Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Is it because it keeps getting listed as a "lunch" box? That tipped me off that it might not be real but who am I to judge those who spend £240 on lunch boxes....

 Gert wrote:

RazorEdge wrote:
When the Mk6 Power Armor Marines have only 5 Models per spure, it fits to the Rumor of a Smaller Starter Set with just 10 Tacital Marines.

Except 10 Marines isn't a starter for anything so either the people designing the HH starter set decided to make it worthless as a starter set (unlikely) or the rumour is wrong.

depends, the rumor has it this inital box will be a launch box and we'll see a starter set similer to the 40k and AOS ones, in which case you could be looking at 10 marines, a paperback rules book, 2 HQs a piece of cardboard terrain and a play mat for 50 bucks. that'd honestly be STUPIDLY good. no it wouldn't be a "2000 point army in a box" or something, but it'd be a fantastic first purchase.

value is everything.

BrianDavion wrote:
depends, the rumor has it this inital box will be a launch box and we'll see a starter set similer to the 40k and AOS ones, in which case you could be looking at 10 marines, a paperback rules book, 2 HQs a piece of cardboard terrain and a play mat for 50 bucks. that'd honestly be STUPIDLY good. no it wouldn't be a "2000 point army in a box" or something, but it'd be a fantastic first purchase.

value is everything.

The rumour said 10 Marines only, which is why I said months ago that specific bit couldn't be true because along with the price for the starter set being higher than the AoS and 40k ones, it didn't contain enough models to satisfy one player's basic army needs let alone two.
To be very specific the rumour explicity stated HH would follow the 40k and AoS starter set model with the increasing number of units per box. The prices for these however, were way out of wack and the contents were drastically less than even the Warrior and Recruit editions which have a unit of Troops and an HQ (Recruit also comes with some Scarabs) to form the most basic army requirements for AoS and 40k. If HH goes the same route with a 1 HQ and 1 Troop minimum for the smallest game sizes, then the smallest starter set doesn't even fill that.

 Gert wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
depends, the rumor has it this inital box will be a launch box and we'll see a starter set similer to the 40k and AOS ones, in which case you could be looking at 10 marines, a paperback rules book, 2 HQs a piece of cardboard terrain and a play mat for 50 bucks. that'd honestly be STUPIDLY good. no it wouldn't be a "2000 point army in a box" or something, but it'd be a fantastic first purchase.

value is everything.

The rumour said 10 Marines only, which is why I said months ago that specific bit couldn't be true because along with the price for the starter set being higher than the AoS and 40k ones, it didn't contain enough models to satisfy one player's basic army needs let alone two.

yup, still, 10 marines as the basis seems possiable. but yeah my guess is it'll be 10 marines, some ":quick play" rules a cheap game board and cardboard box that they insist is terrain.

BrianDavion wrote:
yup, still, 10 marines as the basis seems possiable. but yeah my guess is it'll be 10 marines, some ":quick play" rules a cheap game board and cardboard box that they insist is terrain.

How does it seem possible when it doesn't function as a starter set? It doesn't fit the price range and it doesn't fit the basic requirement of actually teaching the new player how to play the smallest scale of the game. The rumours surrounding the starter sets can't be true because it doesn't fit with the business model.
Good god I'm getting flashbacks to the last time I did this.

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Yodhrin wrote:

 Abadabadoobaddon wrote:

-snip-

Faces generally have 2 eyes, a nose, and a mouth. There are subtle differences between individual's faces that make them distinguishable if you look closely. A sea of slightly different faces looks like a crowd. A sea of faces where there are only 5 types and where every face of a given type is identical looks like a clone army. If on top of that, every third face also has an eye patch and pirate hat then it just looks silly.

This is not a difficult concept to grasp.

Flawless and concise, now watch as it's ignored, sidestepped, or gaslit away just like every other argument that's inconvenient.

I mean it works as an arguement for more variety in face options, but when talking about near identical suits of armour?

Identical suits of armor in slightly different poses look like 2 dudes wearing the same suit of armor. Identical suits of armor in exactly the same dynamic walking pose with exactly the same leg and body orientation look like copies. If the kit doesn't have enough variability to break up the poses, then it's preferable to have all poses be as neutral and indistinct as possible so they all blend together and the repeats are less noticable.

But you know, that's just like my opinion, man.

As someone who did the whole military thing, when I see people dressed identically walking in unison I assume that they're in step with each other rather than clones, but you do you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 Crimson wrote:

I care how the models look lie a lot. Thus I'm extremely pleased that these days we have marine models that do not look like misshapen squats that struggle to stand.

Which is completely irrelevant to the fact that GW could easily have made the new kit two different sprues, giving ten different poses, rather than a repeated sprue.

But oh noes! They wouldn't have made such fat stacks doing that!

Repeated sprues are cheaper than multiple unique sprues, so it keeps mold costs down to keep the sprues identical.

BrianDavion wrote:

 Gert wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
depends, the rumor has it this inital box will be a launch box and we'll see a starter set similer to the 40k and AOS ones, in which case you could be looking at 10 marines, a paperback rules book, 2 HQs a piece of cardboard terrain and a play mat for 50 bucks. that'd honestly be STUPIDLY good. no it wouldn't be a "2000 point army in a box" or something, but it'd be a fantastic first purchase.

value is everything.

The rumour said 10 Marines only, which is why I said months ago that specific bit couldn't be true because along with the price for the starter set being higher than the AoS and 40k ones, it didn't contain enough models to satisfy one player's basic army needs let alone two.

yup, still, 10 marines as the basis seems possiable. but yeah my guess is it'll be 10 marines, some ":quick play" rules a cheap game board and cardboard box that they insist is terrain.

More likely if it only has 10 marines, it would only have the 10 marines but also some other unit to face against them (even if they are not troops) and a pair of characters.

Selling a box of 10 marines is not a starter set. Especially as this one is rumored for to cost more than the AoS and 40k ones, which both contain two units and two characters.

 Gert wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
yup, still, 10 marines as the basis seems possiable. but yeah my guess is it'll be 10 marines, some ":quick play" rules a cheap game board and cardboard box that they insist is terrain.

How does it seem possible when it doesn't function as a starter set? It doesn't fit the price range and it doesn't fit the basic requirement of actually teaching the new player how to play the smallest scale of the game. The rumours surrounding the starter sets can't be true because it doesn't fit with the business model.
Good god I'm getting flashbacks to the last time I did this.

Something different about this starter is that all the contents could be used by one person for the same army, (Maybe one HQ couldn't) along with GW seeing HH as another opportunity to bilk older whale buyers used to paying more for these kits from FW (Even if recent years has seen the plastics) and an uncertain economic environment from all the fallout of the war in Ukraine and it seems likely that the basic starter for HH has just a squad and no HQs.

GW are probably also concerned about sales cannibalisation from a source of cheap upscaled 'first born' if the Starter deals are too good. (Though I'm not sure how much they're selling of the 98' style Marines, they still sell them and for all we know they could be planning to release an upscaled tac squad)

One thing I noticed recently is that GW got very stingy with the number of models in their 3rd ed AoS paint sets. They now have 2 models in the Stormcast version and 3 in the Orruk whereas the 40k versions (Both 8th and 9th) have 3 in both and the 2ed AoS ones had 3 in the Stormcast and 4 in the Nighthaunt.

We now have a situation where the fantasy equivalent of something comes with fewer models than the 40k version!

It is a possibility that they could be shifting the smaller starter sets to single player starter sets. That said, if the rumored price is correct (40 pounds, which generally means 60 USD in the States), they definitely are going to have a hard time selling it if it's just some get started pamphlets and a squad of Marines. Maybe if they included on of the mini-rulebooks also. This is going to be extra true as many of the launch boxes will be broken down, and if there are 40 Mark VI marines in them, I can't imagine squads selling for more than 40 USD on Ebay.

If they really are trying to get people to play Horus Heresy and run it as a big line game, they will have to put out starter sets that are at least relatively comparable to the 40k and AoS ones in price and contents - especially as it's not like GW is selling starter sets at a loss.

People like two player starter sets because it lets them test out the game. Putting out a niche game system with starter sets that are objectively worse in terms of contents and price, and then setting them on the same shelf as the starters for your other two big games (one of which is directly competing for Sci-fi fans and is the most popular miniature game ever) is like asking that niche system to fail.

About the Intercessor Sqaud and Intercessor Assault Sqaud from the Starter Sets; is there any difference in the modularity in relation to the seperate Squad Box sets?

RazorEdge wrote:
About the Intercessor Sqaud and Intercessor Assault Sqaud from the Starter Sets; is there any difference in the modularity in relation to the seperate Squad Box sets?

The ones from the starters are push fits, whereas the regular release boxes have fixed bodies but options in arms and heads, at least in the case if the regular ones. I remember I cut the arms of all the repeated ones I got and used a variety of others.

 Sabotage! wrote:
It is a possibility that they could be shifting the smaller starter sets to single player starter sets. That said, if the rumored price is correct (40 pounds, which generally means 60 USD in the States), they definitely are going to have a hard time selling it if it's just some get started pamphlets and a squad of Marines. Maybe if they included on of the mini-rulebooks also. This is going to be extra true as many of the launch boxes will be broken down, and if there are 40 Mark VI marines in them, I can't imagine squads selling for more than 40 USD on Ebay.

If they really are trying to get people to play Horus Heresy and run it as a big line game, they will have to put out starter sets that are at least relatively comparable to the 40k and AoS ones in price and contents - especially as it's not like GW is selling starter sets at a loss.

People like two player starter sets because it lets them test out the game. Putting out a niche game system with starter sets that are objectively worse in terms of contents and price, and then setting them on the same shelf as the starters for your other two big games (one of which is directly competing for Sci-fi fans and is the most popular miniature game ever) is like asking that niche system to fail.

keep in mind 10 marines would allow 2 5 man squads. the hersy is just a bit odd in that technicly any combination save something like "and 4 HQs" is going to be a decent 1 person army too

NightReconnaissance wrote:
Something different about this starter is that all the contents could be used by one person for the same army, (Maybe one HQ couldn't) along with GW seeing HH as another opportunity to bilk older whale buyers used to paying more for these kits from FW (Even if recent years has seen the plastics) and an uncertain economic environment from all the fallout of the war in Ukraine and it seems likely that the basic starter for HH has just a squad and no HQs.

Ok, there are many dumb points here.
Firstly, a starter set that doesn't get someone started in the game system is not something that sells. GW isn't making big bucks on the starter sets but that doesn't matter because they are the hook that gets people into buying more models. If the starter set doesn't work as a hook then it doesn't sell which means people don't buy more models.
Secondly, the UK economy has been taking hit after hit due to Brexit, not the situation in Ukraine. In fact, Ukraine has literally nothing to do with why GW increases its prices or why the cost of living in the UK has increased stupidly this year.
Thirdly, GW doesn't care what you do with the models, in fact when Calth was released it was specifically billed as its own thing but also a good way to start one or two armies for HH, to the point where FW did Legion army bundles with upgrade packs and the Calth box. If the HH starter set is a good deal for making one army as well as two, that means more people will be likely to buy it which means more money in the coffers and more models bought in the future. It is a win-win situation for GW.

GW are probably also concerned about sales cannibalisation from a source of cheap upscaled 'first born' if the Starter deals are too good. (Though I'm not sure how much they're selling of the 98' style Marines, they still sell them and for all we know they could be planning to release an upscaled tac squad)

This logic doesn't make sense. GW is scared people are going to buy into HH so the starter set is changed to make it a useless starter set.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

BrianDavion wrote:
keep in mind 10 marines would allow 2 5 man squads. the hersy is just a bit odd in that technicly any combination save something like "and 4 HQs" is going to be a decent 1 person army too

And yet 10 Marines doesn't make a usable army for either player unless they aren't actually playing HH, which then defeats the point of a starter set.
Why are people coming up with these convoluted nonsense theories instead of just taking the obvious one, which is that the starter set section of the rumour dump is clearly wrong.

 Albertorius wrote:

RazorEdge wrote:
About the Intercessor Sqaud and Intercessor Assault Sqaud from the Starter Sets; is there any difference in the modularity in relation to the seperate Squad Box sets?

The ones from the starters are push fits, whereas the regular release boxes have fixed bodies but options in arms and heads, at least in the case if the regular ones. I remember I cut the arms of all the repeated ones I got and used a variety of others.

The intercessor squads that came in the DV box had arms cut up in odd spots, not easy to kit bash, although it could be done. And sometimes that’s all it took; the sarges were easy to arm/head swap. Basic troopers, a lot less easy. Big difference between the starter set and the full box.

The assault intercessors from the indominus box had all the arms on simple pegs to the torsos. Once you clipped those off, we are left with flat torso mounts just like the full kit. Now, all the kit, pistols, grenades, etc. are still molded on, so not full customization. I turned 5 of them into autobolt rifle intercessors with minimal effort.

So we have different examples of starter marines vs. full kits. Who knows how the Mk. VI will be.

 Nevelon wrote:
Who knows how the Mk. VI will be.

That's exactly the point why I was asking this question.

Some rumours said there will be "full Set" Models in the Lunch Box (tm) and the Starters Sets but I guess we will see "simpler starter" Models like in the Starter Sets from 40k and AoS.

RazorEdge wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
Who knows how the Mk. VI will be.

That's exactly the point why I was asking this question.

Some rumours said there will be "full Set" Models in the Lunch Box (tm) and the Starters Sets but I'm sure we will see "simpler starter" Models like in the Starter Sets from 40k and AoS.

I don’t think we’ll have an answer for that until we see the sprue pictures. The precedent is all over the place with no consistency, and covers a wide spectrum of options.

 Nevelon wrote:

RazorEdge wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
Who knows how the Mk. VI will be.

That's exactly the point why I was asking this question.

Some rumours said there will be "full Set" Models in the Lunch Box (tm) and the Starters Sets but I'm sure we will see "simpler starter" Models like in the Starter Sets from 40k and AoS.

I don’t think we’ll have an answer for that until we see the sprue pictures. The precedent is all over the place with no consistency, and covers a wide spectrum of options.

Yeah. Chances are, if the sprues are the size of the ones from the regular boxes and without mixed bits from other stuff, that they will probably be the ones that will go in the standard boxes. Otherwise, they will clearly be special ones for the release.

RazorEdge wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
Who knows how the Mk. VI will be.

That's exactly the point why I was asking this question.

Some rumours said there will be "full Set" Models in the Lunch Box (tm) and the Starters Sets but I guess we will see "simpler starter" Models like in the Starter Sets from 40k and AoS.

I am effectively certain that the new beakies they've shown pictures of are a full kit. You can see it in the arm, shouldderpad and accessory details, and of course we've seen the same bodies with different arms and accessories. It's a full kit.

 Crimson wrote:

RazorEdge wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
Who knows how the Mk. VI will be.

That's exactly the point why I was asking this question.

Some rumours said there will be "full Set" Models in the Lunch Box (tm) and the Starters Sets but I guess we will see "simpler starter" Models like in the Starter Sets from 40k and AoS.

I am effectively certain that the new beakies they've shown pictures of are a full kit. You can see it in the arm, shouldderpad and accessory details, and of course we've seen the same bodies with different arms and accessories. It's a full kit.

The whc article talked about choices of accessories and bayonets on the mk6 models. So clearly not ETB. So have to agree with crimson here.

RazorEdge wrote:

angryboy2k wrote:
Apologies for going off topic and not discussing the poseability or lack thereof of these figures.

Does anyone have an idea of the contents and price of this starter box that has been occasionally referred to?

240 British Pounds for

40 Mk6 Marines
10 Cataphractii Terminators
2 Characters
1 Dreadnought
1 Spartan Tank
Rulebook
Campaign Booklet

Wow 500$ Canadian dollars for the starter set....wow.... its usually close to double the UK price here in Canada, I cant imagine what the aussies and NZ'ers are paying.

I mean, it’s pretty much a core army right out of the box.

Not claiming “therefore it is cheap”. Just providing context for folk to draw their own conclusion.

Also we will see (first) a Launch Box (as WarCom noted).

When one or three Starter Sets come later, it/ they will have a lower Price (with fewer content).


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Matrindur wrote:
I just noticed that MK IV Marines and Tartaros/Catapractii Terminators are gone from the webstore.
Does anyone know how long that has been the case?

Also anyone know why they are gone since if its just a reboxing that normally only means they go no longer available instead of completely deleting the webstore-page.

In the german Webshop, the Characters from Calth and the Mark III are the only HH Sets they still sell. This seems happen some time ago, they had already disappeared when I looked into the last time the webshop at the End of last Year - November or December.

I like new MK6 marines but the more I think of it, the less I want to add another big box to my pile of unfinished projects. I am still tempted to hop onto Heresy 2.0 bandwagon in some way, perhaps by painting one model for each Legion using models from Betrayal of Calth, Burning of Prospero and couple of MK6's from current tactical squad.

 Sabotage! wrote:

People like two player starter sets because it lets them test out the game. Putting out a niche game system with starter sets that are objectively worse in terms of contents and price, and then setting them on the same shelf as the starters for your other two big games (one of which is directly competing for Sci-fi fans and is the most popular miniature game ever) is like asking that niche system to fail.

But it is a two player starter set.5 marines aside. In the base 40k starter there are only 5 marines versus 10 necrons and the 2 HQs.

I think it's a combination of sales issues from there being stuff that could be used by one person in one army and just general aversion to having anything that is a deal for HH. Remember HH isn't supposed to be for new players, it's intended for existing players or people already into the HH novels. So in their minds 'starter set' having a squad + the rules/other gaming materials for roughly the price of a squad is the deal. You're saving on the rule book.

5 Marines aside isn't a two player game when both sides also need an HQ each and possibly another Troop if HH sticks with the current force org.
And the whole point of this HH revamp is to get all types of players into HH.
So wrong on both counts.

Has there been a pre order date announced yet? I feel like I've been waiting for this box set for a long, long time...

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
Has there been a pre order date announced yet? I feel like I've been waiting for this box set for a long, long time...

The box set existing in the first place wasn't even announced.

 Undead_Love-Machine wrote:
Has there been a pre order date announced yet? I feel like I've been waiting for this box set for a long, long time...

Nope. All we know for sure is that the 'Horus Heresy Open Day' is 7th May.

I just want plastic breacher squads. D:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I mean, it’s pretty much a core army right out of the box.

Not claiming “therefore it is cheap”. Just providing context for folk to draw their own conclusion.

so 500 canadian for 40 mk VI marines (60 dollars per box of 10)
10 Cataphracti Terminators (60 or 70 per box of 5)
2 character (45 bucks)
1 Dreadnought (the original cataphracti was 65? or 70 bucks or so. I expect the new one to be the same or more. we'll assume 70 bucks)
1 Spartan Tank (we'll assume the cost of a land raider, 100 bucks)

that comes out to kit contents worth about 620 dollars before the rulebook. assuming the rule book is the hard cover rule book we've gotten in the 40k and AOS launch boxes, that's about 700 bucks worth of stuff.

so expensive but not a bad deal