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Deathwatch already have Shock Assault and Bolter Discipline. No mention of re-writing the latter to function with SIA,. Ditto with Doctrines, given the way they're explicitly written not to stack with other AP modifiers.

And literally everything else showcased is a copy-paste from Marines 2.0.

Not encouraging.

Sterling191 wrote:
Deathwatch already have Shock Assault and Bolter Discipline. No mention of re-writing the latter to function with SIA,. Ditto with Doctrines, given the way they're explicitly written not to stack with other AP modifiers.

And literally everything else showcased is a copy-paste from Marines 2.0.

Not encouraging.

GW not understanding their own rules? Say it ain't so!

Also I like they only previewed Strats we knew we would be getting.

Not to mention the Duty Eternal Strat is the pre-FAQ one. It's only -1D now, not half.

Definitely a bit disappointing, but I'll take this over nothing.

Even if we've had half of it for months now anyway.

I guess SIA really only exists for hellfire and range bonuses now?

Lemondish wrote:
Definitely a bit disappointing, but I'll take this over nothing.

Even if we've had half of it for months now anyway.

I guess SIA really only exists for hellfire and range bonuses now?

Well the new AP mechanic killed the point of Vengeance as it'll hardly fire twice, and they stopped a potential niche of Dragonfire by not adding Ignore Cover in addition to the +1 to hit mechanic. Dragonfire as shown is an easy fix but there isn't a lot you can do to Vengeance without it overtaking the other Ammo types. When I was actively trying to homebrew rules that part always had me stuck.

Lemondish wrote:

I guess SIA really only exists for hellfire and range bonuses now?

That's hardly new. Hellfire is usually the correct choice as is. Hellfire with an AP bonus is nothing to scoff at.

It is an absolute zero effort update, pretty crappy actually. Doesn't look like they got a super doctrine (OK with that) or their own litany (not cool). It's basically someone handing the reigns to an intern and saying "just copy/paste relevant marine stuff to deathwatch, and grab me a coffee, cheers".

I'm sure I'll still use it as they will benefit from some of the strats, and there might now be a use for DW chaplains, but still a 1/10 for effort.

No custom litany is particularly lame, as is no super doctrine / psychic lore (access to Telesthesia Discipline even?), purely from a consistency standpoint, but maybe there's some blah-blah fluff excuse like they're all from different chapters and whatever. Does seem like an extremely low-effort update. Doing minimal work to tie in some Inquisition stuff would have been cool, tho I suppose there aren't too many dedicated models to sell in that line.

I will note in passing that DW will now have ~37 strats? That seems like a thing? I'm getting back into Daemons and my Tzeentch bois have 10, 1 of which does nothing thanks to FAQ and 2 of which are for summoning.

 Boss Salvage wrote:
No custom litany is particularly lame, as is no super doctrine / psychic lore (access to Telesthesia Discipline even?), purely from a consistency standpoint, but maybe there's some blah-blah fluff excuse like they're all from different chapters and whatever. Does seem like an extremely low-effort update. Doing minimal work to tie in some Inquisition stuff would have been cool, tho I suppose there aren't too many dedicated models to sell in that line.

I will note in passing that DW will now have ~37 strats? That seems like a thing? I'm getting back into Daemons and my Tzeentch bois have 10, 1 of which does nothing thanks to FAQ and 2 of which are for summoning.

Yeah, at this point ultramarines have 57 available stratagems. bloat for the bloat god! Wooooooooo....

Given how....inspired this white dwarf update is looking for DW, I can't wait for what Harlequins get. Are they gonna just randomly copy/paste stratagems from the drukhari, craftworld and ynnari lists and change the names? is it going to just be a name generator and a custom masque generator with traits from the existing masques?

 bullyboy wrote:
Not to mention the Duty Eternal Strat is the pre-FAQ one. It's only -1D now, not half.

Well, Space Wolves also still have the old one (and old Doctrines) until (presumably) there is a Saga of the Beast FAQ.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Not to mention the Duty Eternal Strat is the pre-FAQ one. It's only -1D now, not half.

Well, Space Wolves also still have the old one (and old Doctrines) until (presumably) there is a Saga of the Beast FAQ.

Man oh man am I such a huge fan of these great bespoke rules. Imagine now terrible it would be if gw went to some kind of awful system where multiple armies had access to the same units and those units had identical rules or point costs or abilities.

Maybe it's intended. Can DW abuse this stratagem or not ? If not maybe it's intentional

They really can't abuse it but its likely to change. GW is in a sloppy gap of trying to be consistent, but still hard coding values instead of passing parameters.

I really hope if they do go the White Dward rule as stated, that they at least give you a free pdf update after the white dwarf is discontinued. Having rules in White Dwarf sucks.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I really hope if they do go the White Dward rule as stated, that they at least give you a free pdf update after the white dwarf is discontinued. Having rules in White Dwarf sucks.

You must be new here.

Curious if Necrons get anything out of Pariah. Stern and her clown buddy aren't enough to fill a whole book and with the other two remaining armies shoved into White Dwarf, I can't help but get the feeling GW intends to reveal something big for Necrons when they continue their online previews.

May not happen with how Psychic Awakening is perceived as a disappointment by many, but I like the idea of Necrons getting some new models. It's been a while.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I really hope if they do go the White Dward rule as stated, that they at least give you a free pdf update after the white dwarf is discontinued. Having rules in White Dwarf sucks.

Depending on how long GW wants Psychic Awakening to be relevant, they can just reprint the Death Watch and Harlequin rules in this year's Chapter Approved. Free filler FTW!

 bullyboy wrote:
It is an absolute zero effort update, pretty crappy actually. Doesn't look like they got a super doctrine (OK with that) or their own litany (not cool). It's basically someone handing the reigns to an intern and saying "just copy/paste relevant marine stuff to deathwatch, and grab me a coffee, cheers".

I'm sure I'll still use it as they will benefit from some of the strats, and there might now be a use for DW chaplains, but still a 1/10 for effort.

Its not even a 1/10. The bare minimum they needed to do was bring Deathwatch up to par with 2.0 Marines, yet they managed to completely feth that up.

Inconsistant and lazy rules writing is perfectly fine for casual play, doncha know

That was really disappointing. Hopefully DW becomes a proper supplement/rolled into a proper Inquisition book for 9th.

 Eldarain wrote:
That was really disappointing. Hopefully DW becomes a proper supplement/rolled into a proper Inquisition book for 9th.

I'd love to see DW/GK/Sisters/Inquisition turned into a single Codex.

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
Inconsistant and lazy rules writing is perfectly fine for casual play, doncha know

Hah!

 Luke_Prowler wrote:
Inconsistant and lazy rules writing is perfectly fine for casual play, doncha know

Depends what you're looking for. It lacks any new feel to the force, very uninspiring. You know who do benefit from this? Competitive types, not narrative. So your point was basically wrong, but lazy writing is still lazy writing.

Sterling191 wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
I really hope if they do go the White Dward rule as stated, that they at least give you a free pdf update after the white dwarf is discontinued. Having rules in White Dwarf sucks.

You must be new here.

I'm not. It happend to Sisters and that's how I know how much it sucks.

 LunarSol wrote:
I'd love to see DW/GK/Sisters/Inquisition turned into a single Codex.

Why? Especially, why Sisters, when in the fluff they have always been a standalone army, that is much MUCH more related to the Ecclersiarchy than the Inquisition?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Why? Especially, why Sisters, when in the fluff they have always been a standalone army, that is much MUCH more related to the Ecclersiarchy than the Inquisition?

Theyre the Orders Militant of the three major Inquisition branches.

Sterling191 wrote:
Theyre the Orders Militant of the three major Inquisition branches.

For one whole edition lol.
They started as the militant arm of the Ecclesiarchy. After Inquisitor the 54mm game, they added some flimsy justification for them being the Order Militant of the Ordo Hereticus. They basically never used that fluff afterward. Nothing in the current codex speaks about this.
So...

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
Theyre the Orders Militant of the three major Inquisition branches.

For one whole edition lol.
They started as the militant arm of the Ecclesiarchy. After Inquisitor the 54mm game, they added some flimsy justification for them being the Order Militant of the Ordo Hereticus. They basically never used that fluff afterward. Nothing in the current codex speaks about this.
So...

yeah GW's been explictly moving AWAY from the "flunkies of the inqusition" since 6th edition or so

BrianDavion wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Sterling191 wrote:
Theyre the Orders Militant of the three major Inquisition branches.

For one whole edition lol.
They started as the militant arm of the Ecclesiarchy. After Inquisitor the 54mm game, they added some flimsy justification for them being the Order Militant of the Ordo Hereticus. They basically never used that fluff afterward. Nothing in the current codex speaks about this.
So...

yeah GW's been explictly moving AWAY from the "flunkies of the inqusition" since 6th edition or so

Which is FINE for fluff, but in terms of rules it's bloat of codices.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Which is FINE for fluff, but in terms of rules it's bloat of codices.

So?

Just merge the Xenos ones instead.

Sunny Side Up wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

Which is FINE for fluff, but in terms of rules it's bloat of codices.

So?

Just merge the Xenos ones instead.

yeah I mean Eldar and dark eldar aren't that differant, I mean, they're both elves! that's as much in common as grey knights and sisters of battle have.

MERGE THE ELDAR CODICES!

 bullyboy wrote:
Not to mention the Duty Eternal Strat is the pre-FAQ one. It's only -1D now, not half.

Does this mean that its already outdated before the WD is released ? Was the WD already printed before they nerfed it ?