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Hi people ! I am interested at giving AoS a second try (I haven't played since the first year it came out), since, if the LVO results are truthfull, seems to be a waaaaayyyy more balanced game than 40k at the moment.

So the big question is, which faction to choose ?

I am really interested by the chaos factions, but I stay open to other possibilities.

On one hand, I'd like something with some speed, but also resilient (so of course both the Hedonites of Slaanesh and the Maggotkin of Nurgle are out).
I am also a big hobbyist. I enjoy painting stunning models, but with a relatively low count (like everyone, I don't have much free time).
The Slaves of Darkness army seem interesting, especially with their new sculpts.
I am also interested to the disciples of Tzeentch (Kairos is one hell of a model).

What would you recommend me to start (it can be something unrelated to the Chaos Alliance).

All chaos can be fast actually, you just need to build for that, yes the includes Nurgle, heck they have speed buffs and flying units.

Its just most people want to min/max points per damage and then add utility if they can, so you don't see a lot of the faster nurgle armies. Something that you can do is BoC playing the MoN book, you now have 20" moving Beastmen then charging (not joking) with all the nurgle buffs.

Same with Khorne, they can have units move multiple times, or fight after they die.

You might want to also look at Khorne, they can have some very tough but still killy and fast units, Bloodhtirsters, Deamon Princes, Juggernauts, etc..


But in reality, go for the models you like the looks of and like to paint, b.c you will see them every game, if you like DoT play them.

Well a fast, chaos, low model count army that does well right now is Slaanesh. Whilst you mention balance is more even that is true and its clear that GW has aimed for AoS to have a much broader spread of factions than "MARINES MARINES MARINES".

That said there are still some powerpoints - Slaanesh is one of them with the way their depravity generates from their leaders. Three keepers and some basic infantry backed up with one or two more keepers to summon is one of the "power" builds at present.

That said honestly with the 2.0 system there aren't any outright "bad" armies. Some are ahead of the curve and some behind; but broadly speaking they are at least operating the same. Seraphon (lizardmen) is still without a Tome, but they are likely to see one in the next month or so (GW already teased a reveal of their terrain feature in the LVO reveal event).


I second Amishprn's view - go for the models and army you love because you'll spend hours building and painting before they hit the table. Plus, as I noted, basically every faction is playable and is now (almost all) running 2.0 (its just those seraphon dragging their scaled heels). There's also a new "High elf" themed army coming out in spring (LVO again revealed some details about them).

I will warn you; Tzeentch is shaping up to be as bad in AoS as Marines are. BUT that is a worst case scenario, so if you are looking for better balance than 40k AoS certainly will be a step up.

But to answer your question, Slaves to Darkness will serve your needs nicely. They have a good mix of units and builds, plus you can always change your mind later and use the units in a Mono-God army.

You like to show stuff off? Do you care about winning every game? If yes followed by no, get Archaon, 3 boxes of Varanguard, a Gaunt Summoner and a 40-60pt Endless spell (40 if you want the one on disc, 60 if you take the cheaper gaunt on foot). Then a box of pink horrors and two boxes of blue/brimstone for summoning/split and you’re good with a showy army where every model is either from free summoning or it’s basically a hero.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I will warn you; Tzeentch is shaping up to be as bad in AoS as Marines are.

Do you mean that they are a WAAC army ?

And thank you all for your time. I will play a little with battlescribe and post an army list in the relevant forum and post a link here for further discussion.

Link : https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/784915.page#10700350

 Khornate25 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I will warn you; Tzeentch is shaping up to be as bad in AoS as Marines are.

Do you mean that they are a WAAC army ?

And thank you all for your time. I will play a little with battlescribe and post an army list in the relevant forum and post a link here for further discussion.

The book just dropped and has some oppressively powerful options. Some of which might get adjusted in the initial faq but right now they seem pretty insane.

Chaos is in a good spot where one way or another you can make your favourite toys work well between Slaves, Beasts, God books and the allying together of them.

Yeah they will get a nice faq just like how StD did

Take a look at Ogor Mawtribes. Low model count army with nice big models for conversions and painting. Each model is resilient with multiple wounds and several ways to heal. They are also surprisingly fast with their new rules.

 Eldarain wrote:

 Khornate25 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I will warn you; Tzeentch is shaping up to be as bad in AoS as Marines are.

Do you mean that they are a WAAC army ?

And thank you all for your time. I will play a little with battlescribe and post an army list in the relevant forum and post a link here for further discussion.

The book just dropped and has some oppressively powerful options. Some of which might get adjusted in the initial faq but right now they seem pretty insane.

Chaos is in a good spot where one way or another you can make your favourite toys work well between Slaves, Beasts, God books and the allying together of them.

Assuming Tzeentch gets a reasonable FAQ (by no means a certainty!) they will drop to -merely- tier 1 instead of being the clear best army in the game. If someone wants to be safe in their army choice being strong and remaining so in the foreseeable future I would highly recommend them. It also means one can play around with sub-par options and builds as much as they like without needing to be concerned with a fluffy or theme list being too weak to be viable.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:

 Khornate25 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I will warn you; Tzeentch is shaping up to be as bad in AoS as Marines are.

Do you mean that they are a WAAC army ?

And thank you all for your time. I will play a little with battlescribe and post an army list in the relevant forum and post a link here for further discussion.

The book just dropped and has some oppressively powerful options. Some of which might get adjusted in the initial faq but right now they seem pretty insane.

Chaos is in a good spot where one way or another you can make your favourite toys work well between Slaves, Beasts, God books and the allying together of them.

Assuming Tzeentch gets a reasonable FAQ (by no means a certainty!) they will drop to -merely- tier 1 instead of being the clear best army in the game. If someone wants to be safe in their army choice being strong and remaining so in the foreseeable future I would highly recommend them. It also means one can play around with sub-par options and builds as much as they like without needing to be concerned with a fluffy or theme list being too weak to be viable.

They could get the STD faq and the full army got nerf, even the weak things like Varanguard lol

Is tzeentch REALLY that good right now? I mean, I’m considering the Warpflame Congregation/Changehost thing w/3 units of Flamers, 2 exalted, 3 units of Screamers, LoC, Kairos and a Gaunt Summoner, and reading all this I’m thinking it’s going to lead to “thanks, GG” the second I set it on the table. And yes, I basically own ALL of that from the first book (down a couple flamers because I sold my metals and didn’t replace w/plastic yet).

Ogors are very nice. Fast to collect, asemble and paint. Very great varians within the book. Nice convesion opertunaties.

They are not very resilient, but having a lot of wounds is a defence in it self. They move upfield fast. And they deal a lot of damage. The tricks that are good vs hordes does not work on your, because you have a low model count.

The armybook has some cringing things it it, but they are only minor. (Like seemingly the undertribe is suppose to make cannons great. But cannons are bad. But what the undertribe really does is make leadbelchers good. There are several things like that. But all in all a solid book.)

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Is tzeentch REALLY that good right now? I mean, I’m considering the Warpflame Congregation/Changehost thing w/3 units of Flamers, 2 exalted, 3 units of Screamers, LoC, Kairos and a Gaunt Summoner, and reading all this I’m thinking it’s going to lead to “thanks, GG” the second I set it on the table. And yes, I basically own ALL of that from the first book (down a couple flamers because I sold my metals and didn’t replace w/plastic yet).

Yeah, The changehost is very very powerful. The Eternal Conflagration or Host Duplicitous change host 1-drop list allows for you to dictate the battle early on, and deal a ton of damage. Coupled with the guaranteed first turn, and then the allegiance abilities like DD and the agendas allow for you to dominate the game pretty early on.

 Sasori wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Is tzeentch REALLY that good right now? I mean, I’m considering the Warpflame Congregation/Changehost thing w/3 units of Flamers, 2 exalted, 3 units of Screamers, LoC, Kairos and a Gaunt Summoner, and reading all this I’m thinking it’s going to lead to “thanks, GG” the second I set it on the table. And yes, I basically own ALL of that from the first book (down a couple flamers because I sold my metals and didn’t replace w/plastic yet).

Yeah, The changehost is very very powerful. The Eternal Conflagration or Host Duplicitous change host 1-drop list allows for you to dictate the battle early on, and deal a ton of damage. Coupled with the guaranteed first turn, and then the allegiance abilities like DD and the agendas allow for you to dominate the game pretty early on.

I think the 2 week FAQ will rein it in, but I’m ever the optimist.

 nels1031 wrote:

 Sasori wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Is tzeentch REALLY that good right now? I mean, I’m considering the Warpflame Congregation/Changehost thing w/3 units of Flamers, 2 exalted, 3 units of Screamers, LoC, Kairos and a Gaunt Summoner, and reading all this I’m thinking it’s going to lead to “thanks, GG” the second I set it on the table. And yes, I basically own ALL of that from the first book (down a couple flamers because I sold my metals and didn’t replace w/plastic yet).

Yeah, The changehost is very very powerful. The Eternal Conflagration or Host Duplicitous change host 1-drop list allows for you to dictate the battle early on, and deal a ton of damage. Coupled with the guaranteed first turn, and then the allegiance abilities like DD and the agendas allow for you to dominate the game pretty early on.

I think the 2 week FAQ will rein it in, but I’m ever the optimist.

I think if they change it back to something like a 3+ being required for each teleport, and a small price increase it might be enough to bump it down to just tier 1. It's hard to tell, as Tzeentch overall has a very strong book now with very few dud options.

Honestly, I figured the whole 9 Destiny Dice and Kairos would be the strongest bit of the book. I know it was in the old book too, but getting that kind of control over the game is nasty.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:

 Khornate25 wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I will warn you; Tzeentch is shaping up to be as bad in AoS as Marines are.

Do you mean that they are a WAAC army ?

And thank you all for your time. I will play a little with battlescribe and post an army list in the relevant forum and post a link here for further discussion.

The book just dropped and has some oppressively powerful options. Some of which might get adjusted in the initial faq but right now they seem pretty insane.

Chaos is in a good spot where one way or another you can make your favourite toys work well between Slaves, Beasts, God books and the allying together of them.

Assuming Tzeentch gets a reasonable FAQ (by no means a certainty!) they will drop to -merely- tier 1 instead of being the clear best army in the game. If someone wants to be safe in their army choice being strong and remaining so in the foreseeable future I would highly recommend them. It also means one can play around with sub-par options and builds as much as they like without needing to be concerned with a fluffy or theme list being too weak to be viable.

They could get the STD faq and the full army got nerf, even the weak things like Varanguard lol

STD were barely touched at all. Most of the changes were just fixing what was a pretty obvious typo allowing units to take mixed weapons.

Except slaughtering the Varanguard battalion.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Honestly, I figured the whole 9 Destiny Dice and Kairos would be the strongest bit of the book. I know it was in the old book too, but getting that kind of control over the game is nasty.

The Fate Dice are absolutely the strongest thing in the book, they served (well) for some time as the sole allegiance ability. Pile summoning and fated quests on top of that things are already a recipe for an abusive battletome before units even come into the picture!

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 timetowaste85 wrote:
Honestly, I figured the whole 9 Destiny Dice and Kairos would be the strongest bit of the book. I know it was in the old book too, but getting that kind of control over the game is nasty.

The Fate Dice are absolutely the strongest thing in the book, they served (well) for some time as the sole allegiance ability. Pile summoning and fated quests on top of that things are already a recipe for an abusive battletome before units even come into the picture!

Keep in mind, that Destiny Dice did get nerfed in the new book, since you now require 2 dice for any roll that requires 2, when you only had to change one roll before. it is a pretty substantial nerf but it's still a strong ability. Summoning was in the book before (FAQ), but Tzeentch summoning is really a pretty minor factor, it's a small bonus and by no means a huge deal unless you are taking the Guild of Summoners, which, IMO is not that great as multiple LoCs really isn't that good compared to other greater daemons or summons. Agendas are really good and a nice bonus.

It's when you add all that, and the fact that most of the warscrolls are actually good, plus the subfaction abilities that it really comes together. The changehost that currently amps everything up to the broken level, though there is also a lot of complaints about the Hosts Duplicitous no retreat ability which is very strong.

I would argue that DD is not the strongest ability in the book, but it does tie everything together really well.

I am reasonably sure that rule is just clarifying that if you want to replace both dice in a charge roll you need to spend two dice, and that spending one will only replace one.

As for summoning, I suppose the lists I encounter must summon more than those you do because it is quite advantageous. Doubly so with teleport-then-summon via changehost.

The new locus is awesome too, almost forgot about that.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I am reasonably sure that rule is just clarifying that if you want to replace both dice in a charge roll you need to spend two dice, and that spending one will only replace one.

As for summoning, I suppose the lists I encounter must summon more than those you do because it is quite advantageous. Doubly so with teleport-then-summon via changehost.

The new locus is awesome too, almost forgot about that.

The new rule is very explicit in DD, you must use two dice for any roll that requires them, there is no room for interpretation at all.

To get any type of substantial summoning, you have to specifically gear your list for mass spellcasts, above and beyond what you would use in a normal list. Most lists (Including Changehost) will have about 9 max casts available per turn, of which 6ish are generated by heros and the other 3 by units like Kairic Acolytes and Pink Horrors. Unit casters can only cast if they have more than 9 models, which means past the first turn it is very rare that pinks will be casting. Spells also cannot be unbound for you to gain fate points.

On average, unless the list is designed for fate points and mass casts, you are likely only generating 6ish fatepoints(Usually less) past the first turn. If you are not unbinding your opponents spells (Which in most cases would be a mistake) you might get a few more. This doesn't even take into account how easy our spellcasting heros go down, and take a huge chunk of the spellcasting with us.

My games so far fate point summoning has been a very minor bonus, I may summon some blue horrors for objectives at the end of turn two, or if things have gone really well I may get one unit of pink horrors turn 3. Other than that there is not very much summoning going on. When I am running eternal conflagration I am more inclined to try to get another exalted flamer out early.

The Locus of change seems strong on paper, but it's also pretty minor. It helps our survival a little bit more on units like the Loc, and horrors if you can get them all in the bubble. Other than that, most of our demon units are tissue paper in close combat so it's a minor benefit.

A free 20-wound unit on round two or 50-wound unit on round three would be a significant advantage for me! As for the 2d6, the FAQ will probably address it. A considerable nerf if so.

EDIT: Just checked the old battletome; the new rule is just a shortened version of the description used for the old rule which is worded almost identically. I think if they meant to change fate dice in such a considerable way they would have rewritten it much more clearly rather than editing a sentence that once meant one thing to instead mean the exact opposite.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
A free 20-wound unit on round two or 50-wound unit on round three would be a significant advantage for me! As for the 2d6, the FAQ will probably address it. A considerable nerf if so.

For DD, there is nothing to address. The rule says "If you want to replace a 2D6 roll, you must spend 2 destiny dice." There is no ambiguity. it's a pretty big nerf, but justifiable so with all the other stuff we got, such as agendas and sub-factions. If they had kept the old DD method, we would be even more over the top.

The blue horrors sounds great in theory, but in practice it is a magnitude weaker than the pink horrors. You lose out on the ability to bring them back with Fold reality, the Hornblower for battleshock, spell casting, FNP and 30 more wounds. It's good for holding a back objective, but it goes down quick since damage continues to spill among the splits, and unless you use a DD the unit is going to run very quickly.

The pink horror summoning is strong, but a 200 point unit in turn 3 (which is a very good scenario) is really on the small side of summoning armies. It's really a garnish, and many times I don't even reach that with my other lists that I bring. To me, that's fine, summoning really shouldn't be the focus unless you are specifically aiming for it.

Hm, I really don't think the rule works that way. It definitely reads to me as saying that you can spend one dice to replace a single dice and if you want to replace multiple dice you must spend multiple dice.

As for summoning, maybe we have different play styles, or different metas, or something. Because getting those free units would be something I could capitalize on for much more benefit than being written off as a garnish.

Also, at 200 points being used to represent how much pink horrors are actually worth, good one!

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Hm, I really don't think the rule works that way. It definitely reads to me as saying that you can spend one dice to replace a single dice and if you want to replace multiple dice you must spend multiple dice.

As for summoning, maybe we have different play styles, or different metas, or something. Because getting those free units would be something I could capitalize on for much more benefit than being written off as a garnish.

Also, at 200 points being used to represent how much pink horrors are actually worth, good one!

I think it's pretty unambiguous, and I haven't seen anyone play it differently personally, but I am one of two DoT players locally (For the moment). TGA also seems to agree on the wording being you must at this point as well. If they FAQ'd it the other way I'd be shocked, as that would be a significant boost in power.

The Free units are really just a bonus on top of several layers of much stronger mechanics. DD, Agendas, Coven bonus' and Tzeentch Spellcasting are all much stronger mechanics, hence why I call it a garnish. Fate points take a long longer to generate than other summoning mechanics and can be really fickle. It can end up being strong, but I don't count on summoning for anything critical, since I have so many more reliable and strong mechanics to work with. If I am summoning 10 pinks on turn 3, there is a good chance I've likely secured the win anyway.

Yeah, pink horrors are probably worth closer to 220 points. Clanrats get 200 points per 40 wounds, so it's not like Pinks are super undercosted. Depending on how the FAQ shakes out with DD and battleshock, and if they change anything with Fold Reality, they may even become correctly costed at 200.

I’m with 9th. I’ve never read that to mean if you’re rolling something that takes 2D6 you MUST spend 2 DD. Rather if you want a specific roll you can’t use one DD to count as both. They were just clearing it up so nobody could spend one die and say it counts for both. Each die you want to replace has to spend a DD. One DD can’t replace multiple dice. I think you’re the one misinterpreting it.

 timetowaste85 wrote:
I’m with 9th. I’ve never read that to mean if you’re rolling something that takes 2D6 you MUST spend 2 DD. Rather if you want a specific roll you can’t use one DD to count as both. They were just clearing it up so nobody could spend one die and say it counts for both. Each die you want to replace has to spend a DD. One DD can’t replace multiple dice. I think you’re the one misinterpreting it.

I don't see how I am misinterpreting it. The previous tome explicitly pointed out that you could change a single roll in 2D6 and how to do it. This tome the rule explicitly says that you must use 2 destiny dice if you want to replace a 2D6 roll.

No, it says if you want to replace a 2D6 roll (aka the WHOLE roll), you use 2 destiny dice. It’s explicitly telling you that one DD can’t be used to replace a whole 2D6. And it tells you that you can use “one or more”. Want to replace a full 2D6? Spend 2 DD. Want to only control one die? Spend one DD.