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So Ghaz is a Perpetual?

 Psionara wrote:
Wasn't there a piece of fluff where painboys are able to reattach a severed limbs back onto the body and the ork still live? Ragnar's words may be true in taking Ghaz's head, but there would be an "after credits scene" where a painboy takes his head and reattaches it back to his body. That and the power of Gork and Mork on his side could help in healing him.

Painboys can do a lot, including reattaching limbs (though we can do that within a short span of time in some cases (esp. fingers), so that isn't a huge leap for a 'robust and hardy' space fantasy race). Reversing actual decapitation... that's a bit much.

I suspect that the pieces we're getting at the moment show a completely different picture than the book will, but it may well be this year's Blood Angel/Necron Bro Alliance moment

The Blood Ravens show up and inter Ghaz in a Dread body 'gifted' to them by the Dark Angels?

Voss wrote:

 TedNugent wrote:
If this clown actually kills Ghaz in a mini book, so help me Mork.

Well, according to the video preview up today, he 'swore to take the head of the beast' and was 'true to his word.'
But Ghaz came back from that, and so a new confrontation.

So... yeah. No idea how to parse that, beyond the absurdly Transylvanian Ragnar in the video being extremely metaphorical, or Ghaz is actually different orks, or can self-rez.

JSG wrote:A bit disappointed Ragnar has black hair tbh. The whole Blackmane/Blackmanes/Blackmane heraldry being because of his hair colour rather than because he slew a Blackmane wolf seems like a weird, post apocalyptic degradation of GW writing. It's very 40k I'll give them that.

Ragnar has had black hair for more than twenty years now. He's described that way pre-geneseed on page 13 of William King's Space Wolf novel, published in 1999, and in the GW paint job, the model was done with black hair.

When the model was released it was painted to have blonde hair, always seemed like a pointless retconn.

I can't be assed finding the heavy metal page he's on, but the modl4is in this pic

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/DSC08714.jpg

To be fair I think it was the William King books that caused the hair color change.

Voss wrote:
Painboys can do a lot, including reattaching limbs (though we can do that within a short span of time in some cases (esp. fingers), so that isn't a huge leap for a 'robust and hardy' space fantasy race). Reversing actual decapitation... that's a bit much.

Not really? Thrakka is the guy that got half his head blown off by a bolter before stumbling back to Grotznik's tent and getting it fixed with a brain squig and an adamatium skull.

There is also the KBB crew, one of them clearly has his head stapled back on. That's how ork physiology works.

Yup, it's been mentioned in the fluff before that Ork heads continue living for a decent amount of time post decapitation. Most likely, Ragnar decapitated Ghaz, didn't take the head and some Dok or Mek(or both) reattached it to his/a Cybork body.

 Platuan4th wrote:
Yup, it's been mentioned in the fluff before that Ork heads continue living for a decent amount of time post decapitation. Most likely, Ragnar decapitated Ghaz, didn't take the head and some Dok or Mek(or both) reattached it to his/a Cybork body.

so Ghaz is nearly killed(or close enuff), Ragnar thinks he's won. a short time later, Ghaz pops back up(afta kros'n da rubik'kan), nearly kills Ragnar, thinks he's won. a short time later, Ragnar crosses the vlka rubifang and we get a stalemate since neither one can believe they didnt kill the other one.

Racerguy180 wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
Yup, it's been mentioned in the fluff before that Ork heads continue living for a decent amount of time post decapitation. Most likely, Ragnar decapitated Ghaz, didn't take the head and some Dok or Mek(or both) reattached it to his/a Cybork body.

so Ghaz is nearly killed(or close enuff), Ragnar thinks he's won. a short time later, Ghaz pops back up(afta kros'n da rubik'kan), nearly kills Ragnar, thinks he's won. a short time later, Ragnar crosses the vlka rubifang and we get a stalemate since neither one can believe they didnt kill the other one.

Some people believed with 8th the Story progressed, the stalemate is no more.

No the stalemate has just moved to the marneeeerrrm rubikon.
Where we cast die to break it again.

Well, there are three big problems with progressing stories in a universe like 40k:
- It's hard to kill off characters that you are trying to sell for another decade
- Nobody cares about Thrakka killing Nobody McWolfBark, nor about Ragnar beheading Warboss Zogme Whocares
- It feels stale if two legendary combatants face off and neither dies... again. Imagine "Highlander:There can only be all of them".

I think the solution to this is just not having these duels of equals anymore. IMO the single best advancement of plot was actually the fall of Cadia. Something very important was destroyed, Abbaddon finally got a victory worth the title of Warmaster, many loved characters' whereabouts are unknown and the entire galaxy literally broke in half, screwing over pretty much everyone.
The thing is, there aren't too many things like Cadia in the background, and you can't go burning through them every other campaign book.
In my opinion they need to go through building up a universe worth destroying first, before they can really continue with story telling. No one would have shed a tear if Captain America had died in the first avengers movie.

 Dysartes wrote:
Anyone else going to be amused if the rumoured SW vs. Orks box turns out to be a false rumour?

I wish it was, I guess we'll see I'm just hoping its a good price point if it is there.

Racerguy180 wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
Yup, it's been mentioned in the fluff before that Ork heads continue living for a decent amount of time post decapitation. Most likely, Ragnar decapitated Ghaz, didn't take the head and some Dok or Mek(or both) reattached it to his/a Cybork body.

so Ghaz is nearly killed(or close enuff), Ragnar thinks he's won. a short time later, Ghaz pops back up(afta kros'n da rubik'kan), nearly kills Ragnar, thinks he's won. a short time later, Ragnar crosses the vlka rubifang and we get a stalemate since neither one can believe they didnt kill the other one.

No. According to that teaser video the chain of events seems to be as such;

1. Ragnar and Ghaz' fight on Krondar (or Grondar or wherever the feth we are now) and Ragnar 'takes Ghazzy's head' but 'at great cost' which implies to me a mutual destruction.
2. Ragnar gets Primfanged up. Ghazzy gets his head stuck back on and a new shoota.
3. Ragnar goes back to 'av anuva go'. We don't know outcome yet but very likely either stalemate or Ragnar wins for reals this time.

So Ghazzy has already lost once to a third in command chump captain of a marine subfaction. How the feth is he supposed to compete with the likes of Primarchs? I think GW are going to feth this release up in terms of lore - there's no point releasing a Primarch scale Ghaz' model to raise his threat level if you have him lose twice in the same breath to a subfaction mid-tier character. It utterly defeats the purpose.

We'll see soon I suppose, but the lore so far looks like a badly written SW fanfic the more snippets are revealed, which is disappointing.

Justyn wrote:
So Ghaz is a Perpetual?

Nah, Orks are just stupidly tough.
Dismemberment doesn't really bother Ork like it does for most races. They just need to get to a dok in time with the missing limb and their good to go.

Perhaps Ghaz is only _mostly_ dead. Which is not _all_ dead?

The Mad Dok could have a Miracle Pill . . .

Voss wrote:

If it were Yarrick vs Ghaz I might care, as that match-up actually has stakes, but this feels drawn from a hat. Or, as the Psychic Snorefest drags onward thru perfectly mundane fights on a handful of planets, it feels like just an accidental match-up of factions that haven't been covered yet. (Though AdMech vs Daemons is really going to bring the 'who cares?' bar to new lows).

I was recently reminded of the pre-PA promo for the books, all that guff about how we would get answers to ancient mysteries and receive galaxy-shaking revelations and so on. I think it's safe to say none of that has come to pass.

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

Voss wrote:

If it were Yarrick vs Ghaz I might care, as that match-up actually has stakes, but this feels drawn from a hat. Or, as the Psychic Snorefest drags onward thru perfectly mundane fights on a handful of planets, it feels like just an accidental match-up of factions that haven't been covered yet. (Though AdMech vs Daemons is really going to bring the 'who cares?' bar to new lows).

I was recently reminded of the pre-PA promo for the books, all that guff about how we would get answers to ancient mysteries and receive galaxy-shaking revelations and so on. I think it's safe to say none of that has come to pass.

All the factions to get updated?
To an equal Position?




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:
Well, there are three big problems with progressing stories in a universe like 40k:
- It's hard to kill off characters that you are trying to sell for another decade
- Nobody cares about Thrakka killing Nobody McWolfBark, nor about Ragnar beheading Warboss Zogme Whocares
- It feels stale if two legendary combatants face off and neither dies... again. Imagine "Highlander:There can only be all of them".

I think the solution to this is just not having these duels of equals anymore. IMO the single best advancement of plot was actually the fall of Cadia. Something very important was destroyed, Abbaddon finally got a victory worth the title of Warmaster, many loved characters' whereabouts are unknown and the entire galaxy literally broke in half, screwing over pretty much everyone.
The thing is, there aren't too many things like Cadia in the background, and you can't go burning through them every other campaign book.
In my opinion they need to go through building up a universe worth destroying first, before they can really continue with story telling. No one would have shed a tear if Captain America had died in the first avengers movie.

Agree on all points.

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
Yup, it's been mentioned in the fluff before that Ork heads continue living for a decent amount of time post decapitation. Most likely, Ragnar decapitated Ghaz, didn't take the head and some Dok or Mek(or both) reattached it to his/a Cybork body.

so Ghaz is nearly killed(or close enuff), Ragnar thinks he's won. a short time later, Ghaz pops back up(afta kros'n da rubik'kan), nearly kills Ragnar, thinks he's won. a short time later, Ragnar crosses the vlka rubifang and we get a stalemate since neither one can believe they didnt kill the other one.

No. According to that teaser video the chain of events seems to be as such;

1. Ragnar and Ghaz' fight on Krondar (or Grondar or wherever the feth we are now) and Ragnar 'takes Ghazzy's head' but 'at great cost' which implies to me a mutual destruction.
2. Ragnar gets Primfanged up. Ghazzy gets his head stuck back on and a new shoota.
3. Ragnar goes back to 'av anuva go'. We don't know outcome yet but very likely either stalemate or Ragnar wins for reals this time.

So Ghazzy has already lost once to a third in command chump captain of a marine subfaction. How the feth is he supposed to compete with the likes of Primarchs? I think GW are going to feth this release up in terms of lore - there's no point releasing a Primarch scale Ghaz' model to raise his threat level if you have him lose twice in the same breath to a subfaction mid-tier character. It utterly defeats the purpose.

We'll see soon I suppose, but the lore so far looks like a badly written SW fanfic the more snippets are revealed, which is disappointing.

The campaign books are historic, if he's alive in the codex he survives the fight.
Tbh if it was just a warboss of some ork subfactiobn killing off one of the imperiums greatest living heroes it'd be like poorly written ork fanfic.

edit: I am being intentionally facetious to highlight that repeatedly trying to call wolves a subfaction or that Ragnar isn't a primarch like it's relevant just looks a little over zealous.

Hellebore wrote:
When the model was released it was painted to have blonde hair, always seemed like a pointless retconn.

I can't be assed finding the heavy metal page he's on, but the modl4is in this pic

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/DSC08714.jpg

Just so you're aware, BOLS has set its server up so you can't hotlink to images.

And Ragnar is hardly some "chump captain" - he's one of the oldest SC in the game, with more background material written about him (thanks to William King) than most characters.

I wonder if Ragnar is being more literal or figurative when he says “take the head of the beast”. Did he take Thraka’s head or did he take the Waaagh spearhead and now needs to take stop Thraka and the body of the spear?

All the factions to get updated?

They will eventually all get something, which is all that was promised.

To an equal Position?

Since that is only achievable by deleting them all, I suspect not.

I wonder if Ragnar is being more literal or figurative when he says “take the head of the beast”. Did he take Thraka’s head or did he take the Waaagh spearhead and now needs to take stop Thraka and the body of the spear?

To me its clear he thought he killed Thraka.

And Ragnar is hardly some "chump captain" - he's one of the oldest SC in the game, with more background material written about him (thanks to William King) than most characters.

Glad I am not the only one who doesn't discount the lore of characters just because they are not my favored faction. Though he is not the Great Wolf, or Russ, story wise Ragnar is usually more pivotal than Grimnar.

Ghaz is teleporting around the galaxy. That's how he got away from Yarrick and Helbrecht. Ragnar probably tracked Ghaz to a planet, arrived just after Ghaz had ported away, killed the biggest Ork he could find and called it a day. Only for reports of Ghaz to start up again a week later.

Back in the day I thought Ragnar was the chapter master of the space wolves.

Regarding Ragnar vs Ghaz and how that battle should go is of course up to GW, but if they mean that Ghaz is starting to become beastlike (as in the beast) then realistically anything beneath a primarch shouldn't really trouble him. Of course, even if he's redemptor sized now he's still not as large as "The Beast". Even so, Ghaz might be the biggest singualr Xeno threat there is and shouldn't be getting his ass whopped by one of the more known SW characters.

His (beginning of?) ascension into primeork feels cheapened if he doesn't defeat even a primaris Ragnar quite handily IMO

This seems to be one of the main problems with "Advancing the plot". The characters, we're stuck with them, and they have to interact with each other. It's like Marvel or something and it's pretty bad. Characters have to interact with each other repeatedly, either that or they have to interact with one of the other characters. In old 40K, Yarrick would have met Ghaz once or twice, if it were over a decades long campaign. Now Yarrick has to bump into Ghaz every so often, and if it's not Yarrick it's Ragnar or Eldrad or someone else in the cast. It's like a serial. Kind of gakky imo.

His (beginning of?) ascension into primeork feels cheapened if he doesn't defeat even a primaris Ragnar quite handily IMO

And if they walked out into the middle of a field and Mano-a-mano'd each other i'd almost agree with you. But it doesn't have to go down that way at all for either to 'win'. Sadly I think the story is going to be lame no matter the outcome. So it matters not who wins.

JWBS wrote:
This seems to be one of the main problems with "Advancing the plot". The characters, we're stuck with them, and they have to interact with each other. It's like Marvel or something and it's pretty bad. Characters have to interact with each other repeatedly, either that or they have to interact with one of the other characters. In old 40K, Yarrick would have met Ghaz once or twice, if it were over a decades long campaign. Now Yarrick has to bump into Ghaz every so often, and if it's not Yarrick it's Ragnar or Eldrad or someone else in the cast. It's like a serial. Kind of gakky imo.

40k has always been a grim dark Saturday morning cartoon.

Except that while it was true to origin it was setting so there was no constant headbutting where nobody dies because they need to headbut again later to "keep story going"

 Agamemnon2 wrote:

Voss wrote:

If it were Yarrick vs Ghaz I might care, as that match-up actually has stakes, but this feels drawn from a hat. Or, as the Psychic Snorefest drags onward thru perfectly mundane fights on a handful of planets, it feels like just an accidental match-up of factions that haven't been covered yet. (Though AdMech vs Daemons is really going to bring the 'who cares?' bar to new lows).

I was recently reminded of the pre-PA promo for the books, all that guff about how we would get answers to ancient mysteries and receive galaxy-shaking revelations and so on. I think it's safe to say none of that has come to pass.

To which I say- good.

Some mysteries should remain just that. Not everything needs to be codified. It is one of the single worst things about modern 40k background and ignorant individuals wanting these answers for no other reason than to have an answer (despite 40k working perfectly fine without such things and conflicting histories being a feature, rather than a bug in 40k...) are fuelling GW to remove all mystery from their franchise.

To which I say- good.

Some mysteries should remain just that. Not everything needs to be codified. It is one of the single worst things about modern 40k background and ignorant individuals wanting these answers for no other reason than to have an answer (despite 40k working perfectly fine without such things and conflicting histories being a feature, rather than a bug in 40k...) are fuelling GW to remove all mystery from their franchise.

To be fair. A well written ongoing story would slowly answer questions while simultaneously generating more. So you never learn everything, but you do learn some things.

Dudeface wrote:

 An Actual Englishman wrote:

Racerguy180 wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:
Yup, it's been mentioned in the fluff before that Ork heads continue living for a decent amount of time post decapitation. Most likely, Ragnar decapitated Ghaz, didn't take the head and some Dok or Mek(or both) reattached it to his/a Cybork body.

so Ghaz is nearly killed(or close enuff), Ragnar thinks he's won. a short time later, Ghaz pops back up(afta kros'n da rubik'kan), nearly kills Ragnar, thinks he's won. a short time later, Ragnar crosses the vlka rubifang and we get a stalemate since neither one can believe they didnt kill the other one.

No. According to that teaser video the chain of events seems to be as such;

1. Ragnar and Ghaz' fight on Krondar (or Grondar or wherever the feth we are now) and Ragnar 'takes Ghazzy's head' but 'at great cost' which implies to me a mutual destruction.
2. Ragnar gets Primfanged up. Ghazzy gets his head stuck back on and a new shoota.
3. Ragnar goes back to 'av anuva go'. We don't know outcome yet but very likely either stalemate or Ragnar wins for reals this time.

So Ghazzy has already lost once to a third in command chump captain of a marine subfaction. How the feth is he supposed to compete with the likes of Primarchs? I think GW are going to feth this release up in terms of lore - there's no point releasing a Primarch scale Ghaz' model to raise his threat level if you have him lose twice in the same breath to a subfaction mid-tier character. It utterly defeats the purpose.

We'll see soon I suppose, but the lore so far looks like a badly written SW fanfic the more snippets are revealed, which is disappointing.

The campaign books are historic, if he's alive in the codex he survives the fight.
Tbh if it was just a warboss of some ork subfactiobn killing off one of the imperiums greatest living heroes it'd be like poorly written ork fanfic.

edit: I am being intentionally facetious to highlight that repeatedly trying to call wolves a subfaction or that Ragnar isn't a primarch like it's relevant just looks a little over zealous.

As fellow Space Wolf player I can confirm that Wolves are a sub-faction of Marines which are of course a sub-faction of the Imperium.

Nearest comparison with Ragnar in Orks would be a specific Warboss of a Specific Clan of a specific Ork Kultur.

You seem to be confused about Ghaz, so its probbaly best to read some of the actual lore - he is currently the uniting force of the Orks, a similar figure to RG, the Primarch.

Hope that clears up your evident confusion about the world of Warhammer 40k

 Mr Morden wrote:
Is this Warhammer 40: Ragnar-rok

No, it's Warhammer 40k: Ragnar-Ork .