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Lord Damocles wrote: At least the tyranical reign of Ogryns dominating the competetive meta has finally been brought to an end.
Ogryns needed a further drop in points, not an increase. GW screwed the pooch. I hope they read this thread and feel ashamed. Ogryn have been bordering on useless for 15 years.
The only saving grace is that Aquilon Terminators have a chance, slim as it might be, to be corrected when GW redoes all the FW points and rules later this year.
cuda1179 wrote: The only saving grace is that Aquilon Terminators have a chance, slim as it might be, to be corrected when GW redoes all the FW points and rules later this year.
I admire your optimism. As a Guard player that likes a few FW things, I can't really remember the last time that I was pleased with a new set of rules. It's just been a combination of points and rules not keeping up with the Codex, crazy updates that don't work, or very obvious proofing/editing mistakes.
Wayniac wrote: The bigger question is what did they forget/mess up in the errata of the errata
Bonesinger for one. Costs 70pts and is a HQ in legends but in CA19 its 50ts and it used to be an elites choice.
Many eldar players that like the unit and like fluffy wraith lists are peeved. I've been running him as elite at 50 pts..
Hmm. Seems like one of those glass 1/2 full or 1/2 empty perspectives
You see a problem.
Me? I see flexibility.... If I've got the elite slot to spare, or only 50pts? Then the singer is an elites choice. If I'm out of elite slots? Good news! I can still take the model. I'll just have to pay a premium to upgrade him to HQ status.
cuda1179 wrote: The only saving grace is that Aquilon Terminators have a chance, slim as it might be, to be corrected when GW redoes all the FW points and rules later this year.
I admire your optimism. As a Guard player that likes a few FW things, I can't really remember the last time that I was pleased with a new set of rules. It's just been a combination of points and rules not keeping up with the Codex, crazy updates that don't work, or very obvious proofing/editing mistakes.
Considering they basically ignored fw in ca and have been doing so for years, they'd better do something pretty fething impressive with those new books.
Asmodai wrote: Iron Hands are fine. Apparently it's Ogryns and Aquilon Terminators that needed nerfs.
I'm convinced that the Ogryn price is a victim of a copypasta from the Guard Codex.
In fact, looking at the Guard Codex, CA2018 and CA2019 side by side, I'd bet good money that the person who wrote CA2019 didn't even know about the change to Ogryns in CA2018.
it's eaither that or someone at GW is concerned about that Ogryn strat in PA5 making Ogryn's a little too good.
Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two
GW have consistently proven to write rules for armies (and sometimes units) in a vacuum. Do you think that they considered a strat in a different book when failing to keep the changes in one book in a newly published book?
That's three different books to keep track of on top of the Codex. Far too complex for a company that writes rules professionally.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/11 21:32:07
Wayniac wrote: The bigger question is what did they forget/mess up in the errata of the errata
Bonesinger for one. Costs 70pts and is a HQ in legends but in CA19 its 50ts and it used to be an elites choice.
Many eldar players that like the unit and like fluffy wraith lists are peeved. I've been running him as elite at 50 pts..
Hmm. Seems like one of those glass 1/2 full or 1/2 empty perspectives
You see a problem.
Me? I see flexibility.... If I've got the elite slot to spare, or only 50pts? Then the singer is an elites choice. If I'm out of elite slots? Good news! I can still take the model. I'll just have to pay a premium to upgrade him to HQ status.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Wayniac wrote: The bigger question is what did they forget/mess up in the errata of the errata
Las Fusil cost for Blood Angels is still missing (and possibly for DA too). It's all the more perplexing because they noticed they forgot the sergeant's weapon from the weapon list but apparently didn't notice the lack of the Las Fusil at the same time. It's sloppy as hell but not a major problem if you have the field manual as it's easy enough to look up the cost in the Space Marine weapon list. Slightly more problematic if you're just using Blood of Baal for the points costs though since that hasn't been errata'd.
Overall I'm confused about why this took so long. There are a decent number of changes but nothing that wouldn't have taken more than a day or two to sort out, so well within the normal FAQ period. The fact they then still didn't get it right is pretty much peak GW.
Wayniac wrote: The bigger question is what did they forget/mess up in the errata of the errata
Las Fusil cost for Blood Angels is still missing (and possibly for DA too). It's all the more perplexing because they noticed they forgot the sergeant's weapon from the weapon list but apparently didn't notice the lack of the Las Fusil at the same time. It's sloppy as hell but not a major problem if you have the field manual as it's easy enough to look up the cost in the Space Marine weapon list. Slightly more problematic if you're just using Blood of Baal for the points costs though since that hasn't been errata'd.
Overall I'm confused about why this took so long. There are a decent number of changes but nothing that wouldn't have taken more than a day or two to sort out, so well within the normal FAQ period. The fact they then still didn't get it right is pretty much peak GW.
Maybe they actually considered addressing all the units they ignored, then decided not to so as to save face.
Basically "Ok all over now folks. Nothing more to see here. Move along!"
Wayniac wrote: The bigger question is what did they forget/mess up in the errata of the errata
Las Fusil cost for Blood Angels is still missing (and possibly for DA too). It's all the more perplexing because they noticed they forgot the sergeant's weapon from the weapon list but apparently didn't notice the lack of the Las Fusil at the same time. It's sloppy as hell but not a major problem if you have the field manual as it's easy enough to look up the cost in the Space Marine weapon list. Slightly more problematic if you're just using Blood of Baal for the points costs though since that hasn't been errata'd.
Overall I'm confused about why this took so long. There are a decent number of changes but nothing that wouldn't have taken more than a day or two to sort out, so well within the normal FAQ period. The fact they then still didn't get it right is pretty much peak GW.
Maybe they actually considered addressing all the units they ignored, then decided not to so as to save face.
Basically "Ok all over now folks. Nothing more to see here. Move along!"
Considering their "competence" that isn't even an unlikely scenario
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/11 09:19:13
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Lord Damocles wrote: At least the tyranical reign of Ogryns dominating the competetive meta has finally been brought to an end.
Yes, thank god they put me in my place. I was living too high on the hog of my Ogryns point drops. Well, guess its back to shooting for days and more effective Bullgryns. Thanks GW, choices bad mmkay.
Lord Damocles wrote: At least the tyranical reign of Ogryns dominating the competetive meta has finally been brought to an end.
Yes, thank god they put me in my place. I was living too high on the hog of my Ogryns point drops. Well, guess its back to shooting for days and more effective Bullgryns. Thanks GW, choices bad mmkay.
I am waiting for the ratling nerf, as well as the stompa nerf.
Because at this point this is more likely then an actual common sense handling.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/11 09:31:29
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Asmodai wrote: Iron Hands are fine. Apparently it's Ogryns and Aquilon Terminators that needed nerfs.
I'm convinced that the Ogryn price is a victim of a copypasta from the Guard Codex.
In fact, looking at the Guard Codex, CA2018 and CA2019 side by side, I'd bet good money that the person who wrote CA2019 didn't even know about the change to Ogryns in CA2018.
it's eaither that or someone at GW is concerned about that Ogryn strat in PA5 making Ogryn's a little too good.
Are you kidding me ? That one where you can get a whole massive mortal wound per unit to any units they contact in a charge on a 4+ ? Yes, truly that was about to set the world on fire.
Lord Damocles wrote: At least the tyranical reign of Ogryns dominating the competetive meta has finally been brought to an end.
Yes, thank god they put me in my place. I was living too high on the hog of my Ogryns point drops. Well, guess its back to shooting for days and more effective Bullgryns. Thanks GW, choices bad mmkay.
I am waiting for the ratling nerf, as well as the stompa nerf.
Because at this point this is more likely then an actual common sense handling.
I mean i would hate to have any reason at all to ever field a Ratling. Best nerf them now, they might accidentally kill a model or survive even one round of middling shooting.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/02/11 09:37:31
I mean i would hate to have any reason at all to ever field a Ratling. Best nerf them now, they might accidentally kill a model or survive even one round of middling shooting.
Can't have that right
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/02/11 09:42:15
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
Funnily enough sisters of battle codex got price drop for unit before even codex became commonly sale...
Limited edition comes. Geminia are 16 + 4 pts for power sword.
CA19 comes, they are now 16 pts wargear included(says so above them)
Errata didn't comment this.
So either GW needs to release errata for errata or geminia dropped in points. But then comes question. Does the codex released in january supercede CA19? Whatabout players who got the codex in november?
tneva82 wrote: Funnily enough sisters of battle codex got price drop for unit before even codex became commonly sale...
Limited edition comes. Geminia are 16 + 4 pts for power sword.
CA19 comes, they are now 16 pts wargear included(says so above them)
Errata didn't comment this.
So either GW needs to release errata for errata or geminia dropped in points. But then comes question. Does the codex released in january supercede CA19? Whatabout players who got the codex in november?
Lol at the situation.
Honestly, i feel like they don't even have all the doccuments anymore for all their rulesorces.
Further, i don't like to agree with BCB but at this stage GW seriously needs to sort out the rules department.
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/0/766717.page A Mostly Renegades and Heretics blog.
GW:"Space marines got too many options to balance, therefore we decided to legends HH units." Players: "why?!? Now we finally got decent plastic kits and you cut them?" Chaos marines players: "Since when are Daemonengines 30k models and why do i have NO droppods now?" GW" MONEY.... erm i meant TOO MANY OPTIONS (to resell your army to you again by disalowing former units)! Do you want specific tyranid fighiting Primaris? Even a new sabotage lieutnant!" Chaos players: Guess i stop playing or go to HH.
For me I don't mind the CA and FAQ stuff. They do try and are much better than they used to be.
For me the kicker is new hobbiests or returning hobbiests.
We've had 3 years to soak the information, have it drip fed etc etc.
But new people or returning people feel as though they have a crap tonne of homework after buying their codex.
This is where i feel workshop fall down, is their control of the FAQ's. They need a system that makes it easy for everyone, new, returning and current to get the latest FAQ's and rules.
It's been suggested before, but they need a sub based service, where you choose your army, you get all the PDF's and sheets, updated rules and sheets as faq's come out and all relevant FAQ questions at the back.
And you would need to be able to TRUST their faq's and errata's at least. And have some sort of sense on what's actually the most up to date official cost. The gemini is pretty ridiculous situation.
November. They are 16 + wargear aka 20 pts in boxed set codex.
CA comes. Now they are 16 pts wargear included. Mistake? Intentional?
January comes. Codex gets released and it's back to 16+4. CA19 mistake?
CA19 errata comes. Not mentioned at all. So CA19 seems to be correct. But codex came later...Except codex first sister players got...Is january codex supposed to be official and those who got on november are supposed to buy january codex as well for up to date information?
If CA19 is supposed to be up to date ignoring january codex does that mean no new point costs in any codex release in 2020 applies until CA2020 comes out? IF not why sisters are exception?
H.B.M.C. wrote: Far too complex for a company that writes rules professionally.
I think by this point we have more than enough evidence that, despite being a company that is in the profession of writing rules, GW writes those rules unprofessionally.
Also, no correction to the obviously incorrect Stompa price reduction. Stompa is way too overpowered at that price point.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/02/11 11:27:45
The Laws of Thermodynamics:
1) You cannot win. 2) You cannot break even. 3) You cannot stop playing the game.
Colonel Flagg wrote:You think you're real smart. But you're not smart; you're dumb. Very dumb. But you've met your match in me.
I mean i would hate to have any reason at all to ever field a Ratling. Best nerf them now, they might accidentally kill a model or survive even one round of middling shooting.
Can't have that right
You get the quote for the song, and GW rules, they never change and stay inconsistent. As that song makes me think of fallout, I could see GW as the vault tec of game companies. Some stuff works too well, some stuff doesn't work at all, some stuff is straight up a joke but they'll claim they are leading to a bright future for us all.
Trickstick wrote: 60pt twin punisher. The vulture was already a bit outclassed by the punisher russ. Now we have both PA buffs for russes and a 20pt price hike on the vulture. I'm beginning to think GW doesn't actually want people using FW units anymore, they keep getting either neglected, badly rewritten, or nerfed.
I guess it is just removing an overlooked discount but it still annoys me. The russ gets to shoot twice so having the same cost seems weird.
necrontyrOG wrote: OOF, a 20 point increase to the Twin Punisher Vulture.
Yep - 145 for the same firepower (and shorter move) from a Punisher Leman Russ compared to 205 points for a Vulture. I mean I will still take one of the Vultures for cool value but still it makes me sad :(
tneva82 wrote: And you would need to be able to TRUST their faq's and errata's at least. And have some sort of sense on what's actually the most up to date official cost. The gemini is pretty ridiculous situation.
November. They are 16 + wargear aka 20 pts in boxed set codex.
CA comes. Now they are 16 pts wargear included. Mistake? Intentional?
January comes. Codex gets released and it's back to 16+4. CA19 mistake?
CA19 errata comes. Not mentioned at all. So CA19 seems to be correct. But codex came later...Except codex first sister players got...Is january codex supposed to be official and those who got on november are supposed to buy january codex as well for up to date information?
If CA19 is supposed to be up to date ignoring january codex does that mean no new point costs in any codex release in 2020 applies until CA2020 comes out? IF not why sisters are exception?
Is the Codex that came in the Nov Box the same as the one released to the shelf in Jan?
tneva82 wrote: And you would need to be able to TRUST their faq's and errata's at least. And have some sort of sense on what's actually the most up to date official cost. The gemini is pretty ridiculous situation.
November. They are 16 + wargear aka 20 pts in boxed set codex.
CA comes. Now they are 16 pts wargear included. Mistake? Intentional?
January comes. Codex gets released and it's back to 16+4. CA19 mistake?
CA19 errata comes. Not mentioned at all. So CA19 seems to be correct. But codex came later...Except codex first sister players got...Is january codex supposed to be official and those who got on november are supposed to buy january codex as well for up to date information?
If CA19 is supposed to be up to date ignoring january codex does that mean no new point costs in any codex release in 2020 applies until CA2020 comes out? IF not why sisters are exception?
Is the Codex that came in the Nov Box the same as the one released to the shelf in Jan?
Word for word the same inside the covers. (Maybe some of the publication info is different - I haven't that checked to compare.)
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/02/12 18:31:00
Trickstick wrote: 60pt twin punisher. The vulture was already a bit outclassed by the punisher russ. Now we have both PA buffs for russes and a 20pt price hike on the vulture. I'm beginning to think GW doesn't actually want people using FW units anymore, they keep getting either neglected, badly rewritten, or nerfed.
I guess it is just removing an overlooked discount but it still annoys me. The russ gets to shoot twice so having the same cost seems weird.
necrontyrOG wrote: OOF, a 20 point increase to the Twin Punisher Vulture.
Yep - 145 for the same firepower (and shorter move) from a Punisher Leman Russ compared to 205 points for a Vulture. I mean I will still take one of the Vultures for cool value but still it makes me sad :(
Well, there are a couple of upsides- the Vulture can fire at nearly full effectiveness while moving basically wherever it wants, while the Russ is limited to 5" to still double-fire. And the Russ can't get that sweet, sweet -1 to hit. Probably not worth the 40% higher price, but it's something.
In any case, the new Forge World books should have updated Vulture rules, so fingers crossed it'll get a balance pass then.
Eldar- 4436 pts
5500
2500 
