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 generalchaos34 wrote:

Im currently sitting on a 4th one in box that I am considering selling. Since I already have 3 im thinking I probably should just get rid of it (I got it as part of a cool mystery box promotion). Although....a mini horde of MM immilators does seem useful enough. What do you guys think?

Depends on what you want more, the potentually useful and always fun Immolator or the extra coin...

It's not an in-demand-meta model, and I've enjoyed driving them round the board. Maybe they'll be great again one day soon.

Lammia wrote:

 generalchaos34 wrote:

Im currently sitting on a 4th one in box that I am considering selling. Since I already have 3 im thinking I probably should just get rid of it (I got it as part of a cool mystery box promotion). Although....a mini horde of MM immilators does seem useful enough. What do you guys think?

Depends on what you want more, the potentually useful and always fun Immolator or the extra coin...

It's not an in-demand-meta model, and I've enjoyed driving them round the board. Maybe they'll be great again one day soon.

Funny story about getting the Immolators. I originally only wanted 2 to match my 2 rhinos. One of the ones I received had a busted Stained Glass window so GW sent me a whole new one. Fast forward to now and now I have a mystery box that gives me a total of 4! I think if anything it will look sweet on a shelf with those beautiful stained glass windows. The real question now is do I sell my spare box of Battle Sisters or wait for a meta shift in case I need more Flamers/Meltas/Storm Bolters, etc and do I just convert the heck out of my spare Dialogus? I almost never see anyone taking one dialogus much less 2, although I can see them having a lot of use in a Martyred Lady list.

How are Death Cult Assassins in terms of value for points?

I've never really considered them because I hate finecast, but I just learned that the Cypher Lords from Warcry make excellent proxies. Really love the look of them.

-Guardsman- wrote:
How are Death Cult Assassins in terms of value for points?

I've never really considered them because I hate finecast, but I just learned that the Cypher Lords from Warcry make excellent proxies. Really love the look of them.

They are slower howling banshees with twice the attacks... and a randomly gimped unit size of 6..

iv used them off and on since 3rd edition and they have always performed decently if I could get them into melee, they are a bit squishy but they are the cheapest of the 3, they make a decent counter charge or deterent unit

 warmaster21 wrote:
and a randomly gimped unit size of 6.

Yeah, the 2-6 unit size is definitely odd; you'd expect this sort of thing for a far more elite kind of unit. But perhaps this can make transport-sharing easier. E.g. a transport with a squad of 5 Sisters, a character, and a squad of 4 Death Cult Assassins. Or 4+5 DC Assassins and a character.

A pair of them or two could also be good for area denial vs. deep strike.

Other than blendering 1 Wound targets, I can't imagine anything DCA can do that you can't do with more deadly Repentia. Either unit will die to a stiff breeze, but you can enhance Repentia with Order specific abilities and Order Convictions while DCA run along (except for Priest buff).

Minimum units of DCA actually work well as "action slave" units. They outflank in, Deploy Scramblers or something, and then die horribly, having fulfilled their purpose in the list. At least one guy with top table finishes in a couple of events uses 2 units of them like this.

What is our favorite unit for that task (actions) in a pure sisters army? I could see some Battalions having room for an extra Preacher.

 MacPhail wrote:
What is our favorite unit for that task (actions) in a pure sisters army? I could see some Battalions having room for an extra Preacher.

I use a combination of BSS and min seraphim. But I can see the DCA logic

Lammia wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:
What is our favorite unit for that task (actions) in a pure sisters army? I could see some Battalions having room for an extra Preacher.

I use a combination of BSS and min seraphim. But I can see the DCA logic

Yep, I think I'll stick with a BSS with heavy bolter for camping and occasional actions. I haven't really taken many action based secondaries.

I did just pick up a Dialogus and a Hospitaller for the sake of the models, which are both very cool. Is anyone getting any use of them on the table, or are they just for the showcase?

 alextroy wrote:
Other than blendering 1 Wound targets, I can't imagine anything DCA can do that you can't do with more deadly Repentia. Either unit will die to a stiff breeze, but you can enhance Repentia with Order specific abilities and Order Convictions while DCA run along (except for Priest buff).

Be cheap objective holder/action. The minimum price for unit is　pretty small. Rather than kill anything i would use them to sit on objectives and do actions. Cheaper to have them on objective than repentia

Not sure how good they are for that but if i felt desperate to use them that would be the way i would go for.

I take 2 or 3 units of Repentia, 1 is always in strategic reserves, putting 2 units of DCA into reserves for that same 1CP is amazing.

DCA will insure that I can get all my secondaries without trying. Also they are not characters so they don't help give up assassination and can do more actions.

Deploy Scramblers is one of the secondaries they can do, if I do not have a clear 3rd secondary (its hard against marines sometimes to fine a good 3rd pick), i just take Scramblers, that way no matter what my opponent is taking. Sure its max 90pts vs 100, but that only matters if I want to take 1st in a major event.

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I take 2 or 3 units of Repentia, 1 is always in strategic reserves, putting 2 units of DCA into reserves for that same 1CP is amazing.

DCA will insure that I can get all my secondaries without trying. Also they are not characters so they don't help give up assassination and can do more actions.

Deploy Scramblers is one of the secondaries they can do, if I do not have a clear 3rd secondary (its hard against marines sometimes to fine a good 3rd pick), i just take Scramblers, that way no matter what my opponent is taking. Sure its max 90pts vs 100, but that only matters if I want to take 1st in a major event.

Do you really need DCA for that though? With how good deadly descent Seraphim are, there's really no list I would build that wouldn't have 2 units of them and 2 units of seraphim get scramblers completely for free.

ERJAK wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:
I take 2 or 3 units of Repentia, 1 is always in strategic reserves, putting 2 units of DCA into reserves for that same 1CP is amazing.

DCA will insure that I can get all my secondaries without trying. Also they are not characters so they don't help give up assassination and can do more actions.

Deploy Scramblers is one of the secondaries they can do, if I do not have a clear 3rd secondary (its hard against marines sometimes to fine a good 3rd pick), i just take Scramblers, that way no matter what my opponent is taking. Sure its max 90pts vs 100, but that only matters if I want to take 1st in a major event.

Do you really need DCA for that though? With how good deadly descent Seraphim are, there's really no list I would build that wouldn't have 2 units of them and 2 units of seraphim get scramblers completely for free.

Its he cheapest and easiest way, the alternative is to get another BSS which is the cost of 2x2 DCA and that 1 BSS is only 1 unit not 2, so if they die now i need to spend another unit and more points to do the same thing. Sure I can use Seraphim but I don't always have that option, sometimes I need to shoot with them again (even if its just bolters) I play Blood Rose only, the -1ap on the pistols helps. But again I don't always have that option to do this turn 2 and turn 3.

So for me, yes they are wanted.

 MacPhail wrote:

Lammia wrote:

 MacPhail wrote:
What is our favorite unit for that task (actions) in a pure sisters army? I could see some Battalions having room for an extra Preacher.

I use a combination of BSS and min seraphim. But I can see the DCA logic

Yep, I think I'll stick with a BSS with heavy bolter for camping and occasional actions. I haven't really taken many action based secondaries.

I did just pick up a Dialogus and a Hospitaller for the sake of the models, which are both very cool. Is anyone getting any use of them on the table, or are they just for the showcase?

Hospitaller get some value in smaller games. I'm yet to see the place of Dialogus

Both Hospitaller and Dialogus work on lists based on lots of infantry models and multiple footslogging squads, which is something pretty uncommon. A Valorous Heart list with some 10 man squads and a few 5 man ones could be the archetype for these two characters.

Hospitaller is probably easier to make it work properly, all she needs is to resurrect a valuable model (like a Retributor carrying a multimelta) for 2-3 turns, for a Dialogus you need multiple units that rely on Acts of Faith, typically squads with melta dudes or even just a melta dude.

Both characters are rather suboptimal choices overall though. Hospitaller ability should be like Dialogus one, affecting every units within the bubble. Then she'd be a solid option.

Dialogus is great for 1k games where you can not take Triumph due to points restrictions and each MD has more value.

So, Goonhammer just released another Competitive Innovations article featuring the top lists from a GT in Australia (where apparently COVID really isn't a thing), and the winning list was a Sisters list. And it was very different, mainly using Valorous Heart Retributors and lots of BSS with Heavy Bolters, plus a small contingent of Bloody Rose for a single squad of Repentia and a couple of hand flamer Seraphim units, as well as a Vindicare Assassin. It basically trades the hard punching style of Bloody Rose for the super durable (when properly supported) Valorous Heart gunline. Very nice to know that there are a lot of ways to win with Sisters right now.

One list that I'm curious about that they didn't go super in-depth on in the article was one that combined Valorous Heart Sisters with Dark Angels Deathwing. Deathwing Knights could be an interesting alternative to Repentia if you don't mind not having Sacred Rites, as they are far more durable and hit harder. Soup really isn't encouraged under the new rules trends, but that's a combo that could work and apparently did, as the guy running it came in like 5th in the event.

Posted a new video today, and I was hoping to get some feedback on both the overall video as well as the information provided from you guys. It's part of a series that hopes to introduce players to Sisters and walk them through their first purchase to first 2,000 point army list. This video looks at Orders and how they play.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
So, Goonhammer just released another Competitive Innovations article featuring the top lists from a GT in Australia (where apparently COVID really isn't a thing), and the winning list was a Sisters list. And it was very different, mainly using Valorous Heart Retributors and lots of BSS with Heavy Bolters, plus a small contingent of Bloody Rose for a single squad of Repentia and a couple of hand flamer Seraphim units, as well as a Vindicare Assassin. It basically trades the hard punching style of Bloody Rose for the super durable (when properly supported) Valorous Heart gunline. Very nice to know that there are a lot of ways to win with Sisters right now.

One list that I'm curious about that they didn't go super in-depth on in the article was one that combined Valorous Heart Sisters with Dark Angels Deathwing. Deathwing Knights could be an interesting alternative to Repentia if you don't mind not having Sacred Rites, as they are far more durable and hit harder. Soup really isn't encouraged under the new rules trends, but that's a combo that could work and apparently did, as the guy running it came in like 5th in the event.

Vh and OLM Rets has been top picks since the MM update, its one of the best Melta gun units in the game now (+12" for 1 unit, 2 modes gets to shoot twice, when near Triumph/Dial gets to use 2 MD, etc...) so basically for turn 1-2 and sometimes turn 3 you have 12 36" meltas, VH gives them tankiness and OLM gives them +1 to hit, i prefer VH to OLM. Vindicare Assassin's are a hit or a miss, some players love them, some hates them. But they offer a role that no other unit can do, force certain heroes to stay behind cover, this also gives you another secondary you can take as it could kill a character a turn with some luck.

 Techpriest_ wrote:
Posted a new video today, and I was hoping to get some feedback on both the overall video as well as the information provided from you guys. It's part of a series that hopes to introduce players to Sisters and walk them through their first purchase to first 2,000 point army list. This video looks at Orders and how they play.

Ok, few thoughts. I love the use of 'Kill them with kindness'. 'Terrible Knowledge' isn't quite as good as you say, though it's still a good trait to give your WL and the 22 inch threat range(unsupported)on heavy flamer rets in 9th is actually quite good. I think a large number of us would rank AS over SR because of the usefullness of the Convictions and a point that you alluded too, Sisters have enough good universal WL traits, relics and even strategems that we don't need specific orders stuff.

Pretty good stuff all around though. Lots of info and interesting thoughts there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Martyr's Vengance also got Melta errata...

Lammia wrote:
Ok, few thoughts. I love the use of 'Kill them with kindness'. 'Terrible Knowledge' isn't quite as good as you say, though it's still a good trait to give your WL and the 22 inch threat range(unsupported)on heavy flamer rets in 9th is actually quite good. I think a large number of us would rank AS over SR because of the usefullness of the Convictions and a point that you alluded too, Sisters have enough good universal WL traits, relics and even strategems that we don't need specific orders stuff.

Pretty good stuff all around though. Lots of info and interesting thoughts there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Martyr's Vengance also got Melta errata...

Thanks, and I do agree Terrible Knowledge for me was an ability that is purely for Heroine in the Making if you don't happen to want to take any other traits beyond Beacon, as it's a free roll thanks to the CP refund. Fair point on the AS and SR rankings, I think what it really came down to for me was that one had more abilities that could do something than the other, so they had a bigger chance of finding a niche. Though the AS conviction is generally good and applies to everyone in the Order, so it may definitely give them an edge over SR.

 Techpriest_ wrote:

Lammia wrote:
Ok, few thoughts. I love the use of 'Kill them with kindness'. 'Terrible Knowledge' isn't quite as good as you say, though it's still a good trait to give your WL and the 22 inch threat range(unsupported)on heavy flamer rets in 9th is actually quite good. I think a large number of us would rank AS over SR because of the usefullness of the Convictions and a point that you alluded too, Sisters have enough good universal WL traits, relics and even strategems that we don't need specific orders stuff.

Pretty good stuff all around though. Lots of info and interesting thoughts there.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Martyr's Vengance also got Melta errata...

Thanks, and I do agree Terrible Knowledge for me was an ability that is purely for Heroine in the Making if you don't happen to want to take any other traits beyond Beacon, as it's a free roll thanks to the CP refund. Fair point on the AS and SR rankings, I think what it really came down to for me was that one had more abilities that could do something than the other, so they had a bigger chance of finding a niche. Though the AS conviction is generally good and applies to everyone in the Order, so it may definitely give them an edge over SR.

I would argue that AS is the third best conviction behind VH and BR. It beats out OoML because of their reliance on things dying, it beats out Ebon Chalice by being more universally applicable (even though EC's WT and Unique Strat are better, they're not that much better than the generic's) and Sacred Rose is just not very good.

Mobility is huge in 9th edition, especially for generally short ranged shooting like sisters have, being able to advance and fire out of a rhino/immolator or even just making your 4++ blob significantly more flexible is excellent value.

OOML and EC have top comp. placings* though, so I see why it was done that way...

((*Playing second fiddle to BR))

Lammia wrote:
OOML and EC have top comp. placings* though, so I see why it was done that way...

((*Playing second fiddle to BR))

I would argue that JUNITH had a top comp placing and that the OoML trait is just the tax you have to pay to get reroll ones to wound and +1 to SoF on the same body. AS seems the stronger trait without a very good special character propping them up. EC is really good at doing really specific things. If you're trying to do something EC excels at, it's great, but it is not at all a generalist trait and limits your list building option quite considerably compared to something like VH or AS.

If I had to order it for 'what is the strongest trait to just plop a random list into' it would be 1. BR 2. VH 3. Tie between OoML with Junith and AS, 4. OoML vanilla, 5. EC 6. Sacred Rose.

I think we agree with all of that.

I think we all agree for the most part, though I will mention when I was ranking the orders it was based on the overall package, not just the conviction.

One thing I didn't include was a "mixed Order", in which you give up the Convictions and just optimize the Stratagems. Though looking at it, it doesn't seem very possible as the Convictions are rather strong and the Stratagems aren't as powerful as they are in say Admech.

Mixed detchments have happened in the past EC WL with BR sisters, but I don't expect it to continue

Honestly, hardest part for me is choosing conviction. I figured mixed will be nerfed later so looking at trying to go mono. Have a good mix of units, 2x repentia, 2x seraphim, 2x rets, 2 immolators, 30 sisters, etc. I may go off the reservation and try SR but BR just looks a lot of fun.

Now that the Palatine is on the horizon (Q1 maybe?) and we know at least one (and probably her main) rule (re-roll 1s to wound within 6"), is anyone else playing musical chairs with HQs in their head? I've been running 2 Canonesses in a Battalion and it seems the choice is to swap one for a Palatine or add her and find the points somewhere else. I'm leaning toward adding her and running her in range of melta Celestians of the Bloody Rose and alongside the Beneficence blender Canoness. Anyone having similar thoughts, or different?