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I admit to being in a weird situation where I've been playing 40k since the dying days of RT, but I don't know the current version very well. We had a few games at my place the other week - for some of us the first of 8th we'd ever played - and we made a lot of mistakes. One mistake I made was with my infantry, and counting as holding an objective despite how many I had thanks to the 'Extensions of the Hive Mind' rule my 'Nids have.

It was only after the game that I found out that everyone has a variation of this rule (Despoilers of the Galaxy, Strength of Faith, Dis is Ours! Zog Off!, and so on). It made me wonder what the actual point of this rule was, given that everyone has it, but then it made me ask: When is an army not Battle Forged?

So I have some newbie questions that I'm sure some of you will roll your eyes at, but as I'm planning another couple of games this weekend with someone who has even less experience than me, I thought it best to clear some things up:

1. When is an army not Battle Forged?
Is it if I take a detachment of a different army (eg. a Red Corsair Battalion with an allied Thousand Sons Spearhead Detachment)?
1a. Why does the "All your Troops score objectives regardless of numbers" rule exist if everyone has it?

2. What do Heroic Interventions actually do? I don't understand the purpose.

3. Infantry can move through solid walls for the purposes of movement. Does that mean they can shoot out of ruins regardless of whether there are windows/doors/flat walls/etc. in the way as well?

4. I'm not allowed within 1" of an enemy model. Is that I cannot end up within 1", or cannot come within 1" during any part of my movement?

5. I can only use one command point (or points, if the stratagem has a higher cost) per phase (so one during movement, one during psychic, etc.), and I cannot use the same stratagem twice in a turn?

6. Units coming in from reserve (Genestealers hiding in burrows, Flyrants, Termies, etc.) cannot do so during the first turn, but must arrive by the third turn, meaning reserves can really only come on during turns 2 and 3. If I've got that wrong let me know.
6a. If I have a unit go back into reserve (if it has that rule), and it's Turn 4 or more, are they dead?

7. If a unit has no LOS to me when I declare a charge, they cannot shoot overwatch at me, correct?

8. Can a unit that gets out of a transport declare a charge (assuming they haven't done something else that would otherwise prevent a charge, such as Advance)?

9. If I declare a charge against two (or more) units, and roll enough to reach all of them, do I have to make contact with all of them?

10. Do pistols really give me extra shots during the shooting phase when I'm in combat? That seems like a bunch of extra attacks that the enemy can do little about.

11. Have the "everything can wound everything" and existence of multi-damage weapons rendered mid-to-high toughness creatures with lots of wounds worth a lot less than they really are (I'm looking at you Mr. Carnifex and Mr. Hierodule)?

12. Where are the rules for First Blood/Slay the Warlord/Linebreaker?
12a. I've seen some battle reports refer to "First Strike", is this like First Blood only it doesn't instantly go to whomever went first? Where are those rules?

That's all I've got for now I think. I'm sure more will come up.

The only other really important question might be:

Are there any significant changes made to the game since the rulebook came out (things like the reserve rules, the anti-CP farming rules, etc).

Thanks!

(NB: I didn't post this in YMDC as that forum is about rules question/interpretations/rulings, whereas these are more general questions about the basic functions of the game. If that's wrong a mod can move it.)

5 - You can spend multiple CP per phase, but you can only use each Stratagem once

12 - On the Mission pages

1. Sort of yes. You're only battleforged if all your units are in valid detachments and your army has a shared faction keyword.

2. They allow characters who otherwise wouldn't be able to participate in a fight phase in your opponent's turn to get into melee range and fight, provided they are already nearby.

3. INFANTRY can move through walls of Ruins. It must be defined as a ruin, you can't move through other walls. The logic is a ruin is falling apart and the Infantry will find a gap. Line of site rules still apply, you will only be able to shoot if it is possible to draw a line from the shooting model to the target.

4. You cannot go within 1" of an enemy model at any point in your movement.

5. You can use as many command points as you want, but each stratagem can only be used once per phase.

6. Correct.

6a. Potentially, it depends on the specific rule.

7. Correct, overwatch is done before you make the charge move and they must have line of sight at that point.

8. Yes, unless the transport has a rule that says otherwise (eg Impulsor in certain circumstances).

9. No, you only need to reach one of them. They will all get to shoot overwatch at you though.

10. Yes, however you wont get the benefit of it until your next turn (as you can shoot normal weapons before you charge usually anyway). Also most pistols aren't very scary.

11. Everything wounds everything isnt a big deal. Statistically a weapon that only wounds on a 6 and has poor ap and damage as most low strength weapons do wont do much to you. Most things got more wounds than previous editions too. Invuln saves are much more valuable this edition though. Ultimately it really depends on the specific example. Carnifexes can be taken down without too much difficulty, but they're still an alright unit that sees play.

12. They are specific to each mission, choose a mission and then see what rules apply.
12a. As above.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I admit to being in a weird situation where I've been playing 40k since the dying days of RT, but I don't know the current version very well. We had a few games at my place the other week - for some of us the first of 8th we'd ever played - and we made a lot of mistakes. One mistake I made was with my infantry, and counting as holding an objective despite how many I had thanks to the 'Extensions of the Hive Mind' rule my 'Nids have.

It was only after the game that I found out that everyone has a variation of this rule (Despoilers of the Galaxy, Strength of Faith, Dis is Ours! Zog Off!, and so on). It made me wonder what the actual point of this rule was, given that everyone has it, but then it made me ask: When is an army not Battle Forged?

So I have some newbie questions that I'm sure some of you will roll your eyes at, but as I'm planning another couple of games this weekend with someone who has even less experience than me, I thought it best to clear some things up:

1. When is an army not Battle Forged?
Is it if I take a detachment of a different army (eg. a Red Corsair Battalion with an allied Thousand Sons Spearhead Detachment)?
1a. Why does the "All your Troops score objectives regardless of numbers" rule exist if everyone has it?

Armies are Battleforged when all the detachments from the army share a common Faction keyword. The existence of the Objective Secured rules is a classic example of GW failing at games design. They didn't have it in the original rules and then added it in with various different names, which leads to the confusion you originally had where people think it's a unique rule for their army. GW still thinks people take non-Battleforged armies for some reason, so keeps include ng that clause in lots of rules. It'd be easier if they just required all armies to be Battleforged in the first place.

2. What do Heroic Interventions actually do? I don't understand the purpose.

They allow characters to get involved in combats even when they weren't charged. It's a very powerful ability because if a unit charges but doesn't declare the character as a charge target they can't fight back against that character while the character can fight against them.

3. Infantry can move through solid walls for the purposes of movement. Does that mean they can shoot out of ruins regardless of whether there are windows/doors/flat walls/etc. in the way as well?

Shooting requires Line of Sight (unless the weapon specifies otherwise) so no, infantry still require LoS to shoot through ruins. Note that 40k uses "true" LoS so there's no abstractions for terrain like there used to be, everything is based on a model-by-model LoS check.

4. I'm not allowed within 1" of an enemy model. Is that I cannot end up within 1", or cannot come within 1" during any part of my movement?

You can't come within 1" of an enemy at any point unless you're charging or you can Fly.

5. I can only use one command point (or points, if the stratagem has a higher cost) per phase (so one during movement, one during psychic, etc.), and I cannot use the same stratagem twice in a turn?

Not quite. You can only use each specific stratagem once per phase but can spend as many CPs per phase as you want as long as you don't reuse a stratagem.

6. Units coming in from reserve (Genestealers hiding in burrows, Flyrants, Termies, etc.) cannot do so during the first turn, but must arrive by the third turn, meaning reserves can really only come on during turns 2 and 3. If I've got that wrong let me know.
6a. If I have a unit go back into reserve (if it has that rule), and it's Turn 4 or more, are they dead?

Correct, reserves generally only come on in turns 2 or 3. For the second part, I believe they count as dead if they're in reserve after turn 3 but there might be some specific exceptions, which you'll need to check the relevant FAQs for.

7. If a unit has no LOS to me when I declare a charge, they cannot shoot overwatch at me, correct?

Correct.

8. Can a unit that gets out of a transport declare a charge (assuming they haven't done something else that would otherwise prevent a charge, such as Advance)?

Yes.

9. If I declare a charge against two (or more) units, and roll enough to reach all of them, do I have to make contact with all of them?

No, just one of them. Note that every unit you declare as a charge target can potentially overwatch you.

10. Do pistols really give me extra shots during the shooting phase when I'm in combat? That seems like a bunch of extra attacks that the enemy can do little about.

They do. Note they no longer give an extra attack in the Fight phase though.

11. Have the "everything can wound everything" and existence of multi-damage weapons rendered mid-to-high toughness creatures with lots of wounds worth a lot less than they really are (I'm looking at you Mr. Carnifex and Mr. Hierodule)?

Note really. Monsters and vehicles also got more wounds than in previous editions so it sort of balances out. Obviously, some are better balanced than others but "everything can wound everything" isn't really much of a problem given the many steps needed to get a wound through. Yes, Guardsmen can now lasgun a Land Raider to death, but not in the length of time a regular game normally takes.

12. Where are the rules for First Blood/Slay the Warlord/Linebreaker?
12a. I've seen some battle reports refer to "First Strike", is this like First Blood only it doesn't instantly go to whomever went first? Where are those rules?

Those rules are all mission specific (though common to pretty much all missions) so they'll be noted in the rules for the mission.

That's all I've got for now I think. I'm sure more will come up.

The only other really important question might be:

Are there any significant changes made to the game since the rulebook came out (things like the reserve rules, the anti-CP farming rules, etc).

There are lots of changes and they're scattered across multiple different documents because GW still has no idea how to properly curate rules. All the current FAQs and errata are at https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It was only after the game that I found out that everyone has a variation of this rule (Despoilers of the Galaxy, Strength of Faith, Dis is Ours! Zog Off!, and so on). It made me wonder what the actual point of this rule was, given that everyone has it, but then it made me ask: When is an army not Battle Forged?

It's just "fluffy name" for "troop are objective secured". Remember according to GW mantra now USR are bad.

1a. Why does the "All your Troops score objectives regardless of numbers" rule exist if everyone has it?

Because otherwise non-troops(elite, fast attack) etc would score just as easily.

2. What do Heroic Interventions actually do? I don't understand the purpose.

Enemy charges unit A. Your hero joins in and gives 'em good kicking. Particularly handy if opponent doesn't declare charge against character so they can't attack character. Blood angels can also heroic intervene with other units than characters with stratagem. Nothing like 4 aggressors tagging into your knight and you can't attack them(happened yesterday. didn't know of such stratagem)

3. Infantry can move through solid walls for the purposes of movement. Does that mean they can shoot out of ruins regardless of whether there are windows/doors/flat walls/etc. in the way as well?

If they can see yes, if not no. No rule is given for LOS ignoring.

4. I'm not allowed within 1" of an enemy model. Is that I cannot end up within 1", or cannot come within 1" during any part of my movement?

Any part.

5. I can only use one command point (or points, if the stratagem has a higher cost) per phase (so one during movement, one during psychic, etc.), and I cannot use the same stratagem twice in a turn?

You can use same stratagem once per phase. But movement phase, shooting, psychic etc you can use 1 per phase. Not many can be used in every phase but one is command reroll...

6. Units coming in from reserve (Genestealers hiding in burrows, Flyrants, Termies, etc.) cannot do so during the first turn, but must arrive by the third turn, meaning reserves can really only come on during turns 2 and 3. If I've got that wrong let me know.
6a. If I have a unit go back into reserve (if it has that rule), and it's Turn 4 or more, are they dead?

Yes and no.

7. If a unit has no LOS to me when I declare a charge, they cannot shoot overwatch at me, correct?

8. Can a unit that gets out of a transport declare a charge (assuming they haven't done something else that would otherwise prevent a charge, such as Advance)?

Yes and yes.

9. If I declare a charge against two (or more) units, and roll enough to reach all of them, do I have to make contact with all of them?

No. Common use is declare nearest as backup if you can't reach further away target

10. Do pistols really give me extra shots during the shooting phase when I'm in combat? That seems like a bunch of extra attacks that the enemy can do little about.

Very rare thing. Nerf compared to before ccw+pistol extra attack opponent could do little about either.

11. Have the "everything can wound everything" and existence of multi-damage weapons rendered mid-to-high toughness creatures with lots of wounds worth a lot less than they really are (I'm looking at you Mr. Carnifex and Mr. Hierodule)?

Depends on unit. Carnifexes are still bloody good spammed with tooooons of shots.

12. Where are the rules for First Blood/Slay the Warlord/Linebreaker?[
12a. I've seen some battle reports refer to "First Strike", is this like First Blood only it doesn't instantly go to whomever went first? Where are those rules?[/b]

In scenarios. Depends on scenario. First strike is 2018 CA introduction. It's if you kill enemy unit in 1st turn. Both players can score.

Are there any significant changes made to the game since the rulebook came out (things like the reserve rules, the anti-CP farming rules, etc).

Ahahaha. Piles of. Check faq's. More stuff there than in rulebooks.

Regarding the Battle forged rule, question one, no one has actually articulated it correctly.

All units in each detachment must share a keyword, but the detachments don't have to share keywords with each other.

So if I have a pure Imperial guard brigade and pure space marine battalion, my army is still battle forged, but if one of my Imperial guard guys is included in my space marine detachment, it isn't.

As for the objective secured variant rules, remember that they only apply to TROOPS, not elites, heavies, etc.

So the purpose of the rule is to make your troops better at holding objectives than your opponents elites or other unit types. Since your opponent will have a version of the same rule, his/her troops will also be better at claiming objectives than your, elites, etc.

If the rule didn't exist, other unit types than troops could punk objectives way too easily. Because of this rule, they can't. Could GW have made this a core rule rather than put it in every dex? Yes.

But that doesn't mean the rule is pointless.

PenitentJake wrote:
Regarding the Battle forged rule, question one, no one has actually articulated it correctly.

All units in each detachment must share a keyword, but the detachments don't have to share keywords with each other.

So if I have a pure Imperial guard brigade and pure space marine battalion, my army is still battle forged, but if one of my Imperial guard guys is included in my space marine detachment, it isn't.

Sorry, this isn't right. You're army's not BF unless all units share a keyword, even across detachments. The reason you can mix Guard and Marines, and still have a BF army, is that they share the IMPERIUM keyword.

The whole army must share a keyword, though it is more relaxed than the detachment based Battle Brothers. It may be CHAOS, IMPERIUM, TYRANID, or AELDARI.

The detachment rule also only applies to matched play. The army wide rule is a general rule, though outside of matched play you are not required to be battleforged so can choose to ignore it.

I'll mainly address the first question. To be Battle-forged, your entire army has to have at least one unifying keyword (e.g. IMPERIUM) across all your detachments.

You can have multiple detachments of different groups as long as there's one unified keyword for the army; you can no longer use Imperium/Chaos/Aeldari/Tyranid as the grouping in the SAME detachment, but nobody really did that anyway. This is the reason why soup is allowed to exist because you can take one detachment of Guard and one detachment of Ultramarines and one detachment of Knights and your army counts as battle-forged because they all share the <IMPERIUM> keyword. Each detachment then has to share a keyword (excluding the ones above) to get the benefit of their subfaction bonus.

There WAS my belief that this was not alway true since the Renegade Chapters section of Vigilus inexplicably has different wording (it says something like "if your army is made up of Renegade Chapters" when it talks about being able to pick the subfaction traits which don't appear anywhere else in any other book with that similar wording) but nobody paid any attention to it when it was brought up and GW never clarified why this had different wording, so nobody cares if it is, and nothing else to my knowledge has used that wording so it's likely just poor choice of words rather than an actual change.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I admit to being in a weird situation where I've been playing 40k since the dying days of RT, but I don't know the current version very well. We had a few games at my place the other week - for some of us the first of 8th we'd ever played - and we made a lot of mistakes. One mistake I made was with my infantry, and counting as holding an objective despite how many I had thanks to the 'Extensions of the Hive Mind' rule my 'Nids have.

It was only after the game that I found out that everyone has a variation of this rule (Despoilers of the Galaxy, Strength of Faith, Dis is Ours! Zog Off!, and so on). It made me wonder what the actual point of this rule was, given that everyone has it, but then it made me ask: When is an army not Battle Forged?

So I have some newbie questions that I'm sure some of you will roll your eyes at, but as I'm planning another couple of games this weekend with someone who has even less experience than me, I thought it best to clear some things up:

1. When is an army not Battle Forged?
Is it if I take a detachment of a different army (eg. a Red Corsair Battalion with an allied Thousand Sons Spearhead Detachment)?
1a. Why does the "All your Troops score objectives regardless of numbers" rule exist if everyone has it?

2. What do Heroic Interventions actually do? I don't understand the purpose.

3. Infantry can move through solid walls for the purposes of movement. Does that mean they can shoot out of ruins regardless of whether there are windows/doors/flat walls/etc. in the way as well?

4. I'm not allowed within 1" of an enemy model. Is that I cannot end up within 1", or cannot come within 1" during any part of my movement?

5. I can only use one command point (or points, if the stratagem has a higher cost) per phase (so one during movement, one during psychic, etc.), and I cannot use the same stratagem twice in a turn?

6. Units coming in from reserve (Genestealers hiding in burrows, Flyrants, Termies, etc.) cannot do so during the first turn, but must arrive by the third turn, meaning reserves can really only come on during turns 2 and 3. If I've got that wrong let me know.
6a. If I have a unit go back into reserve (if it has that rule), and it's Turn 4 or more, are they dead?

7. If a unit has no LOS to me when I declare a charge, they cannot shoot overwatch at me, correct?

8. Can a unit that gets out of a transport declare a charge (assuming they haven't done something else that would otherwise prevent a charge, such as Advance)?

9. If I declare a charge against two (or more) units, and roll enough to reach all of them, do I have to make contact with all of them?

10. Do pistols really give me extra shots during the shooting phase when I'm in combat? That seems like a bunch of extra attacks that the enemy can do little about.

11. Have the "everything can wound everything" and existence of multi-damage weapons rendered mid-to-high toughness creatures with lots of wounds worth a lot less than they really are (I'm looking at you Mr. Carnifex and Mr. Hierodule)?

12. Where are the rules for First Blood/Slay the Warlord/Linebreaker?
12a. I've seen some battle reports refer to "First Strike", is this like First Blood only it doesn't instantly go to whomever went first? Where are those rules?

That's all I've got for now I think. I'm sure more will come up.

The only other really important question might be:

Are there any significant changes made to the game since the rulebook came out (things like the reserve rules, the anti-CP farming rules, etc).

Thanks!

(NB: I didn't post this in YMDC as that forum is about rules question/interpretations/rulings, whereas these are more general questions about the basic functions of the game. If that's wrong a mod can move it.)

1. By basically ignoring the detachments and running anything you want, it's actually quite hard not to be battle forged.
1.a) 7th ed had the Objective Secured rule where troops held an objective regardless of the presence of any enemy models (that weren't themselves troops). This was removed for 8th and was found to hurt the kind of troops that are only really good for objective holding, so it was brought back in.

2. Gets characters into combat easier.

3. No, this game uses true line of sight.

4. You cannot move within an 1" of an enemy model at any time. Not that Flyers are unique in that you can move within 1" of and even over their base, but you can't finish your move within 1" of them.

5. You can use as many command points in a phase as you like, but you are restricted in that each stratagem can only be used once per phase.

6. Correct
6.a) This has been FAQ'd so that units like Mawlocs that can return to reserve can come back onto the board from turn 4 onwards, only units that start the game in reserve are destroyed if they don't come on by turn 3.

7. Correct.

8. Yes. Note that this has now been FAQ'd however so that if a unit is forced to disembark because their transport was destroyed, they cannot then charge in the same turn. This will mostly only apply to transports destroyed in overwatch.

9. You only have to move to one of them.

10. Yes, though it has to be said that most pistols are rubbish.

11. Not exactly. Hierodules are aweful because they cost as much as a Knight without the damage output, defence or force multipliers to match. Carnifexes are better than they have been for a couple of editions now but thanks to some morron *cough* Robin Crudface*cough* taking away their high strength they're best used as a shooting platform now. Talos and Grotesques are utterly amazing, as are Tau Broadsides and Commanders, Daemon Princes and Lords Discordant. Generally speaking though if it hasn't got an invuln or more wounds than you'd expect then it will die quickly, which is why a lot of the Tyranids monsters seem overpriced.

12. On the mission sheet, they'll be listed at the end. First Strike replaced First Blood in Chapter Approved 2018, basically First Blood is all but guaranteed for whoever goes first most of the time, whilst with First Strike you score a point if you kill something in your first turn so both players have a chance to score it.

As for significant changes, sodding loads. I recommend getting Chapter Approved 2019 for the missions alone, they are the best GW has ever done and the first page of the Matched Play rules in that book gives you all the rules they've brought in over the last 2 1/2 years like Acceptable Casualties (tabling no longer ends the game) and Boots on the Ground (Flyers can't hold objectives, you also used to count as being tabled if flyers were all you had left but Acceptable Casualties made that part redundant).

Going through the FAQ's, particularly the general ones like Design Commentary, is a must. GW likes to blur the distinction between FAQ and Errata at times.

Random little factoid, the "Objective secured rule" actually varies faction to faction, it's not always just troops.

Off the top of my head, Imperial Guard Leman Russ tanks get objective secured if they're taken in a spearhead detachment, mentioned in the IG codex's version of the rule. So yes, I can have 50 terminators but as long as I park one Leman Russ on it I get it. I've also heard of armies where all infantry models get it, I believe deff skullz for orks get this ability.

Would it be better to have a USR that is called Objective Secured, and then just say "Leman Russe's gain obsec if taken in Spearhead detachment?" Yeah, absolutely. The main purpose I see of it is something that's supposed to be dead and gone, aka GW releasing an edition and not updating all the codexes. Which is fixing a problem that shouldn't exist in the first place. As it sits, all the rules in your codex means you're "future proofed" a bit. So hypothetically if GW drops 9th, it doesn't screw over a unit with "zealot" because when the codex was written the unit rerolled to hit but now "zealot" does something weird like reroll advance range. You get the idea. Anyone who remembers the time before 8th can think of an instance where that happened, unless you were space marines and got a codex every edition I suppose.

Thank you everyone for the responses. It has made things much clearer.

I do have a follow-up regarding Heroic Interventions:

My opponent declares that their Chaos Squad is going to charge my Tactical Squad. I've had a Lieutenant supporting this squad (and others) for the entire game, and after my opponent finishes their charge move (declared only at my Tac Squad), my Lt. ends up 2" away from the enemy.

I declare a Heroic Intervention and... end up where exactly? I'm not declaring a charge, so I presume the "not within 1" of the enemy" thing still applies. So I end up 1" away from the enemy. They can't attack me because they didn't charge me... but can they Pile In to me? When it's my Lt.'s turn to attack, does he Pile In?

If anyone could clarify how that works, that would be fantastic.


The other thing, and this is partly why I brought up the Battle Forged thing, is regarding your army "forgetting" who it is. I'm thinking of Space Marine Combat Doctrines specifically.

If have a Battalion and a Spearhead, both are Marines. One is Ultras. One is Iron Hands. I still get to use Combat Doctrines, right? But I take a single Auxiliary to bring, I dunno, an Assassin or a Knight, and all the Marines forget how to use their Combat Doctrines?

I remember there being something similar with Death Guard, where taking Plague Bearers would mean your army loses rules. If anyone can clarify that, please do.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Thank you everyone for the responses. It has made things much clearer.

I do have a follow-up regarding Heroic Interventions:

My opponent declares that their Chaos Squad is going to charge my Tactical Squad. I've had a Lieutenant supporting this squad (and others) for the entire game, and after my opponent finishes their charge move (declared only at my Tac Squad), my Lt. ends up 2" away from the enemy.

I declare a Heroic Intervention and... end up where exactly? I'm not declaring a charge, so I presume the "not within 1" of the enemy" thing still applies. So I end up 1" away from the enemy. They can't attack me because they didn't charge me... but can they Pile In to me? When it's my Lt.'s turn to attack, does he Pile In?

If anyone could clarify how that works, that would be fantastic.


The other thing, and this is partly why I brought up the Battle Forged thing, is regarding your army "forgetting" who it is. I'm thinking of Space Marine Combat Doctrines specifically.

If have a Battalion and a Spearhead, both are Marines. One is Ultras. One is Iron Hands. I still get to use Combat Doctrines, right? But I take a single Auxiliary to bring, I dunno, an Assassin or a Knight, and all the Marines forget how to use their Combat Doctrines?

I remember there being something similar with Death Guard, where taking Plague Bearers would mean your army loses rules. If anyone can clarify that, please do.

Yeah, basically. If you take a unit in the same detachment that doesn't have the same keyword, both of them lose their special rules. So your second example is right. If you take Plaguebearers in a Death Guard detachment using the <NURGLE> keyword, you would still be Battle-forged (they share the <NURGLE> keyword) but neither one would get their special abilities because the Death Guard special requires all units in the detachment to have <DEATH GUARD> as a keyword. So your army is legal, but you don't get any of the faction-specific bonuses, so basically there's zero reason to do it unless they are in a detachment which doesn't care (but in this case the daemons wouldn't get their bonus either so it's still bad).

For example, I've put a unit that doesn't care about the bonus anyway in a detachment with let's say daemon engines (which also don't care) so I lose nothing for doing it. But I wouldn't want to do it in a detachment that includes Plague Marines because they actually benefit from it.

You can move within 1" with a heroic intervention, that's basically the point of it.

You get doctrines if every unit in your army has the rule. If your army mixes Ultras and Iron Hands you get the basic doctrines, but you lose the special doctrines for Ultras and Iron Hands respectively.

If you take an assassin, you completely lose all doctrines.


Doctrines are a special case. With Death Guard you could have a Death Guard detachment and a Nurgle Daemons detachment, separately, and they would each get all their special rules. What you are probably referring to is taking a detachment that is a mix of Death Guard and Nurgle Daemons, unified by the NURGLE keyword. This is a legal detachment, but you lose out on army specific special rules.

But if I took, say, two Detachments, one of Death Guard, and one of (for sake of example) Nurgle Daemons, then that'd be fine, as everything in the Death Guard detachment would be Death Guard models, and would therefore gain the benefits of Inexorable Advance and Plague Host?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
But if I took, say, two Detachments, one of Death Guard, and one of (for sake of example) Nurgle Daemons, then that'd be fine, as everything in the Death Guard detachment would be Death Guard models, and would therefore gain the benefits of Inexorable Advance and Plague Host?

Correct. Most army rules work this way.

Space Marine doctrines are a special case where your entire army needs the rule.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I admit to being in a weird situation where I've been playing 40k since the dying days of RT, but I don't know the current version very well. We had a few games at my place the other week - for some of us the first of 8th we'd ever played - and we made a lot of mistakes. One mistake I made was with my infantry, and counting as holding an objective despite how many I had thanks to the 'Extensions of the Hive Mind' rule my 'Nids have.

It was only after the game that I found out that everyone has a variation of this rule (Despoilers of the Galaxy, Strength of Faith, Dis is Ours! Zog Off!, and so on). It made me wonder what the actual point of this rule was, given that everyone has it, but then it made me ask: When is an army not Battle Forged?

So I have some newbie questions that I'm sure some of you will roll your eyes at, but as I'm planning another couple of games this weekend with someone who has even less experience than me, I thought it best to clear some things up:

1. When is an army not Battle Forged?
Is it if I take a detachment of a different army (eg. a Red Corsair Battalion with an allied Thousand Sons Spearhead Detachment)?

Main rulebook page 240 "If a mission you are playing instructs you to select a Battle-forged army, it means that you must organise all the units in your army into Detachments."

1a. Why does the "All your Troops score objectives regardless of numbers" rule exist if everyone has it?

Not everyone has the exact same rule. Some get ObSec for all their units, some get it for certain units in certain detachments. Armies without codexes don't get it at all. It's a way to incentivise building lists a certain way, like not having mixed-faction Detachments with Troops since they won't benefit or to put for example Astra Militarum Leman Russes into a Spearhead Detachment because of the special Astra Militarum rule that gives them ObSec when included this way.

2. What do Heroic Interventions actually do? I don't understand the purpose.

Allows your characters to get into melee or to move around the melee if they are already in. Take note that your opponent need not charge anything for you to be able to Heroically Intervene at the end of his charge phase, just ask if he's done charging and then do your Heroic Interventions. You need to end closer to the closest enemy model and within 1", but you can do it even if your opponent is within 1" as long as they are not in base contact.

3. Infantry can move through solid walls for the purposes of movement. Does that mean they can shoot out of ruins regardless of whether there are windows/doors/flat walls/etc. in the way as well?

No. It does what it says.

4. I'm not allowed within 1" of an enemy model. Is that I cannot end up within 1", or cannot come within 1" during any part of my movement?

Any part of your movement.

5. I can only use one command point (or points, if the stratagem has a higher cost) per phase (so one during movement, one during psychic, etc.), and I cannot use the same stratagem twice in a turn?

I don't know where you read or heard that but it's false. Read the command point section again. In matched play games (normal games basically) each Stratagem can only be used once per phase.

6. Units coming in from reserve (Genestealers hiding in burrows, Flyrants, Termies, etc.) cannot do so during the first turn, but must arrive by the third turn, meaning reserves can really only come on during turns 2 and 3. If I've got that wrong let me know.

Correct, the only exception are units that specifically mention not following this rule like Space Marine Drop Pods.

6a. If I have a unit go back into reserve (if it has that rule), and it's Turn 4 or more, are they dead?

Yes, unless their rules specifically say otherwise.

7. If a unit has no LOS to me when I declare a charge, they cannot shoot overwatch at me, correct?

Correct, charging through ruins with Infantry is an effective strategy for denying overwatch, your other units can then charge in afterwards.

8. Can a unit that gets out of a transport declare a charge (assuming they haven't done something else that would otherwise prevent a charge, such as Advance)?

Yes.

9. If I declare a charge against two (or more) units, and roll enough to reach all of them, do I have to make contact with all of them?

No. Read the rules for charge phase again, this is one of the most skill-intensive phases of the game and knowing the rules will make you better at the game and doing it early will prevent your group from making up too many rules which will later have to be unlearnt.

10. Do pistols really give me extra shots during the shooting phase when I'm in combat? That seems like a bunch of extra attacks that the enemy can do little about.

It's not extra shots, they can just shoot normally in melee, it's a trivial amount of damage.

11. Have the "everything can wound everything" and existence of multi-damage weapons rendered mid-to-high toughness creatures with lots of wounds worth a lot less than they really are (I'm looking at you Mr. Carnifex and Mr. Hierodule)?

No, as always it all comes down to pts. Carnifexes are good value for their pts (assuming you take the -1 to hit against shooting upgrade), I don't believe the Hierodule is worth it ATM. If you want to find out what is good you should check out tournament lists at 40kstats.

12. Where are the rules for First Blood/Slay the Warlord/Linebreaker?

It's in the individual mission, some don't have those exact secondaries, most of the newer missions have replaced first blood with first strike.

12a. I've seen some battle reports refer to "First Strike", is this like First Blood only it doesn't instantly go to whomever went first? Where are those rules?

On the page of the relevant mission.

Are there any significant changes made to the game since the rulebook came out (things like the reserve rules, the anti-CP farming rules, etc).

Yes, after playing some games you should check out the FAQ and Errata for the main rulebook and your codex. Just search 40k errata on google and you'll find it.

This thread is a wonderful summary of how we desperately need the rules streamlined a bit.... Again.

I miss index hammer

 MrMoustaffa wrote:
This thread is a wonderful summary of how we desperately need the rules streamlined a bit.... Again.

I miss index hammer

Kinda sad how quickly things bloated out of control since the core rules are actually quite solid.

I'm glad the rules are "Bloated."

I always wanted the Order of Our Martyred Lady to behave differently on the battlefield than the Order of the Bloody Rose.

Some factions (Space Marines) have always had uniqueness to their subfactions, whereas other factions are getting that level of granularity for the first time, and that is awesome to me.

It's true though that the language GW uses when writing some rules could be clearer- I just don't blame that on "bloat"- I blame it on tight timelines, weaker language skills and a lack of editorial oversight.

I never wanted a game so streamlined that all factions and subfactions felt the same- it takes away from the incentive to collect multiple armies. I'm not saying the Indexes were that streamlined, but they were close.

You can argue that made the game easier, more balanced and easier to learn- I'd even agree. I just think it also made the game less interesting than it is now.

PenitentJake wrote:
I'm glad the rules are "Bloated."...

Does the bloat have to be "let's write a five-page rulebook, badly screw up the math when redoing all the unit/weapon stats, and then stack thirty billion Stratagems on top of an unstable foundation" to make sub-factions feel distinct? Or could we have had a little bit more detail and sophistication in the core rules, fewer statline screw-ups, and not have to have the pile of thirty billion Stratagems?

So many half correct answers here. Let me clarify.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
1. When is an army not Battle Forged? Is it if I take a detachment of a different army (eg. a Red Corsair Battalion with an allied Thousand Sons Spearhead Detachment)?

An army is battle-forged when all units in the army are in legal detachments. Note that in Match Play, all units in your army must share a Faction Keyword or be Unaligned. Outside of Matched Play, it a battle forged army could be a detachment of Space Marines and a detachment of Tau.

1a. Why does the "All your Troops score objectives regardless of numbers" rule exist if everyone has it?

Because then one Troop model overrides a whole unit of Elites, etc.

2. What do Heroic Interventions actually do? I don't understand the purpose.

Allows you to move a character into combat with nearby opponents on the opponents turn. They Heroically Intervene to save your non-character models.

3. Infantry can move through solid walls for the purposes of movement. Does that mean they can shoot out of ruins regardless of whether there are windows/doors/flat walls/etc. in the way as well?

No. LOS is still required.

4. I'm not allowed within 1" of an enemy model. Is that I cannot end up within 1", or cannot come within 1" during any part of my movement?

You cannot move within 1" of an enemy model during the Movement phase. You are free to move within 1" of enemy models at any other time.

5. I can only use one command point (or points, if the stratagem has a higher cost) per phase (so one during movement, one during psychic, etc.), and I cannot use the same stratagem twice in a turn?

You can spend as many command points and utilize as many stratagems as you wish. In Matched Play, you can not use a specific Stratagem more than once a Phase.

6. Units coming in from reserve (Genestealers hiding in burrows, Flyrants, Termies, etc.) cannot do so during the first turn, but must arrive by the third turn, meaning reserves can really only come on during turns 2 and 3. If I've got that wrong let me know. 6a. If I have a unit go back into reserve (if it has that rule), and it's Turn 4 or more, are they dead?

In Matched Play, that is correct. It does not apply to units that leave the board during play due to special rules.

7. If a unit has no LOS to me when I declare a charge, they cannot shoot overwatch at me, correct?

Correct.

8. Can a unit that gets out of a transport declare a charge (assuming they haven't done something else that would otherwise prevent a charge, such as Advance)?

Yes, as noted in the rules for Transports in the basic rules.

9. If I declare a charge against two (or more) units, and roll enough to reach all of them, do I have to make contact with all of them?

You only have to reach one of your charge targets to complete a legal charge. You are then considered to have "charged" all the units you declared a charge against.

10. Do pistols really give me extra shots during the shooting phase when I'm in combat? That seems like a bunch of extra attacks that the enemy can do little about.

Yes, but you only shoot during your shooting phase.

11. Have the "everything can wound everything" and existence of multi-damage weapons rendered mid-to-high toughness creatures with lots of wounds worth a lot less than they really are (I'm looking at you Mr. Carnifex and Mr. Hierodule)?

It's all in the points. Some models do just fine, others don't.

12. Where are the rules for First Blood/Slay the Warlord/Linebreaker?
12a. I've seen some battle reports refer to "First Strike", is this like First Blood only it doesn't instantly go to whomever went first? Where are those rules?[/b]

In the rules for the specific scenarios that have them.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Thank you everyone for the responses. It has made things much clearer.

I do have a follow-up regarding Heroic Interventions:

My opponent declares that their Chaos Squad is going to charge my Tactical Squad. I've had a Lieutenant supporting this squad (and others) for the entire game, and after my opponent finishes their charge move (declared only at my Tac Squad), my Lt. ends up 2" away from the enemy.

I declare a Heroic Intervention and... end up where exactly? I'm not declaring a charge, so I presume the "not within 1" of the enemy" thing still applies. So I end up 1" away from the enemy. They can't attack me because they didn't charge me... but can they Pile In to me? When it's my Lt.'s turn to attack, does he Pile In?

If anyone could clarify how that works, that would be fantastic.

Since no one clarified this yet, I'll try.

1) The can't move withing 1" part is a rule of the movement phase, so unless a rule explicitly tells you to stay 1" away (many do), you can just walk right into fighting range. This is a big change from previous editions.

2) Fighting works by each player taking turn picking units that are eligible to fight, but haven't fought yet. Any unit that has charged this turn or is within 1" of another unit can be picked, so if your sergeant is within 1" of an enemy, you can pick him. It doesn't really matter, whether he got there through heroic intervention, because an enemy unit piled or consolidated into him or because some rule magically teleported him into someones face. Note that a heroic intervention is by no means a guarantee to fight - if the enemy models get killed or move away before your sergeant has fought, you are no longer allowed to pick him anymore.

3) When a unit is selected to fight, it makes a 3" consolidation move that must take it closer to closest enemy model, then fights(if possible) and then makes another 3" pile-in move that also must take it closer to the closest enemy unit, even if you haven't wiped your opponent (another change many veterans struggle with). As moving 0.1" closer to the closest enemy model satisfies the condition, these moves are often used to run around enemy models to either prevent them from falling back("arresting them") or to get other units into combat to prevent them from shooting next turn. A model in base contact with an enemy can never consolidate or pile in, as they cannot move any closer. Note that a model which has made a successful charge move can do the two 3" moves even if there is no one to fight left.

I hope this helps

Thank you all for clarifying the Heroic Intervention thing.

So I should be doing this all the time with my Guard Officers, right?

Only if you expect an Heroic death with the Heroic Intervention

For death or glory?

No! Death and glory!

Well lf enemy doesn't declare charge vs officers it's fairly risk free. At worst you fall back in your turn. If you have fist you could even kill something

Guard Officer weapons are ornamental. Why would I ever spend points to give them "better" ones?

I'll throw in a quick hijack here since it was something that I came across recently and pertains to heroic interventions.

Characters can heroically intervene even if your opponent made no charges, and their units just ended up within 3" (sometimes 6") of a character at the end of the charge phase. But what is the actual order of operations if I have like 5 characters that all heroically intervene during my opponents charge phase and he made zero charges?

Do I get to go with all my characters first? Is he attacking first? Normally speaking you can't attack someone that heroically intervened into you but I'm under the impression that's not the case unless you HI:ed into a charging unit (meaning they already have a charging target)..

PiñaColada wrote:
I'll throw in a quick hijack here since it was something that I came across recently and pertains to heroic interventions.

Characters can heroically intervene even if your opponent made no charges, and their units just ended up within 3" (sometimes 6") of a character at the end of the charge phase. But what is the actual order of operations if I have like 5 characters that all heroically intervene during my opponents charge phase and he made zero charges?

Do I get to go with all my characters first? Is he attacking first? Normally speaking you can't attack someone that heroically intervened into you but I'm under the impression that's not the case unless you HI:ed into a charging unit (meaning they already have a charging target)..

The characters fight as any other non charging unit.