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 davidgr33n wrote:
A LR once, mainly because LRs haven’t been in my meta for a long time - but I have one-shot 3 Monoliths and a 2 questor Knights over the last few years (though I skipped 7th and sisters beta dex). The point stands it’s not a common occurrence with “un-supported” Exos.

It's not even commonplace with support exorcists. I don't think they even used to be able to kill a land raider at all.

I'm with davidgr33n. A five percent chance isn't exactly common.

I simmed it last night out of curiosity. It was closer to 3-4% with no support of any kind, with a 1/6 chance of doing 0 damage to a Land Raider in the open. With a Miracle Die and Divine Guidance the odds improved to ~8% of destroying a no-cover Land Raider outright but only lowered the odds of whiffing to 1 in 7. Median damage was around 6 wounds, 7 with Divine Guidance and a Miracle Die.

Basically, it takes at least two Exorcists (more likely three) to take out one Land Raider.

Okay so what is the point of killing a land raider when I can just touch it with a single Seraphim from turn 2 and shut the whole thing down.

That's actually not true. Even with a miracle die and in melta range, 4 inferno pistol shots have a 20% chance of doing nothing to a Land Raider. Add in an overcharged plasma pistol and that drops to just under 15%

Outside of melta range, the 4 inferno pistols only have a 1 in 15 (6.56%) chance of doing 12+ wound with a miracle die. The median is 5.158, mode 0. The plasma pistol brings this up to 9%, with the median damage only increasing by 0.5.


Inside melta range, the median for just the four inferno pistols is 6.2 -- or about half a wound. You still have a 1 in 5 chance of your inferno pistols doing nothing, but your odds of crippling the Land Raider go up to 1 in 8 - almost double what they were before. A plasma pistol shifts the median to 6.8, your odds of doing nothing drop to under 15%, and your odds of crippling the tank go to 16.4% (1 in 6).

So, will a squad of Seraphim cripple a Land Raider? Inside melta range, probably. Otherwise, no. Will a single seraphim cripple one? Most likely not.

Edit: just checked the numbers for a single seraphim. Outside melta range, 0.43% of doing 12 damage -- 1 in 233. Inside melta range, 1.28% -- 1 in 78. There's a 44.5% change she whiffs entirely, or almost 1 in 2. That includes a miracle die, but no rerolling for a Canoness or CP.

I'm pretty sure by shutting it down, Lemondish meant by tripointing it (locking it in combat), not killing it.

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:
I'm pretty sure by shutting it down, Lemondish meant by tripointing it (locking it in combat), not killing it.

This.

Single seraphim isn't tripointing anything. And doubt even 5 can surround enough while staying coherency. Rather just tag and force to fall back so short of ultramarine can't shoot

Look, why are we fixating on a Land Raider anyways? It's not seen competitively. In friendly games you chuckle, say "how cute" and obliterate it whether its one exorcist or 20. No tank can stand up to the might of the Sisters of Battle. Its irrelevant how many melta shots it takes, because we HAVE that many... and more. So hooray us.

I think the point is rather moot. The only armies I have learned have a chance against me are massed AP -3 firepoower that have incredible range like say... IMperial Fists for round 1 (in which case i learned the hard way just to stand outside that range for a round, force them to change doctrines and life is good) or bad deployment against the alpha armies like Raven Guard and Blood Angels. Even then, there is a lot you can do about that, and its mostly bad deployment that will get you in trouble because lord know the Death Company are only going to get one round before they are dead as a doornail.

So REALLY its just the super long range massed firepower that could get you because you might spend a bit too long in its sites while getting there. At end of day, if we dont pay attention to terrain we are gonna' lose, so decent terrain is a must for us and any squishy army.

Sisters of Battle seem really good so far. I've taken incredible beatings as far as the models lost in games, but the scores tell a different tale. We can SCORE! We can take it to the hole and absolutely score despite horrendous losses.

You just have to have an iron stomach with these ladies because you just are going to lose a boat load of Sisters in a lot of games.

But as for Land Raiders and tanks in general: I don't know that I am concerned that much about those. My list averages 35 STR 8 weapons. So bring it.

Miracle dice lexicon:

5,6 Damage roll dice
3,4 Character save dice
1,2 Morale check dice

Pleased to be of service.

tneva82 wrote:
You can replace as many dice in single roll with one act. Charge is single roll so you can replace 1 or 2 dice. Single shooting attack is single roll. Exorcist has 3d3 individual attacks. You need one act per one attack.

check the FAQ for clarification.

That make sense, Thanks for clarification.

 Jancoran wrote:
Look, why are we fixating on a Land Raider anyways?

Because zeroing in on a small part of a paragraph for no reason and complaining about it gives a reason to post and a fast track to getting attention.

For my part, it was more sating curiosity to the claim that there was only a 5% chance of one-shotting one. Just kind of spiraled from there!

So seraphim/zeryaphim are coming out soon what are people's thoughts about them both from casual and competitive stance?

Ran junith with three full squads of double inferno seraphim. Hard to put down fast antitank that got better once the squad loses a girl is pretty scary but even with a 4++ that t3 really makes things rough on the receiving end. Felt very glass cannon but more cannon than glass.

Was also thinking of trying out an imagifier with book of St lucius to extend a str/ap aura and just move advance to keep up with some zeryphim to make them s4 reroll to wounds. On average her increased range aura will still be in range of full movement zeryphim from two turns. Could even blow a miracle die to keep up in range. Only problem would be to keep her from being picked off. S4 vs S3 only matters on t3- t4, and t6-7. Assuming bloody rose s4 full squad puts out 31 attacks 20.46 hits, 15.35 wounds on meqs while s3 is 11.27.

Anyone think the 4.08 wounds and extra ap protection is worth it?

Oberron wrote:
So seraphim/zeryaphim are coming out soon what are people's thoughts about them both from casual and competitive stance?

Ran junith with three full squads of double inferno seraphim. Hard to put down fast antitank that got better once the squad loses a girl is pretty scary but even with a 4++ that t3 really makes things rough on the receiving end. Felt very glass cannon but more cannon than glass.

Was also thinking of trying out an imagifier with book of St lucius to extend a str/ap aura and just move advance to keep up with some zeryphim to make them s4 reroll to wounds. On average her increased range aura will still be in range of full movement zeryphim from two turns. Could even blow a miracle die to keep up in range. Only problem would be to keep her from being picked off. S4 vs S3 only matters on t3- t4, and t6-7. Assuming bloody rose s4 full squad puts out 31 attacks 20.46 hits, 15.35 wounds on meqs while s3 is 11.27.

Anyone think the 4.08 wounds and extra ap protection is worth it?

Both Seraphim and Zephyrim are significant in our competitive builds. Imagifiers are awesome for both VH and BR, but are easier to use as support for core forces and BR Repentia than Seraphim/Zephyrim.

Taikishi wrote:
That's actually not true.

Yes, it is. Because shutting down a platform with those heavy weapons happens when you touch it in combat.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:
Single seraphim isn't tripointing anything. And doubt even 5 can surround enough while staying coherency. Rather just tag and force to fall back so short of ultramarine can't shoot

Exactly this.

This is 100% what I meant.

Thinking of running 2 battalions of VH with massed sisters and exorcist etc then a vanguard of bloody rose with a cannonness using the BR relic chainsword . In the vanguard I'm wanting to run a bit unit of repentia in a rhino with done Zepharim and possibly a celestians squad for a bit of punch.

So I just started building the army and I've got a couple of questions. For those running larger sisters squads, are you using simulacrum in those squads? If you are is it an always thing or just there's 10 points left over so you add a couple?

Triumph of Saint Katherine, has anyone actually used it? Looking for actual game results, it doesn't seem super competitive but was it fun and do cool things? Wondering if I should replace the one I converted into 6 characters.

Thanks for your replies

willt!@967 wrote:
So I just started building the army and I've got a couple of questions. For those running larger sisters squads, are you using simulacrum in those squads? If you are is it an always thing or just there's 10 points left over so you add a couple?

Triumph of Saint Katherine, has anyone actually used it? Looking for actual game results, it doesn't seem super competitive but was it fun and do cool things? Wondering if I should replace the one I converted into 6 characters.

Thanks for your replies

I use 15 sister squads. I always include the Simulacrum Imperialis. my melta guns embedded in there absolutely love overwatch 6's for example against an expensive shredbot. I love it for damage rolls. I mean why leave things to chance when you get your chance? even a 1 for morale can be huge. with dialogus around, you can get a lot from the roll.

I am really sure you could get more bodies if you didn't take the flags of course. But that feels like just more lambs for the slaughter. I like raw efficacy and things doing what they should, when they should. I bought meltas for the chance to obliterate that dreadnough/Daemon prince/whatever and I can get three chances at it in place of 1? Yes please?

willt!@967 wrote:
So I just started building the army and I've got a couple of questions. For those running larger sisters squads, are you using simulacrum in those squads? If you are is it an always thing or just there's 10 points left over so you add a couple?

Triumph of Saint Katherine, has anyone actually used it? Looking for actual game results, it doesn't seem super competitive but was it fun and do cool things? Wondering if I should replace the one I converted into 6 characters.

Thanks for your replies

I'm painting triumph to try. Got bit more interesting when I noticed she generates MD on each turn so you get one on your turn and another on opponent. And even if opponent goes first you are 100% quaranteed to have 2 MD(3 if you have terrain piece). This gives you hopefully 1-2 automatic pass for inv save or at least chance to turn 3 to 4. Add to that decent terrain so you can hide(remember it's infantry so can move past ruins and not much guns so advance on t1 to clear ruin isn't issue) and it shouldn't be that quickly dead.

Oh and if you are worried about survival you could consider allying with IG for some indirect fire(which sisters lack) and some bullgryns. You lose sacred rites which aren't that huge and get that indirect fire and ability to use -1 to hit stratagem for bullgryns to protect triumph. -2 to hit triumph is tough enough if opponent tries to take she'll be wonderful bullet magnet taking quite a lot of resources from enemy guns.

tneva82 wrote:

I'm painting triumph to try. Got bit more interesting when I noticed she generates MD on each turn so you get one on your turn and another on opponent. And even if opponent goes first you are 100% quaranteed to have 2 MD(3 if you have terrain piece). This gives you hopefully 1-2 automatic pass for inv save or at least chance to turn 3 to 4. Add to that decent terrain so you can hide(remember it's infantry so can move past ruins and not much guns so advance on t1 to clear ruin isn't issue) and it shouldn't be that quickly dead.

Triumph is pretty fun, and with line of sight blocking cover it isn't that big of a deal, the problem I have with it is that it doesn't synergize with the list you want to put it in very well.

a faith heavy list, it can replace all your faith support but the infantry using all that faith really do nothing for it and its a huge target
in a more faith light list, it can push exorcists and double melta immolators over the top, and they can protect it by blocking line of sight, this seems to be the way to go
in a melee based list, there's no way to protect it on the way in, it isn't all that much of a beatstick but folks like to focus it like it is

Well for melee army you could consider those bullgryns. -2 to hit at triumph is pretty hard. And bullgryn is another melee threat

tneva82 wrote:
Well for melee army you could consider those bullgryns. -2 to hit at triumph is pretty hard. And bullgryn is another melee threat

sisters melee options which are buffed by triumph are typically glass cannons that hit insanely hard and have very long (miracle enhanced) charge ranges.

that doesn't synergize the best with guard

Triumph isn't generally doing that though. Triumph is more of support and getting her alive near the enemy to support is helpful. Unit of bullgryns keeps up with triump fine enough. Rest of the IG could be indirect fire which is something sisters are in lacking with maybe couple squads of infantry to provide deep strike push zones.

While true, I think it'd be better to just have more Celestians and Repentia and Zephyrim and give them The Passion, if you want a close combat oriented Sisters force.

Compared to bullgryn melee strength sure. None of those would protect triumph though.

Yeah but the points you save in NOT taking Triumph can also be directed towards more canonesses, celestians, zephyrim, and repentia soooooo....

I know that's not helpful for people who love the Triumph, but well, it's really not a very good unit for that style of play.

So...how the Feth are we supposed to use the battle sanctum? Do you think it comes with more rules because like...if it's just what's in the codex it's actually super busted for a 50 point terrain piece.

You can assemble the structure part just about anyway you want to and put the statue totally separate, all the way across the board. Between the two you can guarantee cover for your important infantry units(and maybe even vehicles if you're tricky enough) guarantee a good vantage point for retributors, guarantee LoS blocking for characters and give HUGE auras of +1 leadership to us -1 leadership to chaos. The guaranteed miracle dice is just the cherry at that point.

ERJAK wrote:
So...how the Feth are we supposed to use the battle sanctum? Do you think it comes with more rules because like...if it's just what's in the codex it's actually super busted for a 50 point terrain piece.

You can assemble the structure part just about anyway you want to and put the statue totally separate, all the way across the board. Between the two you can guarantee cover for your important infantry units(and maybe even vehicles if you're tricky enough) guarantee a good vantage point for retributors, guarantee LoS blocking for characters and give HUGE auras of +1 leadership to us -1 leadership to chaos. The guaranteed miracle dice is just the cherry at that point.

this is exactly how the imperial gunline was, you get the gun, then you get the barricades which you can deploy however you want within the rules stated, as far as I can tell the rules would be centered on the statue and the building is just a bonus.
also remember that it costs you a detachment.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Melissia wrote:
Yeah but the points you save in NOT taking Triumph can also be directed towards more canonesses, celestians, zephyrim, and repentia soooooo....

I know that's not helpful for people who love the Triumph, but well, it's really not a very good unit for that style of play.

Right, the trouble with triumph is the kind of army which makes good use of its abilities, and the kind in which you actually can afford to put it in, are two different armies.

if it had some legit vehicle buffs to crank up mech sisters it could be a thing, but the combination of wanting to play lots of close up infantry and being the prime target in an army of close up infantry is a tough sell.

it is a lot of fun though, I'll keep running it.

I interpreted the piece the opposite way - the everything within the "C" formed by the walls is within the terrain and the statute is just decorative since it talks about being able to put it onto of the rest of the terrain.

It will hopefully be clarified.