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Ahh the ringwraith comes with the accompanying Frodo. Excellent. Saves me tracking both down individually. This will be a comparatively light MtO for me. Just the Ringwraith, the two Hobbits & Gollum needed out of this batch. I managed to track down Theoden after I missed him last time.
I am partial to those warg sculpts though so depending on the price, I might grab another set.

I'll definitely get the Helms Deep set. Best Gimli sculpt and I always liked that Eowyn variant. Might get the Wargs too, just because they're such well executed models.

Interesting they are doing the fellbeast and the rangers, given they have current plastic sculpts.

They always tend to do that when a new release happens as it catches peoples interest in the classic sculpts. As an aside, the rangers are so superior to the plastics, they are a must for me.

I guess it checks out with all of them being Two Towers specific, even if it is a month late for the 20th Anniversary. Rangers are from the Captured By Gondor set, and they add a few more flavour sculpts to a collection.

Very pleased with the fell beast coming back, especially with the new Osgiliath terrain. Costs permitting, I'd love to get an extra one for a vignette.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
They always tend to do that when a new release happens as it catches peoples interest in the classic sculpts. As an aside, the rangers are so superior to the plastics, they are a must for me.

I'm generally all for metal but those rangers are like a foot taller than everyone else. At least the plastics are more in scale.

Thankfully I can skip this one as I already have the battering ram.

How does the size of the metal Fellbeast compare to the current plastic kit? Would they look okay mixed together for a bit of variety?

They're about the same, so they fit in together.

Some of those are pretty dire.

Is the battering ram something that's worthwhile, play wise?

Such as?

And it's used for siege games.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
A new MTO for a new year:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/01/20/made-to-order-returns-to-middle-earth-alongside-the-2023-hobby-bingo/?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=middle-earth&utm_content=mesbgbingo20012023&fbclid=IwAR3mIuT2-2BPUl-XrdSZtLA1EQtiDRIHqgO1TnW1_78RS9e-__GMAq3owxY


A few standouts in the unarmoured Theoden, metal rangers and the original ringwraith on fellbeast and a couple of repeats.

Going to be some hard choices for me when this one comes around. I'd manage to get quite a few of the helms deep ones, including doubles of that Éowyn from buying up 2nd hand collections. But I'm missing quite a few in the that set as a whole, but I'm not sure I really need them all (other than the FOMO kicking in)

I was also able to pick up that gandalf the white set new in blister for a really good price. So thats saved a little bit there!

But those felbeasts might ruin me. I've been wanting 9 total, I have 3 of the plastic ones already but the metal one has been escaping me on multiple occasions on 2nd hand pages. To have an easy way to pick several up at once is going to be hard to not to go a bit mad!

I will pick up the Gimli on Uruk-hai, as been kicking myself for not buying it since day one. Those wargs are going to be pretty hard not to grab too, as it would be nice for some variety to add to the plastic ones I have. I have been avoiding buying anything orc related, as at last count I had around 900 orcs to actually paint (I don't play the GW, I used the models for other mass battle games)

I can't decide if I want the Theoden model. I don't have this one and its a nice sculpt, but I do quite like the new one even and I have enough models to paint as it is without getting more variations on sculpts!

If this is going to all be done on one MTO, its a pretty sizeable one. Going to have to drop all other GW purchases this month to get most of this MTO.

For me, the Fell Beast is something I'd be interested in, maybe one pack each of the wargs and Rangers, but that's about it. I already have the Heroes of Helm's Deep thanks to an eBay score a couple of years ago, and I'm not worried about having the more "artsy" stuff like Gimli on the Uruk-hai or the camping Hobbits with fish-eating Gollum. Nothing against those models at all, they're very cool, just not something I need. What I pick up, if anything at all, will of course depend heavily on how much they are going to ask for it. I hard passed on the metal Balrog last year because of the exorbitant price, and sadly I imagine it'll be the same story with the Fell Beast as it's a similar size model.

Metal Fell Beast is the highlight for me as I've never got my hands on one! I picked up Heroes of Helms Deep, Gimli on dead Uruk-hai, Battering ram and Wargs from previous Made-to-Orders.

New FAQs just dropped. Seems like very little has changed except for a minor nerf to the Spider Queen.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/02/03/the-middle-earth-strategy-battle-game-the-state-of-the-game/

 Fergie0044 wrote:
New FAQs just dropped. Seems like very little has changed except for a minor nerf to the Spider Queen.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/02/03/the-middle-earth-strategy-battle-game-the-state-of-the-game/

That's not a bad thing if you ask me, shows there aren't many outliers in the game and balance is overall okay. And I guess they shy away from points changes in that document which could help some underperforming units. Orc archers come to mind that probably haven't been seen outside of scenario play since the trackers dropped something like 13 years ago

Anyone got any info when the Made to Order will happen?

 Fergie0044 wrote:
New FAQs just dropped. Seems like very little has changed except for a minor nerf to the Spider Queen.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/02/03/the-middle-earth-strategy-battle-game-the-state-of-the-game/

Shame they can't ever be bothered to revert the millstone around the neck of the Ithilien Ranger Legendary Legion.

Having to take Frodo, Sam, and Smeagol is annoying.

Ah yes. Shock horror having actual price and not just get free bonus rules.

Ah well. WAAC's got to WAAC.

tneva82 wrote:
Ah yes. Shock horror having actual price and not just get free bonus rules.

Ah well. WAAC's got to WAAC.

I love how WAAC used to mean "actively cheating and being a bad sport" and now it's just some smear scrubs throw out when anyone even vaguely complains about the balancing of the game.

tneva82 wrote:
Ah yes. Shock horror having actual price and not just get free bonus rules.

You mean like being locked into Faramir as your leader?
Or that one of the "free bonus rules"(ignoring bow limit for Rangers in your warbands led by Faramir or his named Rangers) is literally just a faction perk for some others?

Ah well. WAAC's got to WAAC.

lol, sure thing bud.

Or maybe people who like a themed list like themed listing.

Also, for the record?
Theming it out, barebones, you're looking at 595 points if you run strictly Rangers.
15 with Faramir(85pts), 12 with Madril(55), 6 each with Damrod(25), Anborn(35), and Mablung(35) for a total of 45 Rangers(8pts each).
That's all you get to utilize to take advantage of that one "free bonus rule", the ignoring bow limit for Rangers in their warbands.

Assuming you go the route of the plastics? You're looking at 2 boxes, with a minimum of 16 Spear(+1 pt/model on Rangers) armed models bumping that list up to 611 points.

Frodo, Sam, and Smeagol add 160 pts, bumping you to 771pts and three heroes that can only be run as their own warband with no warriors accompanying it or in Faramir's taking the place of 3 Rangers.

Anything taken beyond this point is subject to bow limits and requires a generic Captain of Gondor to run more warbands--which is Perfectly Fine.

I know taking the hobbits is a tax but you can see why they did it when you can pack 45 bows in to 600 points. Most other armies allow up to 50% bow limit if they have an allowance, or all the models are mounted which comes with its own disadvantages.

 Commitz wrote:
I know taking the hobbits is a tax but you can see why they did it when you can pack 45 bows in to 600 points.

It's a Legendary Legion, not a faction army list.
There's already a "tax" in that you're locked to a specific roster of units to choose from, specific heroes, and a specific leader. Literally once you hit that cap of 45 Rangers, you're not getting any more that ignore the bow limit as the five characters that give you that bonus have all done it.

Beyond that, any further warbands are led by Captains of Gondor and subject to the bow limits of the force.

Most other armies allow up to 50% bow limit if they have an allowance or all the models are mounted which comes with its own disadvantages.

Or it's a specific unit, since Mirkwood Rangers in the Halls of Thranduil army list are ignored for bow limits...
which is literally the perk that Faramir and his Ranger lieutenants grant only to the Rangers of Gondor in this list.

If they wanted to make a tax? Damrod and Madril are right there. Faramir, Damrod, and Madril have basically only been sold in a three pack as well making it a less onerous "tax" in the simple terms of model purchases that keeps theme intact.

The small trio are made a requirement for certain scenarios. That's a whole other kettle of fish as it's narrative requirements, not a generic requirement.

45 bows is more bows than you'll find in any other list in the game, and that's not even the limit. It's 50 with the characters too!
I can see why they added the restriction.
If it's a problem you could probably just ask to play them pure in friendly games.

The difference with the wood elves is that the mirkwood rangers get some good rules, but they're also only defence 3, with no spear options and they cost 14 points so you'll barely even have half as many bows (although you would get legolas, who is amazing).

The best shooting list that you can build is probably Elrond with knights and that list have less than half the bows as Rangers LL and is seen everywhere as a WAAC list that doesn't care about the enjoyment of the opponent at all. Everytime you see someone ask if Elrond + Knights is a good list you will get people responding with "It is very good but you will lose most of your friends if you play it much".

If they removed the little people tax from Rangers the entire lower point level meta will change again and you will hear the same reasoning about it as Elrond Knights. "Very good but unfun and no one will want to play against you"

 Commitz wrote:
45 bows is more bows than you'll find in any other list in the game, and that's not even the limit. It's 50 with the characters too!

What part of "Legendary Legion" did you not get?

I can see why they added the restriction.

I can't. It's stupid. It's a Legendary Legion, supposed to be themed around the Rangers of Ithilien.

If they wanted to make it mandatory? Then Battle for Osgiliath should have included Frodo, Sam, and Smeagol in the same set as Faramir, Damrod, and Madril.

If it's a problem you could probably just ask to play them pure in friendly games.

Or they can FAQ it. Nowhere had I actually seen anybody talking about it outside of weird theorycrafted nonsense.

The difference with the wood elves is that the mirkwood rangers get some good rules, but they're also only defence 3,

But they're also Courage 6 rather than 3 with Knife Fighter, Elf Cloaks(Stalk Unseen, anyone?) and Woodland Creature(the other Legendary Legion perk for the Rangers of Gondor) baked in.

with no spear options

Kind of a big "so what?" given that you can still take Palace Guard, if you so choose.

and they cost 14 points so you'll barely even have half as many bows (although you would get legolas, who is amazing).

Legolas and Tauriel both are in that list, along with the option to just take a "generic" Hero of Fortitude Mirkwood Ranger Captain if you're desperate to squeeze out the numbers.

Those "45 Rangers of Gondor" are 360 points, in and of themselves, in a Legendary Legion that grants them two perks that Mirkwood Rangers just magically get period.
Assuming a rock-bottom target point value of 600 pts to keep parity with the list I posted for the Rangers of Ithilien Legendary Legion?

305 for Legolas and 15 Mirkwood Rangers
253 for Tauriel and 12 Mirkwood Rangers

Total of 558pts
Throw in 5 pts for Legolas' Elf Cloak, 10pts for Orcrist, 5 pts for an Elf Bow on Tauriel and you're up to 578.

That 578 gets you 27 Mirkwood Rangers plus Legolas and Tauriel, while still leaving the rest of the Halls of Thranduil faction's army list open to you.

Also, Elf Bows are S3 rather than 2.

You get up to 20 more models and bows with Rangers LL over spamming Mirkwood Rangers at 600 and like 17 more models at 500. That is a huge number of extra bodies. The ranger heroes also have bows and some extra abilities that help out being a shooty list (9 might, free might on shots for one of them, maelstrom protection, remove stalkunseen/elven cloaks aura) so they aren't outclassed by Legolas and Tauriel.

Most common mount defense is 4 and most common warrior defense is 6 so S3 over S2 doesn't matter much in quite a lot of matchups and even in those that have a lot of d3 and d5 having 60% more bows beat having +1S unless they only have odd defense values in the list. Most have some even defense.

Those Rangers also have more defense than Mirkwood Rangers and you need to kill a huge amount of rangers to break that list compared to the elves. Also 50% more might with Faramir and his gang.

Quite a few lists will just die in melee to the rangers when they reach them because they will be so outnumbered while the elves will struggle in 1vs1 with d3 and no possibility for supports while the opponent most likely will have it. You only get to use knife fighter when you have priority and get a favorable charge and with the low amount of might in elf lists that isn't easy.

Legendary Legions shouldn't be overpowered or boring to play against.

 blood reaper wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Ah yes. Shock horror having actual price and not just get free bonus rules.

Ah well. WAAC's got to WAAC.

I love how WAAC used to mean "actively cheating and being a bad sport" and now it's just some smear scrubs throw out when anyone even vaguely complains about the balancing of the game.

Given Kan's later posts in here, are you still going to defend him/attack tneva?

 Dysartes wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Ah yes. Shock horror having actual price and not just get free bonus rules.

Ah well. WAAC's got to WAAC.

I love how WAAC used to mean "actively cheating and being a bad sport" and now it's just some smear scrubs throw out when anyone even vaguely complains about the balancing of the game.

Given Kan's later posts in here, are you still going to defend him/attack tneva?

Yes, because he's not advocating actively cheating or being a bad sport.

Edit: My post was saying that it was wrong to apply the 'WAAC' label to anyone who is competitive or likes to minmax. There's nothing wrong with this (unless you have an insane scrub mentality). WAAC used to mean 'Person who actively cheats or uses underhanded means to win games'. Now because of the insane scrub-mentality culture all over the wargaming community, it means "bringing a strong list", or "actually trying to win".

 Dysartes wrote:

Given Kan's later posts in here, are you still going to defend him/attack tneva?

I showed the numbers, Dysartes, to highlight that there's an upper limit to how the Legendary Legion functions.

In exchange for losing Allies, losing a good chunk of the army list, and losing their army bonus they gain a specialized bonus with caveats.

In this case? Rangers in warbands led by Faramir(who, again, is a mandatory requirement for the LL and mandatory army leader), Anborn, Damrod, Madril, and Mablung do not count towards your bow limit. That caps you out at 595 pts without throwing Spears on some of the Rangers or Faramir on a horse or adding the hobbits.

A Battle level game starts at 600 points. You start just shy of a larger scale game, assuming you pack everyone to the gills with Ranger followers in the list. The high end bracket GW gives for that tier is 1000 points.

Why do I phrase it like this?
Because it's daft that a trio of heroes that are only included to let you if you so choose portray scenes from the film have become mandatory over some ridiculously hyperbolic doomsday scenario that won't likely ever happen in Matched Play.

They're not untargetable deathmachines. They're humans who get to have a bonus that some others get simply for being a faction(Halls of Thranduil and the Mirkwood Rangers) or a specific general(Elrond and Rivendell Knights) in exchange for completely losing their main army bonus, their ability to have allies, and being locked into five specific characters as the 'tax' to make use of said bonus.

Either the trio should be free and mandatory or they shouldn't be mandatory. It's that simple.