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60 CAD dollars? Holy smokes, I get that it's a new plastic model and the characters have always been expensive, but from 25/30 CAD to double is kinda crazy considering he's not even the racial big honcho.

 Grimskul wrote:
60 CAD dollars? Holy smokes, I get that it's a new plastic model and the characters have always been expensive, but from 25/30 CAD to double is kinda crazy considering he's not even the racial big honcho.

He's huge though, you can see him in this image:

My original plan was to pick up book, stern/kyganil, Inquisitor, and maybe daemonifuge. Now that I actually look at the prices here, doubt that will happen in one go. I'll probably at least get the book, and then add the models later. Maybe I'll get stern at same time, but Inquisitor can wait if I even get her at all.

That’s about as big as a Daemon Prince isn’t it? If you put his base level with the Lychguard bases, they’ll be about that tall, maybe Guilliman height? I really hope he’s bellow 10 wounds!

 Tiberius501 wrote:
That’s about as big as a Daemon Prince isn’t it? If you put his base level with the Lychguard bases, they’ll be about that tall, maybe Guilliman height? I really hope he’s bellow 10 wounds!

Yeah, if he has 10 or more wounds, unless he has some other special rule he'll just be shot off the table first turn. I'm hoping he has 9 or less as well.

I'd have to double check my Daemon prince, but Szeras looks bigger overall.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/25/pariah-ephrael-stern-kyganil-of-the-bloody-tearsgw-homepage-post-3/

The preview for Stern and Kyganil is up.

She seems very handy if she's pointed sensibly.

"Think of it as a mini Smite..." Except it is better lol.

Will be interesting to see their points cost.

he is pretty underwhelming, 8 attacks is nice but S3 isn't scaring anyone. He's basically a 5+++ tax

I really wish GW would learn what parentheses are actually used for.


That aside, I couldn't help but notice this:



I really hope the model has an alternative melee weapon. Otherwise, the obvious question is 'why didn't you just double his Attacks characteristic, rather than giving his weapon a completely superfluous rule?'.

I can't help but suspect that the weapon was given this rule purely to make it look more interesting than it actually is.

 bullyboy wrote:
he is pretty underwhelming, 8 attacks is nice but S3 isn't scaring anyone. He's basically a 5+++ tax

100% depends on the point cost. Stern seems really good, although I didn't see an invuln mentioned. She has a primaris lieutenant-ish base statline, which surprised me.

 vipoid wrote:


I really wish GW would learn what parentheses are actually used for.


That aside, I couldn't help but notice this:



I really hope the model has an alternative melee weapon. Otherwise, the obvious question is 'why didn't you just double his Attacks characteristic, rather than giving his weapon a completely superfluous rule?'.

I can't help but suspect that the weapon was given this rule purely to make it look more interesting than it actually is.

he could opt to fight with just 4 attacks by not using the weapon (maybe he doesn't want to kill what he is locked up in combat with?)

What would be the point because of Fallback? Should've just given him 6 attacks and a beefier weapon.

Yeah, when baseline harlequin weapons are better or more interesting than a special character's, you know you dun goofed somewhere.

 bullyboy wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
That aside, I couldn't help but notice this:



I really hope the model has an alternative melee weapon. Otherwise, the obvious question is 'why didn't you just double his Attacks characteristic, rather than giving his weapon a completely superfluous rule?'.

I can't help but suspect that the weapon was given this rule purely to make it look more interesting than it actually is.

he could opt to fight with just 4 attacks by not using the weapon (maybe he doesn't want to kill what he is locked up in combat with?)

GW often make rules that fit the background rather than be thematic. Let's see:
* WS 2+,W 5 and L 9, like a Troop Master
* BS 3+ and A 4, like a Troupe Player
* The Outcast's Blades - -1 AP is better than a Harliquins Blade and doubles his attacks. Not shabby, for a special weapon. The only downside is S3 really

He looks, reasonable and thematic. As long as he isn't too expensive, he will be useful for slicing up chaff units or adding a few extra wounds to units Stern is bullying with her S5 AP-3 D2 attacks.

Quasistellar wrote:
Stern seems really good, although I didn't see an invuln mentioned. She has a primaris lieutenant-ish base statline, which surprised me.

Without an invuln she doesn't even stack up to a mundane 54pt canoness - and that's before you consider <orders>, rites, traits, faith, and so forth.

She is the first sisters character that can deepstrike though. She seems unlikely to buff the sisters units and unlikely to make any charges from deepstrike, but perhaps some scope for use with seraphim/zephyrim?

 alextroy wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

 vipoid wrote:
That aside, I couldn't help but notice this:



I really hope the model has an alternative melee weapon. Otherwise, the obvious question is 'why didn't you just double his Attacks characteristic, rather than giving his weapon a completely superfluous rule?'.

I can't help but suspect that the weapon was given this rule purely to make it look more interesting than it actually is.

he could opt to fight with just 4 attacks by not using the weapon (maybe he doesn't want to kill what he is locked up in combat with?)

GW often make rules that fit the background rather than be thematic. Let's see:
* WS 2+,W 5 and L 9, like a Troop Master
* BS 3+ and A 4, like a Troupe Player
* The Outcast's Blades - -1 AP is better than a Harliquins Blade and doubles his attacks. Not shabby, for a special weapon. The only downside is S3 really

He looks, reasonable and thematic. As long as he isn't too expensive, he will be useful for slicing up chaff units or adding a few extra wounds to units Stern is bullying with her S5 AP-3 D2 attacks.

No they won't. Without being able to benefit from army special rules (and for stern Miracle Dice) they're crap. Their statlines are terrible. 4 attacks S5 AP -3 D2 doesn't constitutes 'bullying'. That's not even as good as a regular Canoness with blessed blade gets, and significantly worse than a Bloody Rose canoness can do. Also, elf guy only does 3 wounds to a unit of guardsman, that's not exactly 'slicing up chaff units'. The geminae superia do more damage in combat to most units and they're the worst unit in the game. His bodyguard rule is bunk as well, just letting stern benefit from Order Convictions would have given her more defense. Their pathetically slow movement doesn't help them much either.

You also have to keep in mind that the new Look Out Sir is a significant nerf to combat focused characters, especially ones that operate as 'lone wolves' like stern and elf guy do.

If they had been separate warscrolls, stern might have been taken in sisters list for her mortal wound shot and because she'd have adepta sororitas keyword. Elf guy is a noose around her neck unless they are both extraordinarily cheap. If Stern isn't also a regular psyker the both of them together I would say...70 points and they might be worth it, with most of that being tied up in Stern's mortal wound shooting. If stern IS a two cast psyker I'd say 90-100 for both, again with 80% of that cost being in Sterns ability to output mortal wounds.

I already wasn't planning on buying these once it was revealed it was a combined warscroll, but seeing just how anemic the rules actually are...yeesh.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

A.T. wrote:

Quasistellar wrote:
Stern seems really good, although I didn't see an invuln mentioned. She has a primaris lieutenant-ish base statline, which surprised me.

Without an invuln she doesn't even stack up to a mundane 54pt canoness - and that's before you consider <orders>, rites, traits, faith, and so forth.

She is the first sisters character that can deepstrike though. She seems unlikely to buff the sisters units and unlikely to make any charges from deepstrike, but perhaps some scope for use with seraphim/zephyrim?

As I mentioned in my previous post, Stern and Elf guy don't have the statlines to be a real consideration for any kind of melee. A combined total of 2 dead intercessors between them isn't exactly impressive. The only reason you would consider them would be for Sterns mortal wound output, which isn't even guaranteed.

As for use with Seraphim or Zephyrim, they don't really have any synergy. Stern isn't really going to do much chaff clearing for a zephyrim charge, Seraphim will do way more damage to a single target with their inferno pistols on the drop. Sure, you can use seraphim/zephyrim for look out sir but...why? I'd rather have Stern take the hits for the Seraphim than the other way around.

Heresy to think they'd ever give a xenos model equal or better stats to an imperial when they're in the same 'unit'. GW couldn't have that...


Makes me wonder what GW thinks their audience are - are they actively seeking customers to buy xenos who love being treated as 3rd class customers? Deliberately mad eworse so their friends can have THE coolest stuff?

Reading the GW page, maybe it's just me, is the wording for Mysterious Saviour vaguely written with unclear antecedents? Who has the rules? Kyganil or Stern?

"Whilst this model remains within 3" of an Ephrael Stern model, roll one D6 each time that model would lose a wound; on a 5+ that wound is not lost."

What does "that model" refer to? Does it refer to "this model" or "Ephrael Stern"?
The later wording of the article as to "she shrugs off a third of all wounds" suggests "that model" is Stern. So Kyganil is the one responsible for the 5+++. Which means focus attacks on Kyganil to strip the 5+++ from Stern. What does Kyganil have aside from the 6+? A 4++?

Presumably he has the 4++ and flip belt and normal harlequin rules re: advancing and charging and falling back and doing anything.

I think Stern might work best as a missile to deliver her Super-Smite.

Include Cypher in the army to guarantee a super-smite on a roll of 7+ (she just has to be within 18" of any Chaos model, including friendly ones). Maybe a squad of GK Paladins to protect the entourage and provide some melee oomph.

No idea how effective it will be, but if your opponent is a lore nerd they'll be so apoplectic by your fluff that they'll lose focus on the game.

I bet they're regretting keeping Cypher around for all these Imperium ramifications.

 Eldarain wrote:
I bet they're regretting keeping Cypher around for all these Imperium ramifications.

You're assuming they remembered Cypher when writing these rules.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
I bet they're regretting keeping Cypher around for all these Imperium ramifications.

You're assuming they remembered Cypher when writing these rules.

And if they did, might have just gone with “Heh, that could make a cool narrative story, let it slide”

 Nevelon wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Eldarain wrote:
I bet they're regretting keeping Cypher around for all these Imperium ramifications.

You're assuming they remembered Cypher when writing these rules.

And if they did, might have just gone with “Heh, that could make a cool narrative story, let it slide”

I mean it really isn't gonna break anything to be fair.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/26/into-the-pariah-nexusgw-homepage-post-3/

That’s right, the Pariah of the title isn’t a person, or a thing. It’s a place.

Got to love an article that starts off with: 'That's right, we've done a bait and switch.'

If Pariah had involved Necron Pariahs we would have known about it ages ago. Claiming this is a bait and switch this late in the game is a bit much.

When they announced the title they did make it clear that "Pariah could be a lot of things". They had mentioned the Necron unit, the Psychic Blanks, Culexus, Eisenhorn's callsign, and then later the Harlequin with Stern.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
If Pariah had involved Necron Pariahs we would have known about it ages ago. Claiming this is a bait and switch this late in the game is a bit much.

But the general concept of pariahs- psychic blanks- have existed in 40k for a long time. There was an obvious lore reason for the name that tied directly into the Psychic Awakening.

They did none of that. Its just another stupid place for the battle of the week. That is a bait and switch.

I’m a little disappointed that they didn’t talk about Szeras’ rules, but I guess we’ll see them in a week anyway. Just nurvous he’ll have over 9 wounds >.<