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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/11 19:56:34
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Pestilent Plague Marine with Blight Grenade
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Even though the forces of Chaos are mostly focused on fighting the Imperium, they have to know just how dangerous the Tyranids are, as if the galaxy is overrun, the Long War will mean nothing and the Chaos gods will at the very least be stuck in quandary either die or be forced to move on to other galaxies or realms (the world of AoS might find itself getting a bit hot). There is also specifically Hivefleet Chronos that hunt daemons and who is on its way straight to the Eye of Terror, and thus can't just be ignored. Are the forces of Chaos, mortal and/or daemonic, doing anything to stem the tide of the Tyranids?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/11 20:09:05
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
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The Iron Warriors were tying to adapt the Obliterator Virus to work against them - but they adapted.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/11 20:34:45
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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Indeed. An infected Hive Ship features as a Titan transport in Storm of Iron.
Beyond ‘rarrgh smash dem Loyalists’ Chaos probably doesn’t really have much of a plan.
Indeed, I’d argue that if you could just snuff out Abaddon, the unifying presence who is welding the Traitor forces into relative unification, they’d soon be far less of a threat.
The Daemon Primarchs are too far gone down their path to not forward their Patron’s interests. This makes them exceptionally tenuous allies at best.
Then there’s the very serious question of how do Chaos forces share information? They’ve seemingly nothing like the Administratum, regardless of how grossly ineffective that organisation is.
They don’t really have Inquisitorial equivalents either.
That then brings up the question, when we remember most Chaos Forces are either renegade PDF, Cults or previously confined to the Eye of Terror, what percentage are even aware of Tyranids as a foe, let alone as an invasive species.
This is a surprisingly interesting topic for me! Not that I entered the thread thinking ‘duh’ or owt. Just I’ve set my brain ticking over good and proper now!
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/11 20:49:41
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Member of a Lodge? I Can't Say
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Chaos forces have at least some knowledge of some Tyranids - in the Night Lords omnibus the Night Lords board a space hulk and fight off some genestealers pretty successfully. They don't seem to express any surprise or confusion as to what they are.
As for the rest I think a lot hinges on whether the Shadow in the Warp (is that still a thing?) is more powerful than the Chaos gods.For the most part Chaos forces make up for their lack of organization with demonic assistance, and if they're denied their most powerful leaders, vehicles and weapons it's not going to go well for them.
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I prefer to buy from miniature manufacturers that *don't* support the overthrow of democracy. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/11 21:02:49
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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The Chaos forces might not have much of an agenda toward defeating the Tyranids, however you can bet the Chaos Gods DO.
Or at least they would if they feel the Tyranids rise to be enough of a threat to them. Right now they don't seem to show that; for all their power the Imperium still stands as the most powerful unified bastion in the Galaxy at present.
Interestingly it would be the one time Chaos and Ork forces might share the same agenda. Both have warp gods and both are heavily influenced by them (chaos directly, orks less soo). Since both rely on drawing their energies from the living populations of the Galaxy, the Tyrainds, if they rose up to conquer all, would essentially destroy all food for the Chaos Gods (this includes Gork and Mork).
Shadow in the Warp is still a thing; heck the Tyranid have built a whole world that projects a massive shadow into the warp itself.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/11 21:31:15
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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Given most gribblies are enslaved to the Hive Mind, what would happen if say a Ripper ate Lucius The Eternal’s head, and the Hive Mind gloated for a nano-second at the enemy commander got himself all ded?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/11 21:48:07
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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What happens to genestealer cults. Do the infected lose their presence in the warp? If not that would make the chaos gods aware of nids wouldn’t it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/11 21:53:04
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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mrFickle wrote:What happens to genestealer cults. Do the infected lose their presence in the warp? If not that would make the chaos gods aware of nids wouldn’t it.
Cults vary. Those who are infested would certainly be more Tyranid than human even with only a minor infestation. Meanwhile many lower cult members won't be infested at all, and yet will believe in the Star Gods or whatever else the Cult lies to them with for their belief. In a sense for Chaos this means its food - worship - going to waste since, far as we know, the Swarm takes no sustenance from the Warp. Indeed Shadow in the Warp pushes it back. As a cult grows if it gains powerful psychic individuals it might well start to create a small shadow of its own; pushing demonic powers back and weakening any chaos cult on the same world.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/11 22:08:54
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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Waaaay back when the GSC were first covered, they could also be allied to Chaos, nowadays not so much.
My pondering here is how widespread knowledge of what the Tyranids represent actually is.
Chaos isn’t at all centralised. The Four Gods May be able to sense them, but are too completely insane to really do anything about it, especially as there’s zero chance of corrupting the Tyranids.
Individual war bands may have some intelligence, but they don’t seem terribly pre-disposed to share it with anyone, except perhaps as a bargaining chip.
Cults and traitor Regiments of AM? No info beyond what the average Citizen or Guardsman might have - as in, absolutely no clue.
Then there are those for whom The Warp has seen fit to make the Heresy literally yesterday, because wickedy wickedy warpy timey wimey. They won’t have a clue, and would likely just consider a Hive Fleet the entire extent of the Tyranid race.
Deathguard might set out to infect a Hive Fleet or splinter fleet, possibly just to see if they can.
Emperor’s Children? Well, there’s lots and lots and lots of new experiences to be had there!
World Eaters? Ooooh! Fancy Skulls! Big ones, little one, other ones in between, I’ve got a luvverly bunch of cocon.....wait. Sorry about that!
Thousand Sons? Maybe a who can create the biggest Spawn competition? Exotic ingredients to empower experimental rituals?
It’s weird when you think about it. In theory, the Tyranids are the direst threat Chaos faces. Because the more they scoff human worlds, the less power the Gods would receive from their Cults and worshippers. But, with Chaos actively holding precious few planets, the Tyranids aren’t a natural enemy, or even a pressing one. Rather they’re more a useful distraction for The Imperium. They’re not really doing direct damage to what little infrastructure the forces of Chaos reply upon. The only planets arguably at risk are those of the Dark Mechanicum, as they’re not all within the Eye of Terror, Great Rift et al.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/11 23:11:20
Subject: Re:Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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I say, this is a good topic! Well done, OP!
I could see abby realizing the nids are a threat to the imperium, and realizes if the bugs eat the imperium he will never have the honor and glory or conquering it, so his ego would demand he stop them.
In a background story on khorne it was mentioned that some khorne forces were engaging the nids to offer their skulls to khorne, and the smallest were the size of boulders. Hmm, would a hive ship technically have a "skull"?  I could imagine ol' khorne having a bloodgasm when a fleet came towing some to him.  One could see khorne being absolutely awestruck by the size of a hiveship skull and demand more. Hell's teeth, he might even want some warships built on hiveship skulls. (i's a khorne thing, you wouldn't understand  .)
I once thought pappy nurgle could stop the nids with a plague or two, but it was pointed out to me that pappy's plagues were usually warp powered and the hive mind is pretty resistant to the warp.
As to lucius being killed by a nid and taking over the hivemind, again the hive mind is pretty resistant to the warp so likely that's going to be a hard no. (Hell, I thought it was bull  when lucius took over a necron given the necron's relationship to the warp.)
Tzeentch....who can say?
P.S. I'm waiting on the great debate about whether hive ships have "skulls" and what khorne would think of one. Damn that oughtta be good!
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2020/05/11 23:22:29
"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/11 23:33:22
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Stealthy Grot Snipa
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I got beaten to it with the reference to GSCs being able to swear allegiance to a particular chaos god back in the Long Long Ago, but it strikes me that that would be a great way for them to subvert the Bids - turn their scouts/ HR department into active recruits for the chaos god's...
I guess someone on the fluff team will get on to it eventually- these days they don't seem to mind acknowledging their early ideas...
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/11 23:48:38
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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Thing is the Cults are a disruption/terrorist force, but ultimately they are a fragment of the true power of the Swarm. It's an ideal situation as the Swarm itself expends very little energy in creating cults, yet the potential reward is huge if it pays off. If it doesn't then the Swarm continues on.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/12 01:34:50
Subject: Re:Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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To be honest, the old stuff about gene stealer cults allying with Chaos was probably one of those "short term common goals, long term conflicting goals" situations. The Chaos forces are probably thinking "Hey, we can use this cult and try to subvert it later".
I mean, just because you've encountered stuff like gene stealers while clearing hulks doesn't mean that you're aware that they've got this whole adaptive lifecycle and psychic beacon mechanism.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/12 02:09:01
Subject: Re:Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Posts with Authority
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Back in third, at least, the shadow in the warp was a massive psychic presence that basically swamped and filled the warp wherever the hive fleets went. The warp was presented as a swirling morass of daemons and gods that any imperial ship without a gellar field wouldn't survive for five minutes, but astropaths and navigators could still use it, expose their minds to it. If the hive mind is a warp entity so powerful as to basically dominate and displace everything else in the warp, would chaos forces - at least those most attuned to the warp - be so unaware of it?
I mean, like, Ahriman, at least?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/12 02:40:34
Subject: Re:Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Enigmatic Chaos Sorcerer
The dark hollows of Kentucky
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Yeah, I find it hard to believe that a faction that in many cases literally lives in the warp could be unaware of something that actually disrupts the warp to such a degree.
It's also important to remember that unlike the Imperium, who censors any dangerous information such as the existence of something like the hivemind from its citizens, chaos has no such centralized system of information control. Yeah the Inquisition knows a lot about the Tyranids, but it doesn't share it with most other Imperial forces. The only thing most chaos factions would want for such information is some sort of payment.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/12 03:16:40
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Daemonic Dreadnought
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I imagine Nurgle would find the Tyranids tempting. If there was a way to infect an entire Hive Fleet, that would serve his purposes.
But that's certainly not an idea that's been explored.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/12 07:38:28
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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Depends entirely if they’re looking it for it or not. The key thing about Chaos is that sanity doesn’t exactly run in the family.
With no central government or information source, how can they hope to confront any Hive Fleet in the numbers required?
If there is any active monitoring going on, it’s likely being used to help avoid launching raids and attacks where the Hive Fleets are headed - or to attack once such a fleet has been driven off.
But outright confronting the Nids in a battle for control of the Galaxy? I just don’t see Chaos having the numbers or cohesion to even think about it.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/12 10:56:29
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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Chaos can achieve cohesion. Don't forget the legions of Space Marines loosely managed to link together to strike back at the Imperium. They then also have conducted several massive Black Crusades against the Imperium.
Indeed Chaos can unite, even the Dark Gods themselves will form alliances with each other at times. It always breaks down. Much like an Ork Waaargh will always break in the end or an Imperial directive will collapse under the weight of its own bureaucracy.
Another aspect which bares repeating, because its the same for the Imperium, is that Chaos isn't alone against Tyranids. For the same reason that the Imperium can't devote its entire army toward the Tyranids, Chaos also cannot. Furthermore alliances are nearly impossible with any other army for Chaos. So if they did start making huge strikes against Tyranids, you can bet other races would be fast to harry the rear of the chaos forces.
Another aspect is likely that the Chaos Marines are too obsessed and locked in a war started in the Horus Heresy. Considering how many of their leaders are from that time; perhaps the reason Chaos doesn't change is because its leaders are still locked in a civil war. That they can't recognise the Tyranid threat for what it is because it just wasn't around back then. Instead they are fuelled by millennia of insane hate toward the Emperor. Perhaps the only way for them to unite and fight Tyranids is to first achieve what they've been striving for for generations - to Kill the Emperor. To destroy the Imperium of Man and to rule all. Only then might they be able to turn their heads outward to the growing Tyranid Threat.
Indeed considering the Dark Gods feed on the torment of war and strife it might be that their long term consideration is that if their legions of Chaos Warriors actually win and end the war on humanity; Tyranids and Orks are there as a back-up source of continual war and battle. Granted the feeding isn't as good as it is against the Imperium (from which Chaos can feed directly); but it at least acts as fuel to keep the legions in war and have them suffer strife and hardship. They might even create the concept of farming worlds. Having the Core of the Galaxy fully corrupted and then an orbiting fringe outside of chaos where worlds are lived on by mortals. Raided and fought over for eternity between Tyranids and Chaos Warriors.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/12 11:39:35
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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Abaddon can achieve cohesion, others not so much. And Black Crusades are about finishing the Heresy and winning it (remember, Chaos forces don’t really consider it to have ended).
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/12 12:00:46
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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Would it make more sense for chaos to work out how to direct give fleets at critical imperial targets.
However In one of the recent stories don’t chaos turn up as the nids are about to defeat the BA at Baal?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/12 12:05:45
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Ridin' on a Snotling Pump Wagon
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In theory, yes.
But what resources would that take? And can a given warband spare them at any given time?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/12 13:12:24
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Fixture of Dakka
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ScarletRose wrote:Chaos forces have at least some knowledge of some Tyranids - in the Night Lords omnibus the Night Lords board a space hulk and fight off some genestealers pretty successfully. They don't seem to express any surprise or confusion as to what they are.
As for the rest I think a lot hinges on whether the Shadow in the Warp (is that still a thing?) is more powerful than the Chaos gods.For the most part Chaos forces make up for their lack of organization with demonic assistance, and if they're denied their most powerful leaders, vehicles and weapons it's not going to go well for them.
Genestealers don't really count. They've been around for millennia before the Tyranids actually came, they were just counted as a random Xenos.
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tremere47-fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate, leads to triple riptide spam |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/12 20:39:19
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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mrFickle wrote:Would it make more sense for chaos to work out how to direct give fleets at critical imperial targets.
However In one of the recent stories don’t chaos turn up as the nids are about to defeat the BA at Baal?
That sounds like something Alpha Legion would do.
I'm suspecting the AL actually wants to save humanity from chaos and the imperium, after reading their book. Alpharius was shown that both chaos and the emperor would destroy humanity eventually, in different ways. I suspect he/they resolved tosave humanity from both, which is why they occasionally seem to help the imperium. Keeping the nids from eating the human race would likely be a priority op for them.
I can see one of them subtly mentioning around abadon that if the nids destroy the imperium it will deny him the chance to, leading ol' abby to declare a black crusade against them. "NO ONE SHALL CRUSH THE FALSE EMPEROR BUT ME!!!"
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"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/12 20:45:01
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Even if Tyranids nommed everything, the Chaos gods would simply continue fighting each other. The Great Game would carry on.
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Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/12 20:47:11
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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NinthMusketeer wrote:Even if Tyranids nommed everything, the Chaos gods would simply continue fighting each other. The Great Game would carry on.
Without fresh souls to feed on don't chaos gods die? I mean that's the whole thing with Ynarri, isn't it? Deny slaanesh new eldar souls and it he/she/it starves to death? That's my impression of the lore, the chaos gods feed on souls and need them. I'm jut asking because that's how i read the ore.
I suppose some troll will accuse me of "JAQing off" again but since i blocked him i won't see it...
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/05/12 20:49:36
"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/12 20:50:42
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Afaik there has never been any fluff to suggest the Chaos gods actually need sustenance to continue existing. But if someone can correct me on that I would be very interested.
Edit: This is of course leaving out the multidimensional possibility wherein AoS and 40k literally have the same Warp.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/12 20:51:58
Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/12 21:04:15
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Towering Hierophant Bio-Titan
Mexico
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It is a plot point that Chaos and Tyranid engagements are becoming more common as both factions are increasing their presence on the galaxy, specially with the Great Rift which in turn lead to Kronos specializing on destroying Chaos Worlds and closing Warp Rifts. But it also seems that most Chaos forces are simply too obsessed with the Long War to really care about Tyranids.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/12 21:06:15
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/12 21:29:58
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
UK
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NinthMusketeer wrote:Afaik there has never been any fluff to suggest the Chaos gods actually need sustenance to continue existing. But if someone can correct me on that I would be very interested.
Edit: This is of course leaving out the multidimensional possibility wherein AoS and 40k literally have the same Warp.
I don't think its ever expressly "said" as such, but in the Warp power is based on belief and power if also based on what you consume. If there's nothing to consume you can't have any power. In addition dont' forget Slaanesh was birthed from the Eldar. Demons clearly have a driving need to feed; its what drives much of their focus and agendas. If you take that away then what else is there left? If there is no more life chances are Chaos dies as well. If Tyranids leave a few tiny worlds with a few scant lifeforms they will be fought over like crazy, but you'd expect to see most of the gods die. Remember they aren't greek gods, they are Chaos Gods - they exist because of the lifeforce of the Galaxy. The Great Four are not even the only powerful ones; just the greatest within Chaos.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/12 21:31:25
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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NinthMusketeer wrote:Even if Tyranids nommed everything, the Chaos gods would simply continue fighting each other. The Great Game would carry on.
I ,may be wrong but isn't the whole thing with the ynarri that they can starve slaanesh to death by denying it eldar souls? I may be wrong but I looked up ynarri in relation to how guillmeman came back and that's the impression I got.
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"But the universe is a big place, and whatever happens, you will not be missed..." |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2020/05/12 22:57:18
Subject: Is Chaos doing anything to stop the Tyranids?
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Humming Great Unclean One of Nurgle
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Overread wrote: NinthMusketeer wrote:Afaik there has never been any fluff to suggest the Chaos gods actually need sustenance to continue existing. But if someone can correct me on that I would be very interested.
Edit: This is of course leaving out the multidimensional possibility wherein AoS and 40k literally have the same Warp.
I don't think its ever expressly "said" as such, but in the Warp power is based on belief and power if also based on what you consume. If there's nothing to consume you can't have any power. In addition dont' forget Slaanesh was birthed from the Eldar. Demons clearly have a driving need to feed; its what drives much of their focus and agendas. If you take that away then what else is there left? If there is no more life chances are Chaos dies as well. If Tyranids leave a few tiny worlds with a few scant lifeforms they will be fought over like crazy, but you'd expect to see most of the gods die. Remember they aren't greek gods, they are Chaos Gods - they exist because of the lifeforce of the Galaxy. The Great Four are not even the only powerful ones; just the greatest within Chaos.
I am not so sure, especially when nonlinear time gets mixed in. For example, in the warp Slaanesh both has always existed and still does not yet exist. That sustinence exists anywhere in the timeline may already define their existence regardless of any events.
As far as I am aware there has never been any way to kill or even weaken a daemon by starving it. At most they need something to sustain them in real space, but without that they simply return to the warp unharmed.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/05/12 22:59:14
Road to Renown! It's like classic Path to Glory, but repaired, remastered, expanded! https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/778170.page
I chose an avatar I feel best represents the quality of my post history.
I try to view Warhammer as more of a toolbox with examples than fully complete games. |
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