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Ah. Are we amping up on the clock being two minutes to midnight again?

Problem with that is the stakes were already raised, and sitting on that state for too long starts to feel artificial.

But companies (including GW already) actually following through on 'midnight' tends to go badly. Very, very badly.

A fracture within the Imperium would be a good place to go though, justify all those Imperium on Imperium battles.

Voss wrote:
Ah. Are we amping up on the clock being two minutes to midnight again?

Problem with that is the stakes were already raised, and sitting on that state for too long starts to feel artificial.

But companies (including GW already) actually following through on 'midnight' tends to go badly. Very, very badly.

The flaw with settings turned into story. Which is why 40k would work best as setting like it was meant to be

 Latro_ wrote:
Seems that every teaser image is very faith in the emp related, which kinda steers away a bit from marines...

Marines inflict suffering, armour is their armour not faith.

I'm wondering if there is gonna be some crazy imperial extreme religious divide like ynnari. If you think about it all this citrix maledictum stuff kicked off more or less when Bob showed back up again with all his reason and logic, must be an undercurrent of zealots about to kick off in the imperium... would be cool.

edit: Now i flesh it out more in my head its too grim dark for they way GW is taking the 40k fluff.

lol then mere hours later gw post this https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/21/the-imperiums-endgw-homepage-post-4/

 bullyboy wrote:
well, this is interesting timing

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/21/the-imperiums-endgw-homepage-post-4/

and all but the last one has already been put in motion......so a new civil war is the next Chapter?

Love the Tyranid art at the start..had my hopes up for a nano second .. Nice that we are seen as a major threat.

I suggest a little of all of them coming the Imperiums way- More Nids arriving, Chaos rising, Psychic rebellion, Necron rising, the trouble with Orks and a civil war..
maybe ..

I'd love to see them evolve the Nids with new bio weapons and creatures as other elements of the Hive Fleet arrive..they could even just refresh kits by adding upgrade frames of biomorphs and weapons..

But I don't see Nids on the way for a while at least..

tneva82 wrote:

Voss wrote:
Ah. Are we amping up on the clock being two minutes to midnight again?

Problem with that is the stakes were already raised, and sitting on that state for too long starts to feel artificial.

But companies (including GW already) actually following through on 'midnight' tends to go badly. Very, very badly.

The flaw with settings turned into story. Which is why 40k would work best as setting like it was meant to be

No, it was a flaw with the setting as it was originally written. Both WFB and 40k sat at the edge of 'everything is ruined forever,' just like World of Darkness sat at 'End Times o'clock' (Gehenna & etc)

There just isn't room for infinite, endless battles where night mysteriously doesn't fall. You either need to give factions something real to fight for or you accept that the 'setting' is completely irrelevant to the game.
But picking up an 'end times' threat after the galaxy is shattered by the chaos sphincter and saying 'but this time for realsies' falls really flat.

bullyboy wrote:A fracture within the Imperium would be a good place to go though, justify all those Imperium on Imperium battles.

Something they could and should have done with Roboute, and something they still could with <Next Primarch>.

Voss wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Voss wrote:
Ah. Are we amping up on the clock being two minutes to midnight again?

Problem with that is the stakes were already raised, and sitting on that state for too long starts to feel artificial.

But companies (including GW already) actually following through on 'midnight' tends to go badly. Very, very badly.

The flaw with settings turned into story. Which is why 40k would work best as setting like it was meant to be

No, it was a flaw with the setting as it was originally written. Both WFB and 40k sat at the edge of 'everything is ruined forever,' just like World of Darkness sat at 'End Times o'clock' (Gehenna & etc)

There just isn't room for infinite, endless battles where night mysteriously doesn't fall. You either need to give factions something real to fight for or you accept that the 'setting' is completely irrelevant to the game.
But picking up an 'end times' threat after the galaxy is shattered by the chaos sphincter and saying 'but this time for realsies' falls really flat.

bullyboy wrote:A fracture within the Imperium would be a good place to go though, justify all those Imperium on Imperium battles.

Something they could and should have done with Roboute, and something they still could with <Next Primarch>.

Honestly all they need to do to remove the everything is ruined forever threat is downplay the absurd implications the universe will die if the emperor dies and play up the rise and fall of empires schtick already shown by the old ones, necrons, eldar, humans and tau. With that tone in mind, it would still matter deeply to humanity if terra fell, but the setting as a whole would keep trucking on like nothing happened with humanity moving on to an eldar style scattered remnants phase as the tau get to take their turn on the wheel of empires.

Obviously they decided to go the opposite route.

Voss wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Voss wrote:
Ah. Are we amping up on the clock being two minutes to midnight again?

Problem with that is the stakes were already raised, and sitting on that state for too long starts to feel artificial.

But companies (including GW already) actually following through on 'midnight' tends to go badly. Very, very badly.

The flaw with settings turned into story. Which is why 40k would work best as setting like it was meant to be

No, it was a flaw with the setting as it was originally written. Both WFB and 40k sat at the edge of 'everything is ruined forever,' just like World of Darkness sat at 'End Times o'clock' (Gehenna & etc)

There just isn't room for infinite, endless battles where night mysteriously doesn't fall. You either need to give factions something real to fight for or you accept that the 'setting' is completely irrelevant to the game.
But picking up an 'end times' threat after the galaxy is shattered by the chaos sphincter and saying 'but this time for realsies' falls really flat.

bullyboy wrote:A fracture within the Imperium would be a good place to go though, justify all those Imperium on Imperium battles.

Something they could and should have done with Roboute, and something they still could with <Next Primarch>.

Yeah the problem with End Times for me was I expected it to shatter the setting and reset it in a different form -not blow it up. The could quite easily shatter the 40k setting -a split in the Imperium with other rising threats would work. It could work really well and allow space for the factions to figure more strongly [and actually the presence of an Ork Empire, a large Tyranid infestation [remember they built something on a world ] , Tau ascendency and the return of the Necrons would keep Chaos and each other from snuffing out the broken Imperium .. They need to do something with the other factions because they are getting to state were most of them are complete ranges.

Voss wrote:
No, it was a flaw with the setting as it was originally written. Both WFB and 40k sat at the edge of 'everything is ruined forever,' just like World of Darkness sat at 'End Times o'clock' (Gehenna & etc)

There just isn't room for infinite, endless battles where night mysteriously doesn't fall. You either need to give factions something real to fight for or you accept that the 'setting' is completely irrelevant to the game.
But picking up an 'end times' threat after the galaxy is shattered by the chaos sphincter and saying 'but this time for realsies' falls really flat.

There's ten thousand years of history between the Heresy and 'present day', with a backstory perfectly suited to explain not only why momentous events could occur and then be forgotten about (with at least one already in-universe- The Harrowing), but how new products could be introduced without raising questions about where they ended up in M41.

GW used to recognize this, in that they had rules for characters like Lord Solar Macharius who canonically was dead hundreds of years before the 'present day'. With a setting built on deep time and ancient history, the fact that the 'now' is at two minutes to midnight is only a problem for events pushing the timeline forward, rather than exploring the past.

 Galas wrote:
What? Space Marines have never treated the emperor as a God... I mean... thats what all the fuss with Word Bearers in the horus heresy was about. Space Marine chapters are all about their own cultures, thats what their Chaplains are for.

Well except for the Marines that do believe the Emperor is a god.

What is this malady they are talking about that's linked to the necrons? I'm drawing a blank.
I'm not complaining, its a good concept and brings some of the menace back (the Psychic Awakening story they released wasn't bad too.), I just don't know what they could be referring to.

I want the original history of Black Templar’s being more than 1000 to come true and them and the rest of the Imperial Fists off shoots join to punch big blue in his face just in time for Dorn to return.

Look, we all know what is in the darkness of space...Squats.

This is clearly the Squats Vs. Tyranid starter set that everyone has been waiting for since 2nd ed.

 bullyboy wrote:
A fracture within the Imperium would be a good place to go though, justify all those Imperium on Imperium battles.

Perhaps some of the Imperial forces will become Renegades and Heretics.

Only some factions have the previous 10,000 years to play with, so diving into the past doesn't work. The Tau, Tyranids, Necrons only became active as whole factions relatively recently.

I suspect all of those threats mentioned by GW will come to pass in some form to some degree. But I think one way to keep from being stuck at an artificial one minute to midnight scenario forever is to have those threats start to interfere with each other and you can get local dynamic fluctuations in the fortunes of all the factions. The Necrons' pylons dampen the worse of the psychic awakening and the warp rifts, while at the same time the warp rifts prevent the total becalming of the warp and the end of warp travel. The Tyranids smash into the Orks and the two hordes stalemate each other (with local fluctuations of this fleet winning here, that Waagh winning there). Abaddon tries to head towards Terra but gets bogged down to a crawl towards Terra as he runs into Orks, Necrons, Tyranids, while his forces get harried by Ynnari and other Imperial factions.

Imperial fracturing is a good idea to break up the whole Imperium behemoth and to give a sense that things really are dark. A monolithic Imperium with the seemingly ever present option of smothering the threat in sheer weight of bodies doesn't give the impression that things are slipping. I just hope they don't make the fracturing a simple Guilliman/reformist "good" and reactionary "bad" (or vice versa). Both reformists (like the Inquisition Recongregator faction) and the reactionaries (Amalthean faction) can genuinely want what is best for the Imperium but they disagree about how to go about it, and all without Chaos having to be involved to mark one side as the "bad" side. In some parts of the galaxy, maybe urgent reform is needed, but in others maybe urgent reform at the wrong time might be worse.

I can also see splinters such as sectors splitting off while still professing loyalty to the Imperium by using the rationale of "we'll stabilize our local area first". They might even genuinely mean it and not be power grabbing secessionists. Of course they could also be lying and maybe lying even to themselves.

*looks at price adjustment thread*

Oh, I feel sorry for Wade (or whoever is presenting this) on Saturday...

Voss wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Voss wrote:
Ah. Are we amping up on the clock being two minutes to midnight again?

Problem with that is the stakes were already raised, and sitting on that state for too long starts to feel artificial.

But companies (including GW already) actually following through on 'midnight' tends to go badly. Very, very badly.

The flaw with settings turned into story. Which is why 40k would work best as setting like it was meant to be

No, it was a flaw with the setting as it was originally written. Both WFB and 40k sat at the edge of 'everything is ruined forever,' just like World of Darkness sat at 'End Times o'clock' (Gehenna & etc)

There just isn't room for infinite, endless battles where night mysteriously doesn't fall. You either need to give factions something real to fight for or you accept that the 'setting' is completely irrelevant to the game.
But picking up an 'end times' threat after the galaxy is shattered by the chaos sphincter and saying 'but this time for realsies' falls really flat.

bullyboy wrote:A fracture within the Imperium would be a good place to go though, justify all those Imperium on Imperium battles.

Something they could and should have done with Roboute, and something they still could with <Next Primarch>.

Im a Dark Angel player so maybe I am biased, but The Lion would be perfect for this. Sees Gully playing Emperor, again, and isn't happy.

Dadavester wrote:

Voss wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

Voss wrote:
Ah. Are we amping up on the clock being two minutes to midnight again?

Problem with that is the stakes were already raised, and sitting on that state for too long starts to feel artificial.

But companies (including GW already) actually following through on 'midnight' tends to go badly. Very, very badly.

The flaw with settings turned into story. Which is why 40k would work best as setting like it was meant to be

No, it was a flaw with the setting as it was originally written. Both WFB and 40k sat at the edge of 'everything is ruined forever,' just like World of Darkness sat at 'End Times o'clock' (Gehenna & etc)

There just isn't room for infinite, endless battles where night mysteriously doesn't fall. You either need to give factions something real to fight for or you accept that the 'setting' is completely irrelevant to the game.
But picking up an 'end times' threat after the galaxy is shattered by the chaos sphincter and saying 'but this time for realsies' falls really flat.

bullyboy wrote:A fracture within the Imperium would be a good place to go though, justify all those Imperium on Imperium battles.

Something they could and should have done with Roboute, and something they still could with <Next Primarch>.

Im a Dark Angel player so maybe I am biased, but The Lion would be perfect for this. Sees Gully playing Emperor, again, and isn't happy.

yes because repeating a resolved heresy era plot point is such a great idea!

 Dysartes wrote:
*looks at price adjustment thread*

Oh, I feel sorry for Wade (or whoever is presenting this) on Saturday...

Maybe that's the big announcement?

the_scotsman wrote:


Just wanna note how obnoxious it is to me that a bunch of coolboy edgy atheists have spontaneously created a situation where they don't want their marines to be religious
.....

....ignore the fact that gods are REAL in this universe and also that sisters of battle exist, a faction that worships the emperor as a god and the emperor gives their units holy protection...
So because of these cool atheist bros marines are just stupid and believing things in spite of evidence, except they're doing it in the opposite way that religious extremists in our world do. They're skeptical extremists!

Indeed! Glad to see another sees this. It's annoyed me since the Last Church HH novel and later "canon". Before that even ultramarines often worshiped the Emperor in much of the much more mysterious and less defined fluff.

I just choose to ignore this weird contradictory atheist zealous warrior monk with chaplains theme. It certainly makes the BT a chapter that makes a lot more sense in the setting fluff-wise though.

(Most) Marine Chapters are spiritual and ritualistic, not religious. There's a difference.

This is why they have Chaplains.

 Dranu wrote:


Indeed! Glad to see another sees this. It's annoyed me since the Last Church HH novel and later "canon". Before that even ultramarines often worshiped the Emperor in much of the much more mysterious and less defined fluff.

I just choose to ignore this weird contradictory atheist zealous warrior monk with chaplains theme. It certainly makes the BT a chapter that makes a lot more sense in the setting fluff-wise though.

From as far back as 2nd edition, when Marine lore started to be codified from the original brain-altered convicts to the current super-powered warrior monks, Marines haven't been religious. The fact that they viewed the Emperor as powerful but not actually a god was one of the things that made them stand out from, and often butt heads with the rest of the Imperial machine.

Chaplains, despite their name, were never a sign of religious zealotry. Their original purpose in Marine Legions was merely to keep an eye on the Librarians.

And now, Chaplains are basically the spiritual guides of the chapter, the ones that keep their traditions and the lessons of their Primarch, not real life chaplains that give prayers for the emperor, etc... (With the exception of some chapters like black templars, of course)

This is not any kind of recent retcon. It is how the lore has been written since is inception. Space Marines aren't less zealous just for not thinking the Emperor is a God.

I like that there are some religious Chapters out there that genuinely see the Emperor as a god. It's just not the norm, and there's nothing wrong with that.

 spaceelf wrote:
Look, we all know what is in the darkness of space...Squats.

This is clearly the Squats Vs. Tyranid starter set that everyone has been waiting for since 2nd ed.

Didn't GW buy the Squat tradmark or something recently and produced a couple of FW models of squats? Jesus, if they bring squats back, I'll be in heaven!

 Togusa wrote:

 spaceelf wrote:
Look, we all know what is in the darkness of space...Squats.

This is clearly the Squats Vs. Tyranid starter set that everyone has been waiting for since 2nd ed.

Didn't GW buy the Squat tradmark or something recently and produced a couple of FW models of squats? Jesus, if they bring squats back, I'll be in heaven!

They've produced some squats for Necromunda.

 insaniak wrote:

Chaplains, despite their name, were never a sign of religious zealotry. Their original purpose in Marine Legions was merely to keep an eye on the Librarians.

Where's this fluff from?

 catbarf wrote:

Voss wrote:
No, it was a flaw with the setting as it was originally written. Both WFB and 40k sat at the edge of 'everything is ruined forever,' just like World of Darkness sat at 'End Times o'clock' (Gehenna & etc)

There just isn't room for infinite, endless battles where night mysteriously doesn't fall. You either need to give factions something real to fight for or you accept that the 'setting' is completely irrelevant to the game.
But picking up an 'end times' threat after the galaxy is shattered by the chaos sphincter and saying 'but this time for realsies' falls really flat.

There's ten thousand years of history between the Heresy and 'present day', with a backstory perfectly suited to explain not only why momentous events could occur and then be forgotten about (with at least one already in-universe- The Harrowing), but how new products could be introduced without raising questions about where they ended up in M41.

GW used to recognize this, in that they had rules for characters like Lord Solar Macharius who canonically was dead hundreds of years before the 'present day'. With a setting built on deep time and ancient history, the fact that the 'now' is at two minutes to midnight is only a problem for events pushing the timeline forward, rather than exploring the past.

Exactly this, and with all that space and time GW themselves could have put out campaign books for a hundred years without ever stepping on the same ground twice. And the "present day" not being ideal for GW to tell an ongoing storyline with was a feature, not a bug - it was supposed to be a setup for us to tell our own stories, for us to determine the future of the setting based on our own games.

Sadly there's a loud minority who both want Official(tm) story content and only care about "what happens next" with the "main plot", and the other minority who preferred GW to do "historicals" and leave the ongoing plots to us(the large majority in the middle genuinely don't seem to give a gak which form the campaigns from GW take, they just want campaigns from GW and new models) allowed ourselves to be sidelined by not being as persistently obnoxious about our preference. Plus the makeup of the Studio has changed, with people who want to "shake things up" for a variety of reasons now being the norm there.

JWBS wrote:

 insaniak wrote:

Chaplains, despite their name, were never a sign of religious zealotry. Their original purpose in Marine Legions was merely to keep an eye on the Librarians.

Where's this fluff from?

in detail from the Horus Heresy books, but it was already there in the older Codex books, that Chaplains were copied over from the WB to make sure that all Marines walk the line of the imperial way (which includes of not having active psykers during the HH)

 dadamowsky wrote:
After the newest article from the Community let me repeat myself:

 dadamowsky wrote:
Imperor is gonna ded.

Or the opposite...