Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
2020/07/02 12:59:39
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
...GW does not consider their customers equal despite never advertising that fact.
It's plain to me that unless you buy a space marine you're merely tolerated.
The wallowing in victimhood seen round here sometimes verges on parody. You aren't being oppressed. The favour shown to certain factions at different times isn't 'toxic' or 'problematic'. Get a grip man.
The favouritism is problematic. It fosters hostility between the haves and have nots, makes it needlessly harder to play as the have not (look at Dark Eldar) and just makes it easier to feel like you have no value in the fanbase. Toxic is a bit much though.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
2020/07/02 15:03:20
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
...GW does not consider their customers equal despite never advertising that fact.
It's plain to me that unless you buy a space marine you're merely tolerated.
The wallowing in victimhood seen round here sometimes verges on parody. You aren't being oppressed. The favour shown to certain factions at different times isn't 'toxic' or 'problematic'. Get a grip man.
The favouritism is problematic. It fosters hostility between the haves and have nots, makes it needlessly harder to play as the have not (look at Dark Eldar) and just makes it easier to feel like you have no value in the fanbase. Toxic is a bit much though.
Iv had terrible luck chosing factions from games workshop. Fantasy: Brettonia and tomb kings, gone. 40k. Dark eldar and sisters of battle, at least they got love now but i had to stick with a 2.5E codex all the way to 5th edition for both of them. and then from 5th to 8th edition with pretty much the same codex.
Hell back in the day for my Dark Elves in fantasy you could buy a unit of cold one knights... a box of 4 half plastic half metal... (an illegal unit since minimum unit size was 5) for the SAME cost as a 5 man unit of warriors of chaos knights (all metal, 5 models, banner bearer) was like 50% more total metal, an extra model, same cost... they eventually corrected that but it was fething ridiculous.
"If you are forced to use your trump card, then the battle is already lost"
2020/07/02 15:41:16
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
...GW does not consider their customers equal despite never advertising that fact.
It's plain to me that unless you buy a space marine you're merely tolerated.
The wallowing in victimhood seen round here sometimes verges on parody. You aren't being oppressed. The favour shown to certain factions at different times isn't 'toxic' or 'problematic'. Get a grip man.
The favouritism is problematic. It fosters hostility between the haves and have nots, makes it needlessly harder to play as the have not (look at Dark Eldar) and just makes it easier to feel like you have no value in the fanbase. Toxic is a bit much though.
Iv had terrible luck chosing factions from games workshop. Fantasy: Brettonia and tomb kings, gone. 40k. Dark eldar and sisters of battle, at least they got love now but i had to stick with a 2.5E codex all the way to 5th edition for both of them. and then from 5th to 8th edition with pretty much the same codex.
Hell back in the day for my Dark Elves in fantasy you could buy a unit of cold one knights... a box of 4 half plastic half metal... (an illegal unit since minimum unit size was 5) for the SAME cost as a 5 man unit of warriors of chaos knights (all metal, 5 models, banner bearer) was like 50% more total metal, an extra model, same cost... they eventually corrected that but it was fething ridiculous.
Oh that's rough. I remember I was going to start Bretonnia but heard they were getting redone in End Times so thought I'd wait until that was done to drop the money on starting. Turns out that was the smart move. The End Times brought a lot of dissapointment.
tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam
2020/07/02 20:14:13
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
yukishiro1 wrote: The factions with only one troop choice have 1 choice that is always good.
Sorry, I don't believe that this is true. Not with the way GW writes their books.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2020/07/02 20:21:47
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
yukishiro1 wrote: The factions with only one troop choice have 1 choice that is always good.
Sorry, I don't believe that this is true. Not with the way GW writes their books.
Can't comment for 8th, but Sisters were good in the previous editions as troops, mostly hampered by all the other choices being pretty bad. For 8th itself? Scions are gold, real gold. Custodes are just kinda average.
CaptainStabby wrote: If Tyberos falls and needs to catch himself it's because the ground needed killing.
jy2 wrote: BTW, I can't wait to run Double-D-thirsters! Man, just thinking about it gets me Khorney.
vipoid wrote: Indeed - what sort of bastard would want to use their codex?
MarsNZ wrote: ITT: SoB players upset that they're receiving the same condescending treatment that they've doled out in every CSM thread ever.
2020/07/03 00:36:18
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
Slayer-Fan123 wrote: but Sisters were good in the previous editions as troops, mostly hampered by all the other choices being pretty bad.
Dominions and Retributors have always been Sisters+. They can do what Sisters of Battle squads can do, but can also do more by taking more special/heavy weapons.
"Our fantasy settings are grim and dark, but that is not a reflection of who we are or how we feel the real world should be. [...] We will continue to diversify the cast of characters we portray [...] so everyone can find representation and heroes they can relate to. [...] If [you don't feel the same way], you will not be missed"
https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1268665798467432449/photo/1
2020/07/03 08:00:28
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
Szeras is an incredible miniature! He is insanely fiddly to build, there’s some crazy small and thin parts that I nearly broke multiple times so my main advise to building him would be to be really damn careful.
But yeah, he’s brilliant.
2020/07/04 16:28:53
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
According to goonhammer, the PR spin about being able to take all inquisition units in non-inquisition detachments turned out to be wrong, as usual. It's only the Inquisitor HQs you can do that with, just as before. So the rest of the army is once again completely useless, as you'd have to be mental to pay 3CP under the 9th edition system to take some monkeys. What a waste, and what a bait and switch to get people's hopes up only to dash them for no reason. Really pretty bummed right now.
This was the PR:
All Inquisition forces can be added into an Imperium Detachment without other units losing their Detachment abilities. So now is the perfect time to get Draxus to lead your Space Marines/Astra Militarum/Adeptus Mechanicus/Adepta Sororitas (delete as appropriate) army.
I can confirm goonhammer is right, this PR spin is false advertising. The rule is exactly the same as before, it only applies to the Inquisitors. Really lame.
There are no changes whatsoever to the existing inquisition rules - all the datasheets are exactly the same, points costs exactly the same, EXCEPT that the Jokaero weapons weirdly became free, so they went from 22 to 18 points. Not that it matters since nobody will ever take an Inquisition detachment since it costs 3CP. Some psychic power and stratagems have been renamed, but they have exactly the same rules text as before. Then there's the two additional strats - deep strike and +1 psychic power/deny - that they already previewed.
That's literally it. Everything the same except the 4ppm cut for Jokaeros and the two stratagems.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/07/04 17:03:56
2020/07/04 16:51:40
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
yukishiro1 wrote: According to goonhammer, the PR spin about being able to take all inquisition units in non-inquisition detachments turned out to be wrong, as usual. It's only the Inquisitor HQs you can do that with, just as before. So the rest of the army is once again completely useless, as you'd have to be mental to pay 3CP under the 9th edition system to take some monkeys. What a waste, and what a bait and switch to get people's hopes up only to dash them for no reason. Really pretty bummed right now.
This was the PR:
All Inquisition forces can be added into an Imperium Detachment without other units losing their Detachment abilities. So now is the perfect time to get Draxus to lead your Space Marines/Astra Militarum/Adeptus Mechanicus/Adepta Sororitas (delete as appropriate) army.
Not only that, but the rule was reworked such that you can't have a hanger-on Assassin & Inquisitor in the same detachment. (Inquisitors now have the Agents of the Imperium keyword, and the rule is the same as it is for Assassins)
It's probably a good desicion in that it limits Imperial design space, but it's still disappointing as now the already struggling Inquisition choices directly compete against Assassins. Between a Hereticus Inqusitor that you need to pay CP on to make decent or an Assassin, its basically not even a competetion.
2020/07/04 17:05:30
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
I am writing an email to GW now protesting their false advertising here in the rules preview, it is either conscious misrepresentation or massive incompetence, and either way I'm sure it has misled some people into buying a book (or models - they do still sell Jokaeros) they wouldn't otherwise have bought.
I encourage anyone else interested to do the same, this is really, really poor.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/04 17:11:45
2020/07/04 17:17:30
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
yukishiro1 wrote: I am writing an email to GW now protesting their false advertising here in the rules preview, it is either conscious misrepresentation or massive incompetence, and either way I'm sure it has misled some people into buying a book (or models - they do still sell Jokaeros) they wouldn't otherwise have bought.
I'm sure whoever wrote it thought that that's what the rule meant. As usual, GW don't understand their own game.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Not only that, but the rule was reworked such that you can't have a hanger-on Assassin & Inquisitor in the same detachment. (Inquisitors now have the Agents of the Imperium keyword, and the rule is the same as it is for Assassins)
It's probably a good desicion in that it limits Imperial design space, but it's still disappointing as now the already struggling Inquisition choices directly compete against Assassins. Between a Hereticus Inqusitor that you need to pay CP on to make decent or an Assassin, its basically not even a competetion.
wait really? i cant run my assassin + inquisitor anymore in my sob army? that is dumb. 1 more reason to skip 9th all together. on the bright side im glad i didnt get conned into buying that book, i refused to buy any book after the debacle of the DE psychic awakening book.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/04 17:22:35
"If you are forced to use your trump card, then the battle is already lost"
2020/07/04 17:26:26
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
Matt.Kingsley wrote: Not only that, but the rule was reworked such that you can't have a hanger-on Assassin & Inquisitor in the same detachment. (Inquisitors now have the Agents of the Imperium keyword, and the rule is the same as it is for Assassins)
It's probably a good desicion in that it limits Imperial design space, but it's still disappointing as now the already struggling Inquisition choices directly compete against Assassins. Between a Hereticus Inqusitor that you need to pay CP on to make decent or an Assassin, its basically not even a competetion.
wait really? i cant run my assassin + inquisitor anymore in my sob army? that is dumb. 1 more reason to skip 9th all together. on the bright side im glad i didnt get conned into buying that book, i refused to buy any book after the debacle of the DE psychic awakening book.
You can, but only if you have two detachments.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Here's what I drafted up and sent to GW, if anyone wants to use it as a template for their own email. Not that I have any great hopes they'll care, but at the very least they ought to apologize for the false information and modify the rules preview, which is still up, and still inaccurate.
As stated there:
"All Inquisition forces can be added into an Imperium Detachment without other units losing their Detachment abilities. "
However, the actual Psychic Awakening book contains no such rule. Instead, the ability to include a unit in an Imperium detachment is limited to Inquisitors, not to "all Inquisition forces" as stated in your rule preview. This is not remotely the same thing, and makes fielding the other units in the codex - Jokaeros, Acolytes, Daemonhosts - nearly impossible in 9th edition, as you would be required to take a separate vanguard detachment and pay 3CP for it, which is simply not realistic in the new rules set.
I realize the community that plays inquisition is very small, but your rules preview got our hopes up tremendously with the promise that we would be able to field these units in other Imperium detachments, only for the PR copy to turn out to have been false advertising. I assume this misrepresentation was unintentional, but it is still incredibly disappointing, and I'm sure that at least some number of individuals made purchases in reliance of this false information.
In future, please, please spend a bit more effort to be sure that the rules previews you are presenting are accurate, particularly when they are part of PR copy designed to induce people to spend money on your products.
Additionally, I would ask you to reconsider the existing rules, and consider including in the day-1 Errata for 9th edition some rule to either make an Inquisition detachment free, or to allow all units to be taken in Imperium detachments as your PR copy claimed was possible. In other words, please consider rectifying the false advertising by making it accurate.
Thank you for your consideration, and I hope to receive some acknowledgement that the false advertising in the rules preview was not up to GW's standards of professionalism.
Sincerely,
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/04 17:31:48
2020/07/04 17:51:57
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
Well I have to say I'm pretty gutted about that. The only way I could see a decent way of running my inquisition force was in a guard detachment so I could also take some scions and transports.
I think anyone taking an inquisition force is taking it for fluff reasons but it's still hard to have to completely gimp yourself of CP etc
Abaddon303 wrote: Well I have to say I'm pretty gutted about that. The only way I could see a decent way of running my inquisition force was in a guard detachment so I could also take some scions and transports.
I think anyone taking an inquisition force is taking it for fluff reasons but it's still hard to have to completely gimp yourself of CP etc
Iv pretty much been running an inquisitor + retinue + 1 assassin since witch hunter days of SoB, which has since dropped to just the inquisitor and 1 assassin over time...
I was kind of hoping sub factions would get some special rule that would allow you to take their detachment without costing CP as there are practically 0 ways in which you can make a force with sub factions in 9th without seriously gimping yourself. by sub factions i mean things like Sisters of silence, inquisitors, assassins, etc etc
"If you are forced to use your trump card, then the battle is already lost"
2020/07/04 18:30:20
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
Agreed.
Thing is there is literally nothing in the inquisition roster that is even competitive let alone OP of it was allowed in an Imperium detachment.
Especially if they don't fill detachment slots.
I appreciate GW have to be careful about being too unrestrictive otherwise it just increases potential for unseen combinations but seriously it's a couple of really low tier units...
Thing is, I'd even rather overpay in points to take these units but if you want to take a mix of interesting keywords, losing all those CP just hurts too much.
Abaddon303 wrote: Well I have to say I'm pretty gutted about that. The only way I could see a decent way of running my inquisition force was in a guard detachment so I could also take some scions and transports.
I think anyone taking an inquisition force is taking it for fluff reasons but it's still hard to have to completely gimp yourself of CP etc
Iv pretty much been running an inquisitor + retinue + 1 assassin since witch hunter days of SoB, which has since dropped to just the inquisitor and 1 assassin over time...
I was kind of hoping sub factions would get some special rule that would allow you to take their detachment without costing CP as there are practically 0 ways in which you can make a force with sub factions in 9th without seriously gimping yourself. by sub factions i mean things like Sisters of silence, inquisitors, assassins, etc etc
It's really not all doom and gloom.
Get a battalion with your warlord, that is free
Add your assassin to this detachment.
Get a vanguard led by an inquisitor by paying the 3CP.
You still start the game with 9CP, will gain a CP each turn, and can probably add a relic to refund CP.
Really, although the PR was false, it is not the end of the world and is perfectly viable.
edit; I don't have War of the Spider so not sure if adding an assassin costs CP, I'm sure someone will correct me if that is the case.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/04 18:33:16
2020/07/04 18:33:09
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
It is not remotely viable to pay 3CP for a couple monkeys (the only unit that isn't terrible, unless maybe you abuse psychic veil to take a unit of plasma acolytes that can't be shot). The units weren't worth taking even when it didn't cost you CP to do so; the idea that they're viable with a 3CP cost is silly.
More importantly, your 3CP tax detachment also breaks doctirnes, rites, etc. Ad-mech and guard are the only factions that can take them without totally gimping their army. Like if you wanted to take them with sisters, you'd be giving up sacred rights AND paying 3CP...for a couple monkeys. Even worse for marines, obviously.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/07/04 18:50:13
2020/07/04 18:53:16
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
And in addition, if you wanted to take inquisition with any other Imperium stuff that you'd associate with inquisition like crusaders, death cult assassin's, stormtroopers, preachers etc or a transport that isn't a Landraider you also need a separate ministorum or guard detachment. That's 6CP down.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Best way I can see of making an auxiliary inquisition force work is taking a guard patrol with stormtroopers, crusaders, preacher etc along with a chimera, plugging the inquisitor into that detachment then taking a monkey or acolytes in an aux detachment for a CP. 3CP still really limiting options tho
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/04 19:02:26
Yeah it just doesn't work, inquisition are an even bigger joke in 9th than in 8th thanks to a PA book that does absolutely nothing except not deliver on the false advertising they put out to get you to buy it. Really poor from GW.
2020/07/04 20:07:41
Subject: Re:Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
Yeah, that's pretty crappy then. An inquisitor should be able to bring his retinue without it disrupting doctrines (I'm not fussed with CP as you still have plenty after a 3 CP drop). Failing that, GW should have fleshed the detachment out more adding Inquisitorial stormtroopers, expanding the retinue etc. The book is on the way for me mainly as i wanted Stern and the new inquisitor, plus just to wrap the series up, but the list seems disappointing.
2020/07/05 00:37:49
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
Yeh but this is just it, of happily take a 3CP hit to take what I consider as an inquisition force.
But the fact I also have to take a militarum detachment just to access stuff like transports
Abaddon303 wrote: Well I have to say I'm pretty gutted about that. The only way I could see a decent way of running my inquisition force was in a guard detachment so I could also take some scions and transports.
I think anyone taking an inquisition force is taking it for fluff reasons but it's still hard to have to completely gimp yourself of CP etc
Iv pretty much been running an inquisitor + retinue + 1 assassin since witch hunter days of SoB, which has since dropped to just the inquisitor and 1 assassin over time...
I was kind of hoping sub factions would get some special rule that would allow you to take their detachment without costing CP as there are practically 0 ways in which you can make a force with sub factions in 9th without seriously gimping yourself. by sub factions i mean things like Sisters of silence, inquisitors, assassins, etc etc
It's really not all doom and gloom.
Get a battalion with your warlord, that is free
Add your assassin to this detachment.
Get a vanguard led by an inquisitor by paying the 3CP.
You still start the game with 9CP, will gain a CP each turn, and can probably add a relic to refund CP.
Really, although the PR was false, it is not the end of the world and is perfectly viable.
edit; I don't have War of the Spider so not sure if adding an assassin costs CP, I'm sure someone will correct me if that is the case.
Don't worry, Assassins don't cost any CP just to add them. You only spend CP before the game on them if you want to swap the Assassin in your list with a different one.
2020/07/05 06:11:10
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
Are they GW owned or something? I don't know their reputation but some random website makes a claim GW lied about certain units and everyone believing them.
Seems far fetched. Again, never heard of them/him/her before this morning so I'm happy to be informed as to how credible they are.
2020/07/05 09:51:30
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
Matt.Kingsley wrote:Not only that, but the rule was reworked such that you can't have a hanger-on Assassin & Inquisitor in the same detachment. (Inquisitors now have the Agents of the Imperium keyword, and the rule is the same as it is for Assassins)
It's probably a good desicion in that it limits Imperial design space, but it's still disappointing as now the already struggling Inquisition choices directly compete against Assassins. Between a Hereticus Inqusitor that you need to pay CP on to make decent or an Assassin, its basically not even a competetion.
This is absolutely terrible. I was going to pick up this book once I was able to see some reviews (as I was afraid of something like this for Inquisition) because it made it sound like I would be able to take a Guard detachment with Stormtroopers/Crusaders/Etc. with an Inquisitor and their retinue and then take a Sisters detachment and have a full Ordo Hereticus Army in two detachments. NOT!
I don't know why GW even tries with the Inquisition any more, it's more insulting than anything at this point. Just squat them out of 40k. Or get someone to write a quick free rules PDF. No one should pay for this garbage.
jivardi wrote:I just visited Goonhammer site.
Are they GW owned or something? I don't know their reputation but some random website makes a claim GW lied about certain units and everyone believing them.
Seems far fetched. Again, never heard of them/him/her before this morning so I'm happy to be informed as to how credible they are.
This has to be a troll post?
Goonhammer is amongst the first to put out reviews for nearly every product GW puts out. Ranging from Aeronautica Imperialis all the way to a big new Space Marine book. Their reviews are some of the most in-depth and fair you can find on the web.
Honestly I would trust what they said about a GW product over what GW says about a GW product. They seem to understand GW's games a lot better than GW does.
2020/07/05 10:00:05
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
Sabotage! wrote: Honestly I would trust what they said about a GW product over what GW says about a GW product. They seem to understand GW's games a lot better than GW does.
I second this. Goonhammer is one of the best resources for GW games right now.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks actually do not think that purple makes them harder to see. The joke was made canon by Alex Stewart's Caphias Cain books. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2020/07/05 16:57:14
Subject: Psychic Awakening: Pariah & DW/Harlis in White Dwarf.
You don't have to trust them. There's video reviews up on youtube right now that turn the pages of the book. Just pause it on the page in question and read it yourself if you don't want to believe that GW done goofed again. It's right there in black and white.
I doubt they were deliberately lying in their rules preview - why would they, it'd just come back to bite them in the butt the way this has - but it's yet another example of GW not being professional with their PR releases designed to try to get you to buy their products.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/07/05 17:00:50
