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2020/03/19 17:05:20
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Purifiers would at least contribute firepower. Crowe having zero range makes him wasted points of sitting there looking pretty.
Also at least Purifiers can get the 4++ on demand, though the use is questionable. Still better than Crowe though.
Crowe comes stock with 2+ armor, 4++ invul, and has Character protection... comparing his durability to a 5 man purifier squad is laughable.
"Zero range" is also incorrect ; he has a storm bolter, and 2+ ballistic skill... However contributing a few more storm bolter shots is not even his purpose so that point is just irrelevant...
Are you really judging HQ characters by their shooting ability?
Crowe is a really cheap and durable mortal wound hose for his points and can add a lot to other imperial factions in a small GK detachment
His purpose is mortal wounds according to you, which he is terrible for.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/03/19 18:10:39
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
Indeed, some nice thoughts showing that GK have gotten an edge.
Thanks! it's meant to be a 101. There's a ton of nuances to GK (and it's our first video so hopefully we'll keep improving for future tactica videos). We have a really nice battle report to showcase some different tricks coming later this week or early next week.
Chief Filthy Casual at GDFC
https://www.grimdarkfilthycasuals.com
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: Purifiers would at least contribute firepower. Crowe having zero range makes him wasted points of sitting there looking pretty.
Also at least Purifiers can get the 4++ on demand, though the use is questionable. Still better than Crowe though.
Crowe comes stock with 2+ armor, 4++ invul, and has Character protection... comparing his durability to a 5 man purifier squad is laughable.
"Zero range" is also incorrect ; he has a storm bolter, and 2+ ballistic skill... However contributing a few more storm bolter shots is not even his purpose so that point is just irrelevant...
Are you really judging HQ characters by their shooting ability?
Crowe is a really cheap and durable mortal wound hose for his points and can add a lot to other imperial factions in a small GK detachment
I'd give up trying to convince him. He doesn't seem to be the type of person that can change their mind, about anything. You could restate your valid reasons any number of times and it's just wasted air.
Check out my list building app for 40K and Fantasy:
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/576793.page
2020/03/20 03:39:05
Subject: Re:Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
undertow wrote: I'd give up trying to convince him. He doesn't seem to be the type of person that can change their mind, about anything. You could restate your valid reasons any number of times and it's just wasted air.
Yeah I hear ya, but it's less about trying to convince and more about correcting the straight-up misinformation being posted that seems to deliberately ignore empirical data. But I digress, you are right, it seems like debating with a Flat Earther at this point
2020/03/21 00:45:34
Subject: Re:Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
undertow wrote: I'd give up trying to convince him. He doesn't seem to be the type of person that can change their mind, about anything. You could restate your valid reasons any number of times and it's just wasted air.
Yeah I hear ya, but it's less about trying to convince and more about correcting the straight-up misinformation being posted that seems to deliberately ignore empirical data. But I digress, you are right, it seems like debating with a Flat Earther at this point
Your data is bad is the problem. Crowe has not been good since the start of the edition and still isn't good. A stupid short range Smite, a lousy weapon that doesn't hit anything we can't already hit, and no helpful aura makes him pointless, even as an allied...tool, which he doesn't really do.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/03/22 20:20:05
Subject: Re:Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
undertow wrote: I'd give up trying to convince him. He doesn't seem to be the type of person that can change their mind, about anything. You could restate your valid reasons any number of times and it's just wasted air.
Yeah I hear ya, but it's less about trying to convince and more about correcting the straight-up misinformation being posted that seems to deliberately ignore empirical data. But I digress, you are right, it seems like debating with a Flat Earther at this point
D6MW + 4 SB shots + potentially 10 attacks (Master Swordsman) + potentially 10 more attacks (heroic sacrifice), on a 2+/4++/character model that can cast 2 psychic powers + 1 DTW.....ONLY for 80 points...yeah he ain't terrible. Not by a long shot.
2020/03/22 21:40:35
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
Not been keeping up with the game after taking a break for about 18 months, and debating bringing back my scions + ordos militant army.
From reading around it sounds like Grey Knights have been given a bit of a boost, but am I right in understand that is mostly in the form of Tides which wouldn't be available to an allied detachment of grey knights?
With this in mind what would be the best way to go about a 750pt detachment of Grey knights, I used to run an outrider of GMDK with 3 units of Interceptors with one unit fleshed out to 10 men with falchions to make the most use of psybolt ammo and psychic onslaught. It's looking like this might still be optimal for my circumstances (2 battalions of scions for cp) but struggling to get my head round all the changes.
2020/03/22 21:57:42
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
ragnorack1 wrote: Not been keeping up with the game after taking a break for about 18 months, and debating bringing back my scions + ordos militant army.
From reading around it sounds like Grey Knights have been given a bit of a boost, but am I right in understand that is mostly in the form of Tides which wouldn't be available to an allied detachment of grey knights?
With this in mind what would be the best way to go about a 750pt detachment of Grey knights, I used to run an outrider of GMDK with 3 units of Interceptors with one unit fleshed out to 10 men with falchions to make the most use of psybolt ammo and psychic onslaught. It's looking like this might still be optimal for my circumstances (2 battalions of scions for cp) but struggling to get my head round all the changes.
Basically, Grey Knights are competitive if you are running them pure, because of tides, and character special rules. A lot of this has to do with smite spam and the way invulnerable saves now work, and the fact they get really nasty bonuses against heretic/daemon armies. Basically people are running Paladin bombs; just squads of pallies with HQ. It's very hard to counter, because you need to set up space marines armies specifically to do it and competitive players won't do this as to do so makes their forces very gimped against everything else in the meta.
Just started collecting mine. Draigo is still a no-go, far too overpriced. I'm not seeing many people using Dreadknights, I'm unsure of the reason for this. Maybe it's because it's simply better to have as many Paladins as possible.
2020/03/22 22:31:11
Subject: Re:Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
undertow wrote: I'd give up trying to convince him. He doesn't seem to be the type of person that can change their mind, about anything. You could restate your valid reasons any number of times and it's just wasted air.
Yeah I hear ya, but it's less about trying to convince and more about correcting the straight-up misinformation being posted that seems to deliberately ignore empirical data. But I digress, you are right, it seems like debating with a Flat Earther at this point
D6MW + 4 SB shots + potentially 10 attacks (Master Swordsman) + potentially 10 more attacks (heroic sacrifice), on a 2+/4++/character model that can cast 2 psychic powers + 1 DTW.....ONLY for 80 points...yeah he ain't terrible. Not by a long shot.
LOL let's actually break that down correctly:
1. D6 Smite at 3"
2. 2 or 4 Storm Bolter shots, let's not pretend he gets all of them
3. 10 attacks at S4 AP-, which the army already has in spades
4. Voldus is already casting more and comes with a better weapon, or you can take the one relic Librarians get.
A regular Champ with a relic at his points goes a lot further.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/03/22 22:50:28
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
ragnorack1 wrote: Not been keeping up with the game after taking a break for about 18 months, and debating bringing back my scions + ordos militant army.
From reading around it sounds like Grey Knights have been given a bit of a boost, but am I right in understand that is mostly in the form of Tides which wouldn't be available to an allied detachment of grey knights?
With this in mind what would be the best way to go about a 750pt detachment of Grey knights, I used to run an outrider of GMDK with 3 units of Interceptors with one unit fleshed out to 10 men with falchions to make the most use of psybolt ammo and psychic onslaught. It's looking like this might still be optimal for my circumstances (2 battalions of scions for cp) but struggling to get my head round all the changes.
Basically, Grey Knights are competitive if you are running them pure, because of tides, and character special rules. A lot of this has to do with smite spam and the way invulnerable saves now work, and the fact they get really nasty bonuses against heretic/daemon armies. Basically people are running Paladin bombs; just squads of pallies with HQ. It's very hard to counter, because you need to set up space marines armies specifically to do it and competitive players won't do this as to do so makes their forces very gimped against everything else in the meta.
Just started collecting mine. Draigo is still a no-go, far too overpriced. I'm not seeing many people using Dreadknights, I'm unsure of the reason for this. Maybe it's because it's simply better to have as many Paladins as possible.
Cheers for the advice, hmm looks like my force still won't be particularly competitive as I'd like to keep it mixed, glad they've made it better for GK players in general though.
I think I'm hoping in vain but I'm guessing the "Warp shaping" psychic power does nothing if you're not pure and can't be abused by an allied detachment for use of Tides for a turn?
2020/03/22 23:30:57
Subject: Re:Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
Warp Shaping does nothing, as nothing in your army has Tides. For your 750 pts, I’d actually suggest a supreme command detachment of 3 HQs and 10 paladins (all storm bolters). You could also go with a patrol (1 HQ, strike squad, paladins) or Vanguard (Chaplain, paladins, Ven Dread, apothecary). The “Paladin bomb” doesn’t really need the tides much, most of it’s durability and CC punch comes from stratagems and pshchic powers. Basically you buff it up, throw it at your opponent, and they can’t kill it. Would pair well with plasma scions deepstriking. The Pallies are 440 stock, so you still have room for character support in the 750 total range.
Depends on what you’re looking for, the supreme command option gives you a sprinkling of decent melee characters while the vanguard gives you twin-las+missile with re-roll damage (chaplain litany) from out of LOS every turn.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
2020/03/23 04:21:11
Subject: Re:Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
greyknight12 wrote: Warp Shaping does nothing, as nothing in your army has Tides. For your 750 pts, I’d actually suggest a supreme command detachment of 3 HQs and 10 paladins (all storm bolters). You could also go with a patrol (1 HQ, strike squad, paladins) or Vanguard (Chaplain, paladins, Ven Dread, apothecary). The “Paladin bomb” doesn’t really need the tides much, most of it’s durability and CC punch comes from stratagems and pshchic powers. Basically you buff it up, throw it at your opponent, and they can’t kill it. Would pair well with plasma scions deepstriking. The Pallies are 440 stock, so you still have room for character support in the 750 total range.
Depends on what you’re looking for, the supreme command option gives you a sprinkling of decent melee characters while the vanguard gives you twin-las+missile with re-roll damage (chaplain litany) from out of LOS every turn.
Just got my first Pally blob, an ebay special. They're kitted out well and unpainted, ten models. Considering buying a dreadknight simply because I like the model. I don't get the hate for them personally.
2020/03/23 05:08:21
Subject: Re:Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
greyknight12 wrote: Warp Shaping does nothing, as nothing in your army has Tides. For your 750 pts, I’d actually suggest a supreme command detachment of 3 HQs and 10 paladins (all storm bolters). You could also go with a patrol (1 HQ, strike squad, paladins) or Vanguard (Chaplain, paladins, Ven Dread, apothecary). The “Paladin bomb” doesn’t really need the tides much, most of it’s durability and CC punch comes from stratagems and pshchic powers. Basically you buff it up, throw it at your opponent, and they can’t kill it. Would pair well with plasma scions deepstriking. The Pallies are 440 stock, so you still have room for character support in the 750 total range.
Depends on what you’re looking for, the supreme command option gives you a sprinkling of decent melee characters while the vanguard gives you twin-las+missile with re-roll damage (chaplain litany) from out of LOS every turn.
Just got my first Pally blob, an ebay special. They're kitted out well and unpainted, ten models. Considering buying a dreadknight simply because I like the model. I don't get the hate for them personally.
The model looks slightly silly when you think about it. With some work they look really good though.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/03/23 06:42:56
Subject: Re:Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
greyknight12 wrote: Warp Shaping does nothing, as nothing in your army has Tides. For your 750 pts, I’d actually suggest a supreme command detachment of 3 HQs and 10 paladins (all storm bolters). You could also go with a patrol (1 HQ, strike squad, paladins) or Vanguard (Chaplain, paladins, Ven Dread, apothecary). The “Paladin bomb” doesn’t really need the tides much, most of it’s durability and CC punch comes from stratagems and pshchic powers. Basically you buff it up, throw it at your opponent, and they can’t kill it. Would pair well with plasma scions deepstriking. The Pallies are 440 stock, so you still have room for character support in the 750 total range.
Depends on what you’re looking for, the supreme command option gives you a sprinkling of decent melee characters while the vanguard gives you twin-las+missile with re-roll damage (chaplain litany) from out of LOS every turn.
Just got my first Pally blob, an ebay special. They're kitted out well and unpainted, ten models. Considering buying a dreadknight simply because I like the model. I don't get the hate for them personally.
The model looks slightly silly when you think about it. With some work they look really good though.
Well, I don't think they look sillier than Invicta warsuits. Well maybe a little but they're both pretty tongue-in-cheek.
2020/03/23 12:56:32
Subject: Re:Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
Most of dislike for the dreadknight (even the grandmaster version) comes from the increase in killyness that the Space Marine codex brought. If someone wants it to die, it will die (even with the nerfed IF doctrine). Being a vehicle has some mobility limitations too, and no character protections or easy way to negate screens with it’s big base. With the buff to GK from Tides, typically taking an infantry unit to do the same job ends up being a little better or you want more eggs in your super-buffed basket than a single dreadknight.
That being said, no one seems to have really tried to make them work post-PA and SM nerf, and you might find a perfect combo of strats/powers/tides/litanies to make them work really well. We don’t have anywhere close to the reps with what’s really a new army at this point to know what “the” build is (and there will probably be several). They used to be our best unit, after all.
Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
2020/03/23 13:09:54
Subject: Re:Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
greyknight12 wrote: Warp Shaping does nothing, as nothing in your army has Tides. For your 750 pts, I’d actually suggest a supreme command detachment of 3 HQs and 10 paladins (all storm bolters). You could also go with a patrol (1 HQ, strike squad, paladins) or Vanguard (Chaplain, paladins, Ven Dread, apothecary). The “Paladin bomb” doesn’t really need the tides much, most of it’s durability and CC punch comes from stratagems and pshchic powers. Basically you buff it up, throw it at your opponent, and they can’t kill it. Would pair well with plasma scions deepstriking. The Pallies are 440 stock, so you still have room for character support in the 750 total range.
Depends on what you’re looking for, the supreme command option gives you a sprinkling of decent melee characters while the vanguard gives you twin-las+missile with re-roll damage (chaplain litany) from out of LOS every turn.
Just got my first Pally blob, an ebay special. They're kitted out well and unpainted, ten models. Considering buying a dreadknight simply because I like the model. I don't get the hate for them personally.
The model looks slightly silly when you think about it. With some work they look really good though.
Well, I don't think they look sillier than Invicta warsuits. Well maybe a little but they're both pretty tongue-in-cheek.
Invictus Warsuits actually look like they protect their driver somewhat.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/03/23 22:29:29
Subject: Re:Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
greyknight12 wrote: Warp Shaping does nothing, as nothing in your army has Tides. For your 750 pts, I’d actually suggest a supreme command detachment of 3 HQs and 10 paladins (all storm bolters). You could also go with a patrol (1 HQ, strike squad, paladins) or Vanguard (Chaplain, paladins, Ven Dread, apothecary). The “Paladin bomb” doesn’t really need the tides much, most of it’s durability and CC punch comes from stratagems and pshchic powers. Basically you buff it up, throw it at your opponent, and they can’t kill it. Would pair well with plasma scions deepstriking. The Pallies are 440 stock, so you still have room for character support in the 750 total range.
Depends on what you’re looking for, the supreme command option gives you a sprinkling of decent melee characters while the vanguard gives you twin-las+missile with re-roll damage (chaplain litany) from out of LOS every turn.
Just got my first Pally blob, an ebay special. They're kitted out well and unpainted, ten models. Considering buying a dreadknight simply because I like the model. I don't get the hate for them personally.
The model looks slightly silly when you think about it. With some work they look really good though.
Well, I don't think they look sillier than Invicta warsuits. Well maybe a little but they're both pretty tongue-in-cheek.
Invictus Warsuits actually look like they protect their driver somewhat.
Yeah, they protect the legs and leave the torso and head completely exposed lol.
2020/03/24 03:27:17
Subject: Re:Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
+ HQ +
Brother-Captain [9 PL, 118pts]: 4: First to the Fray, Warlord, Gate of Infinity
. Nemesis Force Halberd: Nemesis Force Halberd
. Psycannon: Psycannon (Terminator)
Well, it appears that the top ranked GK lists look all the same.
With two battalions of 3x5 Strikes each, two big Paladin units (often one with four heavy weapons), Apothecary and 4 or 5 characters like 1 or 2 Librarians, Chaplain, Brother Captain and Voldus, Stern or Draigo.
One can see differences in the equipment of Strikes (one or no heavy weapon) and the distribution of powers among the units. In view of the latter, the powers taken seems to be consensus but not who gets which power.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
I had an enjoyable game against Guard the other day. I was running a basic double Paladin army, he had 3x Artillery, 7 or so Leman Russ tanks, a group of Bullgrin, Tempestus plasma in a Valkyrie, and a smattering of infantry.
He was able to zone me out of his deployment zone for the entire game while his artillery and aggressive elements kept me back in mine. I was able to keep the points close until the last couple turns when I was basically tabled. Guard are still strong, and have the tools to deal with the typical 'stay out of LOS' play style of the Paladins.
2020/03/24 13:43:21
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
greyknight12 wrote: Most of dislike for the dreadknight (even the grandmaster version) comes from the increase in killyness that the Space Marine codex brought. If someone wants it to die, it will die (even with the nerfed IF doctrine). Being a vehicle has some mobility limitations too, and no character protections or easy way to negate screens with it’s big base. With the buff to GK from Tides, typically taking an infantry unit to do the same job ends up being a little better or you want more eggs in your super-buffed basket than a single dreadknight.
That being said, no one seems to have really tried to make them work post-PA and SM nerf, and you might find a perfect combo of strats/powers/tides/litanies to make them work really well. We don’t have anywhere close to the reps with what’s really a new army at this point to know what “the” build is (and there will probably be several). They used to be our best unit, after all.
Honestly, I still really like my GMDNKs. Hold them in the teleportarium till turn 2/3 when the super doctrines wear off. I really like that they can operate independently of any stratagems, put out good amounts of dakka and are also beatsticks in combat. They're also surprisingly durable with the 3++.
I'm not saying they're top top tier competitive, but they can be effective on the tabletop still.
Chief Filthy Casual at GDFC
https://www.grimdarkfilthycasuals.com
Well, before the new rules and stratagems, I'd usually played 2 GMDKNs deep striking in round 2.
They were a good add-on to a mediocre army.
But now as the army got new strength, GMDKNs are no longer a must have, just an add-on in friendly games.
Former moderator 40kOnline
Lanchester's square law - please obey in list building!
Illumini: "And thank you for not finishing your post with a "" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever."
wuestenfux wrote: Well, before the new rules and stratagems, I'd usually played 2 GMDKNs deep striking in round 2.
They were a good add-on to a mediocre army.
But now as the army got new strength, GMDKNs are no longer a must have, just an add-on in friendly games.
Yup, pretty much this.
Chief Filthy Casual at GDFC
https://www.grimdarkfilthycasuals.com
If anyone is interested, we put together a very educational and insightful battle rep between Grey Knights and Space Wolves. Very tactical and pretty competitive matchup.
Xenos Inquisitor gets back easy CP, but that's about it. I wanted to use Karamazov but they never gave his Orbital Bombardments back. He was cool for that.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/04/02 21:42:05
Subject: Grey Knights Tactica: The Psychics Awaken!
wuestenfux wrote: Well, before the new rules and stratagems, I'd usually played 2 GMDKNs deep striking in round 2.
They were a good add-on to a mediocre army.
But now as the army got new strength, GMDKNs are no longer a must have, just an add-on in friendly games.
Yup, pretty much this.
If they had also received buffs from Tide of convergence, that is be able to deliver:
- 6 S8 AP-1 D3 shots and
- 12 S5 AP0 Dd3+1 shots
Do you think they would be a competitive alternative to a Paladin bomb. Or at least instead of the second Paladin bomb.
" I'm sorry, but after 7200 's that has to be the most annoying sign-off ever." 
