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Not Online!!! wrote:


Not when Dice Stockholm is the developper. Other subdivisions have B teams, but DICE stockholm is more akin to the Z division.

As for the underlined there are SO MANY REASONS HOW that it is difficult:

But here a non complete list:

Marketing:

Spoiler:

Yeah, that is supposedly how a WW2 game of a franchise that prided itself in imersion, should look like.... What do you mean it doesn't ! YOu are AlL tHe FolLoWiNg!!!!!

- Calling fans uneducated." Even though there were just as many surprisingly good thought out argumentations against this.

- Telling fans to not buy it. " Well the numbers did show now didn't they.

The design:

Spoiler:

Overarching Design is and was a failure.
What do i mean by that:
-A life service which allready performed worse in the sales department doesn't get any "life" service.
-Pay to earn cosmetics.
- No community servers.
- Gamemode rotation on some of the bread and butter modes like rush.
- NOT HAVING THE TECHNOLOGY FOR A 2x XP event supposedly, even though all BF titles recently had a 2x event due to the virus. Tied in of course with the over grindy but skipable by money grind for cosmetcs. AKA Greed.

The actual game design:

Spoiler:

- No all kit weapons.
- Serious balance issues in weapon balancing often times self introduced in ttk changes. (type 2 a, MMG too good, too bad, )
- Attrition: A idea that went neither far enough nor needed implementation. Either or no half measures because the halfmeasure ATM in place is just bloody annoying.
- Vehicle balance issues, because the one thing BF1 did really bad (aka choosable vehicles instead of fixed spawns)they copied over.
-gak tier visibility. Even after a whole year. BF1 had genius 10 / 10 visibility compared to V and BF 1 allread yhad visibility issues.
- Bad map design. Something that Dice Stockholm started with BF4, and BFV completed in many ways, the maps first designed by artists and then actually getting into the hands of actual level designers leading to hillariously stupid designed maps. One sided as all hell.
- the women. Not as in they are there, even though as a history nut you might allready have issues with it for most factions (except the soviets). No what i mean here is beyond the completly ahistorical fact of their implementation they also scream louder then the 10 Handgreanades inevitable flying and detonating on you when you attempt to revive them.
- Dice Stockholm, including but not limited too: Rushjob, lack of understanding of the technology, lack of foresight , lack of skill as shown by early 4 aswell and 0 capability to actually make a Netcode work (same as bf4). Except BF4 got handed off to LA and turned into a great game.

Oh wow, I had no idea DICE Stockholm was the problem. Doubly surprised that LA was the reason 4 was so good, as I understand it they developed the first Star Wars Battlefront reboot which I thought was complete and total garbage. As to the rest of the post, yeah I agree that map design has been a huge problem with V. The only maps I've been genuinely excited to play are Devastation and Iwo Jima, everything else I either loathe or just... completely indifferent. I do really hate the 'life service' model. I was initially very excited about the prospect of free new maps, but considering how slow the support has been I honestly think I'd rather go back to the way BF1 did it. Yeah it cost more, but I at least got way more content.

I gave up on DICE a long time ago (if we're including developers). I laughed my butt off in the BFIII era, when I thought the franchise and the developer were already on a downhill slide and people were saying "It's EA's fault, not DICE" and I was like EA is in the name now, there's no difference.

 LordofHats wrote:
I gave up on DICE a long time ago (if we're including developers). I laughed my butt off in the BFIII era, when I thought the franchise and the developer were already on a downhill slide and people were saying "It's EA's fault, not DICE" and I was like EA is in the name now, there's no difference.

Ah man, I loved 3. Operation Metro, Kharg Island, Damavand Peak, Seine Crossing, Tehran Highway - that game was chock full of fantastic maps. Back to Kharkand was fantastic DLC too. There were definitely some things that drove me absolutely insane - USAS-12 with frag rounds and the broken as feth FAMAS when it first came out come to mind, but those were eventually addressed with patches so most of what I hated in the game was temporary.

 Da Boss wrote:
Hmmm oh, loads of stuff. I often get to a point where I just nope out on stuff.
Comic books:
- I was a huge batman fan until Chuck Dixon left and Grant Morrison started writing it. I despise the Grant Morrison version so much that I cannot go back to Batman now, the well is poisoned with all his stupid additions.

I hate literally everything Grant Morrison ever wrote. If there was a more self important no talent hack in the history of comics, I can't think of them.

 creeping-deth87 wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
I gave up on DICE a long time ago (if we're including developers). I laughed my butt off in the BFIII era, when I thought the franchise and the developer were already on a downhill slide and people were saying "It's EA's fault, not DICE" and I was like EA is in the name now, there's no difference.

Ah man, I loved 3. Operation Metro, Kharg Island, Damavand Peak, Seine Crossing, Tehran Highway - that game was chock full of fantastic maps. Back to Kharkand was fantastic DLC too. There were definitely some things that drove me absolutely insane - USAS-12 with frag rounds and the broken as feth FAMAS when it first came out come to mind, but those were eventually addressed with patches so most of what I hated in the game was temporary.

Atleast BF 3 had the audacity to actually work.
Allbeit the gunbalance was attrocious...

I got another one.

Shokugeki no Soma (aka Food Wars!) is a manga/anime series about food. And battles fought with food. It's basically if someone decided to make Iron Chef an academic institution and it was a really fun and inventive series that simultaneously took it's silly premise seriously enough to ratchet up the tension but played itself for enough laughs that it could be really funny when it wanted to be.

It was a really good battle series with a strong start that came out around the same time Naruto was ending so it basically had the world as an oyster.

And it promptly destroyed the oyster. I quit the series when it went into it's 3rd major story arc, introducing one characters hyper abusive dad (like seriously, I'm pretty sure Japan has CPS and this guy would not have been allowed to keep being a parent with a simple phone call) and a whole slew of characters inexplicably becoming hyper elitist donkey-caves for completely unclear reasons that even 50 chapters into the arc were not explained to the audience. It literally came off as these people just decided to be complete and total donkey-caves with no sense of basic humanity out of the blue. The series dove tailed rapidly into characters behaving like unbearable cartoon villains while pumping the stakes to insane levels in the process. It completely destroyed the serious but not too serious tone of the series up to that point and made it effectively unenjoyable.

I suspect I wasn't the only one, as while the manga continued for about 3 years after that arc started, it died a rapid and sudden death last year and I have heard literally no one lament its ending.

Essentially, the cooking skill of the characters outpaced the authors own knowledge and things fell apart once the cooking itself lost all practical application.

I gave up on the Xanth novels about 2 and a half books in. It was like being trapped with a sweaty, overexcited nerd who only speaks in puns.

 Gitkikka wrote:
I gave up on the Xanth novels about 2 and a half books in. It was like being trapped with a sweaty, overexcited nerd who only speaks in puns.

That means you got to miss out on the really creepy stuff. Not just the basic love-potion bestiality that spawned centaurs in Xanth, but the pedophilia and a really bizarre author rant at a fan letter, wherein he tells the reader he is dishonorable scum for saying that if a child is promised to an evil tyrant by his parents (an evil computer in the book, and Hitler in the letter), the kid should just refuse to work for him. For whatever reason, this offended Piers to the point that he spent a good page and a half insulting one his readers at the back of one the later books.

Even as a kid, the reader's logic was far more sensible. A person isn't required to do evil just because someone else promised they would.

---
Of course, for Piers Anthony, Xanth is the family friendly stuff.
His porn gets extremely offensive.

Phantom Menace killed Star Wars for me. I saw it opening day and was the first to speak when the credits began to roll and the lights went up... "What the Feth was that?"
I got more entertainment from the audience walking out of the theater and telling the next wave of movie goers to get their money back.
I went immediately went home and tossed my Star Wars stuff into a big box and gave it to some kids in my neighborhood.

Star Trek... I tried watching enterprise but T'pol only held my interest for so long. Anything after it is completely forgettable or stupid.

Sopranos... Once it started on Vito being gay and following the lesser characters I lost interest. Just like GoT it had been a great show for years that I would have recommended to anyone then it became a stupid story with an ending so bad that it never needs to be mentioned again (except when sharing tales of franchises we abandoned).

Comic books... Stopped reading and buying shortly after Joe Mad! stopped work on Battlechasers. As someone who bought comics for the art over the stories there have been very few comics I would even flip through in the last decade.

TV... I stopped watching TV back in '99. For years I barely watched anything unless it was DVDs or online videos.

40k... The introduction of Primaris and the return of Girlyman ruined the setting for me. I sold off all 40k models except a single Tin-Boy.

40k novels... I stopped somewhere in the Horus Heresys first 20 or so books. I just don't care anymore.

Ghostbusters... 2016 was the year I decided that most of the world doesn't deserve to live and I continue to hope that California sinks into the ocean.

Pretty much anything that has been "reinvented" in the last decade.

 DeffDred wrote:

I went immediately went home and tossed my Star Wars stuff into a big box and gave it to some kids in my neighborhood.

I've never totally understood this response. Like, I've never listened to a bad song by a band I like and thrown out their old albums.

 DeffDred wrote:


40k novels... I stopped somewhere in the Horus Heresys first 20 or so books. I just don't care anymore.

Mate, most of your post makes you just sound old, and a bitter old dude at that. . . (I get that this is a gripe thread, but still)


On the subject of 40k novels. . . I think I made it about that far into HH as well. The biggest issue for me was, you'd finish a book and go, "I just read 400 pages and literally nothing changed. Nothing really happened, there's no fething effects to what they did here??"

I haven't sold any of my warhammer stuff, but for me it wasn't so much any one thing as it was the position I was in. . . See, I spent a good year and a half or so as an on-call, and when I was in the shop (which frankly, was any time it was open and I wasn't in my uni classes at the time, except sundays) I felt compelled, as an employee to "be excited" for releases. There were some things I genuinely liked and genuinely got into, but there's only so much you can do before hitting a wall. The release cycle was relentless, there was no lull in "big" releases.

Within the setting itself, it really started feeling like a caricature of itself. . . GrimDark for the sake of GrimDark. And when the new book comes out its "hey!! look how grimdark we are! We're grimdarker than the last grimdark book from last week!!" In basically every other setting I've come across, be it game, video game, fantasy novel series, whatever, there isn't just this piling on dark and grim and blood, etc. . . There's usually an underlying reason behind something, and there's some form of resolution to it. For me, its gotten to the point where even the bolter-porn stories are just plain boring because all of the grimdark has become so blase.

 LunarSol wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:

I went immediately went home and tossed my Star Wars stuff into a big box and gave it to some kids in my neighborhood.

I've never totally understood this response. Like, I've never listened to a bad song by a band I like and thrown out their old albums.

Really, you seized on that comment rather than his comment that the world deserves death because the Ghostbusters remake was bad?

DeffDred wrote:Ghostbusters... 2016 was the year I decided that most of the world doesn't deserve to live and I continue to hope that California sinks into the ocean.

 LunarSol wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:

I went immediately went home and tossed my Star Wars stuff into a big box and gave it to some kids in my neighborhood.

I've never totally understood this response. Like, I've never listened to a bad song by a band I like and thrown out their old albums.

I can... sort of...

There have, occasionally, been a book so bad it poisoned not just the series, but everything the author had done. Piers Anthony, for example; his Bio of a Space Tyrant was so awful I dumped all of his books that I owned. Why? Because his writing style reminded me of those awful stories even in completely unrelated books. I just couldn't get past it and go back to enjoying them anymore.

But not every franchise;ending experience has been THAT bad to cause such an extreme reaction. Star Wars, for example; I LOATHE TLJ, didn't bother with RoS, and never got around to purchasing TFA. But I still love the OT and some of the novels. Even Rogue One still has a place in my heart. When Age of Sigmar crushed my hopes for a better balanced Warhammer Fantasy Battle, I didn't throw away my WFB stuff; I just looked for alternatives before settling down and just continuing to play WFB 8th.

Voss wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:

I went immediately went home and tossed my Star Wars stuff into a big box and gave it to some kids in my neighborhood.

I've never totally understood this response. Like, I've never listened to a bad song by a band I like and thrown out their old albums.

Really, you seized on that comment rather than his comment that the world deserves death because the Ghostbusters remake was bad?

DeffDred wrote:Ghostbusters... 2016 was the year I decided that most of the world doesn't deserve to live and I continue to hope that California sinks into the ocean.

I responded to the part I thought was worth a constructive conversation.

Joke’s on him. If the fifth largest economy in the world sinks into the ocean, he and his are looking at a much slower death. Haw haw [/Nelson]


But anyway, that bleak and pointless grimdark ruined the Old World for me. Well, it made me lose interest in the Army Books and GW canon, where every fight was pointless and eternal suffering at the hands of Chaos was inevitable. The BL novels that took place post Storm of Chaos weren’t quite so hopeless.

40k was in danger of going the same way, but I feel they sped up their own fluff-demise with the ridiculous retcons during 5th edition and the sad Gathering Storm-era and its apparent flinging of crap at walls to see what sticks.

 LunarSol wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:

I went immediately went home and tossed my Star Wars stuff into a big box and gave it to some kids in my neighborhood.

I've never totally understood this response. Like, I've never listened to a bad song by a band I like and thrown out their old albums.

While I haven't quite done this sort of thing, there have been instances where something has been done so poorly it ruined everything in a franchise for me. Mass Effect is probably the biggest one that springs to mind, because even going back and replaying ME1 or ME2, the ending actively undercuts so much of the narrative content, and retroactively inserts itself so many places (like sitting in an elevator in the Citadel in ME1 and thinking "hey...isn't that stupid starchild already floating here this whole time?") that it really just obliterated the fun from playing the rest of the story unless you actively pretend the story conclusion doesn't exist. Battlestar Galactica was another one, because the ending was so stupidly hamfisted, and in rewatching it there's just too many things that happen for no reason and never get tied up, that it's hard to get back into.

If we're discussing computer games as well...I gave up on 90% of them when DLC went from "an actual expansion which you add to an already complete game"...and became "Unlock actual normal game features and things in different colours".

In general, feth DLC of all shapes and sizes unless it's an actual expansion to an existing product.

This change impacted quite a few games I would have carried on playing. I stopped paying any attention to the Total War franchise (easily one of my favourite gaming franchises of all time) when you had to buy a DLC expansion for $3 to see blood in the game...get fethed.

I can kinda understand the blood and gore argument... If it cost a penny.

It's a simple case of, they want a lower age rating resulting in more copies of the game being sold. So by adding blood and gore as an age gated addon, that minimises the risk to the company.

But, by that argument, the price is arbitrary, and thus should be as cheap as humanly possible.

It is not.

 Elbows wrote:
If we're discussing computer games as well...I gave up on 90% of them when DLC went from "an actual expansion which you add to an already complete game"...and became "Unlock actual normal game features and things in different colours".

In general, feth DLC of all shapes and sizes unless it's an actual expansion to an existing product.

This change impacted quite a few games I would have carried on playing. I stopped paying any attention to the Total War franchise (easily one of my favourite gaming franchises of all time) when you had to buy a DLC expansion for $3 to see blood in the game...get fethed.

Oh yes, absolutely. That kind of bollocks can feth right off.

Remember when DLC was fun? Remember The Shimmering Isles? Point Lookout? Now it’s all ‘fork over more cash to play as the main character outside of story mode’ and other such nonsense. DLC used to be the fries to go with your burger...now it’s the fething cheese and dressing.

for games it was Doom 3, a very pretty tech demo that absolutely wasn't Doom, and the games media heaping praise on it like twas the second coming, don't think I've bought anything day 1 or full price ever since (maybe WoW but that was nerd herd pressure)

 Vaktathi wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:

I went immediately went home and tossed my Star Wars stuff into a big box and gave it to some kids in my neighborhood.

I've never totally understood this response. Like, I've never listened to a bad song by a band I like and thrown out their old albums.

While I haven't quite done this sort of thing, there have been instances where something has been done so poorly it ruined everything in a franchise for me. Mass Effect is probably the biggest one that springs to mind, because even going back and replaying ME1 or ME2, the ending actively undercuts so much of the narrative content, and retroactively inserts itself so many places (like sitting in an elevator in the Citadel in ME1 and thinking "hey...isn't that stupid starchild already floating here this whole time?") that it really just obliterated the fun from playing the rest of the story unless you actively pretend the story conclusion doesn't exist. Battlestar Galactica was another one, because the ending was so stupidly hamfisted, and in rewatching it there's just too many things that happen for no reason and never get tied up, that it's hard to get back into.

ME3 is one of the few times I've actually felt something truly ruined a great thing, but a lot of that comes down to just how many times the franchise had given exactly as it promised, with some of the best examples ironically being in ME3 itself. I've kind of gotten to the point where I can appreciate the franchise by just.... leaving the Star Child out. Shepard and Anderson, sitting in the Crucible as two friends potentially meeting their end looking out as all their work saves the galaxy. It's a good example of what I mean. As much as I DESPISE the end, being mad about it just robs me of some of my favorite moments in gaming. The end of the genophage and Geth war are two of the most satisfying arcs I've ever played and even the battle for Earth is utterly fantastic in the way it comes together. It's just that last bit that, honestly, you don't need to see to get a sense of finality to the story.

FWIW, one of the only other times I've really fully raged against something was One More Day. It's the only time I've felt the need to tear a comic in half just to know I destroyed it with my bare hands. A lot of that is personal though. When it was released, I'd been married for less than a year and my mother was dying of cancer. To this day it still makes it hard for me to read a mainline Spiderman comic. It's just not a character or world I can identify with anymore, even if I still greatly enjoy other incarnations of the character (PS4/MSU/Spiderverse/etc).

 LunarSol wrote:

Voss wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:

I went immediately went home and tossed my Star Wars stuff into a big box and gave it to some kids in my neighborhood.

I've never totally understood this response. Like, I've never listened to a bad song by a band I like and thrown out their old albums.

Really, you seized on that comment rather than his comment that the world deserves death because the Ghostbusters remake was bad?

DeffDred wrote:Ghostbusters... 2016 was the year I decided that most of the world doesn't deserve to live and I continue to hope that California sinks into the ocean.

I responded to the part I thought was worth a constructive conversation.

To be fair, he has a point about Ghostbusters. Anything that includes Melissa McCarthy should generate a response of that sort. TPM doesn’t ruin Star Wars as a whole. Neither does the abomination that is TLJ. The original trilogy is still a gem among sci-fi.

 Compel wrote:
I can kinda understand the blood and gore argument... If it cost a penny.

It's a simple case of, they want a lower age rating resulting in more copies of the game being sold. So by adding blood and gore as an age gated addon, that minimises the risk to the company.
.

Well, not just that. There are countries they just can't sell in if that's part of the 'base game,' though that used mean disabling it. Like the UK copies of Fallout 1 & 2 mysteriously had no children in them, so Interplay didn't fall foul of UK violence against virtual children laws.

That said, I think TW blood effects often look awful, like someone dipped a mini in a red paint pot. So I'd rather not have them anyway.

 Future War Cultist wrote:


Remember when DLC was fun? Remember The Shimmering Isles? Point Lookout? Now it’s all ‘fork over more cash to play as the main character outside of story mode’ and other such nonsense. DLC used to be the fries to go with your burger...now it’s the fething cheese and dressing.

Uhh. . . did you forget that Shivering Isles was part of the same game that offered horse armor??

Now, granted that particular sin pales in comparison to many of the common games that are out now. . . Was talking to the other video gamer at my work about DLC and he pointed out there was apparently a DOA6 "all included" bundle on Steam (when I was looking just now, it wasn't there) with literally every single DLC, all the costumes, hair color, options, etc. DLC, would run you over $1,000 . . . which is frankly, absolutely ridiculous, especially when there's no additional story for any of it. . . it's not like you buy "Tina's school girl costume" and you get a special story mission to go with it.

A couple days ago, the moment I started something and the moment I gave up on it happened within hours. I bought the first volume of Cerebus the Aardvark on comixology, finally checking out what made it so popular and if there was any hint of the controversy that dogged it later.

Nothing of either of those. It was unbelievably boring. Incessant hand-wringing about how society is awful and everyone is an evil moron, that you've heard a million times before, by this time. Like Howard the Duck in chainmail, like the spiritual grandaddy of Garth Ennis. But Dave Sim can't even weave a decent or entertaining satire out of it. Most of the attempts at humour involve pastiches of well-known characters, like the Batman guy dressed up as a cockroach, or 'Elrod of Melvinbone' talking like Foghorn Leghorn, or the guy who's straight-up Groucho Marx. Those get old real fast. Most of the rest of it involves the evil-sociopath-of-the-week (or our 'good' sociopath protagonist) droning on at length about the political or military situation and their convoluted plan to manipulate it for their own gain - good grief, Dave, ever heard of 'show don't tell'? - until they slip on a metaphorical banana peel and it all comes crashing down.

I ended up skimming page after page of speech bubbles, waiting for something to happen. Then it ended.

 LunarSol wrote:


ME3 is one of the few times I've actually felt something truly ruined a great thing, but a lot of that comes down to just how many times the franchise had given exactly as it promised, with some of the best examples ironically being in ME3 itself.

I can relate to this feeling. I thought ME2 was a god awful game. To even call it a game even was a slight against the genre in my eyes. ME2 wasn't a game, it was a glorified expansion pack of side quests. The great characters it introduced, improved combat over its predecessor, and the great development of already good characters couldn't salvage what was to me a complete misfire of an experience that felt all to haphazardly thrown together for all the polish it had.

ME3 started out feeling like a return to form. The best parts of ME2's game play improvements but a return to the gripping, epic, storytelling of the first game with some great resolutions to a whole lot of plot threads that really restored my faith. There were some powerful moments in 3. Things that I think took a lot of talent and effort to pull together in any way, let alone a good one. My faith was restored. Then the ending came and my only thought was 'bs.' The ending ruined it all for me. About the only thing I enjoyed after that was the pretty damn good co-op they put together. Up until some technical issues and customer service failures made me stop even liking that. Thinking about it now, yeah, the quality of the game before the ending actually makes me loath the game even more than if it had just been more gutter garbage like ME2. If everything before that ending had been as bad as the ending was, I probably would have just shrugged and walked away instead of feeling betrayed and cheated.

That's it also the game where I effectively gave up on Bioware.

The Spellpurge and forgotten realms. I was a big fan of forgotten realms, read as many of the books as I could, bought the sourcebooks etc. (I did play games in FR but I also bought em because I wanted to know about the setting)
the Spellpurge just killed my intreast. it turned the setting into something I could no longer reckongize

LunarSol wrote:

 DeffDred wrote:

I went immediately went home and tossed my Star Wars stuff into a big box and gave it to some kids in my neighborhood.

I've never totally understood this response. Like, I've never listened to a bad song by a band I like and thrown out their old albums.

When I started learning music theory after I picked up guitar it changed the way I looked at probably half to two thirds of the music I listened to. I dropped all those CDs off at my older brother's house with no regrets. So I can understand the response.

BrianDavion wrote:The Spellpurge and forgotten realms. I was a big fan of forgotten realms, read as many of the books as I could, bought the sourcebooks etc. (I did play games in FR but I also bought em because I wanted to know about the setting)
the Spellpurge just killed my intreast. it turned the setting into something I could no longer reckongize

As a WFB fan and player, I can feel your pain...

 Elbows wrote:
If we're discussing computer games as well...I gave up on 90% of them when DLC went from "an actual expansion which you add to an already complete game"...and became "Unlock actual normal game features and things in different colours".

In general, feth DLC of all shapes and sizes unless it's an actual expansion to an existing product.

This change impacted quite a few games I would have carried on playing. I stopped paying any attention to the Total War franchise (easily one of my favourite gaming franchises of all time) when you had to buy a DLC expansion for $3 to see blood in the game...get fethed.

Nowadays you must be happy if the game even comes playbale. Looking at you bethesda, bioware, EA, and consorts. the whole attitude atleast TW only has 2 such failures in an overall decent series. Tbf though these two even hurt more because of Sega also milking DLC.