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What companies are actually doing this?
As far as I know it isn't Corvus Belli, when I stopped looking at their stuff it wasn't Privateer, and I don't think FFG or Knight do it.


All that said, given the entitled attitude of gamers these days when it comes to anything GW related? Nope. It ain't happening. You lot sunk it yourselves, whining incessantly about how they handled stuff with AoS.

Comic book companies have been printing digital codes for their books inside for years.

Movies have had digital codes included in the blu ray for years.

Why can’t the greedy plastic army men company include a digital copy with their books too? They invalidate the rules in the book within a few weeks of release anyways, the least they could do is give us a digital copy that can be updated to reflect the changes they make.

 Kanluwen wrote:
What companies are actually doing this?

As far as I know it isn't Corvus Belli, when I stopped looking at their stuff it wasn't Privateer, and I don't think FFG or Knight do it.
So what are these mythical companies that are doing such with miniatures games?

Wrong question. It doesn't matter if anyone is doing anything with miniature war games. The question is why isn't it being done when the tech exists to do it and people are doing it with other product already.

When I by a game physically that comes with some additional virtual content I get a one time use code for the shop in the package or on the receipt.. When I purchased the new new Alien RPG it came with PDFs of the books and I got emailed purchase links to a website to "purchase" and download them. I got the same for Forbidden Lands expansion.

A codex SHOULD be a one time purchase. And if GW is insisting on changing them constantly then I should have access to a digital version that is updated. The purchase of the book has MANY avenues of providing me with a code that does not cost money beyond the creation of the digital system that accommodates it.

A TTRPG book isn't functionally different from a codex. If they can do it so can "Miniature War Games". And there isn't really a reason not to.

 Lance845 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
What companies are actually doing this?

As far as I know it isn't Corvus Belli, when I stopped looking at their stuff it wasn't Privateer, and I don't think FFG or Knight do it.
So what are these mythical companies that are doing such with miniatures games?

Wrong question. It doesn't matter if anyone is doing anything with miniature war games. The question is why isn't it being done when the tech exists to do it and people are doing it with other product already.

When you and others have implied that it's being done in miniature wargames, yeah the question is exactly that. I figured there must be some company out there doing it, but I wouldn't be shocked if it isn't being done or it's only being done with Kickstarters.

It's also interesting that the only company I know of that has done "digital only" items, which was what Corvus Belli did with the Dire Foes setup...it was NOT well received at all. Because CB's system was trash despite them having invested heavily into doing it for the missions and fluff. Download codes didn't work for a good chunk of people, despite them being brand new boxes.

When I buy a game physically that comes with some additional virtual content I get a one time use code for the shop in the package or on the receipt.. When I purchased the new new Alien RPG it came with PDFs of the books and I got emailed purchase links to a website to "purchase" and download them. I got the same for Forbidden Lands expansion.

Were these Kickstarters or actual products?

A codex SHOULD be a one time purchase. And if GW is insisting and changing them constantly then I should have access to a digital version that is updated.

How many codices are "changed constantly"? Do you really consider FAQs to be so onerous to your experience that you feel you are owed a digital version?

The purchase of the book has MANY avenues of providing me with a code that does not cost money beyond the creation of the digital system that accommodates it.

A TTRPG book isn't functionally different from a codex. If they can do it so can "Miniature War Games". And there isn't really a reason not to.

It's always funny seeing these "it will cost them nothing!"...when yeah, it would.
They need to create a digital system, they need to maintain it, they need staff that can help troubleshoot problems with it, etc. Alternatively they have to outsource it to a company that can do all of that.

 zend wrote:
They invalidate the rules in the book within a few weeks of release anyways, the least they could do is give us a digital copy that can be updated to reflect the changes they make.

You have a strange definition for "invalidate" if clarifying or rewording a rule "invalidates" it.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
What companies are actually doing this?

As far as I know it isn't Corvus Belli, when I stopped looking at their stuff it wasn't Privateer, and I don't think FFG or Knight do it.
So what are these mythical companies that are doing such with miniatures games?

Wrong question. It doesn't matter if anyone is doing anything with miniature war games. The question is why isn't it being done when the tech exists to do it and people are doing it with other product already.

When you and others have implied that it's being done in miniature wargames, yeah the question is exactly that. I figured there must be some company out there doing it, but I wouldn't be shocked if it isn't being done or it's only being done with Kickstarters.

Incorrect. There is no functional difference between a TTRPG book and a codex, or a comic, or a movie. Just because a niche genre of game has not done it doesn't mean jack gak.

When I buy a game physically that comes with some additional virtual content I get a one time use code for the shop in the package or on the receipt.. When I purchased the new new Alien RPG it came with PDFs of the books and I got emailed purchase links to a website to "purchase" and download them. I got the same for Forbidden Lands expansion.

Were these Kickstarters or actual products?

Forbidden Lands, a Kickstarter. Alien, actual product. Movies, actual product. Comics, actual product. Video games, actual product.

A codex SHOULD be a one time purchase. And if GW is insisting and changing them constantly then I should have access to a digital version that is updated.

How many codices are "changed constantly"? Do you really consider FAQs to be so onerous to your experience that you feel you are owed a digital version?

Every book released by GW has had some changes 2 times within 12 months of the release of their book and at least 1 more time every 12 months since. First in the FAQ errata where they constantly make mistakes large and small and once a year in point values in CA. Yes. That is so onerous that people should get digital versions.

The purchase of the book has MANY avenues of providing me with a code that does not cost money beyond the creation of the digital system that accommodates it.

A TTRPG book isn't functionally different from a codex. If they can do it so can "Miniature War Games". And there isn't really a reason not to.

It's always funny seeing these "it will cost them nothing!"...when yeah, it would.
They need to create a digital system, they need to maintain it, they need staff that can help troubleshoot problems with it, etc. Alternatively they have to outsource it to a company that can do all of that.

They have staff to do that already. They run their virtual store. The only thing that webstaff has to do is create a system that produces randomized codes and add them to the printing of the books. It's crazy easy to write the code to produce a 16 digit alpha numeric code. Any "Team" of coders could produce stable code that does that within a couple weeks to a month while maintaining their normal duties. And if they don't want to there are lots of companies that produce packages of virtual store features that I am sure GW could purchase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The printers that make their books can print those labels on a dymo printer for 0.025 per label american. (9.00 a roll 350 labels per roll - That is the price you and I would pay btw. Not a corporate price.) and put the sticker on the inside of the cover before shrink wrapping.

https://www.uline.com/Product/Detail/S-8504/Dymo-Label-Printers-and-Labels/Uline-Mini-Printer-Labels-White-Paper-1-1-8-x-3-1-2?pricode=WB0307&gadtype=pla&id=S-8504&gclid=Cj0KCQiAmZDxBRDIARIsABnkbYSU7xdh8vWb_Ka2OjBBdN-KsdwHWYAb5hdmIIlJmG4wttXya1WbY0gaAp2FEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

What if they made reverse overeatch to make melee more enticing?

If a unit falls back from combat, each model gets to make close combat attacks hitting on 6's? (Close com

 Huoshini wrote:
What if they made reverse overeatch to make melee more enticing?

If a unit falls back from combat, each model gets to make attacks hitting on 6's?

Overwatch sucks. A chance to hit on a 6 + wounds + saves is mostly a futile exercise in rolling dice to no effect. It's not enough to stop people from charging and it won't be enough to stop people from falling back because it's mostly just not a risk at all. The whole system of overwatch needs to change.

 Lance845 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

It's always funny seeing these "it will cost them nothing!"...when yeah, it would.
They need to create a digital system, they need to maintain it, they need staff that can help troubleshoot problems with it, etc. Alternatively they have to outsource it to a company that can do all of that.

They have staff to do that already. They run their virtual store. The only thing that webstaff has to do is create a system that produces randomized codes and add them to the printing of the books. It's crazy easy to write the code to produce a 16 digit alpha numeric code. Any "Team" of coders could produce stable code that does that within a couple weeks to a month while maintaining their normal duties. And if they don't want to there are lots of companies that produce packages of virtual store features that I am sure GW could purchase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The printers that make their books can print those labels on a dymo printer for 0.025 per label american. (9.00 a roll 350 labels per roll - That is the price you and I would pay btw. Not a corporate price.) and put the sticker on the inside of the cover before shrink wrapping.

 solkan wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

It's always funny seeing these "it will cost them nothing!"...when yeah, it would.
They need to create a digital system, they need to maintain it, they need staff that can help troubleshoot problems with it, etc. Alternatively they have to outsource it to a company that can do all of that.

They have staff to do that already. They run their virtual store. The only thing that webstaff has to do is create a system that produces randomized codes and add them to the printing of the books. It's crazy easy to write the code to produce a 16 digit alpha numeric code. Any "Team" of coders could produce stable code that does that within a couple weeks to a month while maintaining their normal duties. And if they don't want to there are lots of companies that produce packages of virtual store features that I am sure GW could purchase.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
The printers that make their books can print those labels on a dymo printer for 0.025 per label american. (9.00 a roll 350 labels per roll - That is the price you and I would pay btw. Not a corporate price.) and put the sticker on the inside of the cover before shrink wrapping.

You're looking at the wrong cost. That's the cost to put a label with a magic number printed on it in a book.

Print that book, and then try to use the code from that book three years from now. Or print that book, have someone buy the book, and then give the book to someone else and then the second person tries to use the code.

It's like finding an old copy of a game witha license code in the box. Is the license verification system for that game still going to exist?

How long do those codes in the book need to be valid for? How do you deal with second hand books?
And then there's the occasional disaster scenario like a print run getting the wrong codes?

Making those codes work costs more than printing them and putting them in the books.

Thats why it's not a verification code that has to log into some server every time you want to play to verify it. It's a purchase code for a webstore. And they only need to be valid for as long as the product is in the virtual store. A simple line saying "Code only usable once. Only valid while product is available" say you don't have to do gak.

Nobody is doubting that there ARE costs. What is being said is that the cost is 99% 1 time up front building the system (which other industries and companies have done already) and the rest is less than the massive profit margin GW is already putting on their products.

I have made this equation before. A good quality TTRPG book has double the pages of a codex with all of them being actual content with higher quality binding, covers, and paper for the same price GW charges you for your codex. Their core book is more expensive for roughly the same page count and less content while having the same quality drops. GW can afford to print you a code for the digital version.

Didn’t play or buy 6,7 or 8th edition. I’d be interested in buying into 9ths rulebook as 8th looks very interesting, having return to looking at GW stuff. I’m not buying an 8th rulebook this far into an edition though, as it’ll have a short life span.

Roll on 9th. As quick as possible!

SamusDrake wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I've said ti before but one thing they could do is include a free digital copy with every codex. other gaming companies do it already and it's great. the one problem is they'd likely only be able to do this for direct orders so people buying a codex through their FLGS might have some issues

That be welcome, indeed!

Totally agree. Although I love thumbing through rulebooks, reading fluff and admiring the art, there are times when you want to be able to access the rules without having to lug around multiple books.I am, however, loathe to purchase another copy of the rules (especially when it is almost the same price as a physical copy) that I already own

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I've said ti before but one thing they could do is include a free digital copy with every codex. other gaming companies do it already and it's great. the one problem is they'd likely only be able to do this for direct orders so people buying a codex through their FLGS might have some issues

Yeah, no. That's another thing they'd have to maintain.

Yeah, that's sounds hard. It's easier to just put in the effort once in 2-3 years and resell it at full price instead.

 warboss wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I've said ti before but one thing they could do is include a free digital copy with every codex. other gaming companies do it already and it's great. the one problem is they'd likely only be able to do this for direct orders so people buying a codex through their FLGS might have some issues

Yeah, no. That's another thing they'd have to maintain.

Yeah, that's sounds hard. It's easier to just put in the effort once in 2-3 years and resell it at full price instead.

If you want to argue that they should lower prices on books? Cool, I'm down for that.
If you want to argue that maybe they should attempt some kind of scheme for people to trade in books? Again, down for that.

But let's not pretend that there's nothing that goes into books or that some kind of "free digital copy with every codex!" scheme is something genius or reasonably feasible.

My vision was more like a WD subscription, for $10 a month you can look at any codex or rulebook online, or access an Army Builder tool with rules baked in.

Obvious possible problems with people sharing usernames (cap the number of devices?) but that's true for any online service.

 Kanluwen wrote:
But let's not pretend that there's nothing that goes into books or that some kind of "free digital copy with every codex!" scheme is something genius or reasonably feasible.

As has been pointed out before, such a scheme exists in the TTRPG market - I know, because I've ended up with PDFs of RPG books I've bought from my LGS through it.

The main example I'm familiar with is called Bits and Mortar - you've got both large and small companies in there, proving that giving a digital copy of a book when the physical is bought in a store is feasible for a variety of companies.

Seriously, Kan - why do you think this is something which wouldn't be feasible for GW to do, if they were feeling consumer-friendly?

Honestly? Because while it might be consumer friendly, I don't think the upkeep would be worth it in the long run for a gimmick.

Remember the good old days, when it took 4-5 years to get a new codex because GW didn't update them? Back then you had to wait for a new edition to the rules and hope your army book was updated towards the middle because of rules creep. So now GW does FAQ's and updates within weeks of releasing a codex and balances the points once a year and still everyone gives them crap. Can't satisfy everyone I guess.

BTW, we're now up to 4 pages of wishlisting and speculation without a single link to a credible rumor or news about a new edition. Could a mod at least move this to the 40k discussion forum so it isn't clogging up N&R?

Meanwhile, it takes 5 minutes to find other, less reputable sources of rules. GW faces the same issue that gaming and music industry faced, that being why pay if it's more convenient to not pay? They resolved it by making paying for their products extremely convenient. GW instead is stuck with the most user un-friendly model imaginable, where you need to buy the main book, the army book, the supplements they release in the meantime and the annual patch-supplement. Oh, and errata pdfs, to ensure maximum confusion.

Cronch wrote:
Meanwhile, it takes 5 minutes to find other, less reputable sources of rules. GW faces the same issue that gaming and music industry faced, that being why pay if it's more convenient to not pay? They resolved it by making paying for their products extremely convenient. GW instead is stuck with the most user un-friendly model imaginable, where you need to buy the main book, the army book, the supplements they release in the meantime and the annual patch-supplement. Oh, and errata pdfs, to ensure maximum confusion.

PDFs of DnD books have always been stupid easy to find.

Wizards solved that with DnD Beyond. They have their own digital library service that has a ton of tools to help facilitate not just the account user but their whole player group. People love to pay Wizards directly for a digital image that costs them no physical overhead and no print costs because of the convenience and the service.

As you say, GW is just back peddling in the opposite direction. As cumbersome and complicated for the user as possible.

 Kanluwen wrote:
All that said, given the entitled attitude of gamers these days when it comes to anything GW related? Nope. It ain't happening. You lot sunk it yourselves, whining incessantly about how they handled stuff with AoS.

Jesus Kan. Did someone strike a nerve?

Haven't seen Kan slam the shields up so hard for ages.

It's made me sort of nostalgic.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Honestly? Because while it might be consumer friendly, I don't think the upkeep would be worth it in the long run for a gimmick.

A service running since 2011 is hardly a gimmick.

When you think about it, it isn't really that different to the AutoRip service Amazon provides with some music CDs.

It's funny seeing some posters throwing every excuses in the book in order to defend GW outdated and exploitative practices.

Kind of a capitalist version of the Stockholm syndrome

This rumor thread's certainly taking a certain anti-GW turn as typical of rumors without substance.

 streetsamurai wrote:

Kind of a capitalist version of the Stockholm syndrome

GW games are built around that and it is their main business model to keep people playing their stuff

if you sink enough money into something, accepting that it was mistaken is very hard and the way forward of just using it and invest more money is easier.

see this also with companies that invest billions to pretend a dead horse is still alive instead of accepting that mistakes were made and write it off.

buying 1000 for a game, invest 100+ hours to build/paint and say that everything is fine is easier than acknowledge that you don't like it any more or that something is wrong

this is why we see a lot of people leave games with new editions
no matter what changed or if the game becomes better, it is the best chance to pull the plug (from past experience lot of people stay with one edition change and leave with the second)

So just to sum up the thread so far: there aren’t actually any new rumours worth commenting on, and we’re rehashing all the usual? K.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
So just to sum up the thread so far: there aren’t actually any new rumours worth commenting on, and we’re rehashing all the usual? K.

That's pretty much a given on most topics on this forum these days

The meta-commentary is so much more useful though...