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Noticed something I had missed before from triumph's rules as I got one yesterday. It's relic generates MD at the start of each turn. For some reason I thought it was same as beacon of faith generating only on your turn. Instead you get 1 on both your and opponents turn. And ensures you get 2 to begin with even if opponent gets first turn. And if you get 4+ for both means you even have 2 automatic inv save passing available if opponent goes first.

This could work on more casual enviroment we play here at.

Regarding the Triumph, it might also be worth noting that allied bullgryns can use their new strategem shield of flesh to subtract an additional 1 to hit rolls against it if they're nearby, for a total of -2. Pretty niche, but if you're hellbent on the Triumph surviving, it could help.

I would wait for FAQ on PA5 before buying any models. GW has funny habit of removing things like that in FAQ.

On already for sure things though if you have the terrain piece as well you are quaranteed 3 MD on your opponent's turn if he goes first. As long as 2 of them are 4+ you have in essence 2 auto pass inv save and ability to turn one 3 to 4 after rolling. That starts to make for rather survivable triumph I expect.

Plus the dialogus effect. BTW that's 1 dice per turn or one dice per act of faith you can modify up and down?

Has anyone noticed any affect from the various PA books on your opponents armies? Apart from the Marine FAQ lol'ing all of the IH players all the "new" I have encountered is some tooled up GK lists that were relatively easy to shut down in the psychic phase.

I played two Tau lists last week but niether had embraced anything from their new PA stuff. Looking at the PA it seems like they got a lot though. I know the GSC upgrade was pretty disappointing and the Guard stuff seems pretty unremarkable.

Has anything PA related jumped up and bit anyone?

I'm still enjoying mech VH with a bit of EC and BR mixed in. The Marine FAQ has derailed a lot of the SM lists and in comparison to the pre FAQ SM's. I have yet to see anything else all that hard to deal with.

 dracpanzer wrote:
Has anyone noticed any affect from the various PA books on your opponents armies? Apart from the Marine FAQ lol'ing all of the IH players all the "new" I have encountered is some tooled up GK lists that were relatively easy to shut down in the psychic phase.

I played two Tau lists last week but niether had embraced anything from their new PA stuff. Looking at the PA it seems like they got a lot though. I know the GSC upgrade was pretty disappointing and the Guard stuff seems pretty unremarkable.

Has anything PA related jumped up and bit anyone?

I'm still enjoying mech VH with a bit of EC and BR mixed in. The Marine FAQ has derailed a lot of the SM lists and in comparison to the pre FAQ SM's. I have yet to see anything else all that hard to deal with.

I've played 1k Sons in a super casual game (they were cult of time(?) and proxy-ing Scrab Terminators(?) to try them.) It was a weird/different game, but lots of fun.

I think Sisters are actually in the best position to ruin GKs day at the moment, the improved Smites and Inner Fire are manageable and most of their other stuff seems fair...

I ran into GK yesterday and in ITC kill based enviroment GK's aren't that bad. There's only so much you can stop seeing even with +3 you need average to roll 6 to deny his spells. Only so many 6's you can roll even with MD's(especially if you don't have imagifiers). And what I ran into issue is with sisters being often msu all those 2 wound smites were knocking off small units here and there giving him kill and kill more steadily.

Albeit wasn't helped that I forgot to use MD's for 6" charge with repentia which cost me them, Coteaz and missionary in short order plus hold more for 2 turns.

tneva82 wrote:
Relic no restrictions apart from your CP. Heroine in the making and extra tales for imagifier max 1. Imagifier thing I checked today as I was hoping for 2 imagifiers giving not just stoic but also deny rerolls vs grey knights well frankly stoic was pretty useless so should have just saved CP's and go for 2 deny rerolls...Either he was AP0 or AP1 or AP3 in melee anyway

Thanks for the help, that got me moving on my next list. This one may be taking on enough of a lasting shape to roll with for a few games... VH Brigade + BR Vanguard. Sounds like Beacon of Faith + Indomitable Belief will continue. I'm going to try shifting Warlord to the VH Imagifier with Beacon and Book, and running the BR Imagifier as a Venerated Saint with Stoic & Warrior. Now I've got a to-do list for a dozen or so models I need to build, so I better get moving!

 Orlanth wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:
I've been juggling VH and BR like you, and also trying for Brigade + Battalion but often landing with Brigade + Vanguard or Outrider.

I havent assembled anything yet, because I am working on paper lists only at the moment. The idea being that I have to get it right first time, or buy lots of extra models for swap ins. I will end up with a mix of the two, have some swap ins anyway but get it mostly right, or at least something I am mostly happy with without having to buy too many extra models to do so.

That being said I am having trouble with paper lists. I am trying to fit allI want in 2k in Brigade detachment with no extras and having problems with squeeze. I don't know where to begin to do Brigade and Battalion. Note that from above I want my fieldable Brigade and my collection to near near enough one and the same, with only minimal swap arounds. This army is expensive and I must be cautious with my budgeting.

Yeah, that would be tough to plan without playing. I have twenty+ years of collecting to fall back on, around 3500 points, so I'm mostly wrangling with new stuff. My buy-and-build strategy mostly goes Zephyrim, Repentia, Arcos, and then maybe some new walkers. I have nearly all the infantry I need, but I'm thinking about doing the 32mm base upgrade with those little MDF split rings.

dracpanzer wrote:Has anyone noticed any affect from the various PA books on your opponents armies? Apart from the Marine FAQ lol'ing all of the IH players all the "new" I have encountered is some tooled up GK lists that were relatively easy to shut down in the psychic phase.

I played two Tau lists last week but niether had embraced anything from their new PA stuff. Looking at the PA it seems like they got a lot though. I know the GSC upgrade was pretty disappointing and the Guard stuff seems pretty unremarkable.

Has anything PA related jumped up and bit anyone?

I'm still enjoying mech VH with a bit of EC and BR mixed in. The Marine FAQ has derailed a lot of the SM lists and in comparison to the pre FAQ SM's. I have yet to see anything else all that hard to deal with.

Oh yeah, definitely. Most of my Chaos friends are using Faith and Fury stratagems all the time, and Guard players are using Tank Aces and custom regiments fairly liberally. Custom Regiment "Gunnery Experts & Disciplined Marksmen" is very popular, since the good Guard REGIMENT orders and stratagems were paired with bad regiment traits anyway.

I am using the Ritual of the Damned in all my Grey Knight lists, too.

tneva82 wrote:
Noticed something I had missed before from triumph's rules as I got one yesterday. It's relic generates MD at the start of each turn. For some reason I thought it was same as beacon of faith generating only on your turn. Instead you get 1 on both your and opponents turn. And ensures you get 2 to begin with even if opponent gets first turn. And if you get 4+ for both means you even have 2 automatic inv save passing available if opponent goes first.

This could work on more casual enviroment we play here at.

if you get a 3+ you can turn them into auto saves, because it can also make the dice +1

Ive played the first game with triumph, in a casual environment it is pretty fun. It was able to tie up a whole squad of terminators that I managed to string out between a squad of sisters and triumph so they couldn't bring their weapons to bear

-2 to hit on the power fists and two automatic saves was a pretty sweet deal.


I'm curious what these meched up VH lists look like, my local players are getting tired of getting land raiders one shot by exorcists

I’ve been running Exorcists for over 10 years and have only once one-shot a Land Raider. Even with the new dex Exorcist, the chance of one-shotting a T8 16W vehicle is less than 5%.
It bothers me when these claims are made like Land Raiders are “constantly” getting “one-shotted” by Exorcists.

I know it's not a real tactic and is extremely lucky, but I've one-shooted Land Raiders back in 5th Ed multiple times. Sure, each hit was a 1 in 36 chance of it happening, but there is no accounting for luck.

In 8th Edition, it would require a lot more luck to kill a LR with one salvo, even with 3d3 D6 damage attacks.

Miracle Dice can substantially help skew results, and certain strats can make it more likely etc... but honestly the range is as big an advantage as any. Its a big hitter w RANGE, which matters.

 davidgr33n wrote:
I’ve been running Exorcists for over 10 years and have only once one-shot a Land Raider. Even with the new dex Exorcist, the chance of one-shotting a T8 16W vehicle is less than 5%.
It bothers me when these claims are made like Land Raiders are “constantly” getting “one-shotted” by Exorcists.

Remember things has change for vehicles too. No longer have armor anymore you have to break through. Just wounds. Land raider has how many wounds when with Exorcist missile launcher it is a Heavy 3D3 8 strength, -3 ap and D6 damage. So if you got 3 wounds and subsitute the damage with MD of 6 that is 18 damage right there. It is gone. I have one hit a Hammerhead Gunship of tau with no help of MD. Vehicles no longer have armor you have to penetrate, making them a lot weaker.

 Xfrawg wrote:

 davidgr33n wrote:
I’ve been running Exorcists for over 10 years and have only once one-shot a Land Raider. Even with the new dex Exorcist, the chance of one-shotting a T8 16W vehicle is less than 5%.
It bothers me when these claims are made like Land Raiders are “constantly” getting “one-shotted” by Exorcists.

Remember things has change for vehicles too. No longer have armor anymore you have to break through. Just wounds. Land raider has how many wounds when with Exorcist missile launcher it is a Heavy 3D3 8 strength, -3 ap and D6 damage. So if you got 3 wounds and subsitute the damage with MD of 6 that is 18 damage right there. It is gone. I have one hit a Hammerhead Gunship of tau with no help of MD. Vehicles no longer have armor you have to penetrate, making them a lot weaker.

Umm you replace ONE damage dice with MD. So if you get 3 past save and have 6 on MD you cause 2d6+6. You need to roll 10+ to one shot it.

For the record made program to simulate exorcist vs various targets with options to have reroll 1 to hit(canoness), use moment of grace to one to wound roll(this assumes you have 3 spare MD for this) and one or two 6 miracle dice(2 requires you also to have triumph nearby. Only way to get 2 acts of faith for exorcists).

With every possible buff available(aka canoness, triump, 2 md's that have 6 and 3 other spare(to ensure even if your all failed to wound rolls are 1 you can still up one to passed wound roll) and 1 CP for moment of grace you have about 27% odds of one shotting land raider. That's huge resource sink though. 170 for exorcist, 185 for triump, 45 for canoness, getting 2 6's on MD's and at least 1-2 other MD plus CP.

Naked zero ups more like 2%. Add in rr1 and ONE MD6 and we go up to around 6%. 9% with moment of grace added to mix.

One thing I did not add is sacred rite for extra AP on 6 to wound.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grundz wrote:

if you get a 3+ you can turn them into auto saves, because it can also make the dice +1

True that though flat 4+ MD better. But if you have 3rd MD(aka terrain. Only other source that gives you MD on T1 opponent turn if he goes first. Beacon of faith specifically is start of your turn) that helps also. Possibly 2 auto inv save passed and one essentially 3++.

tneva82 wrote:

 Xfrawg wrote:

 davidgr33n wrote:
I’ve been running Exorcists for over 10 years and have only once one-shot a Land Raider. Even with the new dex Exorcist, the chance of one-shotting a T8 16W vehicle is less than 5%.
It bothers me when these claims are made like Land Raiders are “constantly” getting “one-shotted” by Exorcists.

Remember things has change for vehicles too. No longer have armor anymore you have to break through. Just wounds. Land raider has how many wounds when with Exorcist missile launcher it is a Heavy 3D3 8 strength, -3 ap and D6 damage. So if you got 3 wounds and subsitute the damage with MD of 6 that is 18 damage right there. It is gone. I have one hit a Hammerhead Gunship of tau with no help of MD. Vehicles no longer have armor you have to penetrate, making them a lot weaker.

Umm you replace ONE damage dice with MD. So if you get 3 past save and have 6 on MD you cause 2d6+6. You need to roll 10+ to one shot it.

For the record made program to simulate exorcist vs various targets with options to have reroll 1 to hit(canoness), use moment of grace to one to wound roll(this assumes you have 3 spare MD for this) and one or two 6 miracle dice(2 requires you also to have triumph nearby. Only way to get 2 acts of faith for exorcists).

With every possible buff available(aka canoness, triump, 2 md's that have 6 and 3 other spare(to ensure even if your all failed to wound rolls are 1 you can still up one to passed wound roll) and 1 CP for moment of grace you have about 27% odds of one shotting land raider. That's huge resource sink though. 170 for exorcist, 185 for triump, 45 for canoness, getting 2 6's on MD's and at least 1-2 other MD plus CP.

Naked zero ups more like 2%. Add in rr1 and ONE MD6 and we go up to around 6%. 9% with moment of grace added to mix.

One thing I did not add is sacred rite for extra AP on 6 to wound.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grundz wrote:

if you get a 3+ you can turn them into auto saves, because it can also make the dice +1

True that though flat 4+ MD better. But if you have 3rd MD(aka terrain. Only other source that gives you MD on T1 opponent turn if he goes first. Beacon of faith specifically is start of your turn) that helps also. Possibly 2 auto inv save passed and one essentially 3++.

I didn't know that, I thought you can substitute as many dice for a act of faith that you need, unless your saying it is waste to do more than one. I only say this because charging for act of faith, You need two MD to do charge on act of faith to get a model that is say 11 inches away.

You can replace as many dice in single roll with one act. Charge is single roll so you can replace 1 or 2 dice. Single shooting attack is single roll. Exorcist has 3d3 individual attacks. You need one act per one attack.

check the FAQ for clarification.

 davidgr33n wrote:
I’ve been running Exorcists for over 10 years and have only once one-shot a Land Raider. Even with the new dex Exorcist, the chance of one-shotting a T8 16W vehicle is less than 5%.
It bothers me when these claims are made like Land Raiders are “constantly” getting “one-shotted” by Exorcists.

Triumph standing by to make the first two shots do 12 damage gets you most of the way there

Stop rolling dice when you don't have to

That seems to be mostly how they've built sisters, you have these statistically iffy weapons that can be over the top good with miracle dice

 Grundz wrote:

 davidgr33n wrote:
I’ve been running Exorcists for over 10 years and have only once one-shot a Land Raider. Even with the new dex Exorcist, the chance of one-shotting a T8 16W vehicle is less than 5%.
It bothers me when these claims are made like Land Raiders are “constantly” getting “one-shotted” by Exorcists.

Triumph standing by to make the first two shots do 12 damage gets you most of the way there

Stop rolling dice when you don't have to

That seems to be mostly how they've built sisters, you have these statistically iffy weapons that can be over the top good with miracle dice

I agree with your statement “stop rolling dice when you don’t have to”, but taking a 185 point model to do that is not very competitive. I mean, you’re taking a model that costs MORE than a Land Raider costs base just to “get most of the way there”.

 davidgr33n wrote:


I agree with your statement “stop rolling dice when you don’t have to”, but taking a 185 point model to do that is not very competitive. I mean, you’re taking a model that costs MORE than a Land Raider costs base just to TRY to kill it.

That 185 points replaces a dialogus, faith generation canoness and battle sanctum, so its fairly reasonably priced for what it does.

I know I know, unless I'm playing the cookie cutter meta list that someone else has been prototyping it must be bad.

“That 185 points replaces a dialogus, faith generation canoness and battle sanctum, so its fairly reasonably priced for what it does.”

You mean you’re replacing 3 units which cost 130 points with one that costs 185 points to knock out a model that costs 180 points.

I’ll stick to my argument.

 davidgr33n wrote:
“That 185 points replaces a dialogus, faith generation canoness and battle sanctum, so its fairly reasonably priced for what it does.”

You mean you’re replacing 3 units which cost 130 points with one that costs 185 points to knock out a model that costs 180 points.

I’ll stick to my argument.

What land raider is 180 points?
You understand that triumph isn't just sitting around babysitting the exorcists all game right?

Cheapest land raider I found was 242 pts. Not 180 pts.

And you assume that's only thing triumph does. Oh yes. Help destroy land raider and instantly self destructs. Yep yep. Makes sense.

tneva82 wrote:
Cheapest land raider I found was 242 pts. Not 180 pts.

And you assume that's only thing triumph does. Oh yes. Help destroy land raider and instantly self destructs. Yep yep. Makes sense.

Even if it did just self destruct I'd be tempted because whatever super death star that was rolling in that raider is now walking.

By his definition I don't think any support characters that don't somehow kill more than their points in one phase are worth taking

I’ve yet to see a competitive sisters build with that 185 point model.

Also, I said a LR was 180 points base in my first comment, so that’s where I get that.

Wether or not you use Triumph, I personally don’t care, my initial comment was that people who claim that an Exorcist (no mention of Triumph as support) can one-shot a LR like it’s a normal occurrence are flat out wrong.

It's certainly not a normal occurrence in my experience, and never was.

 davidgr33n wrote:
I personally don’t care, my initial comment was that people who claim that an Exorcist (no mention of Triumph as support) can one-shot a LR like it’s a normal occurrence are flat out wrong.

Well I'll keep you updated, so far we're 2/2 for doing at least 14ish wounds per go.

 Grundz wrote:

 davidgr33n wrote:
I personally don’t care, my initial comment was that people who claim that an Exorcist (no mention of Triumph as support) can one-shot a LR like it’s a normal occurrence are flat out wrong.

Well I'll keep you updated, so far we're 2/2 for doing at least 14ish wounds per go.

And I wish you the best of luck - we’re all here to pump up our game so anything new I can learn is always welcome.

 davidgr33n wrote:
I’ve yet to see a competitive sisters build with that 185 point model.

Also, I said a LR was 180 points base in my first comment, so that’s where I get that.

Wether or not you use Triumph, I personally don’t care, my initial comment was that people who claim that an Exorcist (no mention of Triumph as support) can one-shot a LR like it’s a normal occurrence are flat out wrong.

So you mark down stuff that costs point and gives all sort of bonuses but somehow ignore mandatory weapons. "yeah it's fine. I'm cheaper than you because I don't count weapons yet you have to pay for everything for my analysis".

Yep yep.

tneva82 wrote:

 davidgr33n wrote:
I’ve yet to see a competitive sisters build with that 185 point model.

Also, I said a LR was 180 points base in my first comment, so that’s where I get that.

Wether or not you use Triumph, I personally don’t care, my initial comment was that people who claim that an Exorcist (no mention of Triumph as support) can one-shot a LR like it’s a normal occurrence are flat out wrong.

So you mark down stuff that costs point and gives all sort of bonuses but somehow ignore mandatory weapons. "yeah it's fine. I'm cheaper than you because I don't count weapons yet you have to pay for everything for my analysis".

Yep yep.

let it go, I'm really not worried about what someone who'se played for 10 years but hasn't made a shot with a 5% probability in that timeframe :p

A LR once, mainly because LRs haven’t been in my meta for a long time - but I have one-shot 3 Monoliths and a 2 questor Knights over the last few years (though I skipped 7th and sisters beta dex). The point stands it’s not a common occurrence with “un-supported” Exos.