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To be fair, CSM are one of the very worst units in the game at this point, meme-worthy bad. They should be closer to 11 points, not 14 - and frankly would still be pretty bad even then - but for whatever reason GW just doesn't care. It's honestly pretty amazing how badly they've treated chaos in 9th edition aside from DG.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/06 06:01:06
Here's my initial build for sisters, I was debating between bloody rose and martyred lady, but I just dont like the melee aspect of sisters (delivery mechanism is too tricky, and models are base S3 and T3).
My plan is to hold backfield objectives with exorcist and go for flanking objectives with dominions in immolator. The rest of the army gathers in group for buffs and moves towards midfield. Morvenn gives full reroll to retributors, and dogmata prays for better inv save for them aswell. I'm thinking for secondaries; engage on all fronts, investigate sites and leap of faith.
Spreelock wrote: Here's my initial build for sisters, I was debating between bloody rose and martyred lady, but I just dont like the melee aspect of sisters (delivery mechanism is too tricky, and models are base S3 and T3).
My plan is to hold backfield objectives with exorcist and go for flanking objectives with dominions in immolator. The rest of the army gathers in group for buffs and moves towards midfield. Morvenn gives full reroll to retributors, and dogmata prays for better inv save for them aswell. I'm thinking for secondaries; engage on all fronts, investigate sites and leap of faith.
Source for points are from Auspex Tactics.
The exorcists are going to pop like balloons unless there's obscuring to hide behind and you don't have a whole lot of killing power here. You'd probably be better off as Valorous Heart just for the extra longevity.
(also exorcists are really, aggressively terrible and barely worth half their points but that's neither here nor there.)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/06 15:24:05
Spreelock wrote: Here's my initial build for sisters, I was debating between bloody rose and martyred lady, but I just dont like the melee aspect of sisters (delivery mechanism is too tricky, and models are base S3 and T3).
My plan is to hold backfield objectives with exorcist and go for flanking objectives with dominions in immolator. The rest of the army gathers in group for buffs and moves towards midfield. Morvenn gives full reroll to retributors, and dogmata prays for better inv save for them aswell. I'm thinking for secondaries; engage on all fronts, investigate sites and leap of faith.
Source for points are from Auspex Tactics.
I'd see what you can replace Celestine with. She doesn't buff much anymore, and you've already got a lot of points in HQ with Morvenn.
I'm very interested in trying a shooty army with Argent Shroud, myself. Love the idea of slapping heavy weapons throughout my army and sprinting everywhere.
I really want to try out a canoness with a blessed blade and rapturous blows in bloody rose. Stick full hit/wound rerolls on that either way you can, put a war hymn on as well.
6 attacks, s6, ap-4, Dd3+1. Sounds like fun.
Trigger the miraculous ability and fish for 6s in the hit as well for additional mortals.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/06 15:24:31
Spreelock wrote: Here's my initial build for sisters, I was debating between bloody rose and martyred lady, but I just dont like the melee aspect of sisters (delivery mechanism is too tricky, and models are base S3 and T3).
My plan is to hold backfield objectives with exorcist and go for flanking objectives with dominions in immolator. The rest of the army gathers in group for buffs and moves towards midfield. Morvenn gives full reroll to retributors, and dogmata prays for better inv save for them aswell. I'm thinking for secondaries; engage on all fronts, investigate sites and leap of faith.
Source for points are from Auspex Tactics.
I'd see what you can replace Celestine with. She doesn't buff much anymore, and you've already got a lot of points in HQ with Morvenn.
I'm very interested in trying a shooty army with Argent Shroud, myself. Love the idea of slapping heavy weapons throughout my army and sprinting everywhere.
You can get 20 MM in a 2000pt brigade by sticking one in troop squads.
St C is a melee beatstick. She has an important role in that list
I'm very interested in trying a shooty army with Argent Shroud, myself. Love the idea of slapping heavy weapons throughout my army and sprinting everywhere.
I'm right with you there. I think my first point of action will be depositing my multi-meltas amongst the BSS rather than focus them in the retributors.
Yeah, exorcist are not that great, but since the most of the GT missions have 1-2 objectives backfield, it's the only decent option for holding them. And it can fire indirect now. The celestine acts as a counter melee unit, and fills the slot required for battalion. The other options are cheaper, but the list does not need any overlapping auras, because morvenn already has them.
St C is a melee beatstick. She has an important role in that list
Am I reading it right that healing tears heals all of her own wounds and brings back a geminae!? There are going to be armies that simply cannot get rid of her Has to take 8+ wounds in a turn minimum to kill her, first time around it's 10. Auto-take IMO.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/06 15:47:39
Spreelock wrote: Yeah, exorcist are not that great, but since the most of the GT missions have 1-2 objectives backfield, it's the only decent option for holding them. And it can fire indirect now. The celestine acts as a counter melee unit, and fills the slot required for battalion. The other options are cheaper, but the list does not need any overlapping auras, because morvenn already has them.
You're honestly probably going to be better off dropping both exorcists for 2 units of 2 crusaders. They can hold objectives, they can do actions, they're about as survivable as the exorcist is (I wish I was joking), and it saves you over 300pts you could put into something that can kill stuff.
At the very least you're going to want to drop one exorcists because you can't give both ignores LoS.
St C is a melee beatstick. She has an important role in that list
Am I reading it right that healing tears heals all of her own wounds and brings back a geminae!? There are going to be armies that simply cannot get rid of her Has to take 8+ wounds in a turn minimum to kill her, first time around it's 10. Auto-take IMO.
11, unless the attacks are D1 then she's unhurt by them RAW. She has a -1 damage taken passive now (currently no minimum).
Oh damn, she has the broken writing on the reduce damage part too!
2x2 wounds at 2+/5++ (so overspill is possible)
6 wounds at 2+4++ (immune to d1, -1 damage on anything else).
Essentially it's a crazy bracket at 10, 8 and 6, and if you don't take her down a bracket she heals to the top of the previous one.
You know what, I'm using the 240pt/model paragons for now.
The one gap I guess is since you can't heal and move, minimising the damage until you're in charge range is key. Any time after that you're golden. Her and 9 repentia are 2cp for strategic reserves.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2021/06/06 16:19:59
You're honestly probably going to be better off dropping both exorcists for 2 units of 2 crusaders. They can hold objectives, they can do actions, they're about as survivable as the exorcist is (I wish I was joking), and it saves you over 300pts you could put into something that can kill stuff.
At the very least you're going to want to drop one exorcists because you can't give both ignores LoS.
So, what should I add to this list, to make it more offensive? I'll might consider more retributors (10-strong squads), so they'll benefit from martyred lady bonus.
Taikishi wrote: Geminae are 2+/4++. And she and the Geminae can benefit from Look Out Sir! from Celestians and Sacresants now as they're "Sanctified Characters".
Was squinting and the blur looked more like a 5 than a 4. Even better then.
You're honestly probably going to be better off dropping both exorcists for 2 units of 2 crusaders. They can hold objectives, they can do actions, they're about as survivable as the exorcist is (I wish I was joking), and it saves you over 300pts you could put into something that can kill stuff.
At the very least you're going to want to drop one exorcists because you can't give both ignores LoS.
So, what should I add to this list, to make it more offensive? I'll might consider more retributors (10-strong squads), so they'll benefit from martyred lady bonus.
Honestly, outflanking min squad Retributors are still a solid option. More dominions would work well too. Mortifier and Pengines both remain solid mixed melee/shooting threats.
I wouldn't get too bogged down with trying to get the OOML bonus.If you CAN get it then that's great but it's even better to murder your opponent's units before they get to kill any models.
I'm really liking the look of war-hymned buzz blade pen engines as well. Theres not many better targets for a first turn war hymn (transports/reserves etc)
+1 to move, built in advance and charge, 6 attacks at 8 -4 d2 each. They come with the up to 8 s6 flamers for that strat, i think theres a lot to like.
Actually, I wonder if there's play for using war hymn to replace the double weapon bonus. So 1 flail and one buzz-blade. Not going to be the hyper-efficient option but you're not going to be in a position where you have the wrong weapon.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/06 16:42:23
Siegfriedfr wrote: Morvenn vahl will be point nerfed to 320-350 by the end of the year.
They need to remove 30 points off all the tanks ( cept rhino).
The triumph should be 150 points.
They need to give repentia and seraphim something back to make them useful.
They need to revert characters points to what they were before hymns were added.
Morvenn will likely only see that nerf if it turns out sisters are still an A tier army, which tbh seems like a stretch. She might take a 10-15 point bump at some point but it's not like she's 8th ed guillamen.
Agreed. Possibly more for the exorcist.
Honestly they should take the whole unit back to the drawing board and rewrite it from scratch. It's an AoS model they tried to adapt for 40k and failed.
Seraphim yes, Repentia barely got touched. Between the buff to the repentia superior, the new BR stratagem actually being better for them than the old and imagifiers strength buff staying, they're not in a bad spot. Losing run and charge sucks but running up to auto-charge 12 was a bit silly.
I would also agree here. They're HEAVILY overvaluing Hymns. Being a command phase ability Hymn's suck except for a very few specific units.
Siegfriedfr wrote: Morvenn vahl will be point nerfed to 320-350 by the end of the year.
They need to remove 30 points off all the tanks ( cept rhino).
The triumph should be 150 points.
They need to give repentia and seraphim something back to make them useful.
They need to revert characters points to what they were before hymns were added.
I agree that Morvenn is going to catch a nerf. Hopefully not too far to where she's useless though. We can only hope they give the tanks a price cut; maybe if they see that their shiny new Castigator kit isn't selling well they'll fix it, at least. Repentia are okay as they are, just not as good as they used to be. At least they are cheaper now. Seraphim should never have lost the +6" range effect from Deadly Descent, as that killed the Inferno Pistol build. Again, we can only hope that they throw them some kind of a bone.
My armies (re-counted and updated on 11/7/24, including modeled wargear options):
Dark Angels: ~16000 Astra Militarum: ~1200 | Imperial Knights: ~2300 | Leagues of Votann: ~1300 | Tyranids: ~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: ~5000 | Kruleboyz: ~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: ~700
Check out my P&M Blogs: ZergSmasher's P&M Blog | Imperial Knights blog | Board Games blog | Total models painted in 2024: 40 | Total models painted in 2025: 24 | Current main painting project: Tomb Kings
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: You need your bumps felt. With a patented, Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000.
The Grotsnik Corp Bump Feelerer 9,000. It only looks like several bricks crudely gaffer taped to a cricket bat.
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It's pretty much impossible to get the points on all-rounders right; when they are cheap they are auto-includes, when they aren't cheap they are auto-un-includes because the nature of an all-rounder piece is that its value doesn't really depend on anything else. It is hard for me to see how taking Vahl is ever going to be a meaningful choice as long as her rules stay as blandly and generically powerful as they are. I mean I guess if you come up with some bizarre list with no core units worth buffing that could be a break point that makes her worth taking or not worth taking on some metric other than simply her points...but surely no list like that is ever going to be viable. So she'll stay either in every competitive list or no competitive list depending on her pointing.
I see a lot of people citing Repentia nerfs, but advance+charge isn't one of them, if you're the Argent Shroud. Per the new 40kFAQ if you count as not having moved, you can still shoot normally, charge normally, etc...
It is still a net nerf, but Argent Shroud at least broadly leaves Repentia and Retributors usable and fairly strong.
the more I look at the other orders im learning towards ebon chalice instead of the usual valorous/rose, either that or some weird minor order combination for fun like witch hunters + vengence
not sure what sacred rites I would use though, probably guidence and aegis or guidence and light of the emperor
"If you are forced to use your trump card, then the battle is already lost"
NewTruthNeomaxim wrote: I see a lot of people citing Repentia nerfs, but advance+charge isn't one of them, if you're the Argent Shroud. Per the new 40kFAQ if you count as not having moved, you can still shoot normally, charge normally, etc...
It is still a net nerf, but Argent Shroud at least broadly leaves Repentia and Retributors usable and fairly strong.
But then you lose 2AP and 1 attack per model compared to the old BR build. That's a pretty massive nerf too - actually two less attacks in most cases, since the priest's buff becomes a lot harder to get now that it has to go off in the command phase and therefore can't be triggered on a unit that starts the turn in a rhino. Argent shroud repentia coming out of a rhino do less than half the damage that BR repentia coming out of a rhino used to do, even before you factor in the loss of the +1 to wound strat too.
No matter how you cut it, Repentia took the nerf bat to the face pretty hard.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/06/06 20:33:27
What do you guys think of bloody rose builds?
It seems that the new sacresant units are very strong (might even replace the repentia), 2+/4++, buffs from hospitaller (6+++) and imagifier (+1S, reroll advance/charge). I'm thinking about list built around Vanguard detachment, because Elite slots are too crowded. Are the basic battle sisters necessary, or is it better to go fully melee?
Spreelock wrote: What do you guys think of bloody rose builds?
It seems that the new sacresant units are very strong (might even replace the repentia), 2+/4++, buffs from hospitaller (6+++) and imagifier (+1S, reroll advance/charge). I'm thinking about list built around Vanguard detachment, because Elite slots are too crowded. Are the basic battle sisters necessary, or is it better to go fully melee?
I have concerns about whether sacresants can really survive with the mortal wounds available right now.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2021/06/06 20:43:44
~16000 Astra Militarum: 
~1200 | Imperial Knights: 
~2300 | Leagues of Votann: 
~1300 | Tyranids: 
~3400 | Stormcast Eternals: 
~5000 | Kruleboyz: 
~3500 | Lumineth Realm-Lords: 
~700
11527pts Total (7400pts painted)
3730 Total (210pts painted)