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NinthMusketeer wrote: That makes me wonder how much of the diseases' potency relies on Chinese respiratory health, which is dramatically different than most countries.
Different in which way? Searching....
https://aqicn.org/city/wuhan/ Wuhan pollution data, doesnt look good, most figures in the orange at time of posting.
You may be on to something.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
That's actually a very good point, air quality is very low in a lot of big urban areas for China. Their almost insane growth has come at a cost and one is environmental damage from their development and factories. I suspect that becoming ecologically green is, at some stage, going to become important for them* and one can only hope that their accelerated development speed makes them accelerate their drive to improve the quality of their environment - accepting that already vast damage has already been done.
* I think the Olympics had some effect on this when they were shown up having tides of green waste seaweed from their offshore farms. However I also recall that they shut all the factories around one major urban area for around a month to clear the air for a major celebration. The fact that it took a month (I might have been several months I can't recall) to clear and yet only a day or two to get back to where it was once the factories were turned on - has to be something that is alerting the population to their problems. Even if only in relation to air quality.
And how does one misunderstand your boss telling you "Get your backside in here, I don't care HOW sick you are!"?
It goers like this. An employee phones the CDC and asks for anonymity, then says "A co-worker wants to call in sick with flu like symptoms and the boss is forcing them to come in to work. I am worried."
Imagine the rapidly descending shitstorm of officialdom that will then happen, and yes the employee will get anonymity.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
Moreover, 45 percent of Americans have no paid sick leave at all, according to a 2016 study published in the journal Health Services Research.In the more than 100 comments on Mr. Kurutz’s article, readers talked about what it’s like to work while passing a kidney stone, undergoing cancer treatment and coping with other illnesses. Some managers described their insistence that sick employees stay home and rest.
Nearly a quarter of US adults have been fired or threatened with the sack for taking time off to recover from illness or to care for a sick loved one, according to Family Values at Work, which campaigns for paid leave.
This climate is particularly tough for women, who are still the main caregivers for young children and elderly relatives, says Leanne DeRigne, whose research suggests some families could be spending more on medical bills because they are delaying treatment rather than taking time off.
It can also have serious repercussions for public health.
According to a recent report from Robert Half, 57% of employees sometimes come in to work while sick, and 33% always come in to work while sick, which means that as much as 90% of workers go to work while under the weather.
It goers like this. An employee phones the CDC and asks for anonymity, then says "A co-worker wants to call in sick with flu like symptoms and the boss is forcing them to come in to work. I am worried."
Imagine the rapidly descending shitstorm of officialdom that will then happen, and yes the employee will get anonymity.
It goers like this. An employee phones the CDC and asks for anonymity, then says "A co-worker wants to call in sick with flu like symptoms and the boss is forcing them to come in to work. I am worried."
Imagine the rapidly descending shitstorm of officialdom that will then happen, and yes the employee will get anonymity.
That's not remotely how any of that will happen.
It is how it has already happened. I even gave a link. During the typhoid epidemics the infected were expected not to turn up for work, and harsh punishment was doled out when one did.
There are also indirect parallels with the Macondo oil disaster. As a punitive measure BP were forced to pay for a furlough of other oil companies workers while their own drilling was stopped for a safety review. Relevant as it proves the mechanics to force a company to offer out of work payments already exists.
Add the two together and employees forced to work with potential coronavirus symptoms will likely result in workplace closure and forced escrow to pay for all workers, maybe even contracted ones. I expect authorities will be very draconian about this because the message will need to be sent. After some company managers are raked through the coals the others will be more cautious.
Yes bosses can be arses, a friend sent me this based on his own recent experiences with a harsh boss, and there are more employee rights in the UK than the US
however there are some things you don't mess with, and where harsh measures can be taken if one does.
It it comes to this we will likely already have road closures, quarantines, possibly even national guard deployments. If this is not the case it will be at the point of public discussion on rollout provision. It is not a business as usual situation.
I have some sympathy with management too, this is an excellent opportunity bunk off with a sickie.
Hiowever the lack of sick pay provision in the US will prove to be a problem, I wouldnt fear errant bosses as much as I would be concerned about sick employees, or bosses, who feel that cannot afford to miss a work day.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/30 18:53:39
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
It is how it has already happened. I even gave a link. During the typhoid epidemics the infected were expected not to turn up for work, and harsh punishment was doled out when one did.
You highly underestimate the exploitative nature of the US employment system, especially as it relates to low income populations.
Add the two together and employees forced to work with potential coronavirus symptoms will likely result in workplace closure and forced escrow to pay for all workers, maybe even contracted ones. I expect authorities will be very draconian about this because the message will need to be sent. After some company managers are raked through the coals the others will be more cautious.
You truly have no concept of how toothless public health authorities in the united states are when it comes to dictating to private business.
It it comes to this we will likely already have road closures, quarantines, possibly even national guard deployments. If this is not the case it will be at the point of public discussion on rollout provision. It is not a business as usual situation.
You're saying that you don't have some old coroner who throws a fit and campaigns for basic rights of the small people every time a new body comes across his table that didn't die of old age?
And how does one misunderstand your boss telling you "Get your backside in here, I don't care HOW sick you are!"?
It goers like this. An employee phones the CDC and asks for anonymity, then says "A co-worker wants to call in sick with flu like symptoms and the boss is forcing them to come in to work. I am worried."
Imagine the rapidly descending shitstorm of officialdom that will then happen, and yes the employee will get anonymity.
Assuming, of course, the employee knows this is an option. Most do not. It's not like ANY business goes out of their way to educate their employees on their rights.
Hiowever the lack of sick pay provision in the US will prove to be a problem, I wouldnt fear errant bosses as much as I would be concerned about sick employees, or bosses, who feel that cannot afford to miss a work day.
For most restaurant workers, it's not 'feeling' they cannot afford to miss work (and it's not for a day, it takes 7 to 10 days to recover from a cold or flu and no longer be infectious). It's that they ACTUALLY cannot afford to miss the work. You misunderstand how poorly these people are paid in America, and how expensive it can be just to pay for rent, food, and transportation.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/01/30 19:19:35
Overread wrote: You're saying that you don't have some old coroner who throws a fit and campaigns for basic rights of the small people every time a new body comes across his table that didn't die of old age?
Or did Quincy retire?
Theyre mostly just thrilled that its not a gunshot or an overdose.
From what I recall the restaurant workers (esp the serving staff) aren't even paid a full wage, but are instead supposed to make it up with tips. Which is why tipping is such a huge thing in America because its not a "tip" its actually paying their wage. Meanwhile in the UK serving staff get an actual wage so a tip is a tip on top.
Then again the USA has some odd anti-consumer/worker things like that. A bit like how many stores price things but don't put the price with tax on the label. So your shopping appears cheaper because they aren't including tax. UK side the only time you get that is if you're in a retail establishment that's mostly only selling to companies that can recover/refund the VAT or are exempt from it (ergo they won't be paying it).
Overread wrote: From what I recall the restaurant workers (esp the serving staff) aren't even paid a full wage, but are instead supposed to make it up with tips. Which is why tipping is such a huge thing in America because its not a "tip" its actually paying their wage. Meanwhile in the UK serving staff get an actual wage so a tip is a tip on top.
Tipping seems a bit more nonsensical from outside US culture than it actually is. The mentality behind tipping is giving the consumer control--if someone goes into a restaurant and feels the service was inadequate they have the power to pay less for that service, or if the service was particularly good they are empowered to give extra.
Obviously there are problems with such reasoning, but that's for another thread. In the meantime service workers generally have to make at least minimum mage and if tips are insufficient the difference is made up by the employer. But that is separate from the issue that many, many Americans literally cannot afford to miss two weeks of work.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Overread wrote: From what I recall the restaurant workers (esp the serving staff) aren't even paid a full wage, but are instead supposed to make it up with tips. Which is why tipping is such a huge thing in America because its not a "tip" its actually paying their wage. Meanwhile in the UK serving staff get an actual wage so a tip is a tip on top.
Then again the USA has some odd anti-consumer/worker things like that. A bit like how many stores price things but don't put the price with tax on the label. So your shopping appears cheaper because they aren't including tax. UK side the only time you get that is if you're in a retail establishment that's mostly only selling to companies that can recover/refund the VAT or are exempt from it (ergo they won't be paying it).
How it generally works is that Servers get paid either minimum wage OR the sum of their tips. Whichever is greater.
I fully agree that tips should be in addition to whatever their hourly rate is, not a method to supplement the restaurant's labor expense.
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
It goers like this. An employee phones the CDC and asks for anonymity, then says "A co-worker wants to call in sick with flu like symptoms and the boss is forcing them to come in to work. I am worried."
Imagine the rapidly descending shitstorm of officialdom that will then happen, and yes the employee will get anonymity.
Ah yes. The deep and abiding mystery of which employee called in sick, didn't want come to work and subsequently filed a complaint when told they had to anyway. Who could it possibly be?
Grey Templar wrote: The Spanish Flu was the last major worldwide epidemic. It killed millions, even in developed countries. The thing is its often forgotten because it happened at the same time as WW1, so its danger gets overlooked.
Yes, we learned a lot and have plans for the next epidemic. The thing is that that ability for modern society to contain a worldwide epidemic has never been put to the test. We simply haven't had one yet. And that's the reason a lot of people are rightfully concerned, we've had a century to prepare for a worldwide epidemic but haven't actually tested it. We don't know if we're ready, but time is up. Worldwide epidemics are cyclical and happen roughly every 100 years or so, so we are overdue and its a little concerning.
With some extra concern, considering how badly we're currently failing at measles, a disease problem we used to have solved.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/30 23:10:54
You truly have no concept of how toothless public health authorities in the united states are when it comes to dictating to private business.
You say this, even after I gave a DIRECT EXAMPLE of authorities dictating to very powerful private business. It is not the public health authorities doing the stick wielding, they just point out who the stick wielders go after.
If you need any further convincing take a look at the Reston virus outbreak in 1989. Ebola Reston is a virus only effecting monkeys, but it is a form of Ebola and it could cross species, as is usual it is named after the place where the first reported case was confirmed and is the second of the Ebola family of viruses not to have an African origin.
The Reston virus outbreak was handled my AMRIID and that is considered pattern for a serious virus outbreak in the US. The CDC is civilian, but AMRIID is not, the researchers have military rank. The idea that epidemic control would be handed straight to the military is not unlikely, so if you think those are the toothless public health authorities you speak of, good luck with that.
It it comes to this we will likely already have road closures, quarantines, possibly even national guard deployments. If this is not the case it will be at the point of public discussion on rollout provision. It is not a business as usual situation.
It goers like this. An employee phones the CDC and asks for anonymity, then says "A co-worker wants to call in sick with flu like symptoms and the boss is forcing them to come in to work. I am worried."
Imagine the rapidly descending shitstorm of officialdom that will then happen, and yes the employee will get anonymity.
Ah yes. The deep and abiding mystery of which employee called in sick, didn't want come to work and subsequently filed a complaint when told they had to anyway. Who could it possibly be?
Reading comprehension is not hard. I directly showed a scenario where a third party might call in, with reasons why. Bosses may well think as you do and assume it is the sick person who called in. However there are reasonable and even obvious contingencies how it might be a someone else. It still boils down to self interest.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/01/31 01:53:28
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
Waiting for my shill money from Spiral Arm Studios
Anyway. Death toll at 213 now
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Dear fething god there's literally nothing correct in what you just posted. Stop talking about countries you clearly have no knowledge of whatsoever.
SARS, MERS and Ebola (yes, fething Ebola) events in the 2000s and 2010s in the US were handled by the CDC, with logistical assistance where necessary from the US Military (mostly in the form of getting personnel to places without having to rely on commercial aircraft). I know this because I was there, and treated patients involved in the latter two scenarios. What you're describing are contingency plannings, roughly on the same likelihood of contingency plannings for what to do in the case of coordinated nuclear attacks on this country.
In other words, it aint ever happening. So stop scaremongering.
SARS, MERS and Ebola (yes, fething Ebola) events in the 2000s and 2010s in the US were handled by the CDC, with logistical assistance where necessary from the US Military
Reston wasn't. None of the above events were in much danger of breakthrough. Reston was scary, nobody knew how bad it was and containment was swift and went strtaight to military. May I recommend you read Virushunter by CJ Peters. Colonel Peters was in command of the Reston containment and cleanup. Interesting chap. He made it look like it wasnt a military op, Racal suits made that easier.
(mostly in the form of getting personnel to places without having to rely on commercial aircraft). I know this because I was there, and treated patients involved in the latter two scenarios. What you're describing are contingency plannings, roughly on the same likelihood of contingency plannings for what to do in the case of coordinated nuclear attacks on this country.
Nice that you use the word contingency, then at least I know you are partly on the same page. THAT IS WHAT I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT, and no things do not have to go nuclear or on par with nuclear for the contingencies to be enabled.
Congratulations, you've managed to read the news, and unsurprisingly gave it your own apocalyptic alarmist spin.
A WHO emergency does one thing: allow for particular resources to be used across borders, and clears some administrative hurdles for said allocation.
Put the rattle down please. Yes I can read the news, yes I can post a relevant announcement here, and no I am not scaremongering.
Assuming you are able to read the big words I suggest you read what I actually posted on this thread rather than accuse me of scaremongering. I have done the opposite, saying that China is doing a good job, contingencies are in place and if needs be they can be strengthened. Non-alarmist people should take some comfort that if civilian measures at halting disease fail there is a second option, it doesn't mean democracy is dead or essential rights will be removed, it doesn't mean the apocalypse has come either.
I put up the video before I watched it, because it was relevant either way. It is interesting that what the spokesperson for WHO stated at the start of the video mirrors what I wrote on page 2 of this thread, the parts that people started mocking me for then, just as you mock me now. Maybe I am not the idiot you take me for.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
Yes I can read the news, yes I can post a relevant announcement here, and no I am not scaremongering.
bs. You're entire presence in this thread has been "ZOMG THE NATIONAL GUARD AND FORCED QUARANTINES ARE COMING!!!! THE CDC IS GOING TO SHUT DOWN YOUR STORES!!!".
You've repeatedly demonstrated your exceptional ignorance of the various groups involved in a response inside the United States, the social dynamics of this population, and the situation at hand. You're deliberately talking up a public health situation in stratospherically alarmist terms. This is how disinformation fueled panics start, and you're doing an amazing job of stoking those fires.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/01/31 14:20:18
Assuming, of course, the employee knows this is an option. Most do not. It's not like ANY business goes out of their way to educate their employees on their rights.
CDC are not idiots, they will get the message out. Politicians will reinforce this, if you are sick do not come into to work.
Let us assume you are right though and too many frightened low paid wageslaves turn up to work sick due to financial necessity or employer pressure. I believe that will occur BTW so I am not saying you are wrong there. it only takes one to make the phone call and one boss to face extreme censure for that message to spread.
For most restaurant workers, it's not 'feeling' they cannot afford to miss work (and it's not for a day, it takes 7 to 10 days to recover from a cold or flu and no longer be infectious). It's that they ACTUALLY cannot afford to miss the work. You misunderstand how poorly these people are paid in America, and how expensive it can be just to pay for rent, food, and transportation.
I don't misunderstand at all. This is a clash of contrary realities. The lack of workers rights in the US vs an epidemic. It is at that point things change. There would likely be a Rosa Parks of restaurant workers, and she (or he) will be difficult to stop.
Yes I can read the news, yes I can post a relevant announcement here, and no I am not scaremongering.
bs. You're entire presence in this thread has been "ZOMG THE NATIONAL GUARD AND FORCED QUARANTINES ARE COMING!!!! THE CDC IS GOING TO SHUT DOWN YOUR STORES!!!".
Challenge accepted. Prove that. Fething quote me saying it, and dont edit the quotes down to twist their meaning.
Or stop and grow up.
You've repeatedly demonstrated your exceptional ignorance of the various groups involved in a response inside the United States, and the situation at hand. You're deliberately talking up a public health situation in stratospherically alarmist terms. This is how disinformation fueled panics start, and you're doing an amazing job of stoking those fires.
Second challenge accepted. Remember to add context.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/01/31 14:23:56
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
Yes I can read the news, yes I can post a relevant announcement here, and no I am not scaremongering.
bs. You're entire presence in this thread has been "ZOMG THE NATIONAL GUARD AND FORCED QUARANTINES ARE COMING!!!! THE CDC IS GOING TO SHUT DOWN YOUR STORES!!!".
You've repeatedly demonstrated your exceptional ignorance of the various groups involved in a response inside the United States, the social dynamics of this population, and the situation at hand. You're deliberately talking up a public health situation in stratospherically alarmist terms. This is how disinformation fueled panics start, and you're doing an amazing job of stoking those fires.
Yes I can read the news, yes I can post a relevant announcement here, and no I am not scaremongering.
bs. You're entire presence in this thread has been "ZOMG THE NATIONAL GUARD AND FORCED QUARANTINES ARE COMING!!!! THE CDC IS GOING TO SHUT DOWN YOUR STORES!!!".
You've repeatedly demonstrated your exceptional ignorance of the various groups involved in a response inside the United States, the social dynamics of this population, and the situation at hand. You're deliberately talking up a public health situation in stratospherically alarmist terms. This is how disinformation fueled panics start, and you're doing an amazing job of stoking those fires.
Bashing your head against a brick wall mate.
Its evidently not going to cause him harm or me worry.
n'oublie jamais - It appears I now have to highlight this again.
It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion. By the juice of the brew my thoughts aquire speed, my mind becomes strained, the strain becomes a warning. It is by tea alone I set my mind in motion.
