged me that the trygon got turned into a codex entry and even kept the same sculpt as the FW model but the never did it with anything else. The contemptor dread maybe? Like how hard would it have benn to make an Immolator/Repressor kit for this release?

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Makes the Army Box Canoness legal, but not sure I'm overly enthused by needing to spend 7 more points on such a mediorce weapon choice.

Plasma pistols are only 5 points. Though I agree, the only good place to put a plasma pistol is on a Seraphim Superior IMO.

Lammia wrote:
Repentia, Pen. Engine/Mortifier, MM Rets and BSS Combi-Melta are the popular choices with an honorable mention to Inferno Serephim and a nod to Zephyrim

While capable, Repentia are extremely fragile and you basically need to build your list around maximizing their output for them to be worth it. I mean, I'm still going to try cause I think they'd be a useful addition... would be more useful if they weren't elite slot though. Wish they were FA or something.

Penitent Engine / Mortifier... of the two, only the mortifier is worth taking. The Pentitent Flails are nice with their 15 attacks at S6 AP-2, but that's really more of an elite infantry murderer, not much of an anti-tank unit. Anything S7 with a 3+ save or better (which is a lot of tanks) will certainly take some damage from it, but at the same time, P.Engines and Mortifiers are actually more fragile than an armored sentinel-- making them fairly easy to take down with anti-tank fire. I mean, with their toughness and number of wounds, even concentrated heavy bolter fire will be a serious threat to these things.

Multi-Melta Retributors are 32 points apiece, for a total squad cost of 138 points (148 points if you're smart and give them armorium cherubs). They're hugely expensive for what you get, and I guarantee that they'll be focus-fired hard. They can sure put out some damage, with a single turn of 6 multi-melta shots with those cherubs... but, particularly if they're at half range, they'll probably be wiped out the turn afterwards unless you're extremely careful or lucky.

Seraphim... I mean, maybe. Twin inferno pistols are certainly really useful. But they do basically have to assault the tank they're trying to kill in order to maximize their inferno pistols. But they're definitely a good budget option, especially with meltagun dominions not as useful as they used to be.

Zephyrim are really more of infantry destroyers than tank destroyers, even with their rerolling wounds. Rerolling a 6+ to-wound roll will certainly help.... but it's still a 6+ rolled twice. Even with an Imagifier or other +1 strength option, they're still 5+, and good luck having one of the non-jump pack units follow them close enough to give that bonus.

 Grundz wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Makes the Army Box Canoness legal, but not sure I'm overly enthused by needing to spend 7 more points on such a mediorce weapon choice.

Plasma pistols are only 5 points. Though I agree, the only good place to put a plasma pistol is on a Seraphim Superior IMO.

As read it appears that the only way of taking a rod of office is to take the whole loadout, sword, plasma pistol and rod(?)

thats an expensive loadout for a nonsense canoness

 Melissia wrote:

Zephyrim are really more of infantry destroyers than tank destroyers, even with their rerolling wounds. Rerolling a 6+ to-wound roll will certainly help.... but it's still a 6+ rolled twice. Even with an Imagifier or other +1 strength option, they're still 5+, and good luck having one of the non-jump pack units follow them close enough to give that bonus.

with auras/bloody rose they have 4 attacks each, possibly rerolling ones, at S4, +1 to wound and rerolling wounds.
so a squad of 8 (lets say 2 stay back for auras) are going to average:
14 wounds vs t7/3+
9.5 wounds vs t8/3+

it sounds like a perfect storm but its really just not outrunning your banner boy and/or priest, miracle dice letting you guarantee a charge out of reserves is awesome.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 davidgr33n wrote:

Yes it’s an extra 14 points added for a 3” aura addition. GW assumes a Rod Canoness can only lead from the front, they don’t consider a backfield Canoness a thing.

also the rod only effects her personal aura, not indomitable belief

Pass

:(



another note, if you need to fill the slots, squads of rets with "not 4 heavy weapons" are viable, one or two multimeltas and 2 cherubs is a good amount of alpha strike shoots

 davidgr33n wrote:

 Grundz wrote:

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
Makes the Army Box Canoness legal, but not sure I'm overly enthused by needing to spend 7 more points on such a mediorce weapon choice.

Plasma pistols are only 5 points. Though I agree, the only good place to put a plasma pistol is on a Seraphim Superior IMO.

As read it appears that the only way of taking a rod of office is to take the whole loadout, sword, plasma pistol and rod(?)

thats an expensive loadout for a nonsense canoness

Yes it’s an extra 14 points added for a 3” aura addition. GW assumes a Rod Canoness can only lead from the front, they don’t consider a backfield Canoness a thing.

No model, no rules. The only model with a Rod of Office has Power Sword and Plasma Pistol, so that is what you have to take.

That's really obnoxious and makes me even less likely to use said rod. I mean, why not also allow a Blessed Blade?

 Melissia wrote:
That's really obnoxious and makes me even less likely to use said rod. I mean, why not also allow a Blessed Blade?

What's even wierder is that GW is THAT picky with loadout options for the Canoness when almost any Superior can take a hand flamer... which are only in the Seraphim box. And in turn a Seraphim Superior can only take a bolt/plasma pistol or a power sword.

Like seriously, they could have at least made both bolter or plasma pistol choices for the rod, considering they bothered printing the bolter bit all over their books, rather than taking away the option entirely with the FAQ. It's like they are desperately trying to keep the value of the army box up with that one exclusive character model in it, now that the actual plastic kits are out.

 Ragnar Blackmane wrote:

 Melissia wrote:
That's really obnoxious and makes me even less likely to use said rod. I mean, why not also allow a Blessed Blade?

What's even wierder is that GW is THAT picky with loadout options for the Canoness when almost any Superior can take a hand flamer... which are only in the Seraphim box. And in turn a Seraphim Superior can only take a bolt/plasma pistol or a power sword.

Like seriously, they could have at least made both bolter or plasma pistol choices for the rod, considering they bothered printing the bolter bit all over their books, rather than taking away the option entirely with the FAQ. It's like they are desperately trying to keep the value of the army box up with that one exclusive character model in it, now that the actual plastic kits are out.

Seeing GW doesn't sell that box anymore hardly reason. Especially as the box is still discount and gives more poses which is value in itself in an army that can easily have like 100+ infantry model so attack of the clones is definitely an issue

More likely the new canoness box cannot be used to build boltgun+power sword+rod combo