Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
The ones on the signs around the supermarket entrance.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
We have similar signs asking that only one person per household shops at the supermarket. That doesn't prevent mom, dad and their three kids casually strolling into the supermarket.
Sorry for my spelling. I'm not a native speaker and a dyslexic.
1750 pts Blood Specters
2000 pts Imperial Fists
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
Tomb Kings 1500 points Sekhra (RIP)
Those rules have been posted on nearly every single store, bank, garage and most places that I've seen. I think the only places that don't have someone on the door anyway and people are also assuming it.
If anything its more abnormal for a store not to be limiting customers at this time. Even a lot of the country shops that don't see huge numbers of customers even at the best of times are putting up formal limitations.
The ones on the signs around the supermarket entrance.
It amazes me when people always complain about signs stating rules or warnings on labels of food. People always say "Who is dumb enough to do that?"
Then you have responses from people like this. Who are completely oblivious to anything going on around them.
I think it is more "Who is dumb enough to do that, but also smart enough to read & comprehend the sign in the first place?" To which the answer may very well be no one.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Disciple of Fate wrote: AP came out with a story about the WHO internal struggles on dealing with China in January,some important bits:
WHO officials were lauding China in public because they wanted to coax more information out of the government, the recordings obtained by the AP suggest. Privately, they complained in meetings the week of Jan. 6 that China was not sharing enough data to assess how effectively the virus spread between people or what risk it posed to the rest of the world, costing valuable time.
“We’re going on very minimal information,” said American epidemiologist Maria Van Kerkhove, now WHO’s technical lead for COVID-19, in one internal meeting. “It’s clearly not enough for you to do proper planning.”
“We’re currently at the stage where yes, they’re giving it to us 15 minutes before it appears on CCTV,” said WHO’s top official in China, Dr. Gauden Galea, referring to the state-owned China Central Television, in another meeting.
...
The recordings suggest that rather than colluding with China, as Trump declared, WHO was itself kept in the dark as China gave it the minimal information required by law. However, the agency did try to portray China in the best light, likely as a means to secure more information. And WHO experts genuinely thought Chinese scientists had done “a very good job” in detecting and decoding the virus, despite the lack of transparency from Chinese officials.
WHO staffers debated how to press China for gene sequences and detailed patient data without angering authorities, worried about losing access and getting Chinese scientists into trouble. Under international law, WHO is required to quickly share information and alerts with member countries about an evolving crisis. Galea noted WHO could not indulge China’s wish to sign off on information before telling other countries because “that is not respectful of our responsibilities.”
...
“It’s obvious that we could have saved more lives and avoided many, many deaths if China and the WHO had acted faster,” said Ali Mokdad, a professor at the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington.
However, Mokdad and other experts also noted that if WHO had been more confrontational with China, it could have triggered a far worse situation of not getting any information at all.
If WHO had pushed too hard, it could even have been kicked out of China, said Adam Kamradt-Scott, a global health professor at the University of Sydney. But he added that a delay of just a few days in releasing genetic sequences can be critical in an outbreak. And he noted that as Beijing’s lack of transparency becomes even clearer, WHO director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus’s continued defense of China is problematic.
“It’s definitely damaged WHO’s credibility,” said Kamradt-Scott. “Did he go too far? I think the evidence on that is clear….it has led to so many questions about the relationship between China and WHO. It is perhaps a cautionary tale.”
WHO and its officials named in this story declined to answer questions asked by The Associated Press without audio or written transcripts of the recorded meetings, which the AP was unable to supply to protect its sources.
...
Hm, very interesting.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/02 22:51:54
The ones on the signs around the supermarket entrance.
It amazes me when people always complain about signs stating rules or warnings on labels of food. People always say "Who is dumb enough to do that?"
Then you have responses from people like this. Who are completely oblivious to anything going on around them.
in my experience these people will also be the ones who have gone to the lengths of getting gloves and masks, yet are completely oblivious to the one way arrows or keeping a 2 metre distance.
Local shop near me, a One Stop, a chain owned by Tesco, has a "one way system" and a bloke on the door - who doesn't move 2m from you when you go in...
Their "one way system" is badly laid out because you can't even go "one way" if you only need to go down two of the 3 or 4 cramped aisles! And it's literally one person in, one person out, premises used to be an old pub that was in an old house, think the house was early to mid 20th century, might have even been late 19th.
Luckily, I've not had to experience our local One Stop too often. Although I wasn't actually told to shield until I received a text on May 11th, yeah May 11th, due to chronic asthma. It took 4 weeks of praying and hoping I'd get an online delivery slot before any supermarkets prioritised my household.
Certainly haven't had to go to a full size supermarket since "lockdown" was enacted, couldn't get to one if I even want to.
Very frustrating at this time. I can't drive. I see people crowding on beaches, leaving litter, needlessly travelling hundreds of miles, etc. etc.. Meanwhile I'm observing the "stay at home" and "stay alert" advice as much as I feasibly can, stuck in my immediate area (5 minutes walking distance is about all I can manage due to various health issues) because buses are cut back to 1 every 2 hours, if the bus has just 9 people on it you get told you can't get on, and no service before 08:00 or after 18:00, Sunday service if you're lucky on other routes (especially to the nearest city).
Thoroughly fed up with it, especially while others carry on as though there's no pandemic, and it's all a jolly good break from work!
I also fear the bus situation will remain in effect for months, if not permanently. I can pretty much kiss goodbye to any job prospects going forwards.
I'm between jobs and I was volunteering, in an organisation that assists vulnerable people, albeit as an office worker, prior to this pandemic kicking off in the UK. Now I can't even get to anywhere if they would even take me on, even as a volunteer!!
On top of that we have government officials doing as they please, and government scientific advisors apparently at the very least getting the modelling wrong, thus causing this mass hysteria resulting in what was possibly an unnecessary "lockdown" which has damaged the economy for millions in the UK, when officially only less than 1% (possibly more like only 3% or 5%) of the population have had Covid-19, and deaths, as unfortunate as they all are, are looking like they won't be greatly in excess of the normal yearly death rate of around 600k per year!
Definitely not the only person in the same situation either. Much like when we were "locked down" there doesn't seem to be any coherent plan, if any, in place or forthcoming for people in my situation going forwards. Seems we're supposed to "make do" with whatever public transport services are left and tough luck if it's unusable for getting to/from employment or anything else! We, yet again, seem to be being swept under the carpet like an inconvenient truth, whilst the govt. pander to golfists and people who can get to Ikea and queue all day!
I'm glad some people's biggest issue is what signage to look at whilst out shopping, or if they'll get a holiday this year!
This message was edited 38 times. Last update was at 2020/06/03 06:58:28
It is a wonder sometimes how many of those people are either willfully ignorant (not reading signage to have an excuse) or just don't think said guidelines apply to them? At my supermarket near the train station you'll likely more people walking against the bright green arrows on the floor than with them and act with indifference when notified. And this is a relatively multicultural area, a decent mix of lots of different groups from different areas.
The one way arrow systems are dumb. I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you want to minimize people's contact, you don't funnel them all around the same way and block off any mid aisle through points. I find it staggering that no one else can see this. I've come into contact with more people in the few shops with one way systems than I ever have in places without
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/03 06:59:21
Took it's sweet time but guy in charge of Sweden's corona fight admits they blew it with their initial response.
Well they got plenty of deaths as thanks, going to take longer to recover and won't be allowed to travel in nordic countries when they open up soon for travel(excluding sweden) much to their annoyance. But that's just silly complain from them.
Rob Lee wrote: ...and deaths, as unfortunate as they all are, are looking like they won't be greatly in excess of the normal yearly death rate of around 600k per year!
Yeah, what's an extra 65,000 dead people in three months between friends?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/03 08:05:39
Rob Lee wrote: ...and deaths, as unfortunate as they all are, are looking like they won't be greatly in excess of the normal yearly death rate of around 600k per year!
Yeah, what's an extra 65,000 dead people in three months between friends?
Like I said, without getting too political, it's unfortunate. Shouldn't stop anyone from examining the figures and putting them into context and perspective however.
We cannot do anything about the deaths now. They have happened, many would have happened regardless, and it is not helpful getting all emotive about it. We can however stop further hardship, even deaths, happening as a result of the coming economic recession, if not depression.
We have millions of people, some 60+ million, with more than 90% of the population having not had Covid-19, to be looking after, many of whom are vulnerable physically to Covid-19, along with many who have found themselves now in a position where they are vulnerable financially which could also leave them vulnerable physically. We have nearly 3 million officially on Universal Credit, with a further 8 million furloughed, some 2 million of those likely to lose their jobs if figures being banded about are correct, and who knows how many tens/hundreds of thousands if not millions out of work but for one gotcha or another unable to even claim Universal Credit.
And that's whilst there is still any sort of safety net in place.
The focus now should be on those people. They didn't put themselves in that position.
Frankly we shouldn't be in either position, given how other countries seemingly successfully planned for such a crisis and have far more effectively dealt with the virus.
This message was edited 12 times. Last update was at 2020/06/03 09:07:32
Might be worth starting this thread before the last page and having a look at, and responding to, some of the rebuttals of the above to save the Merry-go-round that you're about to start afresh
queen_annes_revenge wrote: The one way arrow systems are dumb. I've said it before and I'll say it again. If you want to minimize people's contact, you don't funnel them all around the same way and block off any mid aisle through points. I find it staggering that no one else can see this. I've come into contact with more people in the few shops with one way systems than I ever have in places without
Being a respiratory disease, breathing out and coughing is the primary mechanism the virus spreads.
Keeping people moving in the same direction keeps them facing in the same direction, and therefore away from each other, which is a measure that's been advised to minimise the chances of transmission.
But above even that, you have 4 people travelling down the same aisle, given most supermarket aisles in the UK are many metres long but few are sufficiently in excess of 2 metres, which way is easier to allow all 4 to maintain social distancing, all moving the same way or with some moving in one direction and others moving the other?
I'm sure you'll have a reason why this doesn't/shouldn't apply to you, but then you needed this explained to you, so...
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
well I can see your patronising tone and inability to form an adult discussion are still present and that I was mistaken in taking you off ignore.
yeah, I mean I forgot that no one turns their head, or that particles breathed out move forward with the person, and didnt disperse in the area in a static cloud... silly me.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/03 17:11:32
queen_annes_revenge wrote: well I can see your patronising tone and inability to form an adult discussion are still present and that I was mistaken in taking you off ignore.
yeah, I mean I forgot that no one turns their head, or that particles breathed out move forward with the person, and didnt disperse in the area in a static cloud... silly me.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
queen_annes_revenge wrote: well I can see your patronising tone and inability to form an adult discussion are still present and that I was mistaken in taking you off ignore.
yeah, I mean I forgot that no one turns their head, or that particles breathed out move forward with the person, and didnt disperse in the area in a static cloud... silly me.
You're evading the point.
How? I literally provided an example of why it is pointless in the last post. You're going to be walking through people's breath regardless of the direction you're going.
Not that (in my opinion) the risk of catching it in a supermarket is particularly high regardless, due to the limited amount of time you're actually in close contact with anyone (but certainly increased when you have one way systems in place)
Unless you're an owl your head will typically face forward or to the side when shopping. Which in theory means if you're all 2m away and all moving in the same direction the vast majority of your breath will not be near to another person.
Of course at times you're going to pass people; or you're going to pass staff etc.. The One Way system is about reducing the potential risk and reducing potential contact with others. It won't eliminate it entirely, its all about reducing within the bounds of "normal" life.
The one way system also makes it much easier to control flow of people through the supermarket and reduce bottlenecks forming where people are heading in different directions and more likely to pass others. Instead when you get a blockage people just end up lining up one behind the other at social distance distances.
I'm sure you'll have a reason why this doesn't/shouldn't apply to you, but then you needed this explained to you, so...
Called it.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
queen_annes_revenge wrote: well I can see your patronising tone and inability to form an adult discussion are still present and that I was mistaken in taking you off ignore.
yeah, I mean I forgot that no one turns their head, or that particles breathed out move forward with the person, and didnt disperse in the area in a static cloud... silly me.
You're evading the point.
How? I literally provided an example of why it is pointless in the last post.
No, you did not.
I know this is part of the devils-advocate-discussion thing you have going but it is getting pretty obtuse at this point.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/06/03 20:25:46
I think arrows in some supermarkets is fine, but I agree about the "funneling" part. I've run into so many places that are closing all entrances and exits but one... and this leads to way more congestion when entering or leaving than normal. I don't understand why anyone thinks this would help. Maybe it's just due to needing staff for other things (like cleaning) but it seems so counter-intuitive.
The same goes for places that, for example, no longer offer kid-seat shopping carts. Indications are that surfaces are not a major source of transmission, and by not having those carts I either have to cram my kids in the basket of a normal one (which I did) or have them out of the cart, which obviously is not as effective for me keeping them distant from others...
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
RiTides wrote: I think arrows in some supermarkets is fine, but I agree about the "funneling" part. I've run into so many places that are closing all entrances and exits but one... and this leads to way more congestion when entering or leaving than normal. I don't understand why anyone thinks this would help. Maybe it's just due to needing staff for other things (like cleaning) but it seems so counter-intuitive.
The same goes for places that, for example, no longer offer kid-seat shopping carts. Indications are that surfaces are not a major source of transmission, and by not having those carts I either have to cram my kids in the basket of a normal one (which I did) or have them out of the cart, which obviously is not as effective for me keeping them distant from others...
It's just a duvet, like everything else. If places seem like they're doing something, it makes people feel safer.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: well I can see your patronising tone and inability to form an adult discussion are still present and that I was mistaken in taking you off ignore.
yeah, I mean I forgot that no one turns their head, or that particles breathed out move forward with the person, and didnt disperse in the area in a static cloud... silly me.
You're evading the point.
How? I literally provided an example of why it is pointless in the last post.
No, you did not.
I know this is part of the devils-advocate-discussion thing you have going but it is getting pretty obtuse at this point.
Yes, I did. Azrael whatsisface is the one who didn't provide anything disputing my original point, followed by a nice little ad hominem, but this is fun. Lets keep going.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/06/03 22:07:29
Ugh, I just do not see the point anymore. I do see your strategy has generated discussion, but I do not see how it has moved the discussion forward in a productive way.
NinthMusketeer wrote: Ugh, I just do not see the point anymore. I do see your strategy has generated discussion, but I do not see how it has moved the discussion forward in a productive way.
Because that is the strategy, a certain political side has found that just repeating assertions ad nauseum until the other side stops bothering is the key to "victory". Productive discussion was never part of it.
I prefer to buy from miniature manufacturers that *don't* support the overthrow of democracy.
RiTides wrote: I think arrows in some supermarkets is fine, but I agree about the "funneling" part. I've run into so many places that are closing all entrances and exits but one... and this leads to way more congestion when entering or leaving than normal. I don't understand why anyone thinks this would help. Maybe it's just due to needing staff for other things (like cleaning) but it seems so counter-intuitive.
The same goes for places that, for example, no longer offer kid-seat shopping carts. Indications are that surfaces are not a major source of transmission, and by not having those carts I either have to cram my kids in the basket of a normal one (which I did) or have them out of the cart, which obviously is not as effective for me keeping them distant from others...
It's just a duvet, like everything else. If places seem like they're doing something, it makes people feel safer.
queen_annes_revenge wrote: well I can see your patronising tone and inability to form an adult discussion are still present and that I was mistaken in taking you off ignore.
yeah, I mean I forgot that no one turns their head, or that particles breathed out move forward with the person, and didnt disperse in the area in a static cloud... silly me.
You're evading the point.
How? I literally provided an example of why it is pointless in the last post.
No, you did not.
I know this is part of the devils-advocate-discussion thing you have going but it is getting pretty obtuse at this point.
Yes, I did. Azrael whatsisface is the one who didn't provide anything disputing my original point, followed by a nice little ad hominem, but this is fun. Lets keep going.
So you think that while you are in a grocery store, going down the lanes properly, it is okay the break the distance rules? Because it seems to me that you think that the rules don't apply to you.
We’re very slowly starting to return to normal, as heralded by the reopening of Ikea. Joking aside, cases are at very low numbers and I think the death rate is close to zero.
Heresy World Eaters/Emperors Children 
1750 pts Blood Specters
6000 pts Disciples of Fate
3500 pts Peridia Prime
2500 pts Prophets of Fate
Lizardmen 3000 points Tlaxcoatl Temple-City
