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Overread wrote: Honestly I can't see a painting channel actually competing with GW. GW doesn't really profit directly off painting videos at all. It's all secondary. If anything Duncan doing painting videos advertises GW's products whenever Duncan uses GW paint and/or models or any other supplies. Even something as casual as a painting handle will be GW advertising for FREE for GW.
Granted not being part of GW he can use whatever he wants now, however you can bet he'll follow much of his core and use a lot of GW stuff, esp early on. Likely dipping into other brands for exotic things (eg colourshift paints and such).
I do fear he's made a blunder here. WHC throws so many views to media. He has to build this ground up without benefits or guaranteed income.
RiTides wrote: That would seem like a really unfair business practice, if so, given the narrowness of the field. Him painting other miniatures shouldn't hurt them at all, and seemingly he's free to given what he's teasing.
Non-competition clauses in contracts may be seen as being unfair, but they're not against UK law. Though in the vast majority of cases they are restricted to six months or less.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/21 09:32:54
RiTides wrote: That would seem like a really unfair business practice, if so, given the narrowness of the field. Him painting other miniatures shouldn't hurt them at all, and seemingly he's free to given what he's teasing.
Non-competition clauses in contracts may be seen as being unfair, but they're not against UK law. Though in the vast majority of cases they are restricted to six months or less.
keep in mind a Non-Compeition clause in this case wouldn't be specific to duncan, it'd be something done across GW and mostly intended to prevent a situation of GW paying good money to train someone to say... sculpt models, only to have them at the end of their training jump ship to the compeition
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Overread wrote: Honestly I can't see a painting channel actually competing with GW. GW doesn't really profit directly off painting videos at all. It's all secondary. If anything Duncan doing painting videos advertises GW's products whenever Duncan uses GW paint and/or models or any other supplies. Even something as casual as a painting handle will be GW advertising for FREE for GW.
Granted not being part of GW he can use whatever he wants now, however you can bet he'll follow much of his core and use a lot of GW stuff, esp early on. Likely dipping into other brands for exotic things (eg colourshift paints and such).
I do fear he's made a blunder here. WHC throws so many views to media. He has to build this ground up without benefits or guaranteed income.
I hope he succeeds though.
I think he's off to a good start - how many ex-gw employees generate 1 post let alone 7 pages worth of chat alone? He's pretty much become one of THE faces of modern GW. If anything GW letting him go is the worse for it at present. GW has a few other staff who do well in front of the camera, but Duncan is the one most people "know". Plus he never gave that whole "I'm being paid for this" atmosphere - he was (once he got into it) a very natural presenter to the camera.
RiTides wrote: That would seem like a really unfair business practice, if so, given the narrowness of the field. Him painting other miniatures shouldn't hurt them at all, and seemingly he's free to given what he's teasing.
Non-competition clauses in contracts may be seen as being unfair, but they're not against UK law. Though in the vast majority of cases they are restricted to six months or less.
They're far more common than they're enforced though. I was under one and went to a direct competitor, a move I only undertook because my predecessor had done a similar thing and my employer did try to pursue them for it and failed.
Basically they're only valid in a contract if it can be demonstrated that the specific individual could materially, demonstrably negatively impact the company's bottom line by moving to a competitor.
It would be very hard to argue that what Duncan does would do that, and in fact if he continues to use Citadel products in any capacity his contribution to GW's sales will remain largely the same.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
To be fair that was basically what GW wanted from him and the whole GW painting system - basic info that was repeated to reinforce the teaching point.
I think that now he's on his own we might see different methods. He might well be pushing toward more advanced painting techniques and building on what he did before. Now that's he's not going to be exclusively bound to teaching beginners for marketing material.
RiTides wrote: That would seem like a really unfair business practice, if so, given the narrowness of the field. Him painting other miniatures shouldn't hurt them at all, and seemingly he's free to given what he's teasing.
Non-competition clauses in contracts may be seen as being unfair, but they're not against UK law. Though in the vast majority of cases they are restricted to six months or less.
keep in mind a Non-Compeition clause in this case wouldn't be specific to duncan, it'd be something done across GW and mostly intended to prevent a situation of GW paying good money to train someone to say... sculpt models, only to have them at the end of their training jump ship to the compeition
GW seems a lot more mindful of how litigation affects their image, and regardless of where a person lives, a non-compete is only as good as it's enforcement, which means litigation.
By all accounts this is an amicable departure, which means Duncan has likely reached an agreement on what he'll do, and for how long, with the powers that be.
While possible, I don't think a non-compete clause would be an issue.
Darren Latham has a fairly successful YouTube painting channel on the side while (still) being a GW miniatures designer in his day job.
If anything, I'd wonder why Duncan didn't build his own channel for a year or two while being employed, before going full-time (though Darren Latham simply might have better connections in the company?)
On the other hand, the quality of people like Latham is something Duncan will have to compete with to make a mark.
You will also note that all of Darren's videos are of Citadel miniatures and he uses strictly Citadel supplies. That is most likely a restriction from Games Workshop for employees who wish to do YouTube tutorials like he is doing.
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Ghaz wrote: You will also note that all of Darren's videos are of Citadel miniatures and he uses strictly Citadel supplies. That is most likely a restriction from Games Workshop for employees who wish to do YouTube tutorials like he is doing.
that or he's just enjoying his 50% off employees discount. toss that level of discount in and suddenly the citidel supplies are the cheaper alternative
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
Ghaz wrote: You will also note that all of Darren's videos are of Citadel miniatures and he uses strictly Citadel supplies. That is most likely a restriction from Games Workshop for employees who wish to do YouTube tutorials like he is doing.
Given he freely recommends using Windsor and Newton Series 7 Size 1 brushes whenever he’s asked what he paints with, he isn’t using 100% GW.
Stormonu wrote: For me, the joy is in putting some good-looking models on the board and playing out a fantasy battle - not arguing over the poorly-made rules of some 3rd party who neither has any power over my play nor will be visiting me (and my opponent) to ensure we are "playing by the rules"
Sunny Side Up wrote: While possible, I don't think a non-compete clause would be an issue.
Darren Latham has a fairly successful YouTube painting channel on the side while (still) being a GW miniatures designer in his day job.
If anything, I'd wonder why Duncan didn't build his own channel for a year or two while being employed, before going full-time (though Darren Latham simply might have better connections in the company?)
On the other hand, the quality of people like Latham is something Duncan will have to compete with to make a mark.
Yeah the biggest thing about Duncan and the way he was shown to paint in the videos was very basic. and from what i can see froom alot of people appreciate that because its a simple and effective way too paint.
However, if GW still produces those, and on a regular basis, way more regular than a Youtuber can do, what is the point f watching duncan do it?
Honestly, Duncan mighr be a great painter, but it wasnt his painting that got him popular, it was himself.
Overread wrote: Honestly I can't see a painting channel actually competing with GW. GW doesn't really profit directly off painting videos at all. It's all secondary. If anything Duncan doing painting videos advertises GW's products whenever Duncan uses GW paint and/or models or any other supplies. Even something as casual as a painting handle will be GW advertising for FREE for GW.
Granted not being part of GW he can use whatever he wants now, however you can bet he'll follow much of his core and use a lot of GW stuff, esp early on. Likely dipping into other brands for exotic things (eg colourshift paints and such).
I do fear he's made a blunder here. WHC throws so many views to media. He has to build this ground up without benefits or guaranteed income.
I hope he succeeds though.
That depends on how much they paid him. I have a sneaking suspicion it wasn't all that much.
You're not suggesting GW lean rather hard on their creative employees' enthusiasm to cheap out on pay and benefits are you?
My pearls are clutched.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Ghaz wrote:A non-compete clause could be a standard part of all contracts for GWHQ employees keeping them from working in the miniature gaming industry for a set amount of time after they leave GW, not something specific for painting videos but which may still be covered by a general non-compete clause (if it exists).
How would that work without interfering with the four freedoms (the UK is still part of the EU… for now)? Simply put: If they want a non-compete clause to be effective for a certain duration then they's need to pay him for that time (like a pseudo-employee). They can't restrict him like that once he's not a GW employee anymore. Because if they are not paying him then they have zero power to restrict his future employment situation in any way. If they want his time then they'd need to pay for it.
Besides: Haven't some game designers recently (± since AOS was released or so?) moved to and from GW without long pauses between the companies implying that a non-compete cause is not standard?
Only real non-competing clause that comes to mind is the one Rick Priestley had when he left GW years ago, forbidding him from creating a new sci-fi game for a couple of years. The moment it was over he did Gates of Antares.
Precisely, because, as I said, that is a circumstance where a specific individual would be in a position to materially negatively impact the earnings of their previous employer.
It would be relatively simple to argue that the author of one of your key products making another similar product independently or for a competitor would impact your own sales.
It is much less easy to argue that someone making painting videos but not responsible for making your paint or selling their own would have anything like the same impact.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
BrookM wrote: Only real non-competing clause that comes to mind is the one Rick Priestley had when he left GW years ago, forbidding him from creating a new sci-fi game for a couple of years. The moment it was over he did Gates of Antares.
Which oddly is just a bolt action reskin anyway, but I digress.
Non-competes and NDAs are abused as hell over here, but really, if they're important, they'll be very specific, and usually only apply to people that have very key inside information.
Azreal13 wrote: You're not suggesting GW lean rather hard on their creative employees' enthusiasm to cheap out on pay and benefits are you?
My pearls are clutched.
Glass Door reviews comment a lot about pay and benefits being good, but the upper management being capricious and upward mobility is poor. They're almost all retail employees though and mostly not in the UK. Reviews post Kirby seem more positive than those before.
And here's a great comment from a Nottigham employee highlighting why the books may be the way they are:
Pros
Oh, Games Workshop.
Staff are often quite quirky and friendly. There is a real sense of family at GW, with many staff staying for years.
The company is generous in terms of benefits and the canteen is superb, having just undergone a refurbishment.
Cons
Management often have no experience or knowledge of their profession, being hired for fit over skill. Sometimes this leads to a gross misunderstanding of what can be achieved. Siloed structure. Even within departments, job roles can be quite misunderstood by colleagues so available tools and resource can be underutilised by different teams. This is mostly offset by the fact you can't really stay annoyed at people because they're generally lovely if a bit daft.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/21 23:36:22
Azreal13 wrote: You're not suggesting GW lean rather hard on their creative employees' enthusiasm to cheap out on pay and benefits are you?
My pearls are clutched.
Glass Door reviews comment a lot about pay and benefits being good, but the upper management being capricious and upward mobility is poor. They're almost all retail employees though and mostly not in the UK. Reviews post Kirby seem more positive than those before.
And here's a great comment from a Nottigham employee highlighting why the books may be the way they are:
If you look at the hiring process it says a lot. They don't prioritise expertise or qualifications (can't speak for technical jobs as I've never looked at them)
BrookM wrote: Only real non-competing clause that comes to mind is the one Rick Priestley had when he left GW years ago, forbidding him from creating a new sci-fi game for a couple of years. The moment it was over he did Gates of Antares.
Which oddly is just a bolt action reskin anyway, but I digress.
Non-competes and NDAs are abused as hell over here, but really, if they're important, they'll be very specific, and usually only apply to people that have very key inside information.
Well, it ended up being a bolt action re-skin because the entire Kickstarter and a global web-based interactive campaign-thingy, etc.. all failed.
Bolting all the art-work they had already done and/or commissioned to the bolt action rules and releasing it anyhow was just the damage control.
Well, Darren Latham is just uploading his final video before his channel stops producing content. I don't think Duncan is a proper replacement tbh but I'll check out his channel nonetheless.
5000pts 
6000pts 
3000pts
The 1st Legion
Interrogator-Chaplain Beremiah's Strike Force
The Tearers of Flesh 
