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 Oguhmek wrote:
Rampant speculation, but this might be part of a new Pariah model:



So, the Silent King returns from beyond the edge of the galaxy with these new abominations - human blanks, kidnapped and dismembered, then implanted into a living metal body. On their backs they carry these pieces of Noctilith, to amplify their null fields.

Alternatively, since this is another rumour that is doing the rounds, it is the mad Cryptek Illuminator Szeras who is the one returning, with his deranged creations in tow.

Let's just hope they get interesting rules and not just a -1 to cast psychic powers in a 9" bubble or something else that is equally useless.

We've had rumours of a new Szeras model popping up, didn't we? He is a more likely figurehead for the Pariahs than The Silent King. I don't really think someone wanting to return to their original forms turning their potential solution into more of them.

I suspect that rumour engine pic may be for as unseen Big Mek with KFF model.

Rules are in the latest PA book.

 Segersgia wrote:

 Oguhmek wrote:
Rampant speculation, but this might be part of a new Pariah model:



So, the Silent King returns from beyond the edge of the galaxy with these new abominations - human blanks, kidnapped and dismembered, then implanted into a living metal body. On their backs they carry these pieces of Noctilith, to amplify their null fields.

Alternatively, since this is another rumour that is doing the rounds, it is the mad Cryptek Illuminator Szeras who is the one returning, with his deranged creations in tow.

Let's just hope they get interesting rules and not just a -1 to cast psychic powers in a 9" bubble or something else that is equally useless.

We've had rumours of a new Szeras model popping up, didn't we? He is a more likely figurehead for the Pariahs than The Silent King. I don't really think someone wanting to return to their original forms turning their potential solution into more of them.

Or the new incarnation of Pariah could be a biotransference test subject, a necron who managed to transfer his conscientiousness into an organic form, albeit with some noticeable side effects, such as, for example, blank like effects.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I suspect that rumour engine pic may be for as unseen Big Mek with KFF model.

Rules are in the latest PA book.

Nah the design is all wrong for Orks. It's defo a necron piece in the middle, though outside chance it's something Ad Mech stole from them judging by the outer casing.

I see nothing Orky there.

It's not a Mek as it's got too many smooth edges for Orks and the glyph is not Orks related, it's Necron.

I don't see Necron Pariahs or a variant returning as being game changing in the fluff. Imperium dies t rely on psykers to be effective so fluff wise only daemons would really care tbh.

More likely from a fluff point of view:Silent King returns and we do see something happening regarding blanks, but it'll end with the main body of the Hive Fleet being right behind him. That's the darkness and it'd allow a new campaign leading into 9th or serve as the basis for 9th.

If Pariahs are changed to carry around bits of Blackstone, that would be incredibly dumb.

There would be no reason not to just strap lumps of rock to any old Necron construct to deaden the warp at that point (although they've already made Necrons look really dumb,and muddied the waters terribly with regards to blackstone as it is).

 bullyboy wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Sisters line is too new to really add anything to this release.

You know CSM were right before the Sisters and they got multiple new models in PA? Is their line a week too old to be declared 'new'?

ah yes, the old Faith and Fury.."w're not done with marines, just yet!". Forgot about that.

It's possible sisters will get custom orders I guess, but I don't think we will see new strats or relics though. I still hope for Stern, would be a great character to add.

Trouble is, if it's all 4 of the remaining factions (which we don;t know), someone is getting minimal support since you can't fully flesh out every faction. If Deathwatch are in it, they will at least get Chaplain litanies, maybe a new Phobos kill team, etc, so will probably eat a chunk because marines (not anti-marine, I have Deathwatch). Hoping more for Harlequins and Necrons though really.

A Vanguard Marine Killteam that translates into rules for Deathwatch Vanguard Marine Killteam rules for Killteam would be ace.

 Irbis wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Sisters line is too new to really add anything to this release.

You know CSM were right before the Sisters and they got multiple new models in PA? Is their line a week too old to be declared 'new'?

'Multiple' = 1 Sorcerer. Got it. And Fabius Bile. Got it.

You are aware that between CSM and Sisters there was the 2.0 SM Codex? So the multiple new 'rules' that CSM got I suspect were to try and adjust the ridiculously out of scale balance?

 bullyboy wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Sisters line is too new to really add anything to this release.

You know CSM were right before the Sisters and they got multiple new models in PA? Is their line a week too old to be declared 'new'?

ah yes, the old Faith and Fury.."w're not done with marines, just yet!". Forgot about that.

It's possible sisters will get custom orders I guess, but I don't think we will see new strats or relics though. I still hope for Stern, would be a great character to add.

Trouble is, if it's all 4 of the remaining factions (which we don;t know), someone is getting minimal support since you can't fully flesh out every faction. If Deathwatch are in it, they will at least get Chaplain litanies, maybe a new Phobos kill team, etc, so will probably eat a chunk because marines (not anti-marine, I have Deathwatch). Hoping more for Harlequins and Necrons though really.

I think Custom orders maybe a bit more for Sisters is most likely. I can;t see Stern as thats a whole new model and they are rare with these campaigns.

 Apple Peel wrote:

A Vanguard Marine Killteam that translates into rules for Deathwatch Vanguard Marine Killteam rules for Killteam would be ace.

They've been pretty adamant that they don't want Vanguard stuff for Deathwatch. Hopefully they stick to their guns, because we don't need another time of "Deathwatch are Marines+1".

Edit:
And before someone jumps in with "But Reivers are Vanguard!". Sure they are...but they only seem to be acknowledged as Vanguard post-Codex drop. The original intention may have been for them to be something else.

 Lord Damocles wrote:


There would be no reason not to just strap lumps of rock to any old Necron construct to deaden the warp at that point (although they've already made Necrons look really dumb,and muddied the waters terribly with regards to blackstone as it is).

What do you mean ? Did they change anything about Blackstone ?

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:

A Vanguard Marine Killteam that translates into rules for Deathwatch Vanguard Marine Killteam rules for Killteam would be ace.

They've been pretty adamant that they don't want Vanguard stuff for Deathwatch. Hopefully they stick to their guns, because we don't need another time of "Deathwatch are Marines+1".

Did they? Afaik they just didn't give them access yet. But if you are right, I definitely hope they do not stick to their guns because Deathwatch and Raven Guard are the prime Chapters for Vanguard tactics - so it would be a shame if DW wouldn't get more Phobos squads...

I don't need a Phobos Kill Team, but hell, I want to have those Eliminators and pick out my friends annoying Aeldari witch characters

Pyrosphere wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:

A Vanguard Marine Killteam that translates into rules for Deathwatch Vanguard Marine Killteam rules for Killteam would be ace.

They've been pretty adamant that they don't want Vanguard stuff for Deathwatch. Hopefully they stick to their guns, because we don't need another time of "Deathwatch are Marines+1".

Did they? Afaik they just didn't give them access yet. But if you are right, I definitely hope they do not stick to their guns because Deathwatch and Raven Guard are the prime Chapters for Vanguard tactics - so it would be a shame if DW wouldn't get more Phobos squads...

Deathwatch aren't "prime Chapter" for anything like what you're discussing, really. The whole purpose of them is the mix of expertise...and it's worth mentioning that Vanguard are usually full-blooded veteran Astartes. The kinds that aren't easily handed over to the Deathwatch.

I don't need a Phobos Kill Team, but hell, I want to have those Eliminators and pick out my friends annoying Aeldari witch characters

You're more likely to get the whole "Stalker Bolt Rifles can single out characters" bit.

 DarkStarSabre wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Sisters line is too new to really add anything to this release.

You know CSM were right before the Sisters and they got multiple new models in PA? Is their line a week too old to be declared 'new'?

'Multiple' = 1 Sorcerer. Got it. And Fabius Bile. Got it.

You are aware that between CSM and Sisters there was the 2.0 SM Codex? So the multiple new 'rules' that CSM got I suspect were to try and adjust the ridiculously out of scale balance?

I will remind people that we still don't have a new model for lucius the eternal. Not that I'm expecting him in this release or any release soon, probably the next chaos release.

A big mek with KFF would have been great but Orks have now gone with only Gazzy for new models.

Both of these models will likely be in the next respective codex release (whenever that maybe).

I'm guessing GW will try to rid itself of finecast/fill in any missing models at each of its next codex releases.
As well as give the players at least one new unit, is my guess.
That is assuming they don't go for a completely new army/army redo (a la Sisters) next.

The possibilities look pretty open but I have my fingers crossed for plastic guard (Valhallan, Mordian Iron Guard etc...) for all of the current metals/finecast.

Removed - Stay on topic

 Kanluwen wrote:

Pyrosphere wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Apple Peel wrote:

A Vanguard Marine Killteam that translates into rules for Deathwatch Vanguard Marine Killteam rules for Killteam would be ace.

They've been pretty adamant that they don't want Vanguard stuff for Deathwatch. Hopefully they stick to their guns, because we don't need another time of "Deathwatch are Marines+1".

Did they? Afaik they just didn't give them access yet. But if you are right, I definitely hope they do not stick to their guns because Deathwatch and Raven Guard are the prime Chapters for Vanguard tactics - so it would be a shame if DW wouldn't get more Phobos squads...

Deathwatch aren't "prime Chapter" for anything like what you're discussing, really. The whole purpose of them is the mix of expertise...and it's worth mentioning that Vanguard are usually full-blooded veteran Astartes. The kinds that aren't easily handed over to the Deathwatch.

If you think he means Vanguard Veterans, you are still wrong, because the Deathwatch has those, because the fluff has always said that most of the time its Veterans that are sent, with a few exceptions being punishments usually. Veterans have the most knowledge to spread around and share.

He means the Vanguard Marines that are made up of the Phobos Armor guys, that the Deathwatch most certainly could use.

 godardc wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:


There would be no reason not to just strap lumps of rock to any old Necron construct to deaden the warp at that point (although they've already made Necrons look really dumb,and muddied the waters terribly with regards to blackstone as it is).

What do you mean ? Did they change anything about Blackstone ?

Things like Necron tomb structures being made of Blackstone, but seemingly not blackstone which has been made warp repelling yet. Imagine how monstrously dumb you'd have to be to base your architecture on a material which can be either made to repel or attract the warp, and then... just not. Blackstone doesn't appear to require any sort of power source to remain active, so there's no excuse for it.
It's not even clear whether 'raw' Blackstone is even a thing - ie. it might all be worked - which would make the situation even worse!

Or knocking the top off of a small pillar in Forgebane causing the entire complex's (world's?) blackstone system to immediately fail. So even repelling Blackstone doesn't do anything without a 'focus'?

Or the Imperium seemingly not knowing about Blackstone until Cawl 'discovers' it. Despite the fact that they were sitting on top of Cadia and six Blackstone Fortresses, amongst other sites, for millenia, and Inquisitors (and the Sororitas now) were using null rods.

Or anti-warp Blackstone being able to be made more powerful by chaotic warp-based sorcery in The Emperor's Legion (what!?)

The Necrons/Technomandrites are searching for Blackstone. But why? - their tombs are literally made of the stuff! We're told that Necron tomb worlds are rich in Blackstone (it's not clear it this is in reference to that used in Necron architecture or raw deposits) so they shouldn't have to look very far.

If natural Blackstone exists (ie. material which hasn't been worked by the Necrons), then why would they possibly build their tombs on planets rich in material which could become a major warp attractor?

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

If you think he means Vanguard Veterans, you are still wrong, because the Deathwatch has those, because the fluff has always said that most of the time its Veterans that are sent, with a few exceptions being punishments usually. Veterans have the most knowledge to spread around and share.
He means the Vanguard Marines that are made up of the Phobos Armor guys, that the Deathwatch most certainly could use.

You must have missed where I literally referred to "except for Reivers" earlier, eh?

Fun fact: the Vanguard aren't in Deathwatch. I'm not referring to "Vanguard Veterans". I'm referring to the Vanguard Company, which is the 10th Company now in addition to Scouts.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

If you think he means Vanguard Veterans, you are still wrong, because the Deathwatch has those, because the fluff has always said that most of the time its Veterans that are sent, with a few exceptions being punishments usually. Veterans have the most knowledge to spread around and share.
He means the Vanguard Marines that are made up of the Phobos Armor guys, that the Deathwatch most certainly could use.

You must have missed where I literally referred to "except for Reivers" earlier, eh?

Fun fact: the Vanguard aren't in Deathwatch. I'm not referring to "Vanguard Veterans". I'm referring to the Vanguard Company, which is the 10th Company now in addition to Scouts.

Except that any marine can strip his Tacitus armor down for appropriate situations and perform Vanguard operations, per the Vanguard Marines materials. Prime example being the chapter master of the Raven Guard.

Vanguard absolutely should be in Deathwatch. They fulfill a role that suits the needs of the Deathwatch. I would expect them to be added. A phobos kill team made up of Incursors, infiltrators, Suppressors with SIA on Incursors....yes please.

Scouts with Vet stats should've been in Deathwatch to begin with.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Scouts with Vet stats should've been in Deathwatch to begin with.

A time to right wrongs, then. With a new scout kit, too, in a dream.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

If you think he means Vanguard Veterans, you are still wrong, because the Deathwatch has those, because the fluff has always said that most of the time its Veterans that are sent, with a few exceptions being punishments usually. Veterans have the most knowledge to spread around and share.
He means the Vanguard Marines that are made up of the Phobos Armor guys, that the Deathwatch most certainly could use.

You must have missed where I literally referred to "except for Reivers" earlier, eh?

Fun fact: the Vanguard aren't in Deathwatch. I'm not referring to "Vanguard Veterans". I'm referring to the Vanguard Company, which is the 10th Company now in addition to Scouts.

You dont say, the group I said wasnt in Deathwatch ISNT in Deathwatch? I simply cannot believe it, not one bit. No Sir.

We're saying they should be. There's not really a reason for them not to be. Except what ever made up notions you have for it.

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 VictorVonTzeentch wrote:

If you think he means Vanguard Veterans, you are still wrong, because the Deathwatch has those, because the fluff has always said that most of the time its Veterans that are sent, with a few exceptions being punishments usually. Veterans have the most knowledge to spread around and share.
He means the Vanguard Marines that are made up of the Phobos Armor guys, that the Deathwatch most certainly could use.

You must have missed where I literally referred to "except for Reivers" earlier, eh?

Fun fact: the Vanguard aren't in Deathwatch. I'm not referring to "Vanguard Veterans". I'm referring to the Vanguard Company, which is the 10th Company now in addition to Scouts.

You dont say, the group I said wasnt in Deathwatch ISNT in Deathwatch? I simply cannot believe it, not one bit. No Sir.

We're saying they should be. There's not really a reason for them not to be. Except what ever made up notions you have for it.

That's what I meant with prime Chapters for Vanguard Marines (=Phobos armor).
Besides having diferrent expertise among the individual marines (where I agree with Kanluwen), the Deathwatch's main tactics still are stealth (SEAL-/SAS-style, not guerilla like Raven Guard) and surgical strikes against the commanders of enemy forces. You simply can't face the enemy eye to eye when your whole biggest watch fortress consists of max. 100-200 marines (Talasa Prime) - and you may also have to split these numbers over multiple xeno threads at the same time.

The Deathwatch's main tactics are that they have no main tactics. Their tactical flexibility is the whole thing that Deathwatch are supposed to be famed for.

It's really bizarre though that people are saying Deathwatch's perceived "main tactics"(which again, there are none) are somehow different than the Raven Guard's or Astartes tactics in general. They always tend to favor strikes against the command structures of enemy forces. They always tend to be outnumbered and spread their forces over multiple warzones.

The key difference between 'normal Marines' and Deathwatch is that Deathwatch draws upon different expertise across their squad members because of the fact they have the different Chapters mixed in...and because they have equipment bordering on heretek levels that the standard Chapters don't.

Where DW have traditionally been different is that they were never a fully fledged force before... You would very rarely have multiple kill teams working on an operation. Before this change they were special forces marines. They sort of still are that now, they just operate at large on the table top, and don't have as many rules as before (all could deep strike/infiltrate etc).

I preferred their past version, but I preferred grey knights when you would only get 1 squad and they'd all be terminators as well.

DW are still very specialised, but they also are super flexible to demonstrate that specialism.

DW could possibly benefit from a Dark Eldar type arrangement. Lots of smaller FoC stuff, to represent different Teams converging?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
DW could possibly benefit from a Dark Eldar type arrangement. Lots of smaller FoC stuff, to represent different Teams converging?

I'd very much like them to return to being able to take a squad within another imperial army (auxiliary detachment) without having to pay the command point penalty. Maybe some extra options for that squad such as a librarian or captain being embedded. I like options.

I'd like the same for Grey Knights as well.

So sisters confirmed for pariah. Removed - Rule #1 please

Dw in wd bit of a surprise.

Not only DW in WD, but Harlis too.

Bet they'll be different issues as well.

What a joke...