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I think changing the stat line is a pretty major change tbh - it changes the rules for every model in the game!

But I am glad if the other mechanics don't change much, because the game is just really solid. I am happy that special strikes are gone because I never really liked them, but I'm probably not going to play the new edition so what I like is probably irrelevant. But on the off chance I join a community playing the new rules, I'm glad they're going in that direction.

The "all armies are legendary legions" rumour I heard is more concerning to me, if it means what I think it means.

 .Mikes. wrote:

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:

 .Mikes. wrote:
Tonnes of leaks from the box around the internet right now, including photos of the rule book.

Looks fairly light on rules changes, to the point where if it wasn't for piggy backing the new film release for marketing I'd wonder why this wouldn't be just a FAQ.

My only quibble with what we know now is why the split Int and Courage states are on a 'plus' roll, like for shooting, but with two dice and the caveat they can't drop below 3, The aim was to simplify but it just adds an extra layer. That's a minor point though.

Care to point us towards a few?

Google.com.au

Sorry, Wasn't being rude, just on my phone and heading out the door when I posed that, and they are all over the place by now.

I'm kinda intrigued by the Leader X / Elite rules. Could make for some more themey lists, but to be honest the open way of making lists in the current edition was ne thing I really liked about it.

Anyhoo, I'm feeling better about the new edition than I was before.

Couple of pages from the starter booklet (hence no points values) for those who haven't seen them or don't want to watch insufferable youtube "people".

Initial thoughts (based off nothing else other then whats here)
-Finally, Rohan get spear support! And done in a way that is sensible.
-Flaming Brand rule is cool. A nice bonus to help counter cavalry heavy armies. How effective it ends up being remains to be seen.
-On the face of it, I'm not against the new Elite unit type. A tidy way of curtailing units like Royal Guard that just were just too good not to take en-masse. Again though, how restrictive/useful it ends up being remains to be seen.
-Had a small groan when I saw the "Sv" on the profile as I thought they'd added armour saves to the game (which it totally doesn't need) but then realised they'd just split Fight and Shoot up.
-Looks like they've flipped out Courage works. I'm guessing just roll 2d6 and hit the listed value rather then the current "2d6 + Courage must = 10" method. Which with a 4+ would actually make Haleth insanely brave...


EDIT - Click to embiggen the pictures, they're MUCH clearer then what they seem here.

Hm, looks pretty near identical to how they're set out currently. The hell is a swarm though? Crebain and bats and the like?

A Swarm of hobbits..... sounds about right.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Snrub wrote:
Royal Guard

I still have those royal guard for you, btw. I'm guessing you're not going to want more now....

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
The hell is a swarm though? Crebain and bats and the like?

That'd be a safe bet. Could probably throw the Broodlings the Spider Queen spawn in there as well. Maybe even Shades?

 .Mikes. wrote:
A Swarm of hobbits..... sounds about right.

Maybe FW are working on models for the Hobbit children that chase Gandalf begging for fireworks.

I still have those royal guard for you, btw. I'm guessing you're not going to want more now....

Time will tell. I'm guessing Theoden, Theodred, Eomer and possibly Hama will all get the Leader rule. That means at least ~30 of them is still a viable list.

Looking at the equipment I guess my Orcs with spears and shields or bows and spears are out now...

Yep, I expect they're going to follow the trend of their other games and go with "no model, no rules, box loadouts only", which is so sad as conversions/kitbashes are part of what made GW games great.

Not necessarily. These could just be starter box rules to get playing immediately and more advanced rules for equipment show up in the core book.

The game still looks fine, but I am not a huge fan of giving special rules to every unit. What I see there seems to suggest that trend continues. Ah well.

One thing I didn't clock earlier, that I just saw someone else comment on is that the Dunlendings have "Light Shield" rather then just "Shield" like the Rohirrim have. I wonder if they're going the route of armour/heavy armour, where light shields give +1 D, and regular shields give +2.
Hooray we're back up to army wide Defence 8 for Dwarfs.

Would make sense. If they bring back something like the Black Guard, a Tower Shield is going to offer massive defensive over a little wooden thing.

 Snrub wrote:
One thing I didn't clock earlier, that I just saw someone else comment on is that the Dunlendings have "Light Shield" rather then just "Shield" like the Rohirrim have. I wonder if they're going the route of armour/heavy armour, where light shields give +1 D, and regular shields give +2.
Hooray we're back up to army wide Defence 8 for Dwarfs.

Ha, so swords, axes, maces, flails become one thing again, but instead we get three kinds of shields now.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Would make sense. If they bring back something like the Black Guard, a Tower Shield is going to offer massive defensive over a little wooden thing.

Which, if that's the route they're taking, I'm largely ok with. It could even open up some interesting avenues for things like "heavy" shields which prevent you getting pushed back in combat or something or maybe grant the shieldwall rule. Things like the vault wardens, black guard and even arbalester would all benefit from something like that.

Also, not related to shields at all, but something that just popped into my head, I hope they bring back the Volley Fire! rule from the older editions.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Ha, so swords, axes, maces, flails become one thing again, but instead we get three kinds of shields now.

Pendulum's gotta swing!

 Snrub wrote:
One thing I didn't clock earlier, that I just saw someone else comment on is that the Dunlendings have "Light Shield" rather then just "Shield" like the Rohirrim have. I wonder if they're going the route of armour/heavy armour, where light shields give +1 D, and regular shields give +2.
Hooray we're back up to army wide Defence 8 for Dwarfs.

I was thinking more along the lines of light shields allowing for use of the "Shielding" rule but not giving a defence bonus, as that might make sense for other light shields, like the Corsairs' bucklers. Was that ever a rule? Might be getting it mixed up with some intensive house rules I've played over the years.

Rohan spear rule also seems similar of something that used to exist in some form somewhere. I like it (and it makes sense given the size of their spears), though a bit finicky to keep track of like many such rules.

A clear special rule and unit type system with keywords is fine, but I think more elegant solutions are possible for some things. For instance, while I recall earlier discussions over what is or isn't a named character (a/the Balrog or Spider Queen), I think that this can be solved with a little symbol (X-Wing used to list unique pilots and upgrades with a "·" after the name - simple, clear, unobtrusive). Don't think it warrants more than that since it is pretty much only relevant for army building, and you can then have less text focussing only on relevant information, which will consequently be easier to find.

Wargear limitations look worrying and very much in line with what we've seen from the profile/range cull (removing options for which miniatures have not been produced), and aspects in other games systems. It would feel very silly if, say, Morannon Orcs could wield spears and shields simultaneously while Mordor Orcs could not, just because the models happen to be that way. It would also be very reductive in a game that since its inception has heavily featured conversions owing to the often single-piece models, sometimes lacking obvious weapon combinations (such as Mordor Orcs with spears and shields, or conversely High Elves with only spears or only shields). I hope it won't be that way for profiles that have existed and been allowed to have those weapon combinations for 20 years, but...

My way of dealing with the rohan spear issue is just letting them pay for both types of spears and use them both.

Can't wait to see the new Rohan Cavalry and hope the Dunlendings get some Cavalry too!

With those two Characters, do you whink we will see new Common "Orcs of Middle Earth"?

RazorEdge wrote:
Can't wait to see the new Rohan Cavalry and hope the Dunlendings get some Cavalry too!

With those two Characters, do you whink we will see new Common "Orcs of Middle Earth"?

To me the article sounded more like this was one small scene in the movie. Like, that girl from the trailer being lost in the mountains and then she meets these three. My guess is they'll stay as their own team like the three trolls.

RazorEdge wrote:
Can't wait to see the new Rohan Cavalry and hope the Dunlendings get some Cavalry too!

With those two Characters, do you whink we will see new Common "Orcs of Middle Earth"?

Depends entirely on how successful this launch is. The hope is that it's popular enough to trigger a redo of all the old plastics.

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
Rohan spear rule also seems similar of something that used to exist in some form somewhere. I like it (and it makes sense given the size of their spears), though a bit finicky to keep track of like many such rules.

The rule exists in a couple of Legendary Legions in the current rules; specifically the Defenders of Helm's Deep and I think the other one is Theodred's Guard.

About wargear options: they only mentioned characteristics talking about that. They cannot remove options for, let's say, high elves troops for examples. It would be a nonsense.

Magical Powers.

Couple of new ones in there, one or two have the wording tweaked. Looks like Channellings gone too.

Cool, nothing too out of the ordinary there. I am intrigued by this new intelligence stat.

Johanxp wrote:
About wargear options: they only mentioned characteristics talking about that. They cannot remove options for, let's say, high elves troops for examples. It would be a nonsense.

I hope you're right, but I wouldn't want to bet on it...


Surprised Channelling is gone - unless it just provides a straight buff to casting or something instead now? Bit of a big debuff to things like Transfix, etc though. Also minor point that there no longer is Immobilise/Transfix, so either they are listing them separately or now have the same name for Good and Evil...?

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
Rohan spear rule also seems similar of something that used to exist in some form somewhere. I like it (and it makes sense given the size of their spears), though a bit finicky to keep track of like many such rules.

The rule exists in a couple of Legendary Legions in the current rules; specifically the Defenders of Helm's Deep and I think the other one is Theodred's Guard.

Ah, I never got War in Rohan (or played against people using it), but might have assimilated that info from some online discussions at some point then, cheers.

And here we go:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/s5kgfcgs/sunday-preview-the-war-of-the-rohirrimtm-is-upon-us/

...do people think they've made "smart changes" to MESBG?

Feels odd that they're doing this to ride on the coat tails of the film, but the main character of the film is nowhere in sight.

Wasn't following the Fellowship and Journey games when they came out, over two decades ago( well, Fellowship anyway ), but I'm assuming they had Frodo and Bilbo at launch?

There was a seperate Fellowship box, but the initial starter box was moria goblins vs high elves and numenoreans

Prices in USD apparently.