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 Elbows wrote:

 RuneGrey wrote:
To be fair, GW has always balanced out the fact that they don't pay well with... well, enthusiasm. A lot of people are willing to take working for their favorite hobby company in lieu of a superior wage, and the discount can help a lot if GW models make up the majority of your leisure time.

But on the same note, they really just... don't pay that well. Some of their postings for their corporate office have had hilariously lowball salaries listed, and while its livable... its entirely possible to leverage your talents for a better wage to live on elsewhere. I'm pretty sure Duncan probably received a superior offer elsewhere, and his on camera presence and ability to present excellent tutorials certainly had a lot to do with it.

Pretty much this. I'm not sure why people are responding with "no one pays as well as GW". GW is borderline notorious for being slim on the paychecks - the employees often considering discounts, free product, and being in the "hobby" as part of their salary (and thus willing to accept lesser pay).

Something tells me Duncan could seriously go Patreon and make double his current salary if he had his own content. GW makes tons of money, but they don't pay tons of money -not sure where people are getting that info.

I don't think anyone is saying GW pays well, just that outside of GW there's not a lot of market with other GAMING companies for his unique skill set. This doesn't mean he's not going elsewhere but that he's more likely if anything going independant then say.... doing painting videos for Reaper.

That certainly is a shame. I've never watched many of the tutorials, but his chemistry with Peachy was great, and some of Warhammer TV's best content features them unleashed with the likes of Nick and Louise. Without the passion, experience and a bit of madness displayed by these people, GW is just a cold corporate entity.

Well, that's a bummer.

While I wish him the best, I believe the tutorials will be OK. Peachy I enjoy (mostly due to his banter on the Duncan and Peachy hangout) and Nick I don't mind either.

Interesting times ahead!

BrianDavion wrote:
I don't think anyone is saying GW pays well, just that outside of GW there's not a lot of market with other GAMING companies for his unique skill set. This doesn't mean he's not going elsewhere but that he's more likely if anything going independant then say.... doing painting videos for Reaper.

They're going to need to realize that if they want a face that people give a squat about they're going to need to pay better or just be a continuous jumping board for people's careers once they've been out there a bit. If a presenter builds up a following they can turn it into a lively hood relatively easily, or simply leverage their popularity to get a better offer somewhere else that probably involves far less work.

The gaming aspect is far less important than actually managing to be likable on camera. That's a wildly marketable skill at the moment.

Good luck to him whatever he's going to be doing

he was by far the best they had in front of the camera

 Snrub wrote:
Bit of a bummer, as his videos were always good value. Always enjoyed him better then Peachy or Emma when in front of the camera. Emma never really seemed comfortable and Peachy just doesn't have the same on screen "zazz" that Duncan has.
If only they could get Darren Latham to do their tutorials.


Still, all the best to him, and hopefully he doesn't stray far from the hobby.

Nick Bayton’s really good, so that softens the blow. Still really sad to see him go.

Price keep rising, profit keep skyrocketing but they just can't afford to pay Duncan(or really a lot of them) decently smh.

N3p3nth3 wrote:
Nick Bayton’s really good, so that softens the blow. Still really sad to see him go.

Has Nick done any painting vids before?

His vids pretty much helped me out a lot, especially using the layer paints and painting flesh.

I'd say best of luck, but he probably lives in Nottingham. With the handful of gaming companies there, I'm sure this won't be the last we see iof him

I'm sad to hear he's going. I especially loved him on the streams. Hopefully he'll start doing videos or streams on his own channel (I've enjoyed some of Ceri's since she left). Regardless of what he does, I hope he has success.

 Snrub wrote:

N3p3nth3 wrote:
Nick Bayton’s really good, so that softens the blow. Still really sad to see him go.

Has Nick done any painting vids before?

He has, some of the most recent ones since they started churning them out in earnest.

I'm sure he's probably going to do his own channel, or work commissions - or something. I don't imagine he'll be gone forever.

He's probably going somewhere that will pay him enough not to need 3 roommates.

*pours out an egg nog for Duncan*

I hardly got to know you, sir. May your future be bright, and warm enough to only require two thin coats.

I guess this explains the sort of "let's forget any promotional stuff and just have a fun, nostalgic chat about the hobby together" feel of the last Stormcast.

That’s a bummer, I always loved his tutorials and he has a natural charisma that made him much easier to watch than many other painters who post tutorials. This could be a good opportunity for him however. If he starts an independent painting channel and goes the patreon route GMG does he could do pretty well for himself, and he would certainly have more freedom to paint what he wants and how he wants. I would interested to follow something along those lines.

 Sabotage! wrote:
he would certainly have more freedom to paint what he wants and how he wants.

Knights, Knights, Knights and a Warlord or three!

 lord_blackfang wrote:
He's probably going somewhere that will pay him enough not to need 3 roommates.

And the storage for all those minis.

Seriously, any GW staffer must accumulate stupid amounts of minis, especially when you get to mix work with hobby like the Community team does.

Probably the only advantage of working at GW is the ability to salvage left over bits and early access /preview to all of the newer stuff.

Thank you Duncan for being an amazing chap and wish you the very best for the future.

Cheers!

Chopstick wrote:
Probably the only advantage of working at GW is the ability to salvage left over bits and early access /preview to all of the newer stuff.

I think the Warhammer TV crew don't even get the early glimpses and previews, other then by maybe a few weeks to prep their promotional stuff.

I imagine for most of them the main perks are about the 50% employee discount, being around a whole ton of very passionate and talented hobbyists, and getting to work on something you love.

...which is part of why it baffles me when people complaining about things like 40k imply that GW's ground level employees are lazy, don't care about the quality of their releases, and/or are just trying to squeeze money out of the fans any way they can. The CEO and executive management are obviously prioritizing profits and keeping the shareholders happy, as is true of any company, and do stuff like impose a pretty ruthless release schedule, but the actual background writers, game designers / rule writers, sculptors, illustrators, product developers, and graphic designers? Aside from old timers like Jervis Johnson, Jes Goodwin, Aly Morrison and John Blanche, they're like 90% people who grew up playing Games Workshop games and are totally passionate about it, and try to make the best products they can. It's just that it's a hard job, done by fallible humans, with lots of priorities to juggle, and the aforementioned brutal release schedule, so they make mistakes and can't be all things to all people.

I mean, just look at Duncan. You can tell that guy 100% cares about the community and wants everyone to enjoy the hobby as much as possible, and get as much out of it as possible. I think he's the norm, not the exception.

...

Though none of this is to say they shouldn't be paid better. Getting to do what you love is used far far far too often as an excuse to treat employees like crap in creative industries… videogame development, comics, animation… there's countless horror stories about bosses getting away with murder because the employees are passionate about the project and want to keep working on it. I'm sure big tabletop game companies have similar stories.

I heard a rumour that he wanted to increase his quality of life by having a job that paid enough to buy food and put a roof over his head.

There is definitely a point (at least for middle class people) where making less money to work at a job you enjoy more is extremely worth it. The issue is that if you aren’t making enough to live a somewhat comfortable existence and not struggle, liking what you do at work is pretty irrelevant.

It's amusing that to myself at least, this is a bigger announcement than anything GW have mentioned themselves (in any marketing or promotion kinda way) for the past twelve months.

I wonder where Duncan will end up? I wouldn't be surprised if it was outside of the miniatures/tabletop industry to be honest, he's got the presentation skills, charisma and talent for it. (Community manager at a videogame studio like Creative Assembly would be an easy transition for him, for example)

Either way, good luck!

I remember on some interview Tuomas Pirinen saying that GW (and the wargaming industry in general) didn't pay that well, and he left when the bills (kids, mortgage,...) were ramping up (so ended up in videogames, which payed better).

No clue on the situation of Duncan, but I'm sure he can make it well either individually (patreon, videos, merch...) or aiming a little higher in some corporate entertainment PR position (he's got the skills).

Good luck to him!

I often find myself thinking Duncan and Wade Pryce both have the talent and charm to be, like, professional television presenters. Like even for BBC or something.

(And I don't mean that as a knock against Peachy or Nick. They're great, they just have a camera presence and attitude that feels more specialized for this kind of community)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Sabotage! wrote:
There is definitely a point (at least for middle class people) where making less money to work at a job you enjoy more is extremely worth it. The issue is that if you aren’t making enough to live a somewhat comfortable existence and not struggle, liking what you do at work is pretty irrelevant.

And the worst tragedy is that, if you aren't making a fair wage, you can even end up resenting that thing you originally loved. :(

We'll just have to wait and see what he's going to do next, he has promised to keep us in the loop with regards to that. Who knows, we may see an official announcement from GW sooner or later. I know they've not done this in the past with previous staffers who were visible a lot, but they may do it for Duncan.

YeOldSaltPotato wrote:They're going to need to realize that if they want a face that people give a squat about they're going to need to pay better or just be a continuous jumping board for people's careers once they've been out there a bit.

nataliereed1984 wrote:...which is part of why it baffles me when people complaining about things like 40k imply that GW's ground level employees are lazy, don't care about the quality of their releases, and/or are just trying to squeeze money out of the fans any way they can. The CEO and executive management are obviously prioritizing profits and keeping the shareholders happy, as is true of any company, and do stuff like impose a pretty ruthless release schedule, but the actual background writers, game designers / rule writers, sculptors, illustrators, product developers, and graphic designers? Aside from old timers like Jervis Johnson, Jes Goodwin, Aly Morrison and John Blanche, they're like 90% people who grew up playing Games Workshop games and are totally passionate about it, and try to make the best products they can. It's just that it's a hard job, done by fallible humans, with lots of priorities to juggle, and the aforementioned brutal release schedule, so they make mistakes and can't be all things to all people.

'Lazy devs' is one of those soundbites that bothers the hell out of me. I've seen no indication that GW's staffers are anything but enthusiastic and invested in their work.

That said, if it really is the case (this is the first I'm hearing of it) that GW essentially hires fans who are willing to tolerate low pay for the opportunity to work at GW, then no wonder their products have the problems they do. That's just not how you attract the best talent, in any industry.

Taking videogames as an example, I find gamers are often surprised to learn that the developers who work on franchises really tend not to be anywhere near as invested in the IP as the fans are- they're hired for pay, working conditions, and opportunity for advancement first and foremost, and it's pretty common to work on games that they would never want to play in their spare time. Conversely, I've seen a lot of development projects led by fans crash and burn, because they had enthusiasm but not the requisite skills, nor the capital to bring in industry veterans to address that deficiency. Having an appreciation for the IP is a nice-to-have for project leads, but when it comes to raw skill you have to compensate well to get (and more importantly retain) good people.

So I guess Duncan leaving isn't all that surprising. A shame to see him go, but I'll be following to see what he does next.

"We hire for attitude, not for skills" is one of the famous Kirbyisms from his era.

Even if that attitude was nuked from orbit by Rountree the day he took over, there's going to still be a lot of staff members lingering that were recruited under it.

Well, sometimes being a miniature painter for a wargames company isn't the ultimate goal in your life, even if you like it.

 Dryaktylus wrote:
Well, sometimes being a miniature painter for a wargames company isn't the ultimate goal in your life, even if you like it.

its more than money, and by extension bills and essential items, become more important than the dream job, so you jump ship to something offering better compensation to save your livelihood.

YeOldSaltPotato wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I don't think anyone is saying GW pays well, just that outside of GW there's not a lot of market with other GAMING companies for his unique skill set. This doesn't mean he's not going elsewhere but that he's more likely if anything going independant then say.... doing painting videos for Reaper.

They're going to need to realize that if they want a face that people give a squat about they're going to need to pay better or just be a continuous jumping board for people's careers once they've been out there a bit. If a presenter builds up a following they can turn it into a lively hood relatively easily, or simply leverage their popularity to get a better offer somewhere else that probably involves far less work.

The gaming aspect is far less important than actually managing to be likable on camera. That's a wildly marketable skill at the moment.

IMHO GW might be better off not having a singular in house painter and instead simply sponsering existing painters. take people who have a popular following and do GW stuff mostly anyway and provide them free access to GW paints and products so long as they agree to only use their stuff.