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If I'm understanding the rules right for Assassins I can add an Assassin to a detachment of Sisters and they don't lose their Order Conviction?

The rules for them state "If your army is Battleforged and contains the Imperium keyword in a Patrol, Battalion or Brigade detachment this model may be included without taking up a force slot, does not prevent that detachment from gaining Detachment abilities (ie Chapter Tactics, Defenders of Humanity, etc, and does not prevent models in your army from benefiting from abilities that require every model in the army to have the same ability (e.g Combat Doctrines).

So I'm to assume that Order Convictions would not be lost as it's a Detachment ability?

Correct.

Haven't got that book yet but is that only for assasin takes as fixed slot but with stratagem you would lose? In any case might have to get the book. Though vindicare taking nerf in 9th but anti-psyker could be handy but rather specialized...Which is why stratagem assasin would be better.

Only thing I'm worried about is losing Sacred Rites. From the wording of the 3rd condition it sounds like it wouldn't because the Sacred Rites state that "all units have to have "AS or AM" keyword to get SR but the 3rd condition sounds like it negates that requirement even though "keyword" =/= "ability".

Some of those are pretty good. Not sure it'd be worth losing 2 Rites for an Assassin.

tneva82 wrote:
Correct.

Haven't got that book yet but is that only for assasin takes as fixed slot but with stratagem you would lose? In any case might have to get the book. Though vindicare taking nerf in 9th but anti-psyker could be handy but rather specialized...Which is why stratagem assasin would be better.

The stratagem has changed from "Add an Assassin" to "Swap an Assassin you already have with one from a different temple"

Pariah is a bust. Reprint of the WD rules for Inquisition, three new datasheets. That's is. And I say 3 because the ToC listed on GW's Pariah reveal has Stern and her Harlequin "friend" on the same sheet, meaning you can't take one without the other.

jivardi wrote:
Only thing I'm worried about is losing Sacred Rites. From the wording of the 3rd condition it sounds like it wouldn't because the Sacred Rites state that "all units have to have "AS or AM" keyword to get SR but the 3rd condition sounds like it negates that requirement even though "keyword" =/= "ability".

Some of those are pretty good. Not sure it'd be worth losing 2 Rites for an Assassin.

You 100% lose sacred rites, same as doctines. As for ot being worth, in 8th...maybe. In 9th the new character rules wreck assassins so probably not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Taikishi wrote:
Pariah is a bust. Reprint of the WD rules for Inquisition, three new datasheets. That's is. And I say 3 because the ToC listed on GW's Pariah reveal has Stern and her Harlequin "friend" on the same sheet, meaning you can't take one without the other.

That's a fun way to make sure no one ever takes either of them.

Assasin's now don't cost you sacred rites same as Inquisitors. Provided you have max 1 in patrol/bat/brigade.

Got today my 2nd game with triumph and boy does that thing turn exorcists from good to silly. I'm starting to think if point changes aren't cruel for those that could be powerful combo(maybe not top tournament meta but outside that quite nasty combo). Today my 2 exorcists first were blowing up things left and right and thanks to triumph return fire was struggling to deal. By the end of turn 5(when game ended) of the 2 exorcist I had one had 9 wounds in and other was unhurt! (albeit in melee with warden knight...).

The ability to pass 2 inv saves with 5+ dices is pretty sweet. Oh and triumph turns all those 2's and 3's quite interesting as well...Like today when I got 3 past saves vs razorback. 10 wounds to go through. Roll my first damage roll. 4. Pretty good. 6 left. Now I COULD use 5 or 6 for maximum damage and kill it flat out...But those are valuable for his shooting phase. So 6 damage left. I could pick up two 2's from my MD pool and with triumph both are 3 so dead. Or I can even roll for 2nd and even if I don't roll enough I can still use MD. Say I roll 4. I can then pick up the 1 from my MD pool and it becomes the needed 2.

With the +1 on MD dices those 2's and 3's start to be lot more useful at giving me reliable damage output.

Opponent wasn't too happy and as I took out his razorbacks and helverins first up his AT power took quite a dent ensuring that the 2 automatic passes combined with VH resiliency made exorcist hard thing to counter. Took the warden knight crashing toward them to stop them on track finally on turn 5(and he still had to deal with them. Albeit the exorcist survived because he tried to kill my warlord but flat out failed to kill canoness with questor class knight )

ERJAK wrote:

jivardi wrote:
Only thing I'm worried about is losing Sacred Rites. From the wording of the 3rd condition it sounds like it wouldn't because the Sacred Rites state that "all units have to have "AS or AM" keyword to get SR but the 3rd condition sounds like it negates that requirement even though "keyword" =/= "ability".

Some of those are pretty good. Not sure it'd be worth losing 2 Rites for an Assassin.

You 100% lose sacred rites, same as doctines. As for ot being worth, in 8th...maybe. In 9th the new character rules wreck assassins so probably not.

It's the general consensus over in YMDC that Sisters DON'T lose order convictions, just that Assassins don't benefit from them.

I'm sure it'll get FAQ'd.

So with the new strategic reserve rules announced are there any units you've been eyeing up to hold off the board?

I was sorta thinking about Repentia

 Sgt.Sunshine wrote:
So with the new strategic reserve rules announced are there any units you've been eyeing up to hold off the board?

I was sorta thinking about Repentia

I like 3 Mortifiers coming in on the flank and would cost 1CP, too bad they don’t benefit from miracle dice to help with the charge.

Speaking of Mortifiers, with all the changes I sorta regret assembling mine with flails. It seems like hordes are dying and being able to shoot your heavy bolters in combat seems like it'd help make up for the drop in attacks for taking saws.

 Sgt.Sunshine wrote:
Speaking of Mortifiers, with all the changes I sorta regret assembling mine with flails. It seems like hordes are dying and being able to shoot your heavy bolters in combat seems like it'd help make up for the drop in attacks for taking saws.

H.bolters have been go to with morts as well.

And saws you basically need t7 3+ or 2+ save to be worth it over flails. Even vs primaris you are looking at flails at even. How many t7 vehicles you plan to charge?

Unless flails become more expensive than saws they are go to. Oh and nevermind vs anything with 2 or more wounds with fnp or 3 wound models which hurts saw

Any primaris 2w infantry it's about wash. Custodes, aggressors etc flails. Fellow sisters walkers flails. De has grotesques etc flails. Targets saws are good are soooo few. Helverin/warglaive is good example of those. Immolators, rhinos etc another

Well good to know the math works out for flails.

Mind you with complete point review coming with new edition no quarantee they will stay same cost. Saw could(and without stat upgrade like flat dam 3 which would give more targets it's better than flail) be cheaper option.

With flat3 vs t8 3+ saw would cause about 2.5x damage, would be splatting custodians 1.48 per walker vs 2.22 wounds by flail. Flail would still be equal vs primaris, better vs w1 stuff and not as much hurt as saw is vs multiwound stuff with fnp

I could take 2 5 girl Dominion squads with meltaguns in rhinos and for 2 cp keep them in reserve than bring them in in turn 2 or 3 to slow down or wreck possible threats that my excorsits and bolters can't deal with without exposing said units to enemy firepower turn 1.

Or the same squads in Immolators but that'd be 1 CP more. It'd help get the immos into enemy lines without fear of turn 1 destruction but that's a lot of CP pregame.

jivardi wrote:
I could take 2 5 girl Dominion squads with meltaguns in rhinos and for 2 cp keep them in reserve than bring them in in turn 2 or 3 to slow down or wreck possible threats that my excorsits and bolters can't deal with without exposing said units to enemy firepower turn 1.

Or the same squads in Immolators but that'd be 1 CP more. It'd help get the immos into enemy lines without fear of turn 1 destruction but that's a lot of CP pregame.

Are you taking them in rhinos just to for the extra threat range when they disembark or to protect them a bit more? I thought the deployment prevented movement when they come in.

Rhino wall.

So with the new morale rules and only 1 model flees from a failed morale test and then 1/6 per model (1/3 under half strength) from combat attrition. do we think the only 1 model can flee from morale rules like from sacred rose works on combat attrition? if not that makes a double nerf to the order (overwatch change morale change)

you will have to wait for the FAQ and full rules their are lots of sub factions that effect moral/overwatch which have been nerfed across different armies - for all we know GW will change their wording entirely


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sgt.Sunshine wrote:

jivardi wrote:
I could take 2 5 girl Dominion squads with meltaguns in rhinos and for 2 cp keep them in reserve than bring them in in turn 2 or 3 to slow down or wreck possible threats that my excorsits and bolters can't deal with without exposing said units to enemy firepower turn 1.

Or the same squads in Immolators but that'd be 1 CP more. It'd help get the immos into enemy lines without fear of turn 1 destruction but that's a lot of CP pregame.

Are you taking them in rhinos just to for the extra threat range when they disembark or to protect them a bit more? I thought the deployment prevented movement when they come in.

seems a valid concept but your not wrecking anything till T3 if that T1 in reserve T2 deploy in rhino T3 drop out of rhino if they didnt blow up rhino and shoot you first.

You would be better off either using seraphim or just putting the squads in reserve without rhino that way you shoot on T2

What's the current PL on an optimized Repentia bomb in Rhino? That's about the only thing I can imagine wanting on a turn 2-3 flank. Maybe a big unit of walkers. Even then I dont know that it will be worth the CP... the CP differential we've been enjoying will soon be gone and we will have fewer than were used to on top of that, so I suspect I'll be sticking with jump troops as reserves.

I am going to start looking at mech lists again, maybe a Battalion with triple melta BSS x3 in Immolators for early game board control and AT threat and melee bombs of Repentia and Celestians with support characters in Rhinos. I really enjoyed running 3x Exos, 3x Rhinos, and 3x Immos in 8th... nobody ever shut the whole party down.

I think it comes to 9 exactly if you take the preacher instead of the missionary

 MacPhail wrote:
What's the current PL on an optimized Repentia bomb in Rhino? That's about the only thing I can imagine wanting on a turn 2-3 flank. Maybe a big unit of walkers. Even then I dont know that it will be worth the CP... the CP differential we've been enjoying will soon be gone and we will have fewer than were used to on top of that, so I suspect I'll be sticking with jump troops as reserves.

I am going to start looking at mech lists again, maybe a Battalion with triple melta BSS x3 in Immolators for early game board control and AT threat and melee bombs of Repentia and Celestians with support characters in Rhinos. I really enjoyed running 3x Exos, 3x Rhinos, and 3x Immos in 8th... nobody ever shut the whole party down.

Mortifiers and pengines. 3 morties is exacly 9pl.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jivardi wrote:
Rhino wall.

I think you mean 'suicide pinatas' the rhinos can't go anywhere and can't pop smoke; the troops can't get out. You're essentially just giving your opponent a free turn to deal with them, after being kind enough to let them spend the first turn dealing with everything else without worrying about the rhinos. Same with trying to pop in repentia or arcos. Immolators might be a useful thing to outflank...if immolators weren't terrible.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

jivardi wrote:

ERJAK wrote:

jivardi wrote:
Only thing I'm worried about is losing Sacred Rites. From the wording of the 3rd condition it sounds like it wouldn't because the Sacred Rites state that "all units have to have "AS or AM" keyword to get SR but the 3rd condition sounds like it negates that requirement even though "keyword" =/= "ability".

Some of those are pretty good. Not sure it'd be worth losing 2 Rites for an Assassin.

You 100% lose sacred rites, same as doctines. As for ot being worth, in 8th...maybe. In 9th the new character rules wreck assassins so probably not.

It's the general consensus over in YMDC that Sisters DON'T lose order convictions, just that Assassins don't benefit from them.

I'm sure it'll get FAQ'd.

They must have updated the assassins inclusion rules and I missed it then because RAW, as soon as the assassin is part of your army, not every unit is Sororitas or Ministorum, so the ability shuts off.

Looking at that thread, it looks like they updated the assasins rules in war of the spider so they don't break mono-army bonuses anymore.

I still don't think they're very good with the new LoS rules.

Oof. FLY no longer allows Fall Back and Shoot... my Seraphim just shrunk back down to minmax, I think. Maybe pairing them with Zephyrim will make enough of a difference to free them from melee before their own Shooting phase?

 MacPhail wrote:
Oof. FLY no longer allows Fall Back and Shoot... my Seraphim just shrunk back down to minmax, I think. Maybe pairing them with Zephyrim will make enough of a difference to free them from melee before their own Shooting phase?

I imagine the reason you want then to be freed from melee is so that you aren't forced to shoot the target they're in combat with?

Lemondish wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:
Oof. FLY no longer allows Fall Back and Shoot... my Seraphim just shrunk back down to minmax, I think. Maybe pairing them with Zephyrim will make enough of a difference to free them from melee before their own Shooting phase?

I imagine the reason you want then to be freed from melee is so that you aren't forced to shoot the target they're in combat with?

Yeah, that and freeing up their opponent in the shooting phase. I had been taking 7x units to ensure two good rounds of shooting. Falling back from countercharging Plague Marines to shoot Plagueburst Crawlers would be a typical scenario, or from Necron Warriors to shoot Destroyers. It's probably a necessary rules shift and not a devastating one, but one that will force some changes.

 MacPhail wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:
Oof. FLY no longer allows Fall Back and Shoot... my Seraphim just shrunk back down to minmax, I think. Maybe pairing them with Zephyrim will make enough of a difference to free them from melee before their own Shooting phase?

I imagine the reason you want then to be freed from melee is so that you aren't forced to shoot the target they're in combat with?

Yeah, that and freeing up their opponent in the shooting phase. I had been taking 7x units to ensure two good rounds of shooting. Falling back from countercharging Plague Marines to shoot Plagueburst Crawlers would be a typical scenario, or from Necron Warriors to shoot Destroyers. It's probably a necessary rules shift and not a devastating one, but one that will force some changes.

It's weird that your seraphim live that long. Are they valorous heart? Because even just standard rapid fire bolters shred seraphim pretty good.

ERJAK wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:
Oof. FLY no longer allows Fall Back and Shoot... my Seraphim just shrunk back down to minmax, I think. Maybe pairing them with Zephyrim will make enough of a difference to free them from melee before their own Shooting phase?

I imagine the reason you want then to be freed from melee is so that you aren't forced to shoot the target they're in combat with?

Yeah, that and freeing up their opponent in the shooting phase. I had been taking 7x units to ensure two good rounds of shooting. Falling back from countercharging Plague Marines to shoot Plagueburst Crawlers would be a typical scenario, or from Necron Warriors to shoot Destroyers. It's probably a necessary rules shift and not a devastating one, but one that will force some changes.

It's weird that your seraphim live that long. Are they valorous heart? Because even just standard rapid fire bolters shred seraphim pretty good.

No, they don't live long at all. I had been running 2x7 with IPs. They drop on turns 2 and 3 with Deadly Descent and each unit typically hits a tank or monster, gets shot up and/or countercharged pretty hard, and about half the time they live to Fall Back and shoot again, so not much more than two turns on the board. Often it's just 1-2 models of the original 7 that survive, but when that means 4 inferno pistols with Miracle Dice, it's plenty. When they don't survive I'm usually happy with what my opponent invests in eliminating the AT threat. And yeah, they're usually Valorous Heart, and by the time they start dropping on T2 I can sometimes manage a defensive buff aura waiting in their drop zone.

ERJAK wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:

Lemondish wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:
Oof. FLY no longer allows Fall Back and Shoot... my Seraphim just shrunk back down to minmax, I think. Maybe pairing them with Zephyrim will make enough of a difference to free them from melee before their own Shooting phase?

I imagine the reason you want then to be freed from melee is so that you aren't forced to shoot the target they're in combat with?

Yeah, that and freeing up their opponent in the shooting phase. I had been taking 7x units to ensure two good rounds of shooting. Falling back from countercharging Plague Marines to shoot Plagueburst Crawlers would be a typical scenario, or from Necron Warriors to shoot Destroyers. It's probably a necessary rules shift and not a devastating one, but one that will force some changes.

It's weird that your seraphim live that long. Are they valorous heart? Because even just standard rapid fire bolters shred seraphim pretty good.

I find that seraphim are pretty bullet-spongy for their cost. And they don't need to live that long, they only need to live long enough to perform their mission.

 davidgr33n wrote:

 Sgt.Sunshine wrote:
So with the new strategic reserve rules announced are there any units you've been eyeing up to hold off the board?

I was sorta thinking about Repentia

I like 3 Mortifiers coming in on the flank and would cost 1CP, too bad they don’t benefit from miracle dice to help with the charge.

depending if they can advance or not from flank it wouldn't be to bad to use holy rage on them so they can advance, shoot, and charge

Hello, is there any general consensus on the matter of playing the germinae with Celestine? Are they dispensable or strongly advised?

Also, when the codex states that germinae can attempt to intercept attacks done against Celestine, does it only apply for fight phase or can it be done against shooting attacks?

Thanks in advance!