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How is forcing everyone to take the same narrow path alleviating the risk of “death by coronavirus”? If anything, if I have to step into the spot where you just sneezed or coughed, etc., and then stand there for a couple of minutes, isn’t that putting me at higher risk?

Yeah, we're doing this in the hallways at work and it seems... counterproductive. We're also funneling everyone into the same entrance and same exit, which makes no sense.

 Manchu wrote:
How is forcing everyone to take the same narrow path alleviating the risk of “death by coronavirus”? If anything, if I have to step into the spot where you just sneezed or coughed, etc., and then stand there for a couple of minutes, isn’t that putting me at higher risk?

This was my thought process..it can also make the process unnecessarily long for those who don't needs as many items, increasing their time inside and putting them at higher risk of exposure.

Plus, I'm human, I forget stuff. I'm not going all the way back round, I'm turning and walking the way I came.

 gorgon wrote:
From today's NY Times:

As President Trump presses for states to reopen their economies, his administration is privately projecting a steady rise in the number of cases and deaths from the coronavirus over the next several weeks, reaching about 3,000 daily deaths on June 1, according to an internal document obtained by The New York Times, nearly double from the current level of about 1,750.

Needless to say, I will not be returning to the office anytime soon whether my company fully opens it or not.

Having this happen in a Presidential Election year is not going to be helpful...

...wait, 1,750 Americans are dying a day? Is that right?

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
...wait, 1,750 Americans are dying a day? Is that right?

Several EU countries (Spain, France, Italy, UK) have seen in excess of 1K deaths a day related to Corona. When you consider that the USA is many many many times bigger than even all four of those combined, its a very believable number. If anything based on the EU numbers its actually low at present. Potentially 1K deaths per state could be a valid figure. Though with the way its rolling over the USA chances are you "shouldn't" get that, instead you'd see it as a staggered effect as some states move through the curve of first infections at different rates.

The real risk is that with several states already opening up you might start to see second waves even before other states finish their first.


In short - yeah its scary that's why the world is going nuts over it.

Yeah, there's a chart for deaths per day here. You can look by state too.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/

Looks like we went above 1,000 per day in early April, and have been oscillating around 1500 since.

 Overread wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
...wait, 1,750 Americans are dying a day? Is that right?

Several EU countries (Spain, France, Italy, UK) have seen in excess of 1K deaths a day related to Corona. When you consider that the USA is many many many times bigger than even all four of those combined, its a very believable number. If anything based on the EU numbers its actually low at present. Potentially 1K deaths per state could be a valid figure. Though with the way its rolling over the USA chances are you "shouldn't" get that, instead you'd see it as a staggered effect as some states move through the curve of first infections at different rates.

The real risk is that with several states already opening up you might start to see second waves even before other states finish their first.


In short - yeah its scary that's why the world is going nuts over it.

I seem to recall Italy in its darkest days was about 950 deaths per day. Did it go above 1,000 at some point?

 Overread wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
...wait, 1,750 Americans are dying a day? Is that right?

Several EU countries (Spain, France, Italy, UK) have seen in excess of 1K deaths a day related to Corona. When you consider that the USA is many many many times bigger than even all four of those combined, its a very believable number. If anything based on the EU numbers its actually low at present. Potentially 1K deaths per state could be a valid figure. Though with the way its rolling over the USA chances are you "shouldn't" get that, instead you'd see it as a staggered effect as some states move through the curve of first infections at different rates.

The real risk is that with several states already opening up you might start to see second waves even before other states finish their first.


In short - yeah its scary that's why the world is going nuts over it.

Small nitpick, but the US is only somewhat bigger than all four of those combined. They're around 220 million altogether, while the US is ~330 million. Half again isn't nothing, certainly, but Europe isn't as small as you're making it out to be.

 Overread wrote:
Several EU countries (Spain, France, Italy, UK) have seen in excess of 1K deaths a day related to Corona. When you consider that the USA is many many many times bigger than even all four of those combined, its a very believable number.

Do you mean bigger in landmass or population? US pop is approx 330m. The pop of those 4 countries combined is around 240m, so only 1.375 time bigger.

I'm not making any comparison between the daily death rates of the countries (dispersal of population in US is very different than western Europe, and even dispersal in UK is very different than that of the rest of western Europe), but I think its worth pointing out that the US pop isn't many many many times bigger.

(edit: and someone else posts the same thing as I'm writing)

Prestor Jon wrote:
The only Federal assistance sent to people was a one time $1200 payment

And the $600 per week Federal addition to unemployment for people affected by the Covid situation. This includes self-employed people and people with partnerships.

Also, open economy is not the only solution. There is also the solution of 'Government steps in to help people pay for things' solution that involves less people dying...

 skyth wrote:

Prestor Jon wrote:
The only Federal assistance sent to people was a one time $1200 payment

And the $600 per week Federal addition to unemployment for people affected by the Covid situation. This includes self-employed people and people with partnerships.

Also, open economy is not the only solution. There is also the solution of 'Government steps in to help people pay for things' solution that involves less people dying...

This. The US is meant to be the richest country in the world. If it cannot leverage that wealth into supporting its own citizens through a natural disaster via short term increased government spending (you know, like exactly how it deals with hurricane relief, though admittedly there are those in the US government who try and oppose even that) then what is the point in making all that money?

If you don't want to do it via entirely handing out money (maybe you're afraid they won't spend it "responsibly") then you can alleviate people's difficulties by setting up aid package deliveries containing staple foods, vegetables, fruit, soap etc.

The US has more experience in this kind of response than many other first world countries due to the frequency of hurricanes, tornadoes etc. Leverage that experience.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:


If you don't want to do it via entirely handing out money (maybe you're afraid they won't spend it "responsibly") then you can alleviate people's difficulties by setting up aid package deliveries containing staple foods, vegetables, fruit, soap etc.

People who are concerned about "irresponsible spending" of stimulus funds aren't economically literate enough to understand the economy or to truly be concerned about the economy - irresponsible spending is exactly what you want in this situation, as it ensures that cash flows are maximized, which in turn drives the economic activity needed to create jobs and wealth, which in turn creates more cash flows, which drives more economic activity, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum. This is how you *grow* an economy, not by sitting on a pile of cash.

Theres a reason why its called "stimulus funds" instead of "necessity funds" - spending it is literally the entire point.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
...wait, 1,750 Americans are dying a day? Is that right?

Several EU countries (Spain, France, Italy, UK) have seen in excess of 1K deaths a day related to Corona. When you consider that the USA is many many many times bigger than even all four of those combined, its a very believable number. If anything based on the EU numbers its actually low at present. Potentially 1K deaths per state could be a valid figure. Though with the way its rolling over the USA chances are you "shouldn't" get that, instead you'd see it as a staggered effect as some states move through the curve of first infections at different rates.

The real risk is that with several states already opening up you might start to see second waves even before other states finish their first.


In short - yeah its scary that's why the world is going nuts over it.

I seem to recall Italy in its darkest days was about 950 deaths per day. Did it go above 1,000 at some point?

And with the 'partial reopening' that's ongoing and increasing?

Here in the USA, that daily death toll is probably going to go up, not down.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:


If you don't want to do it via entirely handing out money (maybe you're afraid they won't spend it "responsibly") then you can alleviate people's difficulties by setting up aid package deliveries containing staple foods, vegetables, fruit, soap etc.

People who are concerned about "irresponsible spending" of stimulus funds aren't economically literate enough to understand the economy or to truly be concerned about the economy - irresponsible spending is exactly what you want in this situation, as it ensures that cash flows are maximized, which in turn drives the economic activity needed to create jobs and wealth, which in turn creates more cash flows, which drives more economic activity, etc. etc. etc. ad nauseum. This is how you *grow* an economy, not by sitting on a pile of cash.

Theres a reason why its called "stimulus funds" instead of "necessity funds" - spending it is literally the entire point.

Agreed. But if you supply basic goods then the people who receive them can spend the money they would otherwise have to spend on that on something else. So you are still effectively injecting cash into the system but in a way which allows for the government to deflect some of that criticism. So might be more palatable to some groups of the populace as it doesn't feel as much like the government buying people a new margarita machine, even if the end result is actually the same.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
...wait, 1,750 Americans are dying a day? Is that right?

Several EU countries (Spain, France, Italy, UK) have seen in excess of 1K deaths a day related to Corona. When you consider that the USA is many many many times bigger than even all four of those combined, its a very believable number. If anything based on the EU numbers its actually low at present. Potentially 1K deaths per state could be a valid figure. Though with the way its rolling over the USA chances are you "shouldn't" get that, instead you'd see it as a staggered effect as some states move through the curve of first infections at different rates.

The real risk is that with several states already opening up you might start to see second waves even before other states finish their first.


In short - yeah its scary that's why the world is going nuts over it.

I seem to recall Italy in its darkest days was about 950 deaths per day. Did it go above 1,000 at some point?

It's passed 2,000 per day at some points and the expectation is that it could hit 3,000 per day in June. It's getting worse, not better.

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:

 Overread wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
...wait, 1,750 Americans are dying a day? Is that right?

Several EU countries (Spain, France, Italy, UK) have seen in excess of 1K deaths a day related to Corona. When you consider that the USA is many many many times bigger than even all four of those combined, its a very believable number. If anything based on the EU numbers its actually low at present. Potentially 1K deaths per state could be a valid figure. Though with the way its rolling over the USA chances are you "shouldn't" get that, instead you'd see it as a staggered effect as some states move through the curve of first infections at different rates.

The real risk is that with several states already opening up you might start to see second waves even before other states finish their first.


In short - yeah its scary that's why the world is going nuts over it.

I seem to recall Italy in its darkest days was about 950 deaths per day. Did it go above 1,000 at some point?

Yes, but Italy's number is a far more significant one than the US. Italy has a pop of 60 million. The US has a pop of 328 million. 950 deaths/60 million is way worse than 1750/328 million.

On a per capita basis, the US's death rate for coronavirus is decidedly average.

Maybe now we can get a real international force to stay ahead of and react immediately to future threats of diseases not just in countries but on a global level. Something like an Interpol or NATO dedicted disease prevention and control force.

Hey, I can dream.

 skyth wrote:

Prestor Jon wrote:
The only Federal assistance sent to people was a one time $1200 payment

And the $600 per week Federal addition to unemployment for people affected by the Covid situation. This includes self-employed people and people with partnerships.

Believe it when I see it, unfortunately.

 Matt Swain wrote:
Maybe now we can get a real international force to stay ahead of and react immediately to future threats of diseases not just in countries but on a global level. Something like an Interpol or NATO dedicted disease prevention and control force.

Hey, I can dream.

Isn't that what the WHO is supposed to do?

Anyway, a more useful thing might be a strategic global reserve of non-perishable medical supplies buried in a bunker in Greenland or something.

 A Town Called Malus wrote:


This. The US is meant to be the richest country in the world. If it cannot leverage that wealth into supporting its own citizens through a natural disaster via short term increased government spending (you know, like exactly how it deals with hurricane relief, though admittedly there are those in the US government who try and oppose even that) then what is the point in making all that money?

Stealth bombers don't come cheap

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
...wait, 1,750 Americans are dying a day? Is that right?

If anything that's suspiciously low. US is getting off extremely light especially compared to how slow and half-hearted response to it was. Makes one wonder what kind of number fudging they are doing. But then again one state already banned releasing cause of death so...

 Overread wrote:

 KamikazeCanuck wrote:
...wait, 1,750 Americans are dying a day? Is that right?

Several EU countries (Spain, France, Italy, UK) have seen in excess of 1K deaths a day related to Corona.

Like for like comparisons are not possible, and we need a whole load of data not yet available to even get close, but:

According to https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus, France reached over 1,000 daily deaths on five days and the UK saw it seven times. I think some of these include weekend lags. Italy and Spain have never had 1,000 in a day. These countries are down to less than 800 combined now. We'll see what the lockdown relaxation does to that over the next couple weeks.

Huh. Was just waiting for that one.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52540266

Crispy78 wrote:
Huh. Was just waiting for that one.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-52540266

Very productive behaviour...

ONS numbers for w/e 24.04.20 (week five after lockdown began).

21,997 deaths. That's 11,500 above the 5 year average for the same week. Down 350 from the previous week and that's the first decrease since pandemic began. It is still the second highest dataset since recording began (previous week was the highest).

We're now at a total of 38,000 deaths attributed to Covid-19 over the duration of the pandemic and 42,000 deaths above the five year average for the same period.

Seeing some truly horrendous things on CNN. Never mind the sleaze bag who wiped his nose on the clerk’s sleeve, a security guard was murdered for asking someone to put the mask on. I don’t care, at this rate, you deserve all you get.

 Future War Cultist wrote:
Seeing some truly horrendous things on CNN. Never mind the sleaze bag who wiped his nose on the clerk’s sleeve, a security guard was murdered for asking someone to put the mask on. I don’t care, at this rate, you deserve all you get.

understandable sentiment, but thankfully the majority of people aren't that daft.

As far as killing time...I’m on paternity leave from work until the start of June, have a one month old son at home, and have been clearing models out to build the start of his college fund. For reasons I don’t wish to disclose publicly, I’m currently doing this by myself for a few weeks. So I’m a stay at home dad with 24hr parenting, waiting for things to go back to normal (even excluding the virus).

 timetowaste85 wrote:
As far as killing time...I’m on paternity leave from work until the start of June, have a one month old son at home, and have been clearing models out to build the start of his college fund. For reasons I don’t wish to disclose publicly, I’m currently doing this by myself for a few weeks. So I’m a stay at home dad with 24hr parenting, waiting for things to go back to normal (even excluding the virus).

Wow, that's hard. Seriously, good luck to you. Is this baby your first?