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Thank God for Heresy Miniatures then, hey?

I can totally see and respect why people prefer oldcromunda fluff and aesthetics.

But TBH I have yet to find someone that thinks like that in real life. Everyone I know loves all the new stuff. The oldcromunda aesthetic is just too 80. Its a respectable niche of course but... the 80's were 40 years ago . Personally, I love the new designs (Ok not all of them) and having things like a chemical house that has zombie archers feels completely proper for what I expect of the "freakshow" version of the Imperium.

Some of the mechas of the Van Saar are a little over the top because they feel too much like military grade equipement that even the adeptus mechanicus would droll about. But everything else? Orlocks, Goliaths, Cawdor, Escher, etc... all have industrial style of equipement or esotheric stuff that isn't worth it logistically for military doctrine. But that looks super cool in the context of necromunda.

There's a point where you have to just sit back and wonder if there is even a long-range plan that GW has for Necromunda.

We've seen... Something, and they say they do, but when you see the idea hit the pavement, and just explode like a watermelon- You are just left shaking your head.

The funniest-est thing here is that the common, run-of-the-mill rabble gangs, and some shop stalls are getting across the board praise.

You are already paying top dollar for the boxes with 6 figures (2 of the same sprues.) and Necromunda is already hard to get,
I'm not seeing anything to justify the ridiculous changes in turning the gangs into something other than they are/ were.

They're not fun, they're not interesting, and if anything, they take the game into a whole wrong trail then should be honestly taken.

The fish-folk Delaques are just the latest gaff to emerge.

 Grot 6 wrote:
There's a point where you have to just sit back and wonder if there is even a long-range plan that GW has for Necromunda.

It sure seemed like they did. When this all started they talked about how there was so much potential beyond Hive Primus, talking about Secondus, the 'Three Sisters', Gothruls’s Needle and the Eye of Selene. Instead we're on our 3rd and in some cases 4th run on the same original 6 gangs, only now a few of them hold no resemblance to what they were in the first place (fish-alien gestalt intelligence people praying to not-Cthulhu... thanks GW ).

But I should stop talking about this. The last time I brought up the wasted potential of Newcromunda someone came along and accused me of never having played the game. Didn't make any sense then. Makes even less sense now, but still.

 Galas wrote:
I can totally see and respect why people prefer oldcromunda fluff and aesthetics.

But TBH I have yet to find someone that thinks like that in real life. Everyone I know loves all the new stuff. The oldcromunda aesthetic is just too 80. Its a respectable niche of course but... the 80's were 40 years ago . Personally, I love the new designs (Ok not all of them) and having things like a chemical house that has zombie archers feels completely proper for what I expect of the "freakshow" version of the Imperium.

Some of the mechas of the Van Saar are a little over the top because they feel too much like military grade equipment that even the adeptus mechanicus would droll about. But everything else? Orlocks, Goliaths, Cawdor, Escher, etc... all have industrial style of equipement or esotheric stuff that isn't worth it logistically for military doctrine. But that looks super cool in the context of necromunda.

I don't think that's the case.
It's more the case that the game becomes more unplayable with some of these changes to the Games Meta.
Updated changes is one thing, but when you are showing up with weapons and equipment that have never been seen before- Even in 40K, you are not making a gang fight skirmish game, you are making a new game system that doesn't have anything to do with 40k, nor the universe in which it is supposed to be at.

Look at a tale of the tape with these gangs, right now, and you'll see what I'm trying to come across with.

You have one gang with robots and techno rigs- Then you have one who is basic no frills axes, pistols, and a lot of massed figures on the table... Had those been already in-game, it would have been acceptable- even for GW.

Some of this stuff, being Forge World only- and limited in accessibility- You have a game that becomes unplayable. That's another issue that I don't even know how to talk about. It just plain sucks.

45-50 dollars a box for a base gang already sits ill with people, now you got some that can't even be accessed, at "GW Prices."

When I see ogryn slaves vs khorne canibals vs hydraulic hammer goliats vs cawdor vs escher archers I see more 40k than watching spandex oldcromunda gangs fighting agaisnt oldcromunda goliahts, TBH.

But as I said, everyone has their own tastes. My only problem with newcromunda is not the miniatures or fluff that I really enjoy but the mess of rules releases and inconsistent of those rules.

But for that I go the jack sparrow route.

I’m gonna level with folk.

Necromunda being back in print, and well supported? Is objectively a GOOD thing.

By all means, prefer previous rules and previous models. That’s your preference, and shouldn’t be uncool to anyone.

But the simple fact it exists again, and comes with a plethora of books, terrain and models? You can’t whack that. At all.

Because I’m a dirty slag when it comes to Necromunda, I do of course own every book for its latest iteration. I have various FW models and plastics. I also have a growing collection of terrain.

The models and terrain? Can be easily ported to older editions. No bother at all. Indeed whilst aesthetics vary, with the vast majority of gang models being plastic, they’re easier and more straight forward to convert than ever before.

The rules? I still prefer the original “never ending” campaign, where things keep rumbling on and on. Yet the different campaigns spread across different books? They’re at my laziest some shake’n’bake alternatives. At my most creative? Inspiration for me to work from as the base elements of something truly unique (though I don’t guarantee my home brew will be good!)

Get it whilst it’s hot. Because if everyone gets their arse in their hands because “it’s not what I grew up with”? It’s likely to go away again.

It’s Necromunda. It’s here. Make from the retail offerings what you bloody well will.

Not gonna lie, despite not playing new Necro ever I was initially a bit upset to see that Van Saars aren't tooled up with boltguns anymore (presumably because boltguns are too low tech).

Old Necromunda miniatures go for crazy prices on eBay so to someone they are still very valuable. Personally I find that theres some cracking sculpts in the old days but I love the new sculpts too... I also been tempted by Heresy delaques for many years now.

Theres good and bad minis every edition but all things considered I think GW is doing a good job releasing these in nice plastic box sets so its widely available to the majority and actually affordable.
I'm very much interested in getting most of the gangs and GW efforts in bringing Necromunda to the spotlight are appreciated.

Sure not all is roses and yes it is very difficult for me to try to figure out the rules, books, cards and were to get them... actually more pricy than getting the miniatures themselves.
Ideally they should calm down with rules updates and book releases, is it really necessary 1 house book per clan?

1 rulebook with all clan rules and 1 campaign book that evolves with time would be the sweet spot for what is one skirmish game.
As it stands I rather invest in the minis since im lucky enough to have old books and rules and soon to get into solo play with other games.

Necromunda can be a great sandbox RPG 40k orientated game but GW needs to simplify and avoid the 40k and AoS formula rules bloat approach. Problem is books sell well

I dont think the problem is fleshing out more gangs, the universe is so rich that they have literally infinite material to explore. Its the way they go about selling the updates or new rules that turns me off.

“… Get it whilst it’s hot. Because if everyone gets their arse in their hands because “it’s not what I grew up with”? It’s likely to go away again…”

And that would be just fine too.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m gonna level with folk.

Necromunda being back in print, and well supported? Is objectively a GOOD thing.

Yep thats a big thing. I can take weird monsters with ribbons if we get things like Jotunn brutes.
Thinking about all these kits I think the only really ugly one is the chaos...

So yes keep on churning kits.

On the subject of a long range plan I think there WAS one and then it changed. Several times.

I think in part it changed because it grew bigger and instead of just a core book suddenly GW could see potential to make faction books. The game was and is fleshing out and honestly looking back whilst the early edition was a golden age; this new edition is a whole separate golden age of its own in terms of expanding the game in almost all directions.

Slower releases I think is in part because FW wound up running all the specialist games and didn't have the capacity to keep up with all of them without expanding their team and internal resources. Which I think have hit a brick wall this last year or two as Corona also hit everything else and thus likely mean that GW's factory production time was more limited.




Fleshing things out might also be why some factions changed in lore. They gave GW more room to do more than just "here's a group who run around in the muck wearing trenchcoats" and I think going deeper meant going wider in terms of diversity of backgrounds. It gives GW more angles and some neat ways to add unique flare to factions. As we branch out from core gangers (which are already really diverse) we should see more. Escher I'd wager should get more monsters/beasties; Goliath more roided up gangers and mutants etc...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Grot 6 wrote:
There's a point where you have to just sit back and wonder if there is even a long-range plan that GW has for Necromunda.

It sure seemed like they did. When this all started they talked about how there was so much potential beyond Hive Primus, talking about Secondus, the 'Three Sisters', Gothruls’s Needle and the Eye of Selene. Instead we're on our 3rd and in some cases 4th run on the same original 6 gangs, only now a few of them hold no resemblance to what they were in the first place (fish-alien gestalt intelligence people praying to not-Cthulhu... thanks GW ).

But I should stop talking about this. The last time I brought up the wasted potential of Newcromunda someone came along and accused me of never having played the game. Didn't make any sense then. Makes even less sense now, but still.

Which gangs is on his fourth round?
But agreed with your main point. I think it would have been much better to only release two kits for each house (original one and the second one being juves and more weapons option. I just dont see what prospects and these weird heroes brings to the game besides flanderisation), and release more new gangs (even though im not too thrilled with the corpse grinders)

 streetsamurai wrote:
Which gangs is on his fourth round?

It's a "technically" thing, but Goliath and Escher. Had rules in the first Newcromunda book, then the Gang War books, then Gangs of the Underhive and then their respective house books. On the other hand, the Gestalt-Intelligence-Alien-Worshipping-Kinda-Fish-People-Once-Known-as-Delaques are only on their second go around, having missed out on a Hive Book... unless there are Delaque rules in the newer boxed set, in which case it's 3 for them (and 5 fore Escher! ).

 streetsamurai wrote:
But agreed with your main point. I think it would have been much better to only release two kits for each house (original one and the second one being juves and more weapons option. I just dont see what prospects and these weird heroes brings to the game besides flanderisation), and release more new gangs (even though im not too thrilled with the corpse grinders)

The lack of Juves has been a big problem right from the start. It's an essential building block of a gang, and yet they've basically left them out in the cold. It's weird.

Honestly I'm ambivalent about the "changes" to Delaque. For myself at least, it's filling in stuff that was either A) omitted in OG Necro or B) made up for this release.

Which is ok by me.

But I totally understand that it may be jarring or weird for some.

Now that I actually have the Nacht-Guhl box I really like it. To me they feel like the assassins I remember.
Piscean Spectre is a very cool model(albeit a PITA to assemble) and want to get another box just to change the pose. Now it IS a little far-fetched as to how they are a thing but the entirety of the 40k universe is insane so I guess they're normal?

I'm more disappointed about the lack of open coat for Delqua despite artwork and having the chance to make a 2nd kit with more sprue space.

Chopstick wrote:
I'm more disappointed about the lack of open coat for Delqua despite artwork and having the chance to make a 2nd kit with more sprue space.

Yes bare chests are needed, the iconic Delaque ganger. at least there are a couple female torsos/heads to show some differentiation in origin. Given the ambiguous-ness of the further defined lore its welcome. Should one really be able to tell its anything other than a faceless Delaque ganger ?

I would be so down for Baldy to be a FW character or something like that.

 Galas wrote:
The oldcromunda aesthetic is just too 80. Its a respectable niche of course but... the 80's were 40 years ago .

Did you just try to call off the 80s just because some dumb calendar said so? You don't just call off the 80s, man! The 80s ain't over until I say they're over. And they ain't over.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
But the simple fact it exists again, and comes with a plethora of books, terrain and models? You can’t whack that. At all.

I can agree with a good bit of what you said, but this? You'd better believe that I can whack the plethora of books. Incrementally built, shoddily designed rules have been a staple for GW forever, but Necromunda takes the cake. The rules design and distribution model GW chose for Necromunda is the number one reason why I can't get into the game. Even if I could be bothered to figure out which rules I need, I don't fancy spending two, three, four times the money on books that I do on miniatures, only to see those books invalidated within a year or two.

 Galas wrote:
When I see ogryn slaves vs khorne canibals vs hydraulic hammer goliats vs cawdor vs escher archers I see more 40k than watching spandex oldcromunda gangs fighting agaisnt oldcromunda goliahts, TBH.

...what spandex oldcromunda gangs? Van Saar's stillsuits?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The lack of Juves has been a big problem right from the start. It's an essential building block of a gang, and yet they've basically left them out in the cold. It's weird.

Juves have sort of vanished, the core books for the different gangs don't have them any more, instead they have specific house brand lower ranking ganger models. I think the concept of a juve is one that has stuck, but right now they aren't really a thing. It might be we see them return, GW has just done a generic "no name people" boxed set and that could lead into them getting Juves as no-name low rankers.

 Overread wrote:
Juves have sort of vanished, the core books for the different gangs don't have them any more, instead they have specific house brand lower ranking ganger models.

No they haven't...? They're still there. What are you talking about???

Just because they're called Shadows, Bonepickers, Zealots, Bullies, Subteks, Little Sisters and Greenhorns doesn't change the fact that they are Juves. They even have "(Juve)" next to their name.

For some reason I wound up looking at the wild-runners (prospects) and missed the "little sisters"

For juves it's easy to see why they're not a priority.

First off they need special models. The sculptors did a fantastic job on the original models, they look young, not just like shorter adults. I remember noticing how one guy had trouble getting his fingers around the grip of his SMG.

This was easier in the days of metal models and blisters but now would need 6-8 additional plastic kits. A simpler answer would have been putting 1 juve in each of the original box sets but that ship has sailed.

And then there's the issue of child soldiers. Yes it's properly grimdark. Yes it is less grimdark than having your arm lopped off to install a chainsaw. But unlike cyber gladiators or zombie archers child soldiers are a real world problem and I think most of us prefer our grimdark a bit removed from reality.

If you want Juves/Prospects/cannon fodder/whatever the Outcasts might do the job for some gangs.



It's easy to see a Goliath, Orlock, Delaque and Cawdor dude in there.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Instead we're on our 3rd and in some cases 4th run on the same original 6 gangs

The worst offenders are Goliath and Eschere having 5 books with 5 different instructions on how to make their gangs. Yes, 5! 2017 Underhive, 2017 Gang War 1, 2018 GotU, 2020 House of..., 2021 Hive War.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It's easy to see a Goliath, Orlock, Delaque and Cawdor dude in there.

A bit less now they're alien hybrids, I guess...

Juve "smaller models" would need an entire different set of arms to not look off, which is not a good financial decision.

Not like that really matter now as Juve nowaday are pretty much cheap/free fodders that you don't really has to care about.

The other option is GW could release some more decorative items for each faction so that you take the core gang box and make them look more "pro" by sprucing them up more and then use more basic ones from that set as juves


I don't think GW is worried about "child soldiers" - heck they've got kids stories with kids running around in the setting; the recent Marvel comics both feature "I'm a kid backstory to how I became a superwarrior"

 Overread wrote:
The other option is GW could release some more decorative items for each faction so that you take the core gang box and make them look more "pro" by sprucing them up more and then use more basic ones from that set as juves


I don't think GW is worried about "child soldiers" - heck they've got kids stories with kids running around in the setting; the recent Marvel comics both feature "I'm a kid backstory to how I became a superwarrior"

To be honest I have no idea about GW's position on child soldiers in their games, but you have to consider the game part here. Child soldier protagonists with impregnable plot armor are different to random guys getting splattered every other game.

It's easy enough to do in historicals with a nod to historical accuracy, but even there you get plenty of people who aren't comfortable with shooting up a bunch of kids. In an entirely fictional setting you are in full control of the content, you're going to open yourself up to criticism. I reckon that's just not something that is lightly done by GW of today.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
It's easy to see a Goliath, Orlock, Delaque and Cawdor dude in there.

A bit less now they're alien hybrids, I guess...

Meh, the outcast dudes are still wearing trench coats and a full suit of clothes under them. What's under the clothes, we don't know.

Can't be all that different though or by now someone on Necromunda would have noticed the green blood or tentacle mouths in their bellies when they shot them. It's probably more like 2% alien DNA or something.

I like to consider juves simply as new recruits, or less experience gangers than actual younger gangers. That's why I wouldn't want standalone kits to represent them, I'd like to keep using regular gangers to represent my juves. IMHO a juve can certainly be a 50-somethin yo guy armed with a stub gun and a knife that the gang encountered at some point giving him shelter and they recruited him.

In the regular kits there are plenty of weapons that are not really good for gangers, champions or leaders but perfect for badly equipped cheap juves.