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Marxist artist wrote:
I have taken some of orlanths advice and have begun stocking up a bit, not TP essential food, I work in the frontline I.ean acute medical admissions ward and already have the 1st cases in . I am resigned to contracting as my exposure will be huge.

Ironic that if you are young and healthy and not in contact with elderly getting COVID-19 now is, how do I say this - a 'good idea'. Resources are available to treat you, you will likely get individual care prior to overstretch and once you have passed Go and got 200 antibodies life will be so much easier.

And thanks for the mention about taking the stocking up advice. Make the effort worth it to know it is helping people.

Of course, these masks are for single use only. I thought it was pretty obvious, but we had cases where our medical personal reuse single use suits to isolate individual many times. Sigh. Use your equipment for what it is meant and do not complain that it is not effective when you misuse it.

As for brighter news, in hearth of Lithuania today we had divine signs manifesting. Is it an omen? A hope? What Gods are telling us?

https://kaunas.kasvyksta.lt/2020/03/16/gamta/virs-kauno-susvito-ispudingas-gamtos-reiskinysfoto/

 Orlanth wrote:

Marxist artist wrote:
I have taken some of orlanths advice and have begun stocking up a bit, not TP essential food, I work in the frontline I.ean acute medical admissions ward and already have the 1st cases in . I am resigned to contracting as my exposure will be huge.

Ironic that if you are young and healthy and not in contact with elderly getting COVID-19 now is, how do I say this - a 'good idea'. Resources are available to treat you, you will likely get individual care prior to overstretch and once you have passed Go and got 200 antibodies life will be so much easier.

As long as you don't end up being one of the unlucky "young, healthy" ones who just gets rolled over by it. As it happens, it's not just bad news for the over-60's

https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/coronacast/think-coronavirus-only-kills-the-old-think-again/12058160

so.. there's that.

Good info here:
https://www.abc.net.au/radio/programs/coronacast/


I work in a petri dish.
Not frontline medical work, but another sort of venue that deals with a lot of sick people, and the government is loathe to shut down. One of those playing pieces in the big picture game therory that can be considered important enough to keep in play for as long as possible, but also individually expendable. - "For the greater good", essentially.
With all that, I'm somewhat resigned to getting it as well. I just hope I don't end up passing it to my 75-yo father who has a list of ailments as long as your arm, as my wife and I are in a bit of a similar situation to Orlanth as his primary carers...

So I kind of need to hope to not get infected somehow, and hope for the vaccine down the road, or it's pretty much game over for him.

Greece: 4 dead 331 cases. The lock down intensifies with charges pressed against shop owners who were open and additional measures on entrances to supermarkets.
And personal peeve of mine: the #$%&&* Church still hasn't abided by the rules of the lockdown, with one of the most influential Bishops publishing an open letter about how faith will protect the faithful and how all should come to the church, pray and receive communion.
In the orthodox rite Communion is the Body (special bread given by the priest) and the Blood (sweet wine out of a chalice) fed to each supplicant with the SAME %$^$&* Spoon!

konst80hummel wrote:
Greece: 4 dead 331 cases. The lock down intensifies with charges pressed against shop owners who were open and additional measures on entrances to supermarkets.
And personal peeve of mine: the #$%&&* Church still hasn't abided by the rules of the lockdown, with one of the most influential Bishops publishing an open letter about how faith will protect the faithful and how all should come to the church, pray and receive communion.
In the orthodox rite Communion is the Body (special bread given by the priest) and the Blood (sweet wine out of a chalice) fed to each supplicant with the SAME %$^$&* Spoon!

Even in my hometown, a catholic hotspot due to a rather well known monastery that has pilgrims from all over europe, they decided to close DOWN everything churchrelated.

I mean even the Patriarch in Costantinople said to listen to the Government but will the bishop listen ? NOOOOO....

Oof. 35 dead in England.
Was only 10 or 11 Friday.
Triples in only a weekend.

Ha, good to know this lunacy is not limited to catholics.
To my knowledge, the local catholic hierarchy decided to abide by govt. suggestion to limit number of people per mass to 50, and some bishops issued guidelines to receive the communion to hand, not to mouth, and to not use the holy water basins.
They still did not decide to close down temples, despite the obvious threat they pose to the elderly which mostly frequent them.

Oh, and one bishop, completely detached from real life as most autocrats are, stated that "only Satan fears the holy water" and "we should joyously ingest the communion as before, Christ does not transfer diseases or illness". Which was so astoundingly stupid even the catholic media called it out.

 Orlanth wrote:

Marxist artist wrote:
I have taken some of orlanths advice and have begun stocking up a bit, not TP essential food, I work in the frontline I.ean acute medical admissions ward and already have the 1st cases in . I am resigned to contracting as my exposure will be huge.

Ironic that if you are young and healthy and not in contact with elderly getting COVID-19 now is, how do I say this - a 'good idea'. Resources are available to treat you, you will likely get individual care prior to overstretch and once you have passed Go and got 200 antibodies life will be so much easier.

And thanks for the mention about taking the stocking up advice. Make the effort worth it to know it is helping people.

I have a suspicion the ‘you can be infected twice’ stories might have been circulated as a deterrent to people intentionally infecting them selves early on (to try and get themselves in ‘ahead of the curve’).

Yeah, it seems unlikely that you could get reinfected so quickly with the same strain, considering how the body usually works

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Yeah, it seems unlikely that you could get reinfected so quickly with the same strain, considering how the body usually works

Would reckon that is true, with false positives and negatives occasionally in the system could potentially account for this.

I am 40 years old so hopefully if/when caught I won't be in the small minority, again more concerned for my sister who is mid cancer treatment.

It might also be due to mistakes or a natural lull in the disease which fooled early tests into thinking you were cured when you weren't. Thus resulting in some going home whilst still being fully infected.

It could also have been that there was some panic to clear beds and thus some were sent home showing very early signs of recovery which later proved to be wrong.

Roberts84 wrote:Mist, which is minimum 70 microns up to 350 microns, is basically what coronavirus travels in.
There's absolutely no way this can penetrate a 6001CN organic vapors cartridge. Impossible.

Yeah and with the virus not being transferred by air using those filter on a standard mask that does not cover the eyes too is just an expensive gimmick

Da Boss wrote:Thanks Kodos, that is interesting. I am not as familiar with PCR, only done it once or twice. Likely it can also give false positives though, like any chemical test.

there were already false positves as you can be positive for the virus without having the infection


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Marxist artist wrote:

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
Yeah, it seems unlikely that you could get reinfected so quickly with the same strain, considering how the body usually works

Would reckon that is true, with false positives and negatives occasionally in the system could potentially account for this.

there are corona viruses that cause the standard cold and you can get reinfected soon after you recovered
so it is hard to tell at the moment what is really going on

 ValentineGames wrote:
Oof. 35 dead in England.
Was only 10 or 11 Friday.
Triples in only a weekend.

Well assuming mortality rate 0.5% then to archieve the herd immunity boris is aiming we are looking at around 200k deaths. So it's mild start...better hope the mortality rate in uk is lower than elsewhere. If it's around 3% like who says that's over million death.

Good luck over there

we just wen't up witth another +1000 confirmed cases of coronavirus infections in the span of one day. I'm wondering how wide and fast this thing is spreading in big countries like the US and russia.

60+ confirmed infections in russia seems a little on the low side, no? are russians just generally better at isolating themselves from eachother, or is the kremlin holding back from us the true number of registered cases of infections?

Or not doing much testing. Japan is also dubious on that front.

If you test 10 per day vs 10k per day then you appear cleaner even if patient count is samn

tneva82 wrote:
Or not doing much testing. Japan is also dubious on that front.

If you test 10 per day vs 10k per day then you appear cleaner even if patient count is samn

I think that was the original strategy for the white house back a month or so? keep stesting to a minimum, fervently hope the masses stay ignorant about the potential danger and just ride this whole thing out.

Cronch wrote:
Ha, good to know this lunacy is not limited to catholics.
To my knowledge, the local catholic hierarchy decided to abide by govt. suggestion to limit number of people per mass to 50, and some bishops issued guidelines to receive the communion to hand, not to mouth, and to not use the holy water basins.
They still did not decide to close down temples, despite the obvious threat they pose to the elderly which mostly frequent them.

Oh, and one bishop, completely detached from real life as most autocrats are, stated that "only Satan fears the holy water" and "we should joyously ingest the communion as before, Christ does not transfer diseases or illness". Which was so astoundingly stupid even the catholic media called it out.

Ha, it wasn't the bishop which ordered it, but the local and biggest monastery in switzerland that decided to close shop. That has also to do that they are under more democratic oversight due to the specific historic conflict during the formation of the federal state. Which forces especially the local branches to be a lot more concerned for the opinion of the locals.
(come to think of it, direct democratic institutions or semi formal institutions have infiltrated a lot of normally hierarchic structures, not unlike a virus itself )

Honestly, that's the general strat it seems. No one is doing as many tests as SEA countries did.

Yeah, the Netherlands have stopped testing direct relatives of infected cases basically assuming they'll catch it.

On a somewhat related note, despite official recommendations from WHO, RIVM, and ISOS-type organisations as well as our direct client's advise to not travel unless absolutely necessary or at all in the latter case, the company I work for has decided to just ignore all that and "evaluate the risks each trip individually", without, apparently, taking necessity into account, and is telling people that with mild symptoms they must still work, albeit from home only, when possible.
Because money > public and employee health, I guess. I'm basically waiting for either the Dutch or the Angolan government to close the airports to force the company to do the right thing...

Cronch wrote:
Honestly, that's the general strat it seems. No one is doing as many tests as SEA countries did.

I think Cuba was comparable, but nowhere else beyond East Asia.

It'd be near impossible without fantastic systems in place in advance. China is testing people several times a day if they're moving around, in facilities that do nothing else, and turning results around whilst the patients wait and then sends them directly to isolation if positive. South Korea, Vietnam etc are doing similar things as I understand it. Pretty much everywhere else has overrun facilities and sometimes multi-day lag times between test and result whilst people go home and mix with their families. If you don't have centralised, high spending, state medical infrastructure though (that doesn't sell off everything not being actively used - China was able to simply reopen mothballed SARS facilities as well as mandate massive new construction instantly), you're never going to have the facilities ready to go.

> I have a suspicion the ‘you can be infected twice’ stories might have been circulated as a deterrent to people intentionally infecting them selves early on (to try and get themselves in ‘ahead of the curve’).

Could also be faulty testing or dormancy. "“Once you have the infection, it could remain dormant with minimal symptoms,” Philip Tierno Jr., professor of microbiology and pathology at New York University, told Reuters last month. ... “And then you can get an exacerbation if it finds its way into the lungs,” he said. ... testing errors, and releasing patients from hospitals too prematurely, are more likely the reason for reports of patients who retest positive. ... Fukuda told the paper that it’s more likely patients are being released from hospitals while carrying dormant fragments of the disease that are not infectious, but resemble the virus when tested." Still, sounded like they weren't entirely sure.

https://thehill.com/changing-america/well-being/prevention-cures/487436-can-you-get-coronavirus-twice

He is not gonna break his neck or overheat because he is wearing a gasmask, guys...
Seriously we do gym with them in the army

State of Wyoming (.... Where?) closed all schools until April 3rd, and my church stopped lent and other worship services. Going to online only sermons and services.

I managed to get downtown to spread my money around to the local businesses I would like to not go out or business before the big shut downs hit in this area. This tourist town is toast this summer.

What's the justification for the several states / cities who closed sit down restaurants, but allowed carry out? I guess in the first case, you interact with a server, and in the second case the only interaction is those preparing the food? Generally, tables are not that close together, so it must be concern about an infected server, right? But an infected cook would result in similar...

I don't know, at some point the cure might be worse than the disease. Are they really going to bankrupt all restaurants in their states by keeping them closed for months? And now all those workers are unemployed...

I just can't think of a time I felt I got sick from eating at a restaurant. I can see gatherings where people are closer together, like bars or concerts, but I would like to see where it was recommended that they take this action. It certainly seems to have contributed to the grocery market panic buying, which is a huge negative. Overall, just not sure that was the right call... society has to continue to function.

Anyway, yeah... interested in thoughts on this!

 RiTides wrote:
What's the justification for the several states / cities who closed sit down restaurants, but allowed carry out? I guess in the first case, you interact with a server, and in the second case the only interaction is those preparing the food? Generally, tables are not that close together, so it must be concern about an infected server, right? But an infected cook would result in similar...

I don't know, at some point the cure might be worse than the disease. Are they really going to bankrupt all restaurants in their states by keeping them closed for months? And now all those workers are unemployed...

I just can't think of a time I felt I got sick from eating at a restaurant. I can see gatherings where people are closer together, like bars or concerts, but I would like to see where it was recommended that they take this action. It certainly seems to have contributed to the grocery market panic buying, which is a huge negative. Overall, just not sure that was the right call... society has to continue to function.

Anyway, yeah... interested in thoughts on this!

You’re extremely lucky to not have experienced food poisoning, which I have, several times from eating out.
Personally, I’m not eating anywhere outside of my own home and I am making all my own food.
Restaurants are Petri dishes of sickness, and it’s the last place I’d want to be during a pandemic.
I worked in them for over 20 years and I can tell you some horror stories that would never make you want to eat out again.
Our schools are closed indefinitely and the kids are not expected to go back until further notice.
The malls are only open for 8 hours a day now, with many stores just shuttering up.

As for the economic impact? It serious and should be a wake up call for how poorly prepared we are for any event like this.
If this isn’t the call for change in the way we do business, interact, work, and how we handle health care, nothing will.
This is an impetus for massive changes to our social structure and society, as we will see in the coming months.
Our system is already strained and it’s only a short jump away from near collapse.
Change is needed so something like this doesn’t ever have this kind of affect on all of the world ever again.
We had many warnings with SARS, MERS, etc. and we ignored the implications and carried on.
And now look where we’re at because the almighty profit rules the world.

Food poisoning is generally from bad ingredients. Did you ever feel like you got the flu from a restaurant? I certainly haven't felt that way... I can almost always trace it to a coworker / friend / school / etc.

So, I don't get why that helps... bars where people interact with strangers, sure, but eating in a booth in a restaurant involves no extra interaction other than with a server.

Putting all those people suddenly out of work just seems like it needs a better scientific justification to me. And I didn't see that recommended by the sources I'm following...

 RiTides wrote:
What's the justification for the several states / cities who closed sit down restaurants, but allowed carry out? I guess in the first case, you interact with a server, and in the second case the only interaction is those preparing the food? Generally, tables are not that close together, so it must be concern about an infected server, right? But an infected cook would result in similar...

Server, tables, chairs.

 RiTides wrote:
What's the justification for the several states / cities who closed sit down restaurants, but allowed carry out? I guess in the first case, you interact with a server, and in the second case the only interaction is those preparing the food? Generally, tables are not that close together, so it must be concern about an infected server, right? But an infected cook would result in similar...

I don't know, at some point the cure might be worse than the disease. Are they really going to bankrupt all restaurants in their states by keeping them closed for months? And now all those workers are unemployed...

I just can't think of a time I felt I got sick from eating at a restaurant. I can see gatherings where people are closer together, like bars or concerts, but I would like to see where it was recommended that they take this action. It certainly seems to have contributed to the grocery market panic buying, which is a huge negative. Overall, just not sure that was the right call... society has to continue to function.

Anyway, yeah... interested in thoughts on this!

If only all countries had paid time off in their labor law. If only some countries didn't have at-will employment which ensures sick people will keep coming to work...

Germany is making a huge fund available to businesses to help prevent them going bust. Is the US not doing something similar?