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What the title says: you're sitting at your hobby table and you knock over your pot of nuln oil. A tiny genie emerges from the bottle, and in a very high pitched voice, he says

"Freed, freed at last!!! Thank you mortal. I have very little magical powers, but I grant thee wishes three: you may redesign the rules for three 40k units you feel have unsatisfying, boring rules that don't match their fluff. Which do you choose?"

My wishes personally:

1) Hellions. How can you make a model that looks like THIS and give them rules that are like THAT? They have absolutely zero abilities that represent any kind of defensive agility making them die like flies, a wonky-ass melee weapon that is S4 AP- D2, making them good at fighting precisely no unit, and they have the exact same bog standard splinter weaponry basically everything else has, so why would you take them? And their rules have been garbage and boring for fething ever, give them something cool!

2) Death Jester. Please just make him fun to play again! Of course, this would require a basic morale mechanic more interesting than squads roll a "D6-LD+casualties and take some mortal wounds" probably.

3) Exalted Sorceror. The kit for them is AMAZING and has a billion different bits and bobs and custom thingies in it, and absolutely none of it does anything in game.

I only really know Imperial Guard and first three things that come to mind:

1. Vanquisher cannons (on the LR and the Macharius): make them better at tank hunting than the other options. If they must stay at Heavy 1, give them 2+ to wound a vehicle and flat 6 damage OR make their damage Mortal wounds against vehicles.
2. Malcador tank: give him some gimmick to make sense between the Leman Russ and Baneblade. My proposition: if it stays at less firepower than a LR for more points, let him at least fire those weapons even if enemy models are within 1'' and give him some Kind of ramming ability (maybe a permanent "Crush them" without CP, so WS2+ in a turn in which it has charged) => it could be a braketrough tank.
3. Conscripts: either make them cheaper than Infantry squads (but they are already pretty cheap) OR allow for Laspistol + Chainsword as weapons option (4x 30 S4 attacks from Catachan Conscripts with Straken and a priest Sound mean) OR allow the rest of the Guard units to fire on enemies within 1' of a conscript like the Valhallans (makes them mean tarpits) OR let them cost only 1/2 reinforcement points when brought back by the Valhallan Stratagem (or completely free for true human wave detachments).

Cool thread idea!

Mine are:

1. Mutilators - They're an ugly kit and have been generally useless since their creation. On top of that, they are also too expensive in terms of points. I don't really like anything about them, but we've seen so many attempts to make them useful over the years (that have all failed), that I'm convinced only a magic genie could make them work.

2. Basic Dreads - They were such a core unit in the very early days, and they haven't aged well, but I have a ton of them and try to squeeze one or two into every list

3. Dark Apostle - With the latest update, these guys are at least playable, but IMO, there's no comparison to what they are in the rules vs what they are in the fluff. Reading the Word Bearers trilogy set my expectations pretty high for Dark Apostles. Towering infernos of psychic fury, wreathed in demons and covered in coruscating warp energy. It would be hilarious to see a cartoon where a Dark Apostle from the fluff meets a Dark Apostle from the game and they compare notes ...

terminators armour can't get lower in its normal save then +3.
banners, swords, antenas, cloaks etc are not something one can shot with or at.
Each model has a 180 degree frontal and back facing. you don't see what is in your back facing unless you are infantry.

1) (Chaos) Land Raider
It's just... boring? I mean, partly it's because the concept itself is a bit silly, you have that long range lasercannons on your transport that wants to get close... but at least it would be cool to have rules that make the Land Raider do both of the things it wants to do.

2) Plague Hulk
Outstanding model. Its rules are a worse soulgrinder for I think 60 points more. A sword that huge should hurt a bit when it hits.

3) Blight Drone
Same as above. Right now it's a worse Bloat Drone with an 80 point price increase.

Karol wrote:
terminators armour can't get lower in its normal save then +3.
banners, swords, antenas, cloaks etc are not something one can shot with or at.
Each model has a 180 degree frontal and back facing. you don't see what is in your back facing unless you are infantry.

That's not three units, you might as well wish for GW's management and rules writing teams to simultaneously realize that the models would sell better if the game rules were clearly written and well though out and the inter- and intra-faction balance wasn't so janky.

If I had to choose just three units I'd probably do something about the ridiculous mess that is the DE character roster, and I don't even play DE. There's a few turds in my Marines, but that roster is big enough to be able to afford a few turds.

Oh goody!

1: Fellblade accelerator cannon AE shells: Do you see the size of this gun? And it's basically a railgun? And you're telling me your force field can stop it? Nope. Everything the same but gains: ignores invulnerable saves. Dead knights coming up....

2: Dreadnought close combat weapons (or chainfists, chainclaws, you get it): Sweep attack: make 2 hit rolls for each attack, streangth: user, ap-2, d1. Try to bog my contemptor down will you?

3: Hellforged Dreadclaw: this unit and any units embarked on it ignores the matched play tactical reserves rules, ie it can arrive turn 1, with that contemptor. Why? Because we were doing this 10,000 years before you thin blooded loyalist dogs and we know how to do it better.

the_scotsman wrote:
What the title says: you're sitting at your hobby table and you knock over your pot of nuln oil. A tiny genie emerges from the bottle, and in a very high pitched voice, he says

"Freed, freed at last!!! Thank you mortal. I have very little magical powers, but I grant thee wishes three: you may redesign the rules for three 40k units you feel have unsatisfying, boring rules that don't match their fluff. Which do you choose?"

My wishes personally:

1) Hellions. How can you make a model that looks like THIS and give them rules that are like THAT? They have absolutely zero abilities that represent any kind of defensive agility making them die like flies, a wonky-ass melee weapon that is S4 AP- D2, making them good at fighting precisely no unit, and they have the exact same bog standard splinter weaponry basically everything else has, so why would you take them? And their rules have been garbage and boring for fething ever, give them something cool!

2) Death Jester. Please just make him fun to play again! Of course, this would require a basic morale mechanic more interesting than squads roll a "D6-LD+casualties and take some mortal wounds" probably.

3) Exalted Sorceror. The kit for them is AMAZING and has a billion different bits and bobs and custom thingies in it, and absolutely none of it does anything in game.

Vanquisher Tank Gun: It should, on a hit, do reliably better than weapons that aren't antitank weapons against heavy vehicle. GW is afraid of something doing more than 1d6 damage per shot, while it's also completely fine to do 2 [or even 3!] damage on 2d6 shots from a weapon the same price. [or a 125 point Vindicator, which gets 1d6 shots of the Vanquisher for 1d6 damage at higher strength and way cheaper.]
Railcannon: Same thing as the Vanquisher. Tank guns should be tank guns.
Macharius Tank: So, it's basically two Leman Russes stuck together in all things, but thanks to Grinding Advance, it only shoots as well as one. Actually, it shoots worse since it doesn't have 2 Lacannons. This is actually more a problem with Grinding Advance and the basic premise that "tank guns were universally unworthy of being tank guns on debut, so rather than fixing the weapon profiles we're going to patch each faction's one main battle tank and ignore the rest" than the Macharius, but still...

I can't be bothered making up rules but
1) Lictors
2) Pyrovores
3) monoliths

Assault Squads - give each model access to every type of CC and Special weapon, just like 2nd ed.

Terminators - no penalty for moving with Heavy weapons, or fighting with "heavy" weapons (Pfist, etc.). BS 2+ to represent their Targeters.

Land Raiders - can fire out of CC or after Fall Back without penalty. Immune to S6 and below.

1) Forge Fiends

2) Mauler Fiends

3) Mutilators

Give Reivers power weapons.
Make Veterans (IG) more attractive.
Give the third choice to someone who cares more than me.

Terminators or eq.
Immune to S6 or less.

Any beastie that isnt a tank. Immune to tank shock.
A 60 tonne tank might get squished by a 60 tonne beastie.
Papapffft. Elephant noises vs volvo horn.
+6 move when it can get to spam that can.

Deff Orks
Deff from above. Deep strike. May shoot on landing and get a assault move. And if they skull a beer or ask if its them grots, thez suposta be bashing, they get anuver free go.

Just to buck the trend...I think the very last thing 8th edition needs (in any way) is to buff more units. If anything, heaps of units/combinations need to be removed/reduced. The game and units function reasonably well outside of special rules and stratagems. Introducing the combinations is what broke the game for me and stopped me playing.

Give Allarus terminators a 3+ invuln and thunder hammers
Take BATTLESUIT keyword away from Ta'unar Supremacy Armor
Give Fire Warriors some decent anti-vehicle

 Elbows wrote:
Just to buck the trend...I think the very last thing 8th edition needs (in any way) is to buff more units. If anything, heaps of units/combinations need to be removed/reduced. The game and units function reasonably well outside of special rules and stratagems. Introducing the combinations is what broke the game for me and stopped me playing.

We're talking about a magical genie granting wishes here, not some unrealistic nonsense about GW removing SKU bloat.

 Insectum7 wrote:


Terminators - no penalty for moving with Heavy weapons, or fighting with "heavy" weapons (Pfist, etc.). BS 2+ to represent their Targeters.

But they already have this. The have the +1 to hit stratagems and aren't they relentless ?

Unsatisfying, boring units? Sadly we're limited to 3 or I'd delete the whole Primaris line.

If we're allowed to count all flavours of Terminator Squad as a single choice, I'd give them an extra wound and +1 to their non-invulnerable save rolls (the roll, not the characteristic).

I'd make Imperial Guard Veterans Troop Choices and 6ppm, while normal guardsmen become 5ppm.

And as a bonus 4th I'd delete the MMM order and make FRFSRF only 1 extra shot.

Table wrote:
1) Forge Fiends

2) Mauler Fiends

3) Mutilators

This list right here , Though minus the Mauler Fiends and switch in Blight Drones. Forge Fiends imo are just an amazing looking model with a lack luster 4+ BS that only gets worse with a 28 inch range? wtf? They shouldn't have a Stratagem required to make them an "okey" unit. It should be integrated. Then they might be worth the stupid amount of points they cost. Blight Drones cuz it's an expensive forgeworld kit that looks amazing, but compared to a Bloat Drone lacks in all respects for 50 points more. Mutilators just need a new everything.

#1 - Lictors. Having recently played with them, I see just how deeply flawed they are. They need to be the Tyranid version of snipers, but using close combat to get there. Perhaps being able to attack models within 6". Something like this NEEDS to be done for them.

#2 - Chaos Space Marines. What did it take for Primaris to see action? An extra wound, extra attack, better range, and AP -1/-2/-3 on three weapon options, all for a very reasonable points amount. Something of similar boost is needed for Chaos Space Marines. Let the Marks of Chaos do something, even if just for these basic troopers (and, obviously, their Chosen compatriots). Feel no Pain for Mark of Nurgle - absolutely free. Shoot on death for Mark of Slaanesh, absolutely free. Fights twice in close combat for Mark of Khorne, absolutely free. 5+ Inv for Mark of Tzeentch, absolutely free.

#3 - Carnifex. I'm going to date myself here, but there was an era when Carnifex were not just shooting units. They were close combat battering rams. They were THE "distraction Carnifex"! I just don't know what to do with them now. They have too few inaccurate attacks to kill infantry, and are too low a strength to deal significant damage to tanks. Either make their attacks x2 Strength, or up their accuracy and number of attacks, or even both!

1) Daemonhosts. The Eisenhorn narrative rules were actually pretty scary. Regular daemonhosts are not.

2) Inquisitorial Stormtroopers

3) Null maiden rhino. You wait 8 editions for rules and it's suddenly the ultramarines that have the flying rhinos.

Ogryn/Bullgryn. Make them one unit with options for all the equipment in a mix and match scenario and drop the points.

Corvus Blackstar: Does this thing even work for anything?

Dark Eldar Archon: OPTIONS PLEASE!!! Give him back the 3rd edition options (or the modern equivalent).

I can't actually think of many. Maybe:

Knosso Prond gets the Ministorum key word so she can be fielded with Taddius, Pious and Gotfret.

I'd give Espern Locarno the Astra Telepathica Keyword.

I'd fix Aleya, but that will depend in part upon what they do in PA, because she's only worth upgrading if they give SoS another unit or two. For example, if you used Aleya without Valerian, she could make all SoS in her detachment count as troops, but that only matters if there's a generic SoS HQ to finish off the Battalion, and even then, without strats, relics and WL Traits to support them there's really no point. My fear is that PA will augment SoS only when they are Talons; having no interest in Custodes, that wouldn't cut it for me.

In which case my third choice might be slight changes to Inquisitors; all it would take is clarification that they don't break docrines/ sacred rites etc. even when they are in an army as part of an Inquisition detachment.

I'd like it even better if they granted their Ordo Keyword as an additional trait to chamber militant units in their detachment. This would mean that Deathwatch and Grey Knights keep their doctrines and chapter tactics still count as Ordo units. This allows Inquisitors to buff chamber militant units as if they were acolytes without minimizing their effectiveness as Marines/ Sisters. Some might argue that this could be abused, and it's possible there's some validity to that.

 godardc wrote:

 Insectum7 wrote:


Terminators - no penalty for moving with Heavy weapons, or fighting with "heavy" weapons (Pfist, etc.). BS 2+ to represent their Targeters.

But they already have this. The have the +1 to hit stratagems and aren't they relentless ?

They are not Relentless, and they shouldnt need a Strat.

 Yarium wrote:
#1 - Lictors. Having recently played with them, I see just how deeply flawed they are. They need to be the Tyranid version of snipers, but using close combat to get there. Perhaps being able to attack models within 6". Something like this NEEDS to be done for them.

#2 - Chaos Space Marines. What did it take for Primaris to see action? An extra wound, extra attack, better range, and AP -1/-2/-3 on three weapon options, all for a very reasonable points amount. Something of similar boost is needed for Chaos Space Marines. Let the Marks of Chaos do something, even if just for these basic troopers (and, obviously, their Chosen compatriots). Feel no Pain for Mark of Nurgle - absolutely free. Shoot on death for Mark of Slaanesh, absolutely free. Fights twice in close combat for Mark of Khorne, absolutely free. 5+ Inv for Mark of Tzeentch, absolutely free.

#3 - Carnifex. I'm going to date myself here, but there was an era when Carnifex were not just shooting units. They were close combat battering rams. They were THE "distraction Carnifex"! I just don't know what to do with them now. They have too few inaccurate attacks to kill infantry, and are too low a strength to deal significant damage to tanks. Either make their attacks x2 Strength, or up their accuracy and number of attacks, or even both!

I think the intention of GW to make chaos marines attractive is two fold.

a) Gut cultists until they are inferior guardsmen at 4ppm. This was achieved through making cultists not eligible for chapter tactics and NUKING the stratagem that made them a semi threat.

And after this was done they proceeded to......

b) Lower CSM to 11 ppm and making you run Red Corsairs in your list. Then give you back the cultist strat they destroyed but apply it to CSM models. Also, lets also give Red Corsairs a chapter tactic that is so good you can not take CSM models.

Excellent balance work by GW. Another chaos/xenos level band aid fix. But I agree on 1 and 3.

Awesome thread, exalted for whatever that means.

1. Doomsday ark: DDC rolls 2d3 shots and damage, rerolls 1's to hit.

2. Monolith: 5+++ save, 2+ normal save. Particle whip gets multiple fire mode including a s10 72" AP3 1d6+3 dam tank buster.

3. Warp talons would be S5.

1. Make Terminators worth fielding without having to pile stratagems on them. They are Marine's most iconic elite unit and should be scary on both attack and defense, shooting and melee.

2. Land Raiders, same as above. It's not like they don't cost enough points to justify some sort of boost.

3. Eldar Guardians, give them back Shurican Catapults with a 24" range! I have never forgiven Gav Thorpe for crippling shuricats at the start of 3rd edition. No wonder the Eldar are a dying race if they insist on giving their citizen militia tin-foil armour and a 12" range gun. Give them 24" so they can skirt around the edges of the firefight plinking away. Or dig into cover with their heavy weapons and still accomplish something beyond being ablative wounds for then gun.

1) Ghazhgkull Thrakka
- Greater Waaagh! affects ORK units instead of ORK INFANTRY.
- "Goffs is da Best" changed to re-rolls ones to hit for melee and shooting weapons.
- If you have both Makari and him, they deploy as one unit and then split.

2) Burna boyz
- Burna(Melee) is up to 2 damage
- Pyromaniaks changed to give +1 attack in addition to moral immunity
- Point costs changed to body and weapon costing 5 each to make spanners less of a joke.

3) Mekboy Workshop
- Models getting kustom jobs can shoot, move and charge as normal, kustom jobs are applied at the start of the next battle round.
- More rivets adds d3 to the wounds repaired with the mek or big mekaniak rule if a mek is overseeing the repairs instead of downgrading it to 3.
- For every model with the Mekaniak or Big Mekaniak rule, add 1 to the roll for getting an extra speshul

the_scotsman wrote:
What the title says: you're sitting at your hobby table and you knock over your pot of nuln oil. A tiny genie emerges from the bottle, and in a very high pitched voice, he says

"Freed, freed at last!!! Thank you mortal. I have very little magical powers, but I grant thee wishes three: you may redesign the rules for three 40k units you feel have unsatisfying, boring rules that don't match their fluff. Which do you choose?"

My wishes personally:

1) Hellions. How can you make a model that looks like THIS and give them rules that are like THAT? They have absolutely zero abilities that represent any kind of defensive agility making them die like flies, a wonky-ass melee weapon that is S4 AP- D2, making them good at fighting precisely no unit, and they have the exact same bog standard splinter weaponry basically everything else has, so why would you take them? And their rules have been garbage and boring for fething ever, give them something cool!

2) Death Jester. Please just make him fun to play again! Of course, this would require a basic morale mechanic more interesting than squads roll a "D6-LD+casualties and take some mortal wounds" probably.

3) Exalted Sorceror. The kit for them is AMAZING and has a billion different bits and bobs and custom thingies in it, and absolutely none of it does anything in game.

I ask the genie to kndly got back into the bottle, and bring all the nuln oil with him. I NEED my nuln oil.

Hmm, i'd have to change more but i'd do the following.

either, reimplement an actual workable roster for corsairs again. (aka HQ, elite,and vanguard choice).


OR personal preference:

1.R&H commander, get's to be a demagogue again including traits for it. Including also a rule to abuse comand squads as bodyguards

2.R&H mlitia, WS BS SV improve by 1. (so that you actually get what you pay for.)

3. Mutants drop a point.


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