Author |
Message |
|
|
|
Advert
|
Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
- No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
- Times and dates in your local timezone.
- Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
- Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
- Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now. |
|
|
2020/02/07 19:50:43
Subject: Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Omnipotent Necron Overlord
|
JNAProductions wrote: Xenomancers wrote: JNAProductions wrote: Daedalus81 wrote:
Winning 2.4 out of 5 games is...the same level of win rate as Necrons, Tyrnaids, CSM, and Sisters. That is what we consider "too good"?
*Shrug*
Honestly, all I've got with that is anecdotes. I can contend that, as Ultras are kinda the "suggested" subfaction of Marines, you could have a lot of people who are going to their first tournament or just kinda happened into Ultras without really picking, diluting the pool of good players more than other factions, but that's just conjecture.
Is there some kind of data that marines are a starter army of some kind? Because most new players I meet are looking at the models and just pick a first army they think is coolest. Sometimes that will be marines but a lot of times it is another army. I think the primary reason lots of players end up playing marines is over the years of multiple box deals you will inevitably end up with marines of some kind and end up building the army. I've also never seen anyone come in off the street and just fall in love with the Ultramarines. Likely someone will tell them not to play them and do something "cooler " like blood angels or space wolves. It is utterly nonsensical to apply these ideas over and over again as to why Ultras and really non IH/ RG/IF armies aren't doing really well with their "broken" rules. The answer is pretty simple if you ask me. You are used to rolling over space marine players for the entirety of your gaming experience that it just feels wrong to you that a marine player can now roll you. Hint...Every army should be able to roll you. Just not at iron-hands level.
My issues with Marines (of all stripes) is not that I cannot roll them. It's that I crush too easily with them-I've played Marines. And they're not fun-they're too powerful.
It is my understanding that you play Nurgle daemons...which primarily revolve around invune saves anyways? Doctrines have done literally nothing against that. The Ultras super doctrine is decent - IMO it should just be the armies chapter tactic - however is it the additional attacks in CC that are giving you trouble? Or is it Null zone?
One thing is for sure - daemons don't auto win vs GK anymore. Even with resurrecting a unit every turn. 4 damage smite automatic is GG. LOL.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/07 19:52:35
If we fail to anticipate the unforeseen or expect the unexpected in a universe of infinite possibilities, we may find ourselves at the mercy of anyone or anything that cannot be programmed, categorized or easily referenced.
- Fox Mulder |
|
|
|
2020/02/07 21:11:37
Subject: Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Regular Dakkanaut
|
Waking Dreamer wrote:^ I was thinking they were around Black Templar level...maybe a bit higher.
Maybe a pro GK player will work out a build or playstyle pushing them to around BA/ DA level in the future.
BT or DA seem to be around the same power level, especially considering they play well without a large contingent of Primaris.
|
|
|
|
2020/02/07 21:28:16
Subject: Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
|
Karol wrote:why would you run ultra succesors instead of RG or IH ones?
I understand why someone may want to play ultramarines, but playing their succesors sounds very strange to me.
maybe because you like the UM strats etc? maybe you long ago eistablished your custom chapter as a UM sucessor? all sorts of reasons
|
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
|
|
|
2020/02/07 23:50:38
Subject: Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Steadfast Ultramarine Sergeant
|
BrianDavion wrote:Karol wrote:why would you run ultra succesors instead of RG or IH ones?
I understand why someone may want to play ultramarines, but playing their succesors sounds very strange to me.
maybe because you like the UM strats etc? maybe you long ago eistablished your custom chapter as a UM sucessor? all sorts of reasons
Pretty much this here. I painted my dudes up as Ultramarines and I like the lore for Ultramarines. Marines aren't in such a bad spot anymore that every advantage I can get needs to be taken. Sure I could go with other chapters for better X but I just wanna play my dudes my way. At least that's my 2 cents
|
|
|
|
2020/02/08 06:10:08
Subject: Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Fixture of Dakka
|
BrianDavion wrote:Karol wrote:why would you run ultra succesors instead of RG or IH ones?
I understand why someone may want to play ultramarines, but playing their succesors sounds very strange to me.
maybe because you like the UM strats etc? maybe you long ago eistablished your custom chapter as a UM sucessor? all sorts of reasons
still it makes no sense to play ultramarines, only without the ultramarines special characters. As it is kind of the thing that makes ultramarines good. I don't really get how paint on the model is suppose to effect the rules though. They could be grey or unpainted, and if someone says they are ultramarines, they are ultramarines.
|
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. |
|
|
|
2020/02/09 00:29:24
Subject: Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
|
Karol wrote:BrianDavion wrote:Karol wrote:why would you run ultra succesors instead of RG or IH ones?
I understand why someone may want to play ultramarines, but playing their succesors sounds very strange to me.
maybe because you like the UM strats etc? maybe you long ago eistablished your custom chapter as a UM sucessor? all sorts of reasons
still it makes no sense to play ultramarines, only without the ultramarines special characters. As it is kind of the thing that makes ultramarines good. I don't really get how paint on the model is suppose to effect the rules though. They could be grey or unpainted, and if someone says they are ultramarines, they are ultramarines.
you realize Karol that an ultramarines sucessor can use custom chapter tactics right?
and thus it's entirely possiable with say... bolter fulisades, stealthy, and the ability to move while counting as stationary? just for example.
|
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
|
|
|
2020/02/09 04:02:58
Subject: Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Wish I could do that with Cadian successors but I'm not marines, sad face.
|
|
|
|
2020/02/09 10:14:56
Subject: Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
|
It's one of those cases where I can understand it being only a marines thing but I DO wish other factions had their own "running a pure army without subfaction mixing by detachment? have a bonus!" to keep things even.
|
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
|
|
|
2020/02/09 10:19:57
Subject: Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Longtime Dakkanaut
|
Explain please, how do you understand it only being a marine thing ? Just curious as I could see off shoot armies from cadia being used as successor groups, or catachans, etc, etc.
What puzzles me more is they didn't give that to Guard, when all people complain about is Guard soup and the release did nothing to stop that.
|
|
|
|
2020/02/09 10:43:45
Subject: Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Regular Dakkanaut
|
Yeah right. Nids are the living incarnation of evolutionary tactics through their splinter fleets, and they don't get it either.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/09 10:44:06
|
|
|
|
2020/02/09 12:28:43
Subject: Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Fixture of Dakka
|
BrianDavion wrote:Karol wrote:BrianDavion wrote:Karol wrote:why would you run ultra succesors instead of RG or IH ones?
I understand why someone may want to play ultramarines, but playing their succesors sounds very strange to me.
maybe because you like the UM strats etc? maybe you long ago eistablished your custom chapter as a UM sucessor? all sorts of reasons
still it makes no sense to play ultramarines, only without the ultramarines special characters. As it is kind of the thing that makes ultramarines good. I don't really get how paint on the model is suppose to effect the rules though. They could be grey or unpainted, and if someone says they are ultramarines, they are ultramarines.
you realize Karol that an ultramarines sucessor can use custom chapter tactics right?
and thus it's entirely possiable with say... bolter fulisades, stealthy, and the ability to move while counting as stationary? just for example.
I know, but my question still stands. why would you do it? when you can be RG or IH sucessor? same colour, same models, better rules.
|
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. |
|
|
|
2020/02/09 12:39:02
Subject: Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
|
AngryAngel80 wrote:Explain please, how do you understand it only being a marine thing ? Just curious as I could see off shoot armies from cadia being used as successor groups, or catachans, etc, etc.
What puzzles me more is they didn't give that to Guard, when all people complain about is Guard soup and the release did nothing to stop that.
Because being a sucessor to a first founding chapter is a big part of the fluff of an identity of a space Marine chapter. Every chapter can trace it's orgins to a 1st founding chapter and primarch (well except ones like the blood ravens, and their entire identity is wrapped up in the fact that they CAN'T)
no other faction has that as being a factor, not even chaos (a chaos warband can be a mish mash of marines from all over after all)
that said other armies need some sort of "mono chapter tactic" bonus, right now space Marines are the only army that's basucly got a bonus for not running "one detachment with X rules, one detachment with Y rules" and thats something I'd like to see more armies given.
Guard could instead have it be a "regimental type" such as "siege regiment" "light horse regiment" "Line regiment" etc
|
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
|
|
|
2020/02/09 12:58:48
Subject: Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Ultramarine Librarian with Freaky Familiar
|
Karol wrote:I know, but my question still stands. why would you do it? when you can be RG or IH sucessor? same colour, same models, better rules.
Because I care more about the background, aesthetic, and feel of my army than I do how well it plays?
My homebrew Chapter is a custom "Ultramarines"* successor, that's a big factor in how I've made them and I have no interest in slapping IH or RG rules on them when that's not what I've described them as being. I care less about the rules than I do the principle of "they're Ultramarine successors, so they'll use Ultramarine successor rules".
*technically, they're made up of a mixed geneseed Indomitus Crusade Greyshield force, but received a massive influx of Ultramarines geneseed and are commanded by an ex-Ultramarine, so nominally, they're Ultramarines.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BrianDavion wrote:Guard could instead have it be a "regimental type" such as "siege regiment" "light horse regiment" "Line regiment" etc
Regiment type would have been great.
You could have a system where you have a training doctrine (so, your current Cadian/Catachan/Tallarn etc rules), and then you can also pick from regiment doctrine as described above.
What I'd *really* like from the regiment doctrine is if it only applied per detachment, and could only be taken if the detachment did or didn't have certain models (ie, a light infantry regiment detachment cannot have any Leman Russes or artillery tanks) - if you wanted to take a mixed force, you take lots of detachments, or you take an explicitly "combined arms" regiment, which doesn't give out many bonuses.
Essentially, making it a little like the 30k Rites of War.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/09 13:04:46
They/them
|
|
|
|
2020/02/09 14:46:36
Subject: Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Shadowy Grot Kommittee Memba
|
BrianDavion wrote:
It's one of those cases where I can understand it being only a marines thing but I DO wish other factions had their own "running a pure army without subfaction mixing by detachment? have a bonus!" to keep things even.
Yeah it drfinitely would not make sense for tyranid splinter fleets literally related to the main hive fleets.
Or guard regiments modeled off of the main regiments.
|
"Got you, Yugi! Your Rubric Marines can't fall back because I have declared the tertiary kaptaris ka'tah stance two, after the secondary dacatarai ka'tah last turn!"
"So you think, Kaiba! I declared my Thousand Sons the cult of Duplicity, which means all my psykers have access to the Sorcerous Facade power! Furthermore I will spend 8 Cabal Points to invoke Cabbalistic Focus, causing the rubrics to appear behind your custodes! The Vengeance for the Wronged and Sorcerous Fullisade stratagems along with the Malefic Maelstrom infernal pact evoked earlier in the command phase allows me to double their firepower, letting me wound on 2s and 3s!"
"you think it is you who has gotten me, yugi, but it is I who have gotten you! I declare the ever-vigilant stratagem to attack your rubrics with my custodes' ranged weapons, which with the new codex are now DAMAGE 2!!"
"...which leads you straight into my trap, Kaiba, you see I now declare the stratagem Implacable Automata, reducing all damage from your attacks by 1 and triggering my All is Dust special rule!" |
|
|
|
2020/02/09 15:28:25
Subject: Re:Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Regular Dakkanaut
Cymru
|
To follow up on my previous comment, as expected played against a GK player in my local tournament. Paladin bomb, some strike squads and lots of characters including two GMNDK.
We were playing Lockdown and he got his deployment badly wrong by leaving too much in reserve. That meant my various troops and especially the Incursors managed to grab 4 objectives on the first 2 turns - a VP lead he could never overcome. However when his reserves did come in they were brutal - he ran an effectively indestructible wall of Paladins with his characters behind it buffing and smiting. If we had gone to turn 7 he probably would have tabled me (although I still would have been way ahead on VP because with the objectives going away each turn in that mission late scoring is harder than early game).
Very powerful army. If you don't have the tools to take out the characters or somehow just blow through the stacked defensive buffs on the Paladins they are a real handful.
Having learned his lesson he proceeded to table his two other opponents - which really helped me out as one of them was otherwise going to beat me to the top spot
|
|
|
|
2020/02/09 15:49:51
Subject: Re:Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Willing Inquisitorial Excruciator
|
Not sure if this has been posted already. It could certainly be usefull as a guide to make GK legit: https://www.goonhammer.com/start-competing-grey-knights-tactics/
|
His pattern of returning alive after being declared dead occurred often enough during Cain's career that the Munitorum made a special ruling that Ciaphas Cain is to never be considered dead, despite evidence to the contrary. |
|
|
|
2020/02/09 16:17:26
Subject: Re:Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Ladies Love the Vibro-Cannon Operator
|
A dual Paladin bomb is also suggested.
Seems a bit over the top as one can really only buff one squad.
|
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
Armies: Eldar, Necrons, Blood Angels, Grey Knights; World Eaters (30k); Bloodbound; Cryx, Circle, Cyriss |
|
|
|
2020/02/09 17:34:48
Subject: Re:Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Daedalus81 wrote: wuestenfux wrote:
GK are still at the very bottom.
Our Black Templars and Salamanders players here will certainly object.
Based on my games you guys are hilariously wrong, but I don't play IH, so... YMMV
I'll reiterate this point. GK just went 6-0 at Beachead Brawl.
BC
Lib
3x5 Strikes
Chap
Voldus
3x5 Strikes
Apoth
10 Paladins
5 Paladins
He beat 3 RKs and disco, Custom CW, Orks (similar to top 8 LVO list), Pure DE, RG Successors, Possessed bomb with PBCs
|
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/02/09 17:40:16
|
|
|
|
2020/02/09 17:58:12
Subject: Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
The dark hollows of Kentucky
|
BrianDavion wrote:AngryAngel80 wrote:Explain please, how do you understand it only being a marine thing ? Just curious as I could see off shoot armies from cadia being used as successor groups, or catachans, etc, etc.
What puzzles me more is they didn't give that to Guard, when all people complain about is Guard soup and the release did nothing to stop that.
Because being a sucessor to a first founding chapter is a big part of the fluff of an identity of a space Marine chapter. Every chapter can trace it's orgins to a 1st founding chapter and primarch (well except ones like the blood ravens, and their entire identity is wrapped up in the fact that they CAN'T)
no other faction has that as being a factor, not even chaos (a chaos warband can be a mish mash of marines from all over after all)
that said other armies need some sort of "mono chapter tactic" bonus, right now space Marines are the only army that's basucly got a bonus for not running "one detachment with X rules, one detachment with Y rules" and thats something I'd like to see more armies given.
Guard could instead have it be a "regimental type" such as "siege regiment" "light horse regiment" "Line regiment" etc
Yes every faction should have a bonus to running a pure army. If nothing else it would cut down on soup which is difficult to balance.
And although many warbands may be made up of a mix of legions, many aren't. Remember one of the reasons the legions don't often unite for shared goals is that they don't play well with others. That's why Black Crusades are special: they're a rare example of different legions working together.
|
|
|
|
2020/02/09 19:09:45
Subject: Re:Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Daedalus81 wrote: Daedalus81 wrote: wuestenfux wrote:
GK are still at the very bottom.
Our Black Templars and Salamanders players here will certainly object.
Based on my games you guys are hilariously wrong, but I don't play IH, so... YMMV
I'll reiterate this point. GK just went 6-0 at Beachead Brawl.
BC
Lib
3x5 Strikes
Chap
Voldus
3x5 Strikes
Apoth
10 Paladins
5 Paladins
He beat 3 RKs and disco, Custom CW, Orks (similar to top 8 LVO list), Pure DE, RG Successors, Possessed bomb with PBCs
I'm really not shocked he killed the Chaos lists and Orks ( LOL Storm Bolter on everyone), but I'm curious how the Dark Eldar and Raven Guard games went. Flayed Skull wouldn't care about the Cover Tide after all.
|
CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
|
|
|
2020/02/09 19:40:39
Subject: Re:Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Stalwart Strike Squad Grey Knight
|
Daedalus81 wrote: Daedalus81 wrote: wuestenfux wrote:
GK are still at the very bottom.
Our Black Templars and Salamanders players here will certainly object.
Based on my games you guys are hilariously wrong, but I don't play IH, so... YMMV
I'll reiterate this point. GK just went 6-0 at Beachead Brawl.
BC
Lib
3x5 Strikes
Chap
Voldus
3x5 Strikes
Apoth
10 Paladins
5 Paladins
He beat 3 RKs and disco, Custom CW, Orks (similar to top 8 LVO list), Pure DE, RG Successors, Possessed bomb with PBCs
Tabletop Tactics' Lawrence Baker seems to have proven himself to be the Supreme Grand Master for all fellow GK players out there!
|
|
|
|
|
2020/02/09 19:44:51
Subject: Re:Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm really not shocked he killed the Chaos lists and Orks ( LOL Storm Bolter on everyone), but I'm curious how the Dark Eldar and Raven Guard games went. Flayed Skull wouldn't care about the Cover Tide after all.
Beat RG by 2 points - 18 cents, 3 TFCs, 2 WW
DE was BH, Drazhar, 3 Ravs, 2 RWs, and 3 Venoms/Kabs plus 15 Wyches, Haemon, and 3 Talos
|
|
|
|
2020/02/09 20:16:21
Subject: Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Fixture of Dakka
|
Very nice, and shows that the buff helps, even a lot when your a good player. Cool list too almost like the stuff I have with few differences. And good to know that GK suddenly became a hard counter to an annoying build like possessed bomb.
|
If you have to kill, then kill in the best manner. If you slaughter, then slaughter in the best manner. Let one of you sharpen his knife so his animal feels no pain. |
|
|
|
2020/02/09 20:17:51
Subject: Re:Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Daedalus81 wrote:Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm really not shocked he killed the Chaos lists and Orks ( LOL Storm Bolter on everyone), but I'm curious how the Dark Eldar and Raven Guard games went. Flayed Skull wouldn't care about the Cover Tide after all.
Beat RG by 2 points - 18 cents, 3 TFCs, 2 WW
DE was BH, Drazhar, 3 Ravs, 2 RWs, and 3 Venoms/Kabs plus 15 Wyches, Haemon, and 3 Talos
Was it a Successor?
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/09 20:18:06
CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
|
|
|
2020/02/09 21:24:13
Subject: Re:Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Yea - LRM and MA
|
|
|
|
2020/02/09 21:55:31
Subject: Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
LOL no wonder. Models like Centurions get NOTHING from Master Artisans. If you're gonna make a list, choose the good stuff: Stealthy and Long Range Marksmen
|
CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
|
|
|
2020/02/09 23:47:28
Subject: Re:Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade
|
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Daedalus81 wrote: Daedalus81 wrote: wuestenfux wrote:
GK are still at the very bottom.
Our Black Templars and Salamanders players here will certainly object.
Based on my games you guys are hilariously wrong, but I don't play IH, so... YMMV
I'll reiterate this point. GK just went 6-0 at Beachead Brawl.
BC
Lib
3x5 Strikes
Chap
Voldus
3x5 Strikes
Apoth
10 Paladins
5 Paladins
He beat 3 RKs and disco, Custom CW, Orks (similar to top 8 LVO list), Pure DE, RG Successors, Possessed bomb with PBCs
I'm really not shocked he killed the Chaos lists and Orks ( LOL Storm Bolter on everyone), but I'm curious how the Dark Eldar and Raven Guard games went. Flayed Skull wouldn't care about the Cover Tide after all.
Don't underestimate the MW tide (can't remember the name) - mass D2 smites adds up quickly (gods help you against daemons when D4 smites quickly delete entire units) and that's before the shooting phase.
GK are in a much better place overall
|
"Courage and Honour. I hear you murmur these words in the mist, in their wake I hear your hearts beat harder with false conviction seeking to convince yourselves that a brave death has meaning.
There is no courage to be found here my nephews, no honour to be had. Your souls will join the trillion others in the mist shrieking uselessly to eternity, weeping for the empire you could not save.
To the unfaithful, I bring holy plagues ripe with enlightenment. To the devout, I bring the blessing of immortality through the kiss of sacred rot.
And to you, new-born sons of Gulliman, to you flesh crafted puppets of a failing Imperium I bring the holiest gift of all.... Silence."
- Mortarion, The Death Lord, The Reaper of Men, Daemon Primarch of Nurgle
5300 | 2800 | 3600 | 1600 | |
|
|
|
2020/02/10 00:06:51
Subject: Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:LOL no wonder. Models like Centurions get NOTHING from Master Artisans. If you're gonna make a list, choose the good stuff: Stealthy and Long Range Marksmen
It does when they punch. It's not like cover was saving them from MW.
|
|
|
|
2020/02/10 00:46:41
Subject: Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Commander of the Mysterious 2nd Legion
|
Daedalus81 wrote:Slayer-Fan123 wrote:LOL no wonder. Models like Centurions get NOTHING from Master Artisans. If you're gonna make a list, choose the good stuff: Stealthy and Long Range Marksmen
It does when they punch. It's not like cover was saving them from MW.
keep in mind slayer-fan assumes everyone runs 100% optimized net lists with their armies custom crafted to abuse the rules the most.
he must be a "joy" to play against
|
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two |
|
|
|
2020/02/10 03:45:48
Subject: Where Do Grey Knights Stand?
|
|
Decrepit Dakkanaut
|
Daedalus81 wrote:Slayer-Fan123 wrote:LOL no wonder. Models like Centurions get NOTHING from Master Artisans. If you're gonna make a list, choose the good stuff: Stealthy and Long Range Marksmen
It does when they punch. It's not like cover was saving them from MW.
It's still gonna take 2 Strike Squads at minimum to kill one with mortal wounds. Also with punching, they have too many attacks to really benefit that much. Sounds silly I know, but the more you're packing in terms of attacks/shots and dudes, the less effective the Trait is. Automatically Appended Next Post: BrianDavion wrote: Daedalus81 wrote:Slayer-Fan123 wrote:LOL no wonder. Models like Centurions get NOTHING from Master Artisans. If you're gonna make a list, choose the good stuff: Stealthy and Long Range Marksmen
It does when they punch. It's not like cover was saving them from MW.
keep in mind slayer-fan assumes everyone runs 100% optimized net lists with their armies custom crafted to abuse the rules the most.
he must be a "joy" to play against
It was at a fething tournament...
I've also been saying Master Artisans was a bad choice for a long time. Surprise surprise as people slowly don't build for it and start losing.
|
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/10 03:47:01
CaptainStabby wrote:If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote:BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote:Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote:ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever. |
|
|
|
|