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 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
There was a seperate Fellowship box, but the initial starter box was moria goblins vs high elves and numenoreans

Oh, I see.

Ok so, it looks like the core box will be about £125, the foot characters will be 18, the armies books are surprisingly unchanged in price, hill trolls are the same as the werewolves are 48 and bhurdhur seems like he's 28. not ball all around.

Ok, so comparing the US site to the AUS site, Battle of Edoras should come out at about the same price Battle of Osgiliath currently is ($360). It's not as good as value as the Pelennor Fields or Osgiliath boxes I think, given that there's no Cavalry/Monsters on either side like Pelennor and there's less terrain then Osgiliath (or at least, less useful terrain). The rulebook is also significantly less chunky (50 pages less!) then the updated Osgiliath book.
That being said, I have no doubt it'll still be a cracking deal compared to buying the sets individually, which will certainly skyrocket in price.

 .Mikes. wrote:
Prices in USD apparently.

Spoiler:

Here's what my FLGS posted to Facebook:

Those prices actually seem fairly reasonable, for GW anyway. You do of course pay the FW tax on the resin heroes and units but...eh. Still, I'm gonna need almost 400 bucks to get the new starter and get the current versions of the Armies books, which is kind of steep all at once. I might have to spread the purchases out.

Hmmm, I know it's just me being disconnected from modern GW but those prices don't look reasonable to me at all.

48 infantry, a couple of houses and fences and some heroes for a full starter is pretty stingy in my opinion. Especially compared to the previous ME SBG starters which were a good deal overall. I only didn't pick them up because I already own a bunch of the plastics that were in there.

 ZergSmasher wrote:
Those prices actually seem fairly reasonable, for GW anyway. You do of course pay the FW tax on the resin heroes and units but...eh.

Just to make sure we're seeing things in context here, how does $30 compare to a plastic character release these days?

Most tend to bounce around the £24-£26 range these days. So it's still FW expensive. More surprised that they're not coming in double packs, as they usually go for £24 each.


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 Da Boss wrote:
Hmmm, I know it's just me being disconnected from modern GW but those prices don't look reasonable to me at all.

48 infantry, a couple of houses and fences and some heroes for a full starter is pretty stingy in my opinion. Especially compared to the previous ME SBG starters which were a good deal overall. I only didn't pick them up because I already own a bunch of the plastics that were in there.

I put it in the context of all brand new sculpts (apart from the scenery) vs one or two new models and an ass load of 20 year old kits.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Most tend to bounce around the £24-£26 range these days. So it's still FW expensive. More surprised that they're not coming in double packs, as they usually go for £24 each.

And on a straight currency conversion - though I'll wait for a GBP price list to confirm - $30 equates to £24, so...

I've seen confirmation from some third party sellers; £140 for the new starter set, although they offer it for £112. Not too bad.

Other base costs have the books at £40-34 and new plastics at £31.50. No FW prices though.

Yeah, saw someone quote the Australian price as $370, which given the Osgiliath box was $360, is honestly a paltry price increase compared to what new edition box sets normally get slapped with. Although still a heinous price overall.

After the Pelennor box + my pre-existing collection, I really don't need more Rohan warriors. But the hero's will make for nice generic captains and I'm really impressed by the Wildmen sculpts, so I want some of them. At 20% off, the box is still worth getting. But it's a steep price for a box of lesser content quantity then previous editions.

Big ol' information dump in this one:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/2ifuwrwc/middle-earthtm-strategy-battle-game-key-changes-in-the-new-edition/

Like the reworking of fight values, although Aragorn seems to have a small essay of stuff for his profile. Int stat sounds like an interesting addition and the priority role changes sounds like quite a big deal. I like it though.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
Big ol' information dump in this one:

Like the reworking of fight values, although Aragorn seems to have a small essay of stuff for his profile. Int stat sounds like an interesting addition and the priority role changes sounds like quite a big deal. I like it though.

I like the changes too, but I don't like that I bought all the cards with the previous profiles!

Ugh, the wargear rules are indeed what they seemed to be.
"This has been done to ensure all models accurately represent the wargear they may carry, and so that there is no confusion mid-game."
WYSIWYG has been quite consistently applied to any events I've attended across however many editions of the game now. This change provides no clarity or benefit that wasn't there before, but just ensures any conversions deviating from the exact wargear combinations GW sells models for are no longer viable. For some armies, this could be massive. Almost all of my Mordor Orcs with spears also have shields (mainly from the convenient Warg Rider box), with just a handful missing them in case I needed to drop a few points from a list. If they are no longer allowed to have both, this creates, rather than prevents, confusion: unless I rip them all off, either they can only count as having spears (making the shields confusing) or just as having shields (making the spears confusing). Ugh.

Priority roll change could be interesting and I recall considering that change before, but not sure. I kinda liked how before it was sometimes good and sometimes bad to "win" the roll-off; now making a 50-50 roll consistently beneficial for the winner might just be worse?

Wording still seems bloated, whatever they claim. Having to say "This is a Unique piece of Wargear" for a named item listed under Wargear surely could have been communicated in fewer words. Also, using phrasing like "natural 6", and then elsewhere "on a 6 [may use Might to improve this roll]" can be fixed by just consistently using natural for unmodifiable rolls, while other rolls can then be modified, no need to list that for every individual rule (of which there might be many, if even more pieces of jewellery and named livestock get a paragraph of special rules now...).

In more positive news, the evil Rohirrim in white, black and red look nice.

Yeah, I could see me stealing the changed initiative rule and continue with the old edition. My archer orcs won't give you their spears without a fight.
In the end it probably depends on a) will there be german translations, b) will the reworked profiles do stuff I really like and c) will the removal of wargear stay sensible. Making all orc heroes lose their option for a shield for example... might turn this into the captain edition .

I'm not sure I like the priority rule change. I liked that you didn't know who was going to have it next, now it's about 50-50 you'll get to choose.

Oh i forgot to add, base size on the profile. Excellent addition.

I have no strong feelings except wonder why there was a new rulebook a year ago.

I'm neutral on the Intelligence stat, seems fine to me but also probably not really needed.

Weapon option rules I dislike.

Priority rules I also dislike, I prefer how it works now.

Redistributing Fight Values is probably a good idea if you want the game to work between the Hobbit and the LOTR. I think the mistake was the creep in Hobbit stat lines, but that damage is already done and it does need to be addressed.

But I really dislike how many special rules I see. Seems like it's just the "modern" design paradigm but I think it's pretty bad design personally, I think the stat line is fine for showing differences between units without having to resort to special rules.

Yeah not at all liking the new weapon option rules. Totally unnecessary set of restrictions. I think this is something that will get house ruled a lot as it's easy enough to ignore without breaking any other element of the rules. Also going to nullify a lot of peoples conversions and modifications.

-Separation of fight and shoot is going to annoy me purely because my brain will never be able to divorce Sv from Armour Save. Also not sure why it was a required change as I don't see how it makes it more distinct. It's not like it was confusing before.
-Priority changes seem... fine. I guess? Not sure it was needed, but ok.
-Ditto for Courage.
-Intelligence also seems fine. Like, I think I see what their aim with it is but whether or not it is an actually useful addition to rules, only time and experience will tell.
-I like the idea Dominant (x). But I can foresee it easily becoming overwhelming if they just start dolling it out to everything that isn't a basic man-sized warrior, which I hope doesn't happen but won't be shocked if it does.
-Again not sure we needed scenarios going up to 20VP, but I'd not be sorry to see more varied ways of getting VP. Having the same (objective), (leader), (broken) scoring methods for each scenario did get a bit stale.

Looking at Aragorns profile. Why is he all of a sudden Resistant to Magic? I wonder what the logic behind that is.

 Coenus Scaldingus wrote:
In more positive news, the evil Rohirrim in white, black and red look nice.

They look so good! Great colour combination.

Probably a nod to his resistance to the ring.

Ok, I'll pay that.

from a read of that it sounds like this started with "we need a new edition to boost sales and attract interest"

note, this is not specifically a bad thing, its already quite a good set of rules, many of these changes are quite minor but you can see the dead hand of "marketing" pushing something that requires a "reset"

so you have fight value now as two stats not one, yeah whatever. splitting courage into two actually makes a lot of sense, e.g. why was someone brave also very good at spotting someone hidden? that was more a simplification too far in the base game (40k suffered when the Ld, Wp, Cl & Int states became "Ld" in the same way). and if all the profiles are being redone anyway this makes sense

as does re-aligning fight values on a broader range

the priority thing I dislike, previously fate could really screw you over so you had to plan for it, now its "easier" in a way it didn't need to be

marketing again with the "no model, no rules!" thing is carp, pure fish based carp

"Everyone gets a special rule!".. GW need to find the induhvidual behind this and take them out behind the chemical sheds and walk back alone

also totally agree stat creep to sell the hobbit stuff caused a chunk of the "problem" they are now trying to fix

the real issue for LotR is that its actually, from the off, been a very solid set of rules, e.g. its the only set GW does that handles terrain in a sensible way. and its quite hard to then keep selling stuff

my problem is that as with Necromunda I have remarkably little desire to purchase expansions that will be invalidated in a reasonably short time frame the next time GW decide to go over all this and give Malibu Stacy a new hat

I love the game, can't see buying the new edition though, and a fair few locally have noted the same. end result is it will gradually die out

I really don't understand this invalidation nonsense when there's been a six year gap between this and the previous ed.

If "every profile has been touched" means everything gets unnecessary bloat like Aragorn's ring and horse then this is going to be a massive pain in the arse to play unless it's your only system.

Billicus wrote:
If "every profile has been touched" means everything gets unnecessary bloat like Aragorn's ring and horse then this is going to be a massive pain in the arse to play unless it's your only system.

Please don't talk about Aragorn's ring being bloated - it's a sensitive subject.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
I really don't understand this invalidation nonsense when there's been a six year gap between this and the previous ed.

We haven't all been around for 20 years to get our money's worth. There's been a surge of new players a year ago with the big box and battleforces, and from the new printing of the core book those players rightly assumed they were safe to drop money on the force books and expansions too.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
I really don't understand this invalidation nonsense when there's been a six year gap between this and the previous ed.

1 year, the last Edition was 1 year ago.
Just because it didn't saw major changes but simply incorporated FAQ/Erratas/Updates (like a new Edition of a book should be) doesn't change it

So everyone who bought into the game last year and by accident one of the removed model lines are now rightfully a little bit salty

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
I really don't understand this invalidation nonsense when there's been a six year gap between this and the previous ed.

its more given how many campaign books etc there are for this, replacing them for no real reason is a needless expense - this could have been a pdf you can download to "patch" each books profiles - as well as updated copies on the shelves

plus as others have noted the most recent rulebooks were not six years ago but last year (though done sensibly without invalidating all the source books and expansions)

not to mention any stat cards people have need redoing, the semi-pointless rules bloat of more special rules for individual profiles added at the same time the special strikes were removed "to reduce bloat" etc

are some of the ideas here good? yes, some of them will seriously improve the game
does it feel like a money grab moving to the 40k/AoS model of invalidating everything on a regular basis? yes, yes it does, and it also as a result lowers confidence in the "value" of expansions etc

personally didn't even have it all, just the book, the "armies of" books, Battle companies and a pair of the source expansions.

I won't be rushing out to replace them all, or indeed any of them. changed profiles will be available from "other sources" and I would not be in the least surprised to find "unofficial" profiles in the new format for the stuff GW would prefer you to forget you bought

Orks?