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Bran Dawri wrote: In other news, it seems that recovery from the virus is more difficult than previously imagined.
In the Netherlands people recuperating after surviving now aside from reduced long capacity also seem to suffer from damage to other organs, like the heart and kidneys, and some exibit symptoms of a brain infarct (is that an aneurysm in english? I always confuse the term).
It's unclear if and which of these problems are due to the respirators and associated drugs, and which are after-effects of the infection, but it seems something's wrong with their blood afterwards.
Personal conjecture: If your lungs are so badly damaged that you need a respirator, brain damage from lack of oxygen seems quite possible to me.
Many of the people who have went to hospital have had their air amount in blood be even down to 50%...Under 90% is already abnormal. They are basically suffocating. That's how younger people can go to hospital only lately having had any trouble when they have been suffering from it even for week and then suddenly can die from it despite appearing to be okay only short while ago.
If your oxygen levels drop that low no wonder you suffer after effect. Wouldn't surprise many of the recovered people will have lost some of their expected life expectancy from corona.
Bran Dawri wrote: In other news, it seems that recovery from the virus is more difficult than previously imagined.
In the Netherlands people recuperating after surviving now aside from reduced long capacity also seem to suffer from damage to other organs, like the heart and kidneys, and some exibit symptoms of a brain infarct (is that an aneurysm in english? I always confuse the term).
It's unclear if and which of these problems are due to the respirators and associated drugs, and which are after-effects of the infection, but it seems something's wrong with their blood afterwards.
Personal conjecture: If your lungs are so badly damaged that you need a respirator, brain damage from lack of oxygen seems quite possible to me.
This explains what I’ve heard about my dad’s friends dad. He was suffering organ failure while in ICU and even now he’s still on dialysis. They reckon he’ll never be the same again. Horrendous stuff.
Amazing how every year nobody remembers VE day (or VJ day) but yet during lockdown its suddenly remembered because now they can drink booze and party! So pathetic.
I have heard chatter about pathology speculation that the brain is a direct, not indirect, target for some time, also about the heart and infarct means you lost blood flow to an area, long enough that the tissue in that area died.
aneurysm is when a blood vessel (by weakening of the wall, or high blood pressure, or perhaps a congenital defect in the formation of the blood vessel itself) expands a bit like a balloon, which is dangerous because many aneurysmal blood vessels pop and bleed profusely. Inside the head of a person, its ALSO dangerous becasue your brain is trapped in a solid casing (the skull doesn't expand) and inflating an small blood balloon inside the skull beside the brain crushes the brain and can cause its blood flow to be interrupted that way, or the aneurysm can pop (berry aneurysms, a from of intracranial aneuyrsm are particularly striking when they do this, as they cause an incredible headache, and often swiftly afterwards, death.) A popped aneurysm bleeds directly into the brain, or at least, directly around it, creating pressure that cuts off blood flow. An unpopped aneurysm, however, can also be very problematic because its one of the places in an otherwise healthy person that blood clots can form and suddenly cut off the flow of blood beyond the anyeursm (because clot in the way) .. thus depriving the tissue nearby of blood and potentially infarcting (starving for oxygen till it dies and rots) a chunk of the brain.
So the one can lead to the other, eh?
Infart in this disease is not necessarily anyeurismal. There seems to be a clotting disorder that is associated with the virus that could lead to lots and lots of tiny clots hitting the brain and killing lots and lots of tiny areas of the brain, with a similar outcome to a larger single infarction event. Look up the term "lacunar" brain infaction. Its also possible that whatever chainge in blood chemistry that causes false readings on pulseoximetry in these patients is affecting things directly -- possibly via the accumulation of methemoglobins (has been speculated).
Its also possible that virus enters inside the blood brain barrier and directly kills neurons and support cells, causing areas of dead tissue. There has been chatter about this possibility since some neurologists became aware of diminished central respiratory drive in some patients a few month ago.
It is also (so many) possible that the immune system recognizes the virus -- but that some protein or glycoprotien or something in the brain is so similar that the immune system attacks the brain itself. This is usually prevented or diminished by a healthy blood brain barrier, but in a patient on a respirator, all sorts of stuff may stop working that you can normally sort of count on in the body's normal state. Hell, you could even be triggering microseizures from hypoxia in local brain tissue that leads to the overload and metabolic burnout of .. well, point is, your scientist types will probably spend 10 years arguing over what is doing this.
The upshot we need to know is, its happening, and the virus causes it, and its something we got to be aware of when we try to figure out what comes next.
The personal conjecture isn't necessarily wrong -- the respirator makes breathing less difficult and removes part of the need for the body to provide the energy to do so. This doesn't necessarily help if the lung fields themselves are so damaged from local inflammation that the usually gossamer thin alveoli (part of the lung your oxygen enters) is clogged by inflammation and can't accept outside air oxygen. This ALSO is discussed by various people studying this horrific and unpleasant disease of old folk. So apparently, ventilators have been useless in a large percentage of patients, or to put it another way, between 80 and 88 percent (depends on which study) of the venitilator patients die on the vent. The 12 percent who someday get weaned off it probably come as close to death as you care to name, and may have all sorts of chronic low oxygen in their tissues issues. (The main offendes there being heart, kidney, brain, which are all tissues that run hot metabolically. While I think liver does a lot of metabolism, the liver has significant regenerative capabilities the other 3 organs lack.) But I digress.
Anyway. Upshot is, its probably better not to get very sick with this virus and nearly die, if you can avoid that, too.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/08 09:49:03
ValentineGames wrote: Amazing how every year nobody remembers VE day (or VJ day) but yet during lockdown its suddenly remembered because now they can drink booze and party! So pathetic.
That has nothing to do with the lockdown. The government moved the May bank holiday to coincide with VE day this year as it is the 75th anniversary.
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
ValentineGames wrote: Amazing how every year nobody remembers VE day (or VJ day) but yet during lockdown its suddenly remembered because now they can drink booze and party! So pathetic.
That has nothing to do with the lockdown. The government moved the May bank holiday to coincide with VE day this year as it is the 75th anniversary.
They also announced it after most calendars were printed; hence why some don't show the change. It caused a lot of annoyance for event planners, jobs and suchlike
ValentineGames wrote: Amazing how every year nobody remembers VE day (or VJ day) but yet during lockdown its suddenly remembered because now they can drink booze and party! So pathetic.
That has nothing to do with the lockdown. The government moved the May bank holiday to coincide with VE day this year as it is the 75th anniversary.
The date makes no difference to the point that nobody usually gives a gak until it gives them an excuse to party in the streets.
Just like the NHS clap. Nobody gives a gak. It's just booze.
ValentineGames wrote: Amazing how every year nobody remembers VE day (or VJ day) but yet during lockdown its suddenly remembered because now they can drink booze and party! So pathetic.
That has nothing to do with the lockdown. The government moved the May bank holiday to coincide with VE day this year as it is the 75th anniversary.
The date makes no difference to the point that nobody usually gives a gak until it gives them an excuse to party in the streets.
Just like the NHS clap. Nobody gives a gak. It's just booze.
A bit like the original celebration then?
Not sure if you are just being outraged (Trademark) for the sake of it?
Is there a reason they shouldn't? The fun police are out in full force on my camp, saying people can't even sit in their front gardens, but what's the problem if civvies want to do it?
queen_annes_revenge wrote: Is there a reason they shouldn't? The fun police are out in full force on my camp, saying people can't even sit in their front gardens, but what's the problem if civvies want to do it?
There is no problem. Valentine is angry for some reason.
Besides only a small minority were celebrating by breathing over each over and passing bottles of Value Vodka around - thankfully the further spread of Corona will be limited.
ValentineGames wrote: Amazing how every year nobody remembers VE day (or VJ day) but yet during lockdown its suddenly remembered because now they can drink booze and party! So pathetic.
That has nothing to do with the lockdown. The government moved the May bank holiday to coincide with VE day this year as it is the 75th anniversary.
The date makes no difference to the point that nobody usually gives a gak until it gives them an excuse to party in the streets.
Just like the NHS clap. Nobody gives a gak. It's just booze.
A bit like the original celebration then?
Not sure if you are just being outraged (Trademark) for the sake of it?
Yep I can’t say I agree that nobody ever remembers days like V E Day. There were plenty of celebrations that were due to go ahead today that have been cancelled for obvious reasons.
As a family the kids have made flags and hung them in the garden. We have been and will be watching the programmes that are on the tv then do the garden party thing this afternoon then probably binge watch Band of Brothers tonight.
It's definitely had far more attention than usual, but I don't think it's much more than the 60th, and less than the 50th. We do have a general trend towards increasing celebration of military history and military personnel, though, so whilst I think lockdown boredom has increased awareness and attention a little, it's really not that significant.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/08 12:34:19
That was extremely in-depth and informative. The news article I read concerning this was nowhere near as thorough. Thanks, and have an exalt!
@ValentineGames: Both remembrance day and liberation day (may 4th and 5th for us) are commemorated/celebrated every year in the Netherlands. It's a day off for most only every 5 years, but there's definitely attention to it every year. Bonus: Last year was also the 75th anniversary of operation Market Garden, which in the relevant cities is also an event every year. Last year there were actual WW2 paratrooper transport planes flying over the city (I live in Nijmegen), and surviving veterans of the battle from all over (mostly UK and Canada are invited/come over to be honoured.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/08 13:11:19
My brother was working on a massive event that was supposed to run this summer - a 500th anniversary... He'd spent a year planning it, apparently there was going to be a TV series about it and everything. Cancelled. He gets nothing for his work to date. And his busiest summer ever has changed to no work whatsoever.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: All the folks out in my local town sat in front of their houses. Hope the rozzers leave them alone
If they're being responsible and social distancing yes.
But if it's like outside my window where you've got a good 18 people and kids running back and forth dancing to noise from the 80's and 90's and getting drunk off their heads and drawing on our driveway and fences...
This is nothing to do with VE day. It's just council estate scum breaking all guidelines for safety and protection to get pissed and be anti social.
Police should be down here reminding people to be responsible and to use at least 1 braincell.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/08 15:19:29
might have some issues with step 3 there one fears.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/08 16:05:20
The poor man really has a stake in the country. The rich man hasn't; he can go away to New Guinea in a yacht. The poor have sometimes objected to being governed badly; the rich have always objected to being governed at all
We love our superheroes because they refuse to give up on us. We can analyze them out of existence, kill them, ban them, mock them, and still they return, patiently reminding us of who we are and what we wish we could be.
"the play's the thing wherein I'll catch the conscience of the king,
Do the plans even matter if shops are just going to reopen without being part of it?
Because things like GW don't fit into that plan until October yet they've decided on their own to open up even if only in a limited capacity.
So... This graph is surely pointless?
Grey Templar wrote: People think this is a disease like Smallpox or Bubonic plague where you can actually cure it. But its a Cold/Flu virus on steroids. You can't cure the common cold, you can't cure a 'roided up version of it either.
Ah so you are anti-vacc disbeliever? Seeing we have vaccines for influenza.
First, how in the feth did you get anti vac from that?
And second, where’s your source for your claims on Germany? I’m going to keep asking until you post it.
Yeah, I mean seriously. I didn't say anything about vaccines at all. I said Cure. A Cure is something that can eliminate a disease with nearly perfect results. In such a fashion that the disease can be completely eliminated, like we did with smallpox. A Cure might be a vaccine, like Smallpox was. Bubonic plague and leprosy are cured by antibacterial drugs.
Influenza vaccines basically suck, as far as vaccines go. They're only good for a year and they don't even fully protect you unless you get lucky. Saying they are a cure is completely false. The flu shot is just rolling the dice and hoping you get lucky. It might not work for you as an individual, it might not work against the strains you contact, and your immune system might not even need the help given the particular strains that year. Flu shots are only useful because they're cheap and don't hurt your chances so you might as well get one. If they weren't inexpensive and/or had bad side effects they would be useless because of how poorly they protect you.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: True. I guess it remains to be seen if they could make something for the few strains of cv. I thought that coronavirus ability to mutate was what effectively stopped vaccines being made.
There are plenty of coronaviruses with vaccines. If you're referring to the common cold, it's because the common cold isn't caused by any one virus. It's a collection of symptoms caused by hundreds of different viruses, usually rhinoviruses.
Which is why a vaccine for COVID-19 is basically a semi-useless goal. By the time it exists, COVID-19 won't be the problem. It'll be COVID-9 billion thats causing problems. And even if COVID-19 were still causing issues, Coronavirus vaccines are pretty ehhhh in terms of effectiveness.
So, you realise the 19 part refers to the year it was discovered right? Not the number in line? There is no Covid "9 billion" because we will have a vaccine before the next 9 billion years pass.
Facepalm.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/08 17:24:15
Grey Templar wrote: People think this is a disease like Smallpox or Bubonic plague where you can actually cure it. But its a Cold/Flu virus on steroids. You can't cure the common cold, you can't cure a 'roided up version of it either.
Ah so you are anti-vacc disbeliever? Seeing we have vaccines for influenza.
First, how in the feth did you get anti vac from that?
And second, where’s your source for your claims on Germany? I’m going to keep asking until you post it.
Yeah, I mean seriously. I didn't say anything about vaccines at all. I said Cure. A Cure is something that can eliminate a disease with nearly perfect results. In such a fashion that the disease can be completely eliminated, like we did with smallpox. A Cure might be a vaccine, like Smallpox was. Bubonic plague and leprosy are cured by antibacterial drugs.
Influenza vaccines basically suck, as far as vaccines go. They're only good for a year and they don't even fully protect you unless you get lucky. Saying they are a cure is completely false. The flu shot is just rolling the dice and hoping you get lucky. It might not work for you as an individual, it might not work against the strains you contact, and your immune system might not even need the help given the particular strains that year. Flu shots are only useful because they're cheap and don't hurt your chances so you might as well get one. If they weren't inexpensive and/or had bad side effects they would be useless because of how poorly they protect you.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: True. I guess it remains to be seen if they could make something for the few strains of cv. I thought that coronavirus ability to mutate was what effectively stopped vaccines being made.
There are plenty of coronaviruses with vaccines. If you're referring to the common cold, it's because the common cold isn't caused by any one virus. It's a collection of symptoms caused by hundreds of different viruses, usually rhinoviruses.
Which is why a vaccine for COVID-19 is basically a semi-useless goal. By the time it exists, COVID-19 won't be the problem. It'll be COVID-9 billion thats causing problems. And even if COVID-19 were still causing issues, Coronavirus vaccines are pretty ehhhh in terms of effectiveness.
So, you realise the 19 part refers to the year it was discovered right? Not the number in line? There is no Covid "9 billion" because we will have a vaccine before the next 9 billion years pass.
Facepalm.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/08 17:24:25
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
Just a quick forum reminder - please use "Post Reply" at the bottom of the page rather than "Quote" if you are only adding a sentence to a long text chain, or spoiler tags. We also ask people to refrain from image only posts.
This is just for readability on the forum in general, but particularly with a thread this large it is really helpful. Thanks everyone
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/08 17:25:33
reds8n wrote: ...on the subject of the calendar errors
Spoiler:
might have some issues with step 3 there one fears.
I know a lot of people have lost track of the days during lockdown but this is I mean apart from adding an extra day to the month, the 30th of June is a Tuesday
So, you realise the 19 part refers to the year it was discovered right? Not the number in line? There is no Covid "9 billion" because we will have a vaccine before the next 9 billion years pass.
Facepalm.
In the grim darkness of the future, there is only Covid 40k.
To be fair, it is a very easy assumption to make that the 19 means it's the 19th version. I thought the same thing until I heard otherwise.
"Through the darkness of future past, the magician longs to see.
One chants out between two worlds: Fire, walk with me." - Twin Peaks
"You listen to me. While I will admit to a certain cynicism, the fact is that I am a naysayer and hatchetman in the fight against violence. I pride myself in taking a punch and I'll gladly take another because I choose to live my life in the company of Gandhi and King. My concerns are global. I reject absolutely revenge, aggression, and retaliation. The foundation of such a method... is love. I love you Sheriff Truman." - Twin Peaks
Not sure if it's been said but apparently they are giving blood transfusions from people that recovered from the illness to people that have it. I suggested this only to a couple internet places but it is most likely this was thought up separately or already being done. Still it's nice to know it was a good idea. I'll post the link when I get on my computer but it should be in a simple search to corona virus.
Yes, an immune globulin. But they are difficult to make large scale so you would only use them for people in ICU most likely. Still need a vaccine to get out of this.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/08 21:22:28
Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children 
I mean apart from adding an extra day to the month, the 30th of June is a Tuesday 
