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 insaniak wrote:
Indeed. There are probably better places to get information on how national finances work. Let's keep it on topic, folks.

Ok sorry.

 Vaktathi wrote:

Marxist artist wrote:
I hope this doesn't class as political question as it not meant to offend or for discussion but in general where do countries in Europe and us get such colossal sums of money for there stimulus packages? Do they have it in banks or what? And if they borrow from whom?

It's typically borrowed, usually in the form of bonds.

Except if you are switzerland, which had implemented financial regulations on the state budget, leading to alot of excess money.
So much so that out finance federal councilor had to correct earnings upwards to his dismay.

(For the record, federal council is the highest executive Branche in out government.)

But yes in General they borrow the money from the Obligation market. In some cases also get money from national banks and if you are Germany Set up Bonds via Front company to rearm. Wait that's the history book talking.



Jokes aside, switzerland now declared emergency right.
Called upon more men then they are normally allowed without parliament which is Set out atleast until April 19 .
Shops closed beyond Food and Gas.
20 dead sofar and a high estimated grey area.

 Ouze wrote:

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Marxist artist wrote:
One of the profs In the uk said a death toll off 20000 would basically a great result, i am struggling to get my head round that , I understand what is going on and 20000 is probably conservative but wow what horrific numbers , a tradegy indeed and that's just uk estimate.

In what context did he say that would basically be a great amount?

He was asked by Hunt at the select committee to clarify if it was correct that the most recent modelling showed a decrease from ca.200,000 dead to ca.20,000 was accurate. He said that 20,000 seemed viable and was what he hoped would be possible.

 Vaktathi wrote:
Yeah, nobody should trust anyone who is specifically educated, trained, and experienced in a field of expertise, they're all arrogant and known to be remarkably wrong

Guess I'll get my next medical checkup done at the gas station and take my car in for servicing at the donut shop then.

You say that, but my wife went to the hospital to have our first child. She had done her research and was adamantly against inducing labor, especially using pitocin which has some very serious complications. The doctor insisted that she do it, and my wife continued to refuse - they made her sign a document stating that she was going against the medical advice of the doctor. And when she was sleeping, they tried to slip pitocin into her IV without her knowledge or consent (luckily, her mother was there and stopped them). We used a midwife for our second kid, and the experience was considerably more pleasant.

That experience, and several others that were worse but of a more personal nature, has convinced me that doctors don't nearly have their gak together as well as they would like you to believe. That's not to say you should go to a gas station for medical advice, but in my experience, sometimes doing nothing is better for you than doing what the doctor suggests.

And I think this coronavirus thing is another one of those situations. In 2018, the US had a terrible flu season. An estimated 80,000 Americans died from the flu over a few months, with 1,600 people dying per week at its worst - and that's with an easily accessible flu vaccine. If we had tracked the flu in 2018 with the granularity that we track the coronavirus, we'd be even more scared because it was much, much worse. At the very least, the death numbers now don't seem to be higher than the expected for a flu season, meaning that the coronavirus is probably killing people that would've died from the flu anyway. But because we are getting hourly updates and everybody is buying all the toilet paper, we're freaking out, man! New York City is threatening a quarantine when they've only had 7 deaths so far. More people die from tripping into manholes.

My main concern is that they are going to credit these absurdly draconian measures for saving the human race, so that next year's flu season will result in the same measures taken again.

 Sqorgar wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
Yeah, nobody should trust anyone who is specifically educated, trained, and experienced in a field of expertise, they're all arrogant and known to be remarkably wrong

Guess I'll get my next medical checkup done at the gas station and take my car in for servicing at the donut shop then.

You say that, but my wife went to the hospital to have our first child. She had done her research and was adamantly against inducing labor, especially using pitocin which has some very serious complications. The doctor insisted that she do it, and my wife continued to refuse - they made her sign a document stating that she was going against the medical advice of the doctor. And when she was sleeping, they tried to slip pitocin into her IV without her knowledge or consent (luckily, her mother was there and stopped them). We used a midwife for our second kid, and the experience was considerably more pleasant.

That experience, and several others that were worse but of a more personal nature, has convinced me that doctors don't nearly have their gak together as well as they would like you to believe. That's not to say you should go to a gas station for medical advice, but in my experience, sometimes doing nothing is better for you than doing what the doctor suggests

I can get that, and as with anything, an individual can be wrong or negligent despite gobs of experience and training, for sure, and is why for most major medical procedures a 2nd or even 3rd opinion should always be sought. But when the overwhelmingly vast majority of a profession are saying "hey, this is serious and could be very bad", that bears listening to.

 Sqorgar wrote:
And I think this coronavirus thing is another one of those situations. In 2018, the US had a terrible flu season. An estimated 80,000 Americans died from the flu over a few months, with 1,600 people dying per week at its worst - and that's with an easily accessible flu vaccine.

(snip)

My main concern is that they are going to credit these absurdly draconian measures for saving the human race, so that next year's flu season will result in the same measures taken again.

Without in any way disagreeing with the second sentence, I do want to point out that flu season specifically was the worst in 40 years - not a typical flu season. So I don't think we can use it as a baseline.

You know, more and more, I think of Y2K. All throughout 1998-1999, people complained the sky would fall when the year 2000 hit because many computing systems, critical systems, were not set up to take a 4 character year field. Nothing actually really significant happened, and people generally remember Y2K as being much ado about nothing.

What they don't remember is that Y2K wasn't a big deal because of an intense, coordinated effort across many industries to remediate the issue beforehand, costing unspeakable numbers of man-hours and budgeting.

One of the problems with successfully predicting and averting a catastrophe is that people use the lack of a catastrophe to question the effort.




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Roberts84 wrote:
Donkeys live a long time.
None of you has ever seen a dead donkey.

That, or some of us perhaps have a more rational perspective about the liberties we can expect on a wargaming forum's off-topic board, I guess. But, by all means, piss on the floor the minute you walk in and decry the injustice of being pleasantly asked to take it to the bathroom.

nfe wrote:
He was asked by Hunt at the select committee to clarify if it was correct that the most recent modelling showed a decrease from ca.200,000 dead to ca.20,000 was accurate. He said that 20,000 seemed viable and was what he hoped would be possible.

Ah. I suppose one of the few contexts that 20,000 people dead is a welcome number is when it's coming down from 200,0000. Thanks for expanding on that.

 gorgon wrote:

MiguelFelstone wrote:
I kind of feel like an ass complaining about gaming when people losing their lives, jobs, businesses ect but i don't get out of the house often and i was really looking forward to this years escalation league. I've already bought the full army, and we had 4 more months to go

It's okay to be disappointed, so long as you keep it in perspective. My kids were poised to have really fun baseball seasons because reasons, and I'm sad they won't get the chance to have those experiences and memories. Public health is infinitely more important and if this saves lives it's worth it, but I'm still sad for them.

Yup, beaches in FL are packed right now, and we have such a huge vulnerable population here.

So Florida's schools are closed through April 15th now, out another 2 weeks. Additionally, our state testing and school grading has been canceled for this school year. The possibility of an e-semester or optional semester is being floated- parents are being given the choice to hold their kid back or promote them.

That will have amounted to about a 5 week closure if we do come back the 15th- and will leave us with 5 weeks left for the school year.

 Gitzbitah wrote:
So Florida's schools are closed through April 15th now, out another 2 weeks. Additionally, our state testing and school grading has been canceled for this school year. The possibility of an e-semester or optional semester is being floated- parents are being given the choice to hold their kid back or promote them.

That will have amounted to about a 5 week closure if we do come back the 15th- and will leave us with 5 weeks left for the school year.

Gearing up for something similar in Australia. Hasn't really hit us yet but the rate of infection is exponential as observed elsewhere. GF's University has cancelled lectures, and it's looking like the Childcare center she manages will shutting up shop before the week is out.

 Sqorgar wrote:
[q
Second, I'm not sure self isolation of healthy individuals is really a good play. Everything I've read has suggested that exercise and nutrition are of paramount importance, and essentially imprisoning people to the point where they can get neither will only make the population more susceptible to the virus. Not to mention the effects to mental healthy that isolation can create. We could be trading a cough for depression in young healthy adults.

But children are little disease factories and I spent the first few years of my kids in preschool getting sick repeatedly, so I'm not against closing down schools for a little bit. It is easy to say that though, since I have someone to watch them and lose nothing from school being closed for a while.

Then again the isolation basically is "stay clear of others, avoid insides".

You don't have to stay locked inside your home...You can go out. If you are out and aren't in close contact with other humans you are safe. The thing doesn't jump 5m away to you in outside. Nor are cases reported where you contacted surface. Contacts have happened with close contact with infected people(and generally inside at that).


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MiguelFelstone wrote:

Ya that's not funny bud. People at my church were talking about how this was engineered by China to cause our collapse, these are the same people buying TP by the pallet. I don't wana get political but rolls down hill, maybe disbanding the NSC pandemic response wasn't a great idea.

And I have heard claims it was north korea and CIA

Conspiracy theorists are crazy.


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 Gitzbitah wrote:
So Florida's schools are closed through April 15th now, out another 2 weeks. Additionally, our state testing and school grading has been canceled for this school year. The possibility of an e-semester or optional semester is being floated- parents are being given the choice to hold their kid back or promote them.

That will have amounted to about a 5 week closure if we do come back the 15th- and will leave us with 5 weeks left for the school year.

Here they are going for study from home system at least for now.

My niece's biggest worry with the virus(bless kids small worries) is schools being closed she'll have to spend july at school instead Well kid's have kid sized worries. If that's the worst kids have to worry about good. They will learn bigger worries eventually anyway.

Regardless of anything else, this whole fiasco should be a wake-up call. It should really drive home how dependent we are in the west on imports and foreign manufacturing. There's actually a paracetamol shortage in Australia right now because all of the paracetamol in Australia is produced in India, and India has closed its borders.

Today was the gakiest St. Patrick’s Day ever.

Roberts84 wrote:
Regardless of anything else, this whole fiasco should be a wake-up call. It should really drive home how dependent we are in the west on imports and foreign manufacturing. There's actually a paracetamol shortage in Australia right now because all of the paracetamol in Australia is produced in India, and India has closed its borders.

"paracetamol" = acetaminophen.

There is stuff out there saying Ibuprofen exacerbates the COVID-19 virus condition/symptoms (I think it was the French Health Minister who initially said this?), but then I've heard that there is not enough evidence of this happening to definitively say it is 'true'.

But...maybe take acetaminophen or something other then Ibuprofen if you're trying to reduce a fever...?

Vaktathi wrote:I can get that, and as with anything, an individual can be wrong or negligent despite gobs of experience and training, for sure, and is why for most major medical procedures a 2nd or even 3rd opinion should always be sought. But when the overwhelmingly vast majority of a profession are saying "hey, this is serious and could be very bad", that bears listening to.

I don't know. I go through phases of learning everything I can about different things. A few years back, I did a deep dive into the US education system, and the stuff I learned shocked the hell out of me. And now, I'm reading about the history of disease and modern medicine, and I'm equally flabbergasted.

I won't go heavily into any of this stuff, but if you look up the stories of perpetual fever, Sister Kenny, Coney Island incubators, the Cutter incident, SV-40, or how Rockefeller influenced the direction of modern medical education, I think you'll come to a similar opinion on doctors.

Ouze wrote:Without in any way disagreeing with the second sentence, I do want to point out that flu season specifically was the worst in 40 years - not a typical flu season. So I don't think we can use it as a baseline.

I wasn't using it as a baseline. I was pointing out that two years ago, we had an outbreak that was much, much, much worse and nobody even noticed or cared, while freaking the heck out over something which is relatively innocuous in comparison.

One of the problems with successfully predicting and averting a catastrophe is that people use the lack of a catastrophe to question the effort.

While that is a possibility, it should be possible to see the effects of different approaches. For instance, the way the UK is currently handling stuff should show what a non-response should look like when compared to San Fransisco's complete lockdown.

Gitzbitah wrote:So Florida's schools are closed through April 15th now, out another 2 weeks. Additionally, our state testing and school grading has been canceled for this school year. The possibility of an e-semester or optional semester is being floated- parents are being given the choice to hold their kid back or promote them.

There's been, what, 190 cases reported in Florida? 7 deaths? And now they are closing schools, canceling all testing, and potentially extending the school year, if not straight up holding a bunch of kids back? For a disease which has a 0% mortality for children?

I don't want to watch my children for four weeks straight. I don't send them to school to learn. I send them to school so that I can get some peace and quiet. Guess it is time to start a family Necromunda league...

Roberts84 wrote:
Regardless of anything else, this whole fiasco should be a wake-up call. It should really drive home how dependent we are in the west on imports and foreign manufacturing. There's actually a paracetamol shortage in Australia right now because all of the paracetamol in Australia is produced in India, and India has closed its borders.

Panadol is manufactured in Victoria, and still accounts for the bulk of paracetamol sales. Most of the 'shortages' in the shops at the moment are due to panic buying causing unprecedented sales lavels, rather than actual supply shortages.

This is one of those times I am exceedingly glad I don't work in supply chain logistics anymore. The job I was in three years ago would be a nightmare, right now.


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 Sqorgar wrote:
There's been, what, 190 cases reported in Florida? 7 deaths? And now they are closing schools, canceling all testing, and potentially extending the school year, if not straight up holding a bunch of kids back? For a disease which has a 0% mortality for children?

The mortality rate in children isn't the issue. The issue is the mortality rate in the people it gets passed on to if it's allowed to spread freely. Children generally aren't being killed by it, but they are carrying it.

All of the shutdowns and other precautions being taken are intended to prevent situations like we saw in China when this all started, where it spread incredibly quickly and the medical services simply couldn't keep up.



The fact that more isn't being done about the flu mortality rate is a completely separate issue, and is in no way an indication that we should be ignoring this virus.

tneva82 wrote:
Profit comes from not losing billions.

That's next quarter, which might as well be a million years away from the typical CEO's viewpoint. Profits NOW are vastly more important, especially since he stock options just went down the toilet.

 Sqorgar wrote:
I wasn't using it as a baseline. I was pointing out that two years ago, we had an outbreak that was much, much, much worse and nobody even noticed or cared, while freaking the heck out over something which is relatively innocuous in comparison.

But is it innocuous in comparison? In 2018, roughly 43 million people in the US got the flu, and about 60k died. That's about 0.14% fatality.

By comparison, as of this writing in the US, 5,600 people have it, and 101 people have died. So, 1.8% mortality - more than 10 times worse than the worst flu season in 40 years.

if 43 million people get Covid-19, then at that rate, 775,000 people will die. And of course, it's likely going to be more, since the flu season was spread out over a really long time, and didn't overwhelm the medical system.

why do you keep claiming the flu and Covid are roughly analogous? It's so clearly, inarguably, indisputably just... not.

 Sqorgar wrote:
There's numerous reasons to believe that it won't be as bad in the US. Climate, health, nutrition, distance, and so on should ensure that the disease spreads much slower, while these same factors could also mean that the severity of the disease in those who do get it will be much less. Smoking definitely seems to be a major factor in the severity of the disease, and as I've mentioned, smokers have three time higher chance of getting pneumonia than non-smokers.

There's also factors saying America will get hit far worse. First and foremost, our for-profit health care system that leaves millions without affordable access to health care, and millions more for whom a major expense like three weeks on a respirator will bankrupt an entire family. Alongside that is large segments of the workforce with either no sick leave, or highly restricted sick leave, and these are highly concentrated in the food/service industry where they can do the most harm. These two factors have created a HUGE 'working even when I'm sick' culture in America.

Then there's identity politics involved, which I won't go into detail but you know what I mean.

Given that, you have quite a large number of Americans who are not going to self-isolate even when they're feeling poorly and spread the virus far and wide, and even more who will avoid seeking help early and wait until they're literally in the process of dying before heading over to the hospital, at which point there may not be much the hospital can do.

All the public places around here are ghost towns. I think people are taking it pretty seriously now, even if it took a week to really hit home. I have seen very few people being cavalier about things...

 RiTides wrote:
Let's try to avoid toeing / crossing over the politics discussion line guys, so this useful thread can stay open.

Also, sometimes it's useful to just ignore / let a person be if it's not something you can tackle without getting into that territory.

Thanks all

I apologize if i crossed the line.

 insaniak wrote:

Roberts84 wrote:
Regardless of anything else, this whole fiasco should be a wake-up call. It should really drive home how dependent we are in the west on imports and foreign manufacturing. There's actually a paracetamol shortage in Australia right now because all of the paracetamol in Australia is produced in India, and India has closed its borders.

Panadol is manufactured in Victoria, and still accounts for the bulk of paracetamol sales. Most of the 'shortages' in the shops at the moment are due to panic buying causing unprecedented sales lavels, rather than actual supply shortages.

This is one of those times I am exceedingly glad I don't work in supply chain logistics anymore. The job I was in three years ago would be a nightmare, right now.


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 Sqorgar wrote:
There's been, what, 190 cases reported in Florida? 7 deaths? And now they are closing schools, canceling all testing, and potentially extending the school year, if not straight up holding a bunch of kids back? For a disease which has a 0% mortality for children?

The mortality rate in children isn't the issue. The issue is the mortality rate in the people it gets passed on to if it's allowed to spread freely. Children generally aren't being killed by it, but they are carrying it.

All of the shutdowns and other precautions being taken are intended to prevent situations like we saw in China when this all started, where it spread incredibly quickly and the medical services simply couldn't keep up.



The fact that more isn't being done about the flu mortality rate is a completely separate issue, and is in no way an indication that we should be ignoring this virus.

Wow. My chemist literally bullshitted me in that case. Gave me a spiel about how there's a paracetamol shortage that will be ongoing due to the fact Australia doesn't produce any, and it all comes out of india.

Roberts84 wrote:
Wow. My chemist literally bullshitted me in that case. Gave me a spiel about how there's a paracetamol shortage that will be ongoing due to the fact Australia doesn't produce any, and it all comes out of india.

Most of the generic brand stuff does, and they have indeed shut down exports. When that will actually have an impact depends on how much stock is sitting over here in warehouses.

Well, lost my day job today. Not a good time to be working for a vacation company that's for sure. They laid off the entire marketing dept because there is nothing to market. Supposedly going to invite everyone back when this is all over. Didn't stop me from sending out about a dozen resumes so far, there's usually a lot of web design jobs in the area so fingers crossed. Good thing we stocked up before the axe fell

 Necros wrote:
Well, lost my day job today. Not a good time to be working for a vacation company that's for sure. They laid off the entire marketing dept because there is nothing to market. Supposedly going to invite everyone back when this is all over. Didn't stop me from sending out about a dozen resumes so far, there's usually a lot of web design jobs in the area so fingers crossed. Good thing we stocked up before the axe fell

Sorry about your job Necros... I am a teacher at a high school, and a college (Welding) and they have shut us down for 3 weeks for now but they are talking about ending it for the rest of the school year. I am only really concerned about getting to next Monday as the War Department and I are leaving to Mexico on that day and I have been looking forward to this since October.

I am not a doctor or scientist, but I have serious problems with the way that the media has been handling this. Not just main stream, but social media and uneducated morons that start all kinds of false rumors and are helping to blow this way out of proportion. I am only finding out bits and pieces because I have no social media or any kind of real internet presence. People that the War Department works with are losing their minds about this thing.

I don't know... maybe I am being obtuse but, I am just hanging back and watching the proverbial fireworks wondering how people are going this absolute bonkers over toilet paper. One of my kids asked me last friday what I would do if I had nothing to use. The shower is right next door to ole jonnie was my reply. Gross? Kinda. Effective in a bind? To say the least. TBH I just found this thread and there was zero chance I could read past page 6 until I skipped to the end, is this the end of the world and I am just like Peter from Office Space, or is this just completely out of control?

 Sqorgar wrote:
New York City is threatening a quarantine when they've only had 7 deaths so far. More people die from tripping into manholes.

Sigh. I see a lot of the utterly ignorant 'more people die from X' (when X is something usually fully established and the Covid is barely beginning, so the comparison is nonsense to begin with) and wonder if there is something wrong with math education these days.

To put it simply, suppose you have one sick person, who passes the disease to another once every 2 days (far smaller rate than Covid, by the way). Do you know how long that one person needs to infect every single human on earth? With 2 days between infections, and only one infection at once? Less than TWO MONTHS.

That's why people ""freak out"" about 7 infections - because it's last possible second to stop the pandemic. You do nothing, and a week later, you will have not 7 infections, but a hundred thousand. Guess how many ICU beds there are in the entire NY state - spoiler alert, it's two orders of magnitude less. And that's without considering one more week and the entire 20 million NY population will be sick, with a handful of exceptions. That's also 600.000 dead given the 3% mortality rate, which is coincidentally 50% more than USA lost in the entire World War 2, just from one state.

Gee, I see no reason whatsoever to be worried, and that's not even the worst case scenario

Good luck, I just did this last page.

insaniak wrote:The mortality rate in children isn't the issue. The issue is the mortality rate in the people it gets passed on to if it's allowed to spread freely. Children generally aren't being killed by it, but they are carrying it.

For the most part, their parents aren't in any danger either. The grandparents are, and even then, probably not as much in danger as they would lead you to believe (and if they were in danger, they be just as endangered by getting the flu, and we do feth all to prevent that). Seems a lot easier to tell the grandparents to avoid their grandchildren for two months than to take 3 million children out of school, cancelling all standardized tests, and potentially holding many of them back a year.

This is a GROSS overreaction.

All of the shutdowns and other precautions being taken are intended to prevent situations like we saw in China when this all started, where it spread incredibly quickly and the medical services simply couldn't keep up.

I'm convinced that it is physically impossible for an outbreak in the US to resemble what happened in China, partly because China was largely operating on incomplete information as they were the first to identify and deal with the virus. There's many other factors, like smoking rate and climate, that will also slow the spread of the virus in the US.

The fact that more isn't being done about the flu mortality rate is a completely separate issue, and is in no way an indication that we should be ignoring this virus.

What should be done about the flu is less about quarantine and cancelling school and more about improving the nutrition and health of the population.

Ouze wrote:
But is it innocuous in comparison? In 2018, roughly 43 million people in the US got the flu, and about 60k died. That's about 0.14% fatality.

By comparison, as of this writing in the US, 5,600 people have it, and 101 people have died. So, 1.8% mortality - more than 10 times worse than the worst flu season in 40 years.

First, I wasn't comparing mortalities. I was saying that something with many, many more deaths and infections happened two years ago and nobody noticed or cared. If we followed that flu with the same fervor, we'd still be in the middle of martial law. Luckily, we didn't, or else we'd be panicking about every flu season since.

Second, we don't know the actual mortality rate of this virus due to a lack of testing. When testing everybody on the cruise ship, something like 50% of them tested positive but showed no signs of sickness. We don't have the mortality of the virus, we have the mortality of the virus among those hospitalized. With the measles, you have a 1 in 1000 chance of being hospitalized, and of those hospitalized, you have something like a 1 in 100 chance of death. What you are saying is that the measles has a 1 in 100 chance of death because you only test the people already in the hospital.

if 43 million people get Covid-19, then at that rate, 775,000 people will die.

There's no evidence that this would be true. Even if every single one of those 43 million were hospitalized, the danger zone for the virus is largely the old and infirm - of which we have a limited number of. Basically, we'd run out of old, sick people before we reached that number. Most likely, the ones that are most at risk are also the ones who are most at risk from dying of the flu, which means that we'd probably max out between 50,000 and 80,000 deaths.

Something like the Spanish flu, which killed a reported 50 million people, is physically impossible to happen today because we don't have millions of soldiers pooping in buckets in trenches during a war.

why do you keep claiming the flu and Covid are roughly analogous? It's so clearly, inarguably, indisputably just... not.

Because there is limited and conflicting evidence that it is worse than the flu. It seems incredibly likely to me that the numbers we are seeing is largely because we are actively looking for this virus, thus we are actively finding it. In other words, because we are measuring it, we are getting a lot more data about this singular virus, when past flu epidemics didn't have nearly the same granularity of study.

 insaniak wrote:

Roberts84 wrote:
Wow. My chemist literally bullshitted me in that case. Gave me a spiel about how there's a paracetamol shortage that will be ongoing due to the fact Australia doesn't produce any, and it all comes out of india.

Most of the generic brand stuff does, and they have indeed shut down exports. When that will actually have an impact depends on how much stock is sitting over here in warehouses.

The cetirizine hayfever allergy tablets I rely on most days of the year are made in India too so I bought the big 100 tablet box a couple weeks back.

I had a game session on Monday. Decided to bring a prsent for everyone. I had plenty so I packed a roll of toilet paper per player, and gave them out. One player was out so it turned from bizarre weirdness to meaningful gift, gave her the bog roll of players who didn't turn up that day.

Today DM cancelled next four sessions, his brother has flu like symptoms and has had to quarantine.

 Sqorgar wrote:

Ouze wrote:if 43 million people get Covid-19, then at that rate, 775,000 people will die.

There's no evidence that this would be true. Even if every single one of those 43 million were hospitalized, the danger zone for the virus is largely the old and infirm - of which we have a limited number of. Basically, we'd run out of old, sick people before we reached that number.

That "limited number" of people in the US population over 65 is 51 million people. if 40% of that population got it, and 2% of those that contracted it died, 400,000 people would die. if 20% of that population got it, you'd still have 200,000 people dead. And that's just the cohort of old people!

How exactly are you calculating 60-80k mortality at best while also advocating we're going too far in trying to do anything at all to flatten out the curve and reduce the speed of infection?