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davidgr33n wrote: BR Seraphims with Inferno Pistols would have AP-5, is that something that would ever come into play? I know Eliminators with Camo cloaks are 1+, so would the AP-5 IPs negate that save?
Also, in the case of Seraphim using the Deadly Descent strat and Marines using their Auspex Scan strat, who shoots first? I’ve looked for an answer and can’t find one, other than in other cases the active player decides... is that correct?
They'd get a 6+.
And Centurions are both popular and 2+ with no invuln. Their save would be negated by AP-5.
About best use for that but yeah not coming to play all that often in practice. -3 is generally the max you really help. -4 is already getting marginal. -2 is generally the sweet spot.
Got my ass kicked today though only 7-8 in the end. Was playing against IG tank armada with 3 tank commander(I think), 3 russ, 2 basilisk and 2 armigers. With just 4 multi melta, 2 melta gun and couple combi melta I def was running short on AT guns! Did drop one knight but concentrated too much on those knights. Should have gone for no inv save russes instead(particularly that punisher...Damn those 40 S5 shots will hurt even valorous heart).
Yet again opponent got surprised by durability as the -2 basically was giant middle finger to those battle cannons and earthshaker cannons.
Celestine was hero tagging first 2 tanks, then causing 8 damage to executioner before leaving that to multi melta(other russ was tad too far) and dealt with Harken and astropath netting me 2 vp's. Though maybe tagging that punisher would have been better use of her.
Arco flagelants and repentia's soaked up most of his anti infantry firepower turns 1-3. Seraphim squad dealt with 3 squads and finished off another squad of infantry crippled by dominions before succumbing to knight charging in. Could have done bit better had I remembered to charge and 3 point squad like I had planned...Instead they got gunned down.
Inability to harm distant tanks hurt. Exorcists will help once I get those. Also inferno pistols for seraphim will help. Ordered 3rd party ones seeing no quarantee official ones will come in months so just have to wait for them to arrive.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/04 20:45:46
Arco flagelants and repentia's soaked up most of his anti infantry firepower turns 1-3. Seraphim squad dealt with 3 squads and finished off another squad of infantry crippled by dominions before succumbing to knight charging in. Could have done bit better had I remembered to charge and 3 point squad like I had planned...Instead they got gunned down.
IDK about you but I probably would have really tried to keep the seraphim in deep strike until I could charge and lock down those tanks with them and miracle dice
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/04 21:34:54
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They were in deep strike. First squad dropped in, shot 2 survivors from squad that dominions had already nearly decimated. I then FORGOT to charge them which was plan(Charge and 3 point for safety) which got first squad killed. Second squad dropped in on same location and ended up scything through 2 more squads on their own before that knight came in. Not too bad outing as it is considering I blew it myself on forgetting to declare charge.
Good point on locking tanks though...Forgot entirely that option. Let's see. 49 shots, hit on 6, reroll 1's. That's 8 hits, 8 rerolls so let's say 10 hits total for worst case. 7 wounds and 2-3 dead for about worst case. So yeah I could have tagged at least on t3. T2 punisher was safe as the knight was still there blocking deep strike(had I had inferno pistols I could have tried to drop one, blow the knight(if lucky) and drop second for tagging).
Got to keep that in mind. Games take so much time which is limited and new army with tons to remember(forgot passion and the shooting bonus after getting it for a while...and didn't realize sooner I could use cherubs to literally buy myself that "gain 3 MD for vp" card sooner which would have helped me to get easier cards to score sooner)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/04 21:43:53
I just want to say I'm very, very happy with the place that Celestians are in right now.
They're incredibly versatile given their limited equipment choices.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/04 22:07:35
The people in the past who convinced themselves to do unspeakable things were no less human than you or I. They made their decisions; the only thing that prevents history from repeating itself is making different ones.
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I like them too. Albeit today they didn't do much but that's partially because I deployed them poorly and for some reason opponent decided he really wants to get rid of 5 celestians with no weapons whatsoever(they were originally supposed to be sniper guardians for imagifiers but didn't need for that) coupled with some bad dice rolling.
Guess I prefer opponent shooting them over say retributors...
(on his defence my army was solid mess of identical looking models so realizing they were celestians with no upgrades wasn't that obvious)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/04 22:14:10
Has anyone else considered the Zealot Missionary Pious Vourne (from Blackstone Fortress) for their list? I’m thinking for 25 pts she fits nicely into one of my Elite slots. She’s a character with a heavy flamer that rolls 2d6 (take the highest roll) damage against Chaos units.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/04 22:28:07
davidgr33n wrote: Has anyone else considered the Zealot Missionary Pious Vourne (from Blackstone Fortress) for their list? I’m thinking for 25 pts she fits nicely into one of my Elite slots. She’s a character with a heavy flamer that rolls 2d6 (take the highest roll) damage against Chaos units.
I want to jump in on the heels of the conversation about Superior loadouts... is anyone throwing hand flamers around? I'm definitely going to drop a couple of infernos on Superiors, mainly to create triple melta threats, but to bring down the average cost I might model a couple squads with hand flamers. They do allow chargers to come from a little closer in without overwatch, but on a small squad with a good roll they could really increase the output in the shooting phases, including in melee, and on close charges. Add the BR -1AP and the option for Holy Trinity and it seems like a single point well spent. Am I overvaluing them even at that low price?
MacPhail wrote: I want to jump in on the heels of the conversation about Superior loadouts... is anyone throwing hand flamers around? I'm definitely going to drop a couple of infernos on Superiors, mainly to create triple melta threats, but to bring down the average cost I might model a couple squads with hand flamers. They do allow chargers to come from a little closer in without overwatch, but on a small squad with a good roll they could really increase the output in the shooting phases, including in melee, and on close charges. Add the BR -1AP and the option for Holy Trinity and it seems like a single point well spent. Am I overvaluing them even at that low price?
absolutely, even if its 1pt to just unlock trinity
Automatically Appended Next Post: Well, I was playing around in battlescribe
2k points, 25 CP, sacred rose list
the idea is to take a ton of relics, burn all the cherubs on the first turn, and then ride that wave of renewing miracle dice until the end of the game.
many relics are not listed because I hadn't decided on them yet
tons of points to be tuned in slowly but it seems like it would be fun for a casual game, and I have one too many canonesses
Retributor Squad: 2x Armourium Cherub
Retributor Superior: Bolt pistol, Boltgun
Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
Retributor w/ Heavy Weapon: Heavy bolter
How are people finding sacrificing your sacred rites to add an inquisitor such as Greyfax or Coteaz in your lists. I'm thinking the added psychic defense buff could be more beneficial more often in games. I have yet to play a game with the sisters so just curious how this works in practice.
skycapt44 wrote: How are people finding sacrificing your sacred rites to add an inquisitor such as Greyfax or Coteaz in your lists. I'm thinking the added psychic defense buff could be more beneficial more often in games. I have yet to play a game with the sisters so just curious how this works in practice.
Inquisitors have special rule that you can add one and still retain mono bonus.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hmmm local tournament organiser is going for itc style. Not fan of that but might give a go. Apart from expecting big boost to marines what other things to look for? Units that perform particularly badly in it?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/05 14:51:02
Hmmm local tournament organiser is going for itc style. Not fan of that but might give a go. Apart from expecting big boost to marines what other things to look for? Units that perform particularly badly in it?
What I find most tricky about ITC is optmizing for the Secondary objectives. If you like youtube guides, D6 Evolution has a great one on that subject.
Hmmm local tournament organiser is going for itc style. Not fan of that but might give a go. Apart from expecting big boost to marines what other things to look for? Units that perform particularly badly in it?
What I find most tricky about ITC is optmizing for the Secondary objectives. If you like youtube guides, D6 Evolution has a great one on that subject.
Exactly this. Be aware at any point in time what secondaries your list can give up.
The reason Marines are so strong, and the reason you are going to see the winning LVO list everywhere, is because of how effectively it denies secondaries.
Headhunter (1VP per character slain) - Sisters give this one up pretty easy since VH likes to run a bunch of Imagifiers and most lists will include a bunch of Canonesses and likely Missionaries too. Repentia Superiors are also a target. My 2K list runs 9 characters, so in a game where my opponent does well, they can usually fully score this.
Kingslayer (1VP / 2 wounds done to a character, +1 VP if it was Warlord and killed) - Celestine gives full VP for this one if she's your Warlord. The Triumph of Saint Katherine makes this one very easy to max-out if you have one (even if it's not your WL).
Marked for Death (Choose 4 units with PL7+, 1 VP for each destroyed) - Celestine, Triumph and Exorcists give this one up. Retributors, Celestians , Zepyhrs will if you take more than the minimum unit size. It requires killing specific units, so it's less popular than others.
Titan Slayers - Useless against us. Yay!
Gang Busters (1VP per 6 wounds done to unit with 3W+ models) - Mortifiers and Penitent Engines potentially give up this one if you're running a bunch of them.
Big Game Hunter (1VP per Vehicle or Monster with 7W+ destroyed) - Exorcists are obvious targets for this, and it's a likely selection if you're running Rhinos, Immolator or Repressors in addition. It's similar to Marked for Death, but the targets don't need to be specified. Unlike MFD, it can't score off of Celestine or the Triumph.
Pick Your Poison - Pure Sisters can only ever give up 2 points on this one, so it's unlikely to be chosen against you.
Butcher's Bill (1VP if you kill 2+ units in a turn) - This is where running a Brigade of 45 or 49 point Sisters squads will bite you. Even with VH, it's pretty easy to score this against MSU Sisters.
Reaper (1VP/20 models destroyed) - This one is usually taken against Guard and Orks. Although lots of Sisters armies do run a bit over 80 models, you'd have to basically get tabled for this to fully score. It is a threat if you're running a list with 100+ though.
Recon / Behind Enemy Lines / Ground Control / King of the Hill - these all score points for achieving and maintaining positioning. They depend more on the enemy army than yours.
Engineers - Enemy units can score VP for hiding in a ruin doing nothing. Sisters are somewhat vulnerable to this since we don't have any indirect fire. Deep-striking Zephyrim or Seraphim can help root them out, but expect enemy armies to score this one relatively easily.
Old School - Similar to the Chapter Approved secondaries. Doesn't hit Sisters particularly worse than anyone else.
Didn't realise the retributor stratagem not only made MMs 36 inch range but also added one to the damage roll! That's absolutely insane, will definitely be having a full squad far forward and unleashing them early.
Rogerio134134 wrote: Didn't realise the retributor stratagem not only made MMs 36 inch range but also added one to the damage roll! That's absolutely insane, will definitely be having a full squad far forward and unleashing them early.
It’s 2 CP but we’ll worth it. I have 3 units of 4MM Rets, and use that strat every turn as long as I have at least one unit w 3 MMs
Rogerio134134 wrote: Didn't realise the retributor stratagem not only made MMs 36 inch range but also added one to the damage roll! That's absolutely insane, will definitely be having a full squad far forward and unleashing them early.
Bejezus! How on earth have I managed to miss that one too O_o
Rogerio134134 wrote: Didn't realise the retributor stratagem not only made MMs 36 inch range but also added one to the damage roll! That's absolutely insane, will definitely be having a full squad far forward and unleashing them early.
It’s 2 CP but we’ll worth it. I have 3 units of 4MM Rets, and use that strat every turn as long as I have at least one unit w 3 MMs
Is it though?
That stratagem is three 1CP stratagems packaged as one so they couldn't all be used together.
2CP buys a second round of shooting, each of the independent abilities is a 1CP stratagem-grade ability.
That said, some times you have to pay up when the difference is between making range and not.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/06 03:35:21
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
skycapt44 wrote: How are people finding sacrificing your sacred rites to add an inquisitor such as Greyfax or Coteaz in your lists. I'm thinking the added psychic defense buff could be more beneficial more often in games. I have yet to play a game with the sisters so just curious how this works in practice.
Inquisitors have special rule that you can add one and still retain mono bonus.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hmmm local tournament organiser is going for itc style. Not fan of that but might give a go. Apart from expecting big boost to marines what other things to look for? Units that perform particularly badly in it?
Secondaries are the key. Keys are to remember that a point is a point: score them when you can. ITC scores progressively(every round) so its key not to fall behind. So recognizing how msny objectives you MUST control saves you much pain.if the enemy has only one objective, and you go second, then you only need two objectives. If they will likely kill one unit, you need to kill 2, but a 3rd may just over expose you.
Measuring risk and reward is the thing.
Hold out bait to entice the enemy. Feign disorder, and then crush him.
-Sun Tzu, the Art of War
http://www.40kunorthodoxy.blogspot.com
skycapt44 wrote: How are people finding sacrificing your sacred rites to add an inquisitor such as Greyfax or Coteaz in your lists. I'm thinking the added psychic defense buff could be more beneficial more often in games. I have yet to play a game with the sisters so just curious how this works in practice.
Honestly, I don't think Sacred Rites are remotely strong enough to make me want to stick to mono except out of convenience.
Most of the competitive list variations I'm working through have a battalion of IG with a Basilisk or Hydra. I'm still just really not happy with any of my Sisters lists mono or no though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/06 07:17:08
Guardsmen, hear me! Cadia may lie in ruin, but her proud people do not! For each brother and sister who gave their lives to Him as martyrs, we will reap a vengeance fiftyfold! Cadia may be no more, but will never be forgotten; our foes shall tremble in fear at the name, for their doom shall come from the barrels of Cadian guns, fired by Cadian hands! Forward, for vengeance and retribution, in His name and the names of our fallen comrades!
skycapt44 wrote: How are people finding sacrificing your sacred rites to add an inquisitor such as Greyfax or Coteaz in your lists. I'm thinking the added psychic defense buff could be more beneficial more often in games. I have yet to play a game with the sisters so just curious how this works in practice.
Honestly, I don't think Sacred Rites are remotely strong enough to make me want to stick to mono except out of convenience.
Most of the competitive list variations I'm working through have a battalion of IG with a Basilisk or Hydra. I'm still just really not happy with any of my Sisters lists mono or no though.
Spirit of the Martyr looks pretty good. Every third model you got getting a free shooting attack or melee attack (i.e. Repentia) if it gets killed will do some damage, especially if it triggers on say an Exorcist or any special- or heavy weapon model.
Aegis of the Emps makes the innate Psy-Defense sisters got actually useable instead of wasted ink, which is good because pretty much all of our units can deny with it. Rolling 4-9 against a cast attempt with a result span of 2-12 is solid, even without other debuffs like Null Rods.
All in all, table results 2-4 are all good, while 1 stacks well with Argent Shroud and 5 is yet another solid army wide melee buff.
Even result Nr. 6 is great if you have larger squads, because you will get to farm free Miracle Dice from Morale Tests all the time with very little to no risk. Heck, even if you cannot possibly fail the morale test (because you only took 1-2 casualties) you just doubled your chances of getting a free miracle dice! I actually consider it to be stronger than the +1 advance for any Order except Argent Shroud.
I'd say rolling on the table might actually be pretty solid as there is nothing that is wasted besides 1 being situational and 3 being useless without enemy psykers.
Sure, Rites aren't as strong as SM Doctrines, but for the health of the game and any sort of balance still left in 40k we should all be glad that isn't the case.
Also we still get to ally Inquisitors while keeping Rites, which is very nice, even if I do wish the same was the case for Assassins.
This message was edited 7 times. Last update was at 2020/02/06 12:11:52
Dark it was, and dire of form
the beast that laid them low
Hrothgar's sharpened frost-forged blade
to deal a fatal blow
he stalked and hunted day and night
and came upon it's lair
With sword and shield Hrothgar fought
and earned the name of slayer
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