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Fairly minor inconvenience, potentially big help as symptomless people don't spread it out so much. Point of mask isn't preventing you from catching.
You could be asked to wear a bright yellow mac before you go out and wash it when you get back - that is also a minor inconvenience but it doesn't mean it is effective in preventing the spread of the virus. I repeat - the scientific evidence that masks are effective at slowing or preventing spread of respiratory illnesses in a community is weak. All controlled studies have shown no or very little impact on the spread of a virus this doesn't matter whether you have it and trying to prevent spreading it on or don't have it and trying to avoid getting it because the tests consider a populace at large. The reason why this is unclear. My best postulation is that people don't use them correctly and do not continually swap them out / clean them.
Considering the inconvenience is trivial, even a minor improvement is enough to justify a mask requirement. Even a few % reduction in transmission rate is plenty to justify everyone wearing a mask when people can be going weeks as asymptomatic transmitters.
As for it not helping at all, obviously that is silly. The amount of particles masks block is >0. And even if masks did end up not helping at all, there is enough evidence to suggest they do to warrant requiring people to wear masks based on the information we have now. Simply because wearing a mask takes a trivial amount of effort.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Polls from the UK suggest otherwise, with something like 60 odd percent saying they would be afraid to go out to public places once lockdown is lifted. It's a little absurd really when you consider that for the vast majority of healthy folks, the likelihood of dying from cv is about the same as the likelihood of them dying this year anyway, that fear is irrational. I'll be happy to visit pubs and restaurants once they open up, I'll just avoid crowded places, which I generally did anyway.
Lol. It's always about me me me me with you.
Did it occur that just because you might not die your old parents could? Or that old lady you pass while you are in infecting stage without even knowing you have it as symptoms haven"t started?
Nope. Mememememememe.
Ah, nice of you to finally engage me properly for once. Unfortunately, you're mistaken.
By your logic, I shouldn't get into my car in the morning. Because I might kill someone with it. You could apply that to literally any action taken by anyone ever. There's always some element of risk.
Shield the vulnerable as best as possible, let everyone else get back to some semblance of normality.
An old lady isn't going to be infected by walking past someone outside.
I'll add this too. It might help you understand, as you really don't seem to be getting it.
This is a joke, right? Expansion of authoritarian policy? Without getting into politics, everything done by the government as a result of the coronavirus is a drop in the bucket at most compared to other actions taken in the past year. It is like saying you have a legitimate concern about an insect infestation because you found an ant trail by the front door, while the roof is collapsing because of termites. This has got to be sarcasm.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/02 20:18:32
Yeah maybe masks don't help. Maybe they do. Fact is though asian countries where wearing mask is common corona cases are low. Meanwhile europe where it's uncommon is wrecked.
Minor inconvenience and no real loss to person except "muh friidom!!!" So why not.
But hey i have got idea. People want freedom to choose whether to follow lockdown they can. Just sign one paper and you can do whatever you wish regarding lockdown. Of course if you then are found to have been infected(mandatory tests) then as you willingly put yourself to risk and thus started new chain of infections and death you face death penalty. Your choice, your responsibility.
"muh friidom" guys get their freedom to choose to ignore lockdown, it has price to pay and as bonus point darwin gets to show it's strength as humanity is rid of large percent of selfish idiots. Win win
I suspect China's population tracking app has been a massive life saver in this. The ability to track the population and then instantly inform any on a particular pathway and location that they've been exposed and to self-isolate is basically one of the most powerful weapons for shutting down infectious spread.
Having a population that will respond swiftly to such warnings and will take them seriously is also essential for it to work.
It makes testing effective because now every positive can instantly be tracked, their route known and most of those they came into contact with at least informed to stay home and also then tested.
tneva82 wrote: Yeah maybe masks don't help. Maybe they do. Fact is though asian countries where wearing mask is common corona cases are low. Meanwhile europe where it's uncommon is wrecked.
Minor inconvenience and no real loss to person except "muh friidom!!!" So why not.
But hey i have got idea. People want freedom to choose whether to follow lockdown they can. Just sign one paper and you can do whatever you wish regarding lockdown. Of course if you then are found to have been infected(mandatory tests) then as you willingly put yourself to risk and thus started new chain of infections and death you face death penalty. Your choice, your responsibility.
"muh friidom" guys get their freedom to choose to ignore lockdown, it has price to pay and as bonus point darwin gets to show it's strength as humanity is rid of large percent of selfish idiots. Win win
I’m going to save this post to use against you any time you or your fellow travellers ever start gurning about the death penalty or any other kind of corporal punishment.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/02 20:48:18
tneva82 wrote: Yeah maybe masks don't help. Maybe they do. Fact is though asian countries where wearing mask is common corona cases are low. Meanwhile europe where it's uncommon is wrecked.
Minor inconvenience and no real loss to person except "muh friidom!!!" So why not.
But hey i have got idea. People want freedom to choose whether to follow lockdown they can. Just sign one paper and you can do whatever you wish regarding lockdown. Of course if you then are found to have been infected(mandatory tests) then as you willingly put yourself to risk and thus started new chain of infections and death you face death penalty. Your choice, your responsibility.
"muh friidom" guys get their freedom to choose to ignore lockdown, it has price to pay and as bonus point darwin gets to show it's strength as humanity is rid of large percent of selfish idiots. Win win
I’m going to save this post to use against you any time you or your fellow travellers ever start gurning about the death penalty or any other kind of corporal punishment.
I was just going to ignore it as more of his inchoate drivel. but you realise that theres a pandemic on! any and all principles can be thrown to the wind!
Fairly minor inconvenience, potentially big help as symptomless people don't spread it out so much. Point of mask isn't preventing you from catching.
You could be asked to wear a bright yellow mac before you go out and wash it when you get back - that is also a minor inconvenience but it doesn't mean it is effective in preventing the spread of the virus. I repeat - the scientific evidence that masks are effective at slowing or preventing spread of respiratory illnesses in a community is weak. All controlled studies have shown no or very little impact on the spread of a virus this doesn't matter whether you have it and trying to prevent spreading it on or don't have it and trying to avoid getting it because the tests consider a populace at large. The reason why this is unclear. My best postulation is that people don't use them correctly and do not continually swap them out / clean them.
Considering the inconvenience is trivial, even a minor improvement is enough to justify a mask requirement. Even a few % reduction in transmission rate is plenty to justify everyone wearing a mask when people can be going weeks as asymptomatic transmitters.
As for it not helping at all, obviously that is silly. The amount of particles masks block is >0. And even if masks did end up not helping at all, there is enough evidence to suggest they do to warrant requiring people to wear masks based on the information we have now. Simply because wearing a mask takes a trivial amount of effort.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Polls from the UK suggest otherwise, with something like 60 odd percent saying they would be afraid to go out to public places once lockdown is lifted. It's a little absurd really when you consider that for the vast majority of healthy folks, the likelihood of dying from cv is about the same as the likelihood of them dying this year anyway, that fear is irrational. I'll be happy to visit pubs and restaurants once they open up, I'll just avoid crowded places, which I generally did anyway.
Lol. It's always about me me me me with you.
Did it occur that just because you might not die your old parents could? Or that old lady you pass while you are in infecting stage without even knowing you have it as symptoms haven"t started?
Nope. Mememememememe.
Ah, nice of you to finally engage me properly for once. Unfortunately, you're mistaken.
By your logic, I shouldn't get into my car in the morning. Because I might kill someone with it. You could apply that to literally any action taken by anyone ever. There's always some element of risk.
Shield the vulnerable as best as possible, let everyone else get back to some semblance of normality.
An old lady isn't going to be infected by walking past someone outside.
I'll add this too. It might help you understand, as you really don't seem to be getting it.
This is a joke, right? Expansion of authoritarian policy? Without getting into politics, everything done by the government as a result of the coronavirus is a drop in the bucket at most compared to other actions taken in the past year. It is like saying you have a legitimate concern about an insect infestation because you found an ant trail by the front door, while the roof is collapsing because of termites. This has got to be sarcasm.
And that is you, projecting your opinion, and subjective hierarchy of the importance of those issues, followed by a false equivalence to shoot down my point.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/05/02 21:14:06
Fairly minor inconvenience, potentially big help as symptomless people don't spread it out so much. Point of mask isn't preventing you from catching.
You could be asked to wear a bright yellow mac before you go out and wash it when you get back - that is also a minor inconvenience but it doesn't mean it is effective in preventing the spread of the virus. I repeat - the scientific evidence that masks are effective at slowing or preventing spread of respiratory illnesses in a community is weak. All controlled studies have shown no or very little impact on the spread of a virus this doesn't matter whether you have it and trying to prevent spreading it on or don't have it and trying to avoid getting it because the tests consider a populace at large. The reason why this is unclear. My best postulation is that people don't use them correctly and do not continually swap them out / clean them.
Considering the inconvenience is trivial, even a minor improvement is enough to justify a mask requirement. Even a few % reduction in transmission rate is plenty to justify everyone wearing a mask when people can be going weeks as asymptomatic transmitters.
As for it not helping at all, obviously that is silly. The amount of particles masks block is >0. And even if masks did end up not helping at all, there is enough evidence to suggest they do to warrant requiring people to wear masks based on the information we have now. Simply because wearing a mask takes a trivial amount of effort.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Polls from the UK suggest otherwise, with something like 60 odd percent saying they would be afraid to go out to public places once lockdown is lifted. It's a little absurd really when you consider that for the vast majority of healthy folks, the likelihood of dying from cv is about the same as the likelihood of them dying this year anyway, that fear is irrational. I'll be happy to visit pubs and restaurants once they open up, I'll just avoid crowded places, which I generally did anyway.
Lol. It's always about me me me me with you.
Did it occur that just because you might not die your old parents could? Or that old lady you pass while you are in infecting stage without even knowing you have it as symptoms haven"t started?
Nope. Mememememememe.
Ah, nice of you to finally engage me properly for once. Unfortunately, you're mistaken.
By your logic, I shouldn't get into my car in the morning. Because I might kill someone with it. You could apply that to literally any action taken by anyone ever. There's always some element of risk.
Shield the vulnerable as best as possible, let everyone else get back to some semblance of normality.
An old lady isn't going to be infected by walking past someone outside.
I'll add this too. It might help you understand, as you really don't seem to be getting it.
This is a joke, right? Expansion of authoritarian policy? Without getting into politics, everything done by the government as a result of the coronavirus is a drop in the bucket at most compared to other actions taken in the past year. It is like saying you have a legitimate concern about an insect infestation because you found an ant trail by the front door, while the roof is collapsing because of termites. This has got to be sarcasm.
Probably be more accurate to replace that third circle with "concerned about the UN black helicopters", but that wouldn't have the same veneer of intellectual legitimacy.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/02 21:37:42
I prefer to buy from miniature manufacturers that *don't* support the overthrow of democracy.
ValentineGames wrote: Not my pic, but god I'm sick of seeing this gak everywhere I go as well. Filthy, disgusting, scum.
Yeah its horrendous. I went to visit my mother on Sunday, she has the virus and is dying, only a few days left as my brother was told by a doctor. When i left the hospital )Wexham PArk Hospital in Slough) I saw a lot of discarded gloves and a few masks littered the pavement/hedge area just outside the entrance
I'm not going to re-read the lunacy that is the last few pages of this thread, but I'd be very surprised if anyone actually said that. Even that one guy banging on about how relatively difficult it might be for an Inquisitor to acquire power armour, I don't think even that guy said that.
ValentineGames wrote: Not my pic, but god I'm sick of seeing this gak everywhere I go as well. Filthy, disgusting, scum.
Yeah its horrendous. I went to visit my mother on Sunday, she has the virus and is dying, only a few days left as my brother was told by a doctor. When i left the hospital )Wexham PArk Hospital in Slough) I saw a lot of discarded gloves and a few masks littered the pavement/hedge area just outside the entrance
The problem is people are told that the outside of the glove is basically infected so they don't want to take it with them and finding a bin is likely beyond some. Then again I've long felt that the tide of rubbish along roadsides could be curbed if we simply got car designers to put a bin into a car! With ashtrays no longer included as default you don't even have a spot for sweet wrappers!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/02 23:04:31
Overread wrote: The problem is people are told that the outside of the glove is basically infected so they don't want to take it with them and finding a bin is likely beyond some. Then again I've long felt that the tide of rubbish along roadsides could be curbed if we simply got car designers to put a bin into a car! With ashtrays no longer included as default you don't even have a spot for sweet wrappers!
Yeah, given that laziness is pretty much the norm for most people, giving incentive to just dump it in the convenience of their car and taking it out later would do work in curbing a decent portion of litter, even if it won't eliminate it completely obviously.
Overread wrote: The problem is people are told that the outside of the glove is basically infected so they don't want to take it with them and finding a bin is likely beyond some. Then again I've long felt that the tide of rubbish along roadsides could be curbed if we simply got car designers to put a bin into a car! With ashtrays no longer included as default you don't even have a spot for sweet wrappers!
Yeah, given that laziness is pretty much the norm for most people, giving incentive to just dump it in the convenience of their car and taking it out later would do work in curbing a decent portion of litter, even if it won't eliminate it completely obviously.
I always thought if governments were serious about roadside rubbish they'd have it so that the rubbish bin on the car was a container filled from a single point in the car. Then when you pull in for fuel you simply pull out the container and dump the contents in a chute at the garage. Local waste disposal can then collect from the garage. It makes emptying of the car container effortless; painless and just part of the "stop for fuel" process. A few extra moments; a small modification to cars (somewhat bigger mod to garages) and you've got something that could save the country a fortune in roadside cleanup.
Overread wrote: The problem is people are told that the outside of the glove is basically infected so they don't want to take it with them and finding a bin is likely beyond some. Then again I've long felt that the tide of rubbish along roadsides could be curbed if we simply got car designers to put a bin into a car! With ashtrays no longer included as default you don't even have a spot for sweet wrappers!
Yeah, given that laziness is pretty much the norm for most people, giving incentive to just dump it in the convenience of their car and taking it out later would do work in curbing a decent portion of litter, even if it won't eliminate it completely obviously.
I always thought if governments were serious about roadside rubbish they'd have it so that the rubbish bin on the car was a container filled from a single point in the car. Then when you pull in for fuel you simply pull out the container and dump the contents in a chute at the garage. Local waste disposal can then collect from the garage. It makes emptying of the car container effortless; painless and just part of the "stop for fuel" process. A few extra moments; a small modification to cars (somewhat bigger mod to garages) and you've got something that could save the country a fortune in roadside cleanup.
Alas pollution and other ways to manage waste seems to be always very low on the government "to-do" list in most Western countries. They seem content to leave it to contractors and pay either lip service/the bare minimum since the current government doesn't know how long they'll stay in power, so they never think in the long-term.
Overread wrote: The problem is people are told that the outside of the glove is basically infected so they don't want to take it with them and finding a bin is likely beyond some. Then again I've long felt that the tide of rubbish along roadsides could be curbed if we simply got car designers to put a bin into a car! With ashtrays no longer included as default you don't even have a spot for sweet wrappers!
Yeah, given that laziness is pretty much the norm for most people, giving incentive to just dump it in the convenience of their car and taking it out later would do work in curbing a decent portion of litter, even if it won't eliminate it completely obviously.
I always thought if governments were serious about roadside rubbish they'd have it so that the rubbish bin on the car was a container filled from a single point in the car. Then when you pull in for fuel you simply pull out the container and dump the contents in a chute at the garage. Local waste disposal can then collect from the garage. It makes emptying of the car container effortless; painless and just part of the "stop for fuel" process. A few extra moments; a small modification to cars (somewhat bigger mod to garages) and you've got something that could save the country a fortune in roadside cleanup.
Do fuelling stations in the UK not have garbage bins to empty car trash into?
Every store here has a bin on the way out the door and a sign stating to toss gloves and masks into.
It’s a rather simple and effective solution that requires no changes to stores or fuel stations.
Then again people need to follow that protocol. But I haven’t seen any discarded gloves or masks anywhere here though.
I have a bunch of gloves in the center console of my car. If I need to go somewhere, I put on a pair, and do whatever (get the mail or groceries). When I am done with whatever, I go to my car, put the mail or groceries in it, and shoot them onto the floor of the backseat, then close the car door without touching the handle. I repeat as needed, a fresh pair for every place I stop. I obviously wash my hands when I get back.
I only work 4 days a week (10 hour shifts), so have 3 days off. The virus only survives on rubber for 2 or 3 days, so when it's time to work again, all the gloves on the floor in the back are again are safe, and can be re-used for the next week.
This is probably unnecessary. For me the gloves are mostly useful because I wear them when handling various resins, which are skin irritants: as a result I am well trained to not touch my face when wearing them, as well as how to take them off without contaminating my skin.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/05/03 02:21:22
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
Overread wrote: The problem is people are told that the outside of the glove is basically infected so they don't want to take it with them and finding a bin is likely beyond some. Then again I've long felt that the tide of rubbish along roadsides could be curbed if we simply got car designers to put a bin into a car! With ashtrays no longer included as default you don't even have a spot for sweet wrappers!
On an unrelated topic, I feel bad for messing with Orlanth over that gas mask thing a while ago ITT. I was re-reading the thread from the beginning looking for something, and a lot of what he thought might happen back in January has totally actually played out.
lord_blackfang wrote: Respect to the guy who subscribed just to post a massive ASCII dong in the chat and immediately get banned.
Flinty wrote: The benefit of slate is that its.actually a.rock with rock like properties. The downside is that it's a rock
tneva82 wrote: Yeah maybe masks don't help. Maybe they do. Fact is though asian countries where wearing mask is common corona cases are low. Meanwhile europe where it's uncommon is wrecked.
Minor inconvenience and no real loss to person except "muh friidom!!!" So why not.
But hey i have got idea. People want freedom to choose whether to follow lockdown they can. Just sign one paper and you can do whatever you wish regarding lockdown. Of course if you then are found to have been infected(mandatory tests) then as you willingly put yourself to risk and thus started new chain of infections and death you face death penalty. Your choice, your responsibility.
"muh friidom" guys get their freedom to choose to ignore lockdown, it has price to pay and as bonus point darwin gets to show it's strength as humanity is rid of large percent of selfish idiots. Win win
Sounds very fascist.
"Holy Sh*&, you've opened my eyes and changed my mind about this topic, thanks Dakka OT!"
tneva82 wrote: Yeah maybe masks don't help. Maybe they do. Fact is though asian countries where wearing mask is common corona cases are low. Meanwhile europe where it's uncommon is wrecked.
Minor inconvenience and no real loss to person except "muh friidom!!!" So why not.
But hey i have got idea. People want freedom to choose whether to follow lockdown they can. Just sign one paper and you can do whatever you wish regarding lockdown. Of course if you then are found to have been infected(mandatory tests) then as you willingly put yourself to risk and thus started new chain of infections and death you face death penalty. Your choice, your responsibility.
"muh friidom" guys get their freedom to choose to ignore lockdown, it has price to pay and as bonus point darwin gets to show it's strength as humanity is rid of large percent of selfish idiots. Win win
Sounds very fascist.
Social darwinism*. Fascism wouldn't give you the option Same as communism.
And all Of the above are moronic.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Scrabb wrote: "Two-thirds of Bangladeshi men over the age of 60 have a long-term health condition that would put them at risk from infection."
Per the article.
I'm not going to look up the article unless someone demands it, but Kamala Harris, a US senator, is pushing for a panel here in the US to investigate the disproportionate medical outcomes in the US as well to help drive the response. As with other countries, in the US, people of color are dying at a rate much higher than white people, in some cases substantially higher (13% of the population in a state but 30% of the deaths iirc).
I'm for the investigation. It could be socio-economic factors as mentioned, but perhaps there is a racial element to the disease as well, like sickle cell anemia.
A few minutes on google or better yet on the CDC website https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/hus/spotlight/HeartDiseaseSpotlight_2019_0404.pdf shows that preexisting medical conditions that would be comorbidities with covid19 deaths are more prevalent among African Americans. It would be more surprising if there wasn’t a racial disparity in the covid19 death rates.
Not sure what you are getting at here? We know that structural racism and discrimination leaves POC disadvantaged in health globally but the implication seems to be that it directly follows that this is an open and shut case underserving of investigation? Apologies if that isn't you're intention, but given the post that yours is presented as a rebuttal to, that's how it reads to me.
That POC are generally predisposed to ill health due to socioeconomic conditions does not mean we don't bother to investigate the specific relationships between demographics and susceptibility or vulnerability to a given disease. Even if those are known, it is still worth pursuing the specific manifestations of demographic differentials in relation to particular events. There's a lot of data there that is useful. Even in the most simple terms, that the numbers are drastically skewed even amongst affluent persons (the massive disparity between white and POC consultant fatalities in the UK, for instance) is statistically important, and very relevant to ongoing discussions re: intergenerational disadvantage even after drastic socioeconomic ladder-climbing.
Getting the stats is all well and good. But until something is done about the(already well known) root cause, any studies or inquiries feel like a distraction.
GoatboyBeta wrote: Getting the stats is all well and good. But until something is done about the(already well known) root cause, any studies or inquiries feel like a distraction.
Disagree. The root cause frequently isn't tackled because of the insistence amongst large parts of government and electorate that simple economic prosperity solves the issue. There is very stark evidence of the intergenerational longevity of disadvantage and structural barriers to health access here, and it is worth gathering whilst there is enthusiasm to do so.
tneva82 wrote: Yeah maybe masks don't help. Maybe they do. Fact is though asian countries where wearing mask is common corona cases are low. Meanwhile europe where it's uncommon is wrecked.
Minor inconvenience and no real loss to person except "muh friidom!!!" So why not.
Correlation. Does. Not. Imply. Causation.
For thirteen years I had a dog with fur the darkest black. For thirteen years he was my friend, oh how I want him back.
The alternative is letting people die for the sake of economy. Let's be honest, it's not about freedom here. It's only about making money.
And there are people who are fine with that. It is a fact. As long as they're not the ones dieing.
This is why there is a struggle : we have two world views clashing in the middle of a pandemy. It's just that there are real deaths involved at our door, this time. I know people close to me infected with this sickness. So yeah, when I see people advocating they should be sacrificed for the economy, I can't help but have a really bad taste in my mouth.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/03 11:30:04
ok, but can you point out anywhere in this thread that anyone has actually done that? are you incorrectly inferring it? or consciously accusing people of it to discredit their points?
tneva82 wrote: Yeah maybe masks don't help. Maybe they do. Fact is though asian countries where wearing mask is common corona cases are low. Meanwhile europe where it's uncommon is wrecked.
Minor inconvenience and no real loss to person except "muh friidom!!!" So why not.
Correlation. Does. Not. Imply. Causation.
There really is no point trying mate.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/03 11:52:08
Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children 
