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 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:
New Fabius Bile spotted at GAMA. Think this means anything other than a refresh of his sculpt?

Don't think it means anything to CSM's problems as far as I've been describing them here. Bile could come with a new option for enhancing CSM (or enhanced CSM unit), which could be fun. But even if its a good unit on its own, it won't address the overall problem of the faction. And it would be a shame if CSM infantry wasn't good normally, but was good with Bile's enhancement, as that would pigeonhole people into running Bile.

He could also mean new Noise Marine sculpt, which has been rumored. That'd be great to see, but also probably won't fix the overall state of CSM.

I hope you're right. There's been speculation that his "new men" could be primaris chaos marines, which is a concept I hate. His assistant harvesting a primaris marine's progenoid doesn't bode well.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Maybe stop quoting the quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote of a quote if you're just going to write 2 line replies.

Or just hide the wall of quotes in a spoiler. That stuff makes me feel like I'm playing that old nes game where you bomb the xenos ziggurats.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:
New Fabius Bile spotted at GAMA. Think this means anything other than a refresh of his sculpt?

Don't think it means anything to CSM's problems as far as I've been describing them here. Bile could come with a new option for enhancing CSM (or enhanced CSM unit), which could be fun. But even if its a good unit on its own, it won't address the overall problem of the faction. And it would be a shame if CSM infantry wasn't good normally, but was good with Bile's enhancement, as that would pigeonhole people into running Bile.

He could also mean new Noise Marine sculpt, which has been rumored. That'd be great to see, but also probably won't fix the overall state of CSM.

I hope you're right. There's been speculation that his "new men" could be primaris chaos marines, which is a concept I hate. His assistant harvesting a primaris marine's progenoid doesn't bode well.

Yeaahh. "Chaos Primaris" will be a big fat disappointed yawn from me.

 Insectum7 wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:
New Fabius Bile spotted at GAMA. Think this means anything other than a refresh of his sculpt?

Don't think it means anything to CSM's problems as far as I've been describing them here. Bile could come with a new option for enhancing CSM (or enhanced CSM unit), which could be fun. But even if its a good unit on its own, it won't address the overall problem of the faction. And it would be a shame if CSM infantry wasn't good normally, but was good with Bile's enhancement, as that would pigeonhole people into running Bile.

He could also mean new Noise Marine sculpt, which has been rumored. That'd be great to see, but also probably won't fix the overall state of CSM.

I hope you're right. There's been speculation that his "new men" could be primaris chaos marines, which is a concept I hate. His assistant harvesting a primaris marine's progenoid doesn't bode well.

Yeaahh. "Chaos Primaris" will be a big fat disappointed yawn from me.

It would definitely show a lack of creativity and understanding of what csm are about.

I'd be surprised if we saw a line of Chaos Primaris units because we just got new sculpts of regular chaos marines. But I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a unit called "Mutant Marines" or something that have the primaris statline, but them some whacky special rules or downsides like bile enhanced marines of the past. And I'd be fine with those existing.

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:
I'd be surprised if we saw a line of Chaos Primaris units because we just got new sculpts of regular chaos marines. But I wouldn't be surprised if we saw a unit called "Mutant Marines" or something that have the primaris statline, but them some whacky special rules or downsides like bile enhanced marines of the past. And I'd be fine with those existing.

So basically possessed with ranged weapons and without the daemon keyword and daemon save? I could see that, but would prefer rules changes to make our current units more viable. I don't like mutants and daemons in my Night Lords, course that's just my hang up.

Looks like a new Fabius model is about to launch, v excited as I am building my EC army at the minute. Hopefully this means a EC codex is gonna drop

mrFickle wrote:
Looks like a new Fabius model is about to launch, v excited as I am building my EC army at the minute. Hopefully this means a EC codex is gonna drop

ec and WE are nearly 100% guaranteed considering that GW decries beeing a model company yet just prints more and more rulebooks

What does make me question it though is, why is a primaris sized helper harvesting a primaris for fabius.

Not Online!!! wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
Looks like a new Fabius model is about to launch, v excited as I am building my EC army at the minute. Hopefully this means a EC codex is gonna drop

ec and WE are nearly 100% guaranteed considering that GW decries beeing a model company yet just prints more and more rulebooks

What does make me question it though is, why is a primaris sized helper harvesting a primaris for fabius.

I think we can guess at some possible reasons for that. And I really don't like one of them.

Not Online!!! wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
Looks like a new Fabius model is about to launch, v excited as I am building my EC army at the minute. Hopefully this means a EC codex is gonna drop

ec and WE are nearly 100% guaranteed considering that GW decries beeing a model company yet just prints more and more rulebooks

What does make me question it though is, why is a primaris sized helper harvesting a primaris for fabius.

Fabius is the only plausible link to getting primaris CSM. I don’t like this idea, the only thing I liked about primaris was the added difference between CSM and SM armies.

If they do this primaris CSM should be restricted to EC armies containing Fabius and they should be primaris + Fabius enhancements, total genetic freaks. Maybe they are enthralled to him as part of his clone army.

If GW jus relaunch CSM with primaris like they have done with SM I will stop buying their stuff

mrFickle wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
Looks like a new Fabius model is about to launch, v excited as I am building my EC army at the minute. Hopefully this means a EC codex is gonna drop

ec and WE are nearly 100% guaranteed considering that GW decries beeing a model company yet just prints more and more rulebooks

What does make me question it though is, why is a primaris sized helper harvesting a primaris for fabius.

Fabius is the only plausible link to getting primaris CSM. I don’t like this idea, the only thing I liked about primaris was the added difference between CSM and SM armies.

If they do this primaris CSM should be restricted to EC armies containing Fabius and they should be primaris + Fabius enhancements, total genetic freaks. Maybe they are enthralled to him as part of his clone army.

If GW jus relaunch CSM with primaris like they have done with SM I will stop buying their stuff

i doubt we get primaris.
Nor do i think EC would accept primaris in their ranks.

What we probably will see though is freaks made out of primaris stuff, allbeit i'd have loved if we got access to stolen bolt rifles and consorts.
as for the primaris themselves, i dunno, but they make nice chosen, and their bolter are better then what we have right now, (looks wise) not to mention that you even get 10 of them in a 10 men box. Yes i am still salty about the 8 boltguns 8 chainsword /pistols in the csm box.
and better not talk about csm terminators with me.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:
New Fabius Bile spotted at GAMA. Think this means anything other than a refresh of his sculpt?

Don't think it means anything to CSM's problems as far as I've been describing them here. Bile could come with a new option for enhancing CSM (or enhanced CSM unit), which could be fun. But even if its a good unit on its own, it won't address the overall problem of the faction. And it would be a shame if CSM infantry wasn't good normally, but was good with Bile's enhancement, as that would pigeonhole people into running Bile.

He could also mean new Noise Marine sculpt, which has been rumored. That'd be great to see, but also probably won't fix the overall state of CSM.

I hope you're right. There's been speculation that his "new men" could be primaris chaos marines, which is a concept I hate. His assistant harvesting a primaris marine's progenoid doesn't bode well.

Well, that'd be wrong. His 'New Men' are his gland hounds, which are already seeded on dozens of worlds, and aren't marines in any real sense.
Unless of course GW wants to create a complete disconnect between the fiction and the game...

However, that doesn't prevent GW tossing in some primaris chaos marine units that he worked on as a side project to see what they were capable of (or fix his own issues)
Truthfully, if they wanted to, GW could start a completely new 'chaos' faction with Bile, and just go crazy with it.

I think it’s only a matter of time before a primaris chapters turns renegade and over to chaos.

mrFickle wrote:
I think it’s only a matter of time before a primaris chapters turns renegade and over to chaos.

TBF that wouldn't bother me.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:
New Fabius Bile spotted at GAMA. Think this means anything other than a refresh of his sculpt?

Don't think it means anything to CSM's problems as far as I've been describing them here. Bile could come with a new option for enhancing CSM (or enhanced CSM unit), which could be fun. But even if its a good unit on its own, it won't address the overall problem of the faction. And it would be a shame if CSM infantry wasn't good normally, but was good with Bile's enhancement, as that would pigeonhole people into running Bile.

He could also mean new Noise Marine sculpt, which has been rumored. That'd be great to see, but also probably won't fix the overall state of CSM.

I hope you're right. There's been speculation that his "new men" could be primaris chaos marines, which is a concept I hate. His assistant harvesting a primaris marine's progenoid doesn't bode well.

Well, that'd be wrong. His 'New Men' are his gland hounds, which are already seeded on dozens of worlds, and aren't marines in any real sense.
Unless of course GW wants to create a complete disconnect between the fiction and the game...

However, that doesn't prevent GW tossing in some primaris chaos marine units that he worked on as a side project to see what they were capable of (or fix his own issues)
Truthfully, if they wanted to, GW could start a completely new 'chaos' faction with Bile, and just go crazy with it.

Maybee we are all wrong, get indeed a bile army, which get's generic superhumans / gland hounds, so mostly power armor less. and all kinds of wierd misshaps etc.
infact it would probably make a nice minidex.

And we all know how GW loves these mindexes atm sadly.

Not Online!!! wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
I think it’s only a matter of time before a primaris chapters turns renegade and over to chaos.

TBF that wouldn't bother me.

As long as they keep them out of the legions I could live with that.

Voss wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

 Drudge Dreadnought wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:
New Fabius Bile spotted at GAMA. Think this means anything other than a refresh of his sculpt?

Don't think it means anything to CSM's problems as far as I've been describing them here. Bile could come with a new option for enhancing CSM (or enhanced CSM unit), which could be fun. But even if its a good unit on its own, it won't address the overall problem of the faction. And it would be a shame if CSM infantry wasn't good normally, but was good with Bile's enhancement, as that would pigeonhole people into running Bile.

He could also mean new Noise Marine sculpt, which has been rumored. That'd be great to see, but also probably won't fix the overall state of CSM.

I hope you're right. There's been speculation that his "new men" could be primaris chaos marines, which is a concept I hate. His assistant harvesting a primaris marine's progenoid doesn't bode well.

Well, that'd be wrong. His 'New Men' are his gland hounds, which are already seeded on dozens of worlds, and aren't marines in any real sense.
Unless of course GW wants to create a complete disconnect between the fiction and the game...

However, that doesn't prevent GW tossing in some primaris chaos marine units that he worked on as a side project to see what they were capable of (or fix his own issues)
Truthfully, if they wanted to, GW could start a completely new 'chaos' faction with Bile, and just go crazy with it.

Maybee we are all wrong, get indeed a bile army, which get's generic superhumans / gland hounds, so mostly power armor less. and all kinds of wierd misshaps etc.
infact it would probably make a nice minidex.

And we all know how GW loves these mindexes atm sadly.

That could be interesting. And yes, these attempts to bring factions up to loyalist marines level with a few strategems, relics, etc is definitely not cutting it. We need new codexes.

What we need is a pricetag on traits.
Want to play Al, better be prepared for a higher pricetag.etc.

Which would be better for obvious reasons for balance then the completly unbalanceable stratagem system and trait system we got now.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

As long as they keep them out of the legions I could live with that.

Do you really think the legions would care beyond more fodder?

BL would just pick them up and throw them at the enemy,
IW would be grumbly but not also not be bothered because attrition rates need replacement.

DG, WE, EC cult marines all can be made achieved via modification and support of respective gods. So that would also not be a real issue.

The renegades wouldn't care anyways.

Not Online!!! wrote:
What we need is a pricetag on traits.
Want to play Al, better be prepared for a higher pricetag.etc.

Which would be better for obvious reasons for balance then the completly unbalanceable stratagem system and trait system we got now.

That's something we've agreed on for a while.

Now only if we could convince gw of our infinite wisdom.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
What we need is a pricetag on traits.
Want to play Al, better be prepared for a higher pricetag.etc.

Which would be better for obvious reasons for balance then the completly unbalanceable stratagem system and trait system we got now.

That's something we've agreed on for a while.

Now only if we could convince gw of our infinite wisdom.

Nope because their mess right now makes them money.

Do you honestly think that will happen.
Otoh we also got a new old rumor from BOLS, make of that what you want, over in the PA thread.

Not Online!!! wrote:


Do you really think the legions would care beyond more fodder?

BL would just pick them up and throw them at the enemy,
IW would be grumbly but not also not be bothered because attrition rates need replacement.

DG, WE, EC cult marines all can be made achieved via modification and support of respective gods. So that would also not be a real issue.

The renegades wouldn't care anyways.

Yes, wb would just see them as better vessels for daemons, al would see them as more operatives, 1ksons would just see opportunities for bigger spawn.

Just leaves one bunch of hardheaded psychopaths.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
What we need is a pricetag on traits.
Want to play Al, better be prepared for a higher pricetag.etc.

Which would be better for obvious reasons for balance then the completly unbalanceable stratagem system and trait system we got now.

That's something we've agreed on for a while.

Now only if we could convince gw of our infinite wisdom.

Spoiler:

i gave GW statistics off over 70 games about R&H and unit performance, they didn't bother.
Infact they bothered so not that R&H still has baseline non faqed issues to this day since the start of 8th. Like command voxes not working due to the random morale of the unit carrying it.
Too interactions of enforcers and morale rules, etc yadda yadda.

Nope because their mess right now makes them money.

Do you honestly think that will happen.
Otoh we also got a new old rumor from BOLS, make of that what you want, over in the PA thread.

I guess my sarcasm doesn't translate well to type.

And I take anything from BOLS with an Atlantic ocean sized grain of salt.

oh i perfectly understood that it was sarcasm, but at this point not even sarcasm makes me understand/ stomach GW's balancing and rules policy.

Also on the whole primaris schtick, look at eliminators and infiltrators and tell me you don't just see AL units.

Not Online!!! wrote:
oh i perfectly understood that it was sarcasm, but at this point not even sarcasm makes me understand/ stomach GW's balancing and rules policy.

Also on the whole primaris schtick, look at eliminators and infiltrators and tell me you don't just see AL units.

Yeah I see that.

And I know damn well those reivers should have some fething lightning bolts on their armour.

Gadzilla666 wrote:

I hope you're right. There's been speculation that his "new men" could be primaris chaos marines, which is a concept I hate. His assistant harvesting a primaris marine's progenoid doesn't bode well.

Nah. I think he'll just get a better buffing ability.

Possessed already fill the "Primaris" spot and I doubt GW would go an murder the investment they made on molds for CSM.

Not Online!!! wrote:
What we need is a pricetag on traits.
Want to play Al, better be prepared for a higher pricetag.etc.

Which would be better for obvious reasons for balance then the completly unbalanceable stratagem system and trait system we got now.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

As long as they keep them out of the legions I could live with that.

Do you really think the legions would care beyond more fodder?

BL would just pick them up and throw them at the enemy,
IW would be grumbly but not also not be bothered because attrition rates need replacement.

DG, WE, EC cult marines all can be made achieved via modification and support of respective gods. So that would also not be a real issue.

The renegades wouldn't care anyways.

What I would rather see is every ability applicable to a unit on their data sheet, with points at the bottom. Get rid of Warlord traits and just give characters a generic ability printed on their card. Get rid of the objective secured rule having 400 different names and just make it a basic "Troops have Objective Secured 9pg. xx of the BRB".

I really, really like the warscrolls from AoS and to be honest I like a AoS alot more than 40K. The games are a lot more swingy, which is something I like. I really enjoy suspense. There is nothing worse than looking at my opponents 40K army with his three Leviathan Butcher dreadnoughts and seeing exactly how the game will go on turn 1 if he get's to shoot first.

But I've had games of AoS where I was pummeling my opponent, and then out of nowhere a good maneuver or a few good die rolls and everything is flipped. Now I'm on the defensive and trying to find a way out of a trap or a bad spot. 40K just feels like "Spend XXX$, Win the game 80% of the time you play."

Not Online!!! wrote:
What we need is a pricetag on traits.
Want to play Al, better be prepared for a higher pricetag.etc.

Which would be better for obvious reasons for balance then the completly unbalanceable stratagem system and trait system we got now.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

As long as they keep them out of the legions I could live with that.

Do you really think the legions would care beyond more fodder?

BL would just pick them up and throw them at the enemy,
IW would be grumbly but not also not be bothered because attrition rates need replacement.

DG, WE, EC cult marines all can be made achieved via modification and support of respective gods. So that would also not be a real issue.

The renegades wouldn't care anyways.

Black legion will accept marines from any chapter or legion that will throw their lot in with chaos. There is a total mix of gene seed I the BL.

If they were thinking about Primaris CSM, I'd rather see better Chosen. Give them the extra wound, buff their shooting and close combat attacks.

 techsoldaten wrote:
If they were thinking about Primaris CSM, I'd rather see better Chosen. Give them the extra wound, buff their shooting and close combat attacks.

Why i speculated in the other thread we will get a chosen / possessed / new human kits?

TBF Chosen and the defiler are like possessed overdue for an release.

Not Online!!! wrote:
What we need is a pricetag on traits.
Want to play Al, better be prepared for a higher pricetag.etc.

Which would be better for obvious reasons for balance then the completly unbalanceable stratagem system and trait system we got now.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

As long as they keep them out of the legions I could live with that.

Do you really think the legions would care beyond more fodder?

BL would just pick them up and throw them at the enemy,
IW would be grumbly but not also not be bothered because attrition rates need replacement.

DG, WE, EC cult marines all can be made achieved via modification and support of respective gods. So that would also not be a real issue.

The renegades wouldn't care anyways.

Or they can redo the Legion traits so they're more even. An individual price tag on everything is obnoxious.

mrFickle wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:
What we need is a pricetag on traits.
Want to play Al, better be prepared for a higher pricetag.etc.

Which would be better for obvious reasons for balance then the completly unbalanceable stratagem system and trait system we got now.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

As long as they keep them out of the legions I could live with that.

Do you really think the legions would care beyond more fodder?

BL would just pick them up and throw them at the enemy,
IW would be grumbly but not also not be bothered because attrition rates need replacement.

DG, WE, EC cult marines all can be made achieved via modification and support of respective gods. So that would also not be a real issue.

The renegades wouldn't care anyways.

Black legion will accept marines from any chapter or legion that will throw their lot in with chaos. There is a total mix of gene seed I the BL.

That's because bl is the vanilla option. They're the Ultramarines of chaos.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 techsoldaten wrote:
If they were thinking about Primaris CSM, I'd rather see better Chosen. Give them the extra wound, buff their shooting and close combat attacks.

Why i speculated in the other thread we will get a chosen / possessed / new human kits?

TBF Chosen and the defiler are like possessed overdue for an release.

We need new Chosen. But they shouldn't be mutants or half daemons, they should be veterans. The true veterans of the long war.

From the codex I can’t see the point in chosen at all

mrFickle wrote:
From the codex I can’t see the point in chosen at all

Chosen are basically the future exalted champions.

Normally also got chosen by their god or are just equivalents for such Units in secular fashion.

If it was up to me the plan would be to return them to spectres of the past back to haunt their loyalists brothers.

Almost everything should be heresy era tech with the touch of chaos warping and changing them.

They should be a twisted mirror walking out of the warp reminding the Imperium and the Astartes of their past and what a lack of vigilance can lead to.

Or they can be the silly wombo combo dinobot Renegades I guess