40k 9th edition, : App released page 413

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**Sasori**

ClockworkZion wrote:
I feel paint colors determine the toyetic factor for a lot of GW's products. I mean look at anything in studio Ultramarine paint schemes. Toyetic as he'll. But once the community gets ahold of it they tend to add that darker feel to the models through less clean and bright schemes.

The Black Templar paint scheme makes the Primaris models look 1000x better in my opinion.

**Grimskul**

Sasori wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
I feel paint colors determine the toyetic factor for a lot of GW's products. I mean look at anything in studio Ultramarine paint schemes. Toyetic as he'll. But once the community gets ahold of it they tend to add that darker feel to the models through less clean and bright schemes.

The Black Templar paint scheme makes the Primaris models look 1000x better in my opinion.

Definitely. Having a more subdued and good contrast colour scheme like BT really help emphasize the sleeker aspects of the Primaris models without going into the Hasbro valley feel.

**No wolves on Fenris**

Imhotep wrote:
Anyone seeing any rumors about using the veteran stratagem on assault Intercessors? My red thirst wants to know.

Not that I’ve seen but wondered the same about using the BA strat on them to make Death Company Assault Intercessors

**GaroRobe**

I feel like they may go the stormcast chamber route with Primaris.

Chamber 1: The first stormcast aka the first primaris. This was before they had refined the direction they were going to take the models. Both ranges are just basic models which look good but lack a clear direction or theme.

Chamber 2: The Vanguard Stormcast and the Vanguard Primaris. Both with less armor and more emphasis on speed/stealth. You can use these new models with your previous force, or you could make a wholey vanguard force.

Chamber 3: Whatever the magic stormcast from the new boxset were called. And these assault primaris. Although the chainsword intercessors look generic, they all have the new "crux dominatus" symbol on their forearms. Which tie them directly to the rest of the line, the more ornate bladeguard brethern and HQ, who also feature that symbol pretty heavily.

(I know there are other chambers, like Draconis, but they're releases are smaller. I think the above examples work better for my theory)

**Asmodai**

Dudeface wrote:
Anyone notice the 40k giveaway has a value of £120, what are the odds that's the rrp of the new starter?

It also says it'll be dispatched in July 2020 - some extra info there.

**Uriels_Flame**

ClockworkZion wrote:
I feel like the non-Primaris Marines ksave maybe Terminator kits and Grey Knights) will be direct only by the end of the edition.

Totally agree. Same thing to happen to many AoS armies.

**StarFyre**

surprised they havent made terminator primaris yes. they would look so cool.

sanjay

**Third_Age_of_Baggz**

Voss wrote:
Elbows wrote:
Voss wrote:
Malika2 wrote:
Hmm, isn't all this adding new stuff just to phase out the existing regular Space Marines?

They once again made a point of directly saying it isn't.

And...once again, you'd be an absolute fool to believe them. Old marines will be phased out, it just isn't going to happen in six months like some people predict.

1) They'll not get any new releases except the occasional character or named character. Example is the new librarian in terminator armour.
2) They'll slowly but surely get outclassed in the game to where points-wise and meta-wise you're better off with Primaris units.
3) In a while, and I mean...a long while, the kits will be retired. Many of the plastic kits are already 15-20+ years old, and while GW likes to let kits linger for up to 25 years, they simply won't be replacing them with new versions - ever.

This will happen, and to think otherwise is absolutely silly. However, GW isn't going to suddenly discontinue old marines overnight, and likely not for several years. Old marines will remain in the codex because millions of players around the world have them, and will have them for the foreseeable future.

Your old marines will be fine for another 10-15 years, easy...but it's likely their rules will continue to suck and they'll fade from the market and store slowly.

So you agree they're not being phased out

10+ years and 5+ editions from now does not matter

I truly believe this new edition will be the end of the (Old) one wound marines. Both your points are valid, but I think the timeframe for 10+ is being very generous. We haven’t seen the story so far for “War of the Spider” or “Pariah” but I have a sneaking suspicion that these storylines will have some lasting impact on the future of the “Olderines”. (I’m trademarking that!) Since Dark Imperium came out, the storyline has already progressed to this point over 200+ years. Obviously life expectancy in the 40K verse is short and brutal. Attrition takes its toll. The writers and designers have this in mind. When those Primaris speeders and predators come out (probably at release of 9th), it will have come full circle. The writing is on the wall. GW isn’t making regular marine stuff anymore. Models are being retired to make way for the new. Obsolescence.

I have an entire company of Olderines Ultramarines , so I’m going to play as much as I can with mine. I’ll be obsolete soon according to my Gene-father Robbie G.

**privateer4hire**

StarFyre wrote:
surprised they havent made terminator primaris yes. they would look so cool.

sanjay

Don’t aggressors kind of fit that?

**StarFyre**

privateer4hire wrote:
StarFyre wrote:
surprised they havent made terminator primaris yes. they would look so cool.

sanjay

Don’t aggressors kind of fit that?

kinda but they arent terminators still. dont they have the weaker armour and lower saves but a better assortment for armaments?

Sanjay

**ClockworkZion**

privateer4hire wrote:
StarFyre wrote:
surprised they havent made terminator primaris yes. they would look so cool.

sanjay

Don’t aggressors kind of fit that?

Lorewise they fit the same role, but people love Terminators. I could see a better proportioned Terminator design releasing in the future, but not in the near future.

**privateer4hire**

On topic, the only models that are catching my eye are the bikers. Not perfect but they are good to have as an option.

As to aggressors, they are T5 with same save and more firepower. Maybe 9th will reveal a more comparable unit

**macluvin**

I’m almost scared that the traditional MEQ is going to be overshadowed by primaris... right after they got through being inferior to hordes. Also kind of hoping (very selfishly) that the meta floods with d2 primarikillers so my chaos space marines have some sort of advantage over them... part of me wouldn’t mind also if primaris marines were eventually just normal tru-scale marines and loyalists get their infinite options stunted. If I could run chosen as several types of highly specialized specialists without having to pay an arm and a leg for bits like noize boiz or zerkerz, I would be happy. Codex: Disco lord and dinobots: roll out is getting kind of stale for me. As is codex Abby and however many heavy weapons you can fit in this list and his bubble.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I totally get why my personal opinion is a complete nightmare for the majority and why it shouldn’t be.

**ClockworkZion**

macluvin wrote:
I’m almost scared that the traditional MEQ is going to be overshadowed by primaris... right after they got through being inferior to hordes. Also kind of hoping (very selfishly) that the meta floods with d2 primarikillers so my chaos space marines have some sort of advantage over them... part of me wouldn’t mind also if primaris marines were eventually just normal tru-scale marines and loyalists get their infinite options stunted. If I could run chosen as several types of highly specialized specialists without having to pay an arm and a leg for bits like noize boiz or zerkerz, I would be happy. Codex: Disco lord and dinobots: roll out is getting kind of stale for me. As is codex Abby and however many heavy weapons you can fit in this list and his bubble.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I totally get why my personal opinion is a complete nightmare for the majority and why it shouldn’t be.

CSM are on the cusp of being good. They just need better legion rules and I'd argue that marks should alter the statline again.

**NAVARRO**

Some really nice models there. Not too keen on the bling bling overload on some primaris there since I do prefer the clean look of the armour. With that said when the detail VS clean armour balance is reached you get some really well designed models. The new Judiciar does that for me. Damn good model.

Pass on the bikes and vets though.

**macluvin**

ClockworkZion wrote:
macluvin wrote:
I’m almost scared that the traditional MEQ is going to be overshadowed by primaris... right after they got through being inferior to hordes. Also kind of hoping (very selfishly) that the meta floods with d2 primarikillers so my chaos space marines have some sort of advantage over them... part of me wouldn’t mind also if primaris marines were eventually just normal tru-scale marines and loyalists get their infinite options stunted. If I could run chosen as several types of highly specialized specialists without having to pay an arm and a leg for bits like noize boiz or zerkerz, I would be happy. Codex: Disco lord and dinobots: roll out is getting kind of stale for me. As is codex Abby and however many heavy weapons you can fit in this list and his bubble.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I totally get why my personal opinion is a complete nightmare for the majority and why it shouldn’t be.

CSM are on the cusp of being good. They just need better legion rules and I'd argue that marks should alter the statline again.

I would be so cool with better legion traits and marks of chaos doing stuff besides unlocking stratagems. I mean 11ppm meq’s are not bad per se. I just wish we could have legitimately more powerful marines swelling with the power of chaos and the warp but at least they finally did SOMETHING about a chaos space marine being literally a space marine with less war gear options (back when grav was the beez neez) and crappier/no legion/chapter traits...

**StarFyre**

privateer4hire wrote:
On topic, the only models that are catching my eye are the bikers. Not perfect but they are good to have as an option.

As to aggressors, they are T5 with same save and more firepower. Maybe 9th will reveal a more comparable unit

oh sorry. for some reason i thought they dont get invul saves... and had 3+ armour saves. (termies were 2/5 i think)

Sanjay

**alextroy**

StarFyre wrote:
privateer4hire wrote:
On topic, the only models that are catching my eye are the bikers. Not perfect but they are good to have as an option.

As to aggressors, they are T5 with same save and more firepower. Maybe 9th will reveal a more comparable unit

oh sorry. for some reason i thought they dont get invul saves... and had 3+ armour saves. (termies were 2/5 i think)

Sanjay

It appears that the three grades of Mark X armor are the analogs old armor:

Phobos = Scout
Mark X standard = Power Armor
Gravis = Terminator

That being said, they are not the same stat-wise, with Phobos being 3+ and Gravis being +1 T rather than 2+/5+.

**Uriels_Flame**

I wish they would just rip the bandaid off and make all 1W marines renegades.

**Norchack**

ClockworkZion wrote:
Norchack wrote:
I agree that Paint Scheme makes a huge difference in the way a model is perceived. But the size, shape, and proportion of the models has at least an equal impact on the overall look of a miniature. In the case of these new Necron models, it's the look on their "faces" that strikes me as being particularly cartoonish.

I'd argue that they're less human in shape which makes the Crons feel even more alien.

Though they certainly look less human, they also look cartoonish. Those two aren't mutually exclusive.

**StarFyre**

ok so my take was, if they also made terminators (just updates of the existing ones), its easier for them to get rid of the older line and long run, just use primaris adn rebalance them as THE marines.

SF

**JWBS**

ClockworkZion wrote:
JWBS wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Ouze wrote:
I have to say, that robe is bugging me. Why is it under his chest armor, but over his pants? All the way in or all the way out, bro.

I assume it's the robe he wears everyday, so it's not sized to fit over his armour, so the chestplate it buckled in place over it.

He has belly armour. It's over the top of his belly armour, and underneath his chest armour. It's woven between the two. It's quite silly.

The gut plates could be part of the soft armour undersuit. We know Phobos is a stripped down version of the Tacticus armour, and the plates could be part of that soft armour instead of the torso armour.

So he's sacrificing hard plate for the sake of this robe? Skeptical.

**ClockworkZion**

macluvin wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
macluvin wrote:
I’m almost scared that the traditional MEQ is going to be overshadowed by primaris... right after they got through being inferior to hordes. Also kind of hoping (very selfishly) that the meta floods with d2 primarikillers so my chaos space marines have some sort of advantage over them... part of me wouldn’t mind also if primaris marines were eventually just normal tru-scale marines and loyalists get their infinite options stunted. If I could run chosen as several types of highly specialized specialists without having to pay an arm and a leg for bits like noize boiz or zerkerz, I would be happy. Codex: Disco lord and dinobots: roll out is getting kind of stale for me. As is codex Abby and however many heavy weapons you can fit in this list and his bubble.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also I totally get why my personal opinion is a complete nightmare for the majority and why it shouldn’t be.

CSM are on the cusp of being good. They just need better legion rules and I'd argue that marks should alter the statline again.

I would be so cool with better legion traits and marks of chaos doing stuff besides unlocking stratagems. I mean 11ppm meq’s are not bad per se. I just wish we could have legitimately more powerful marines swelling with the power of chaos and the warp but at least they finally did SOMETHING about a chaos space marine being literally a space marine with less war gear options (back when grav was the beez neez) and crappier/no legion/chapter traits...

Exactly my thought too. Make Chaos Undivided the default (+1 attack) and let them trade that for other buffs (S, T, WS, a 6++ or +1 to invul) and we can even work it into the points cost at base.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Norchack wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Norchack wrote:
I agree that Paint Scheme makes a huge difference in the way a model is perceived. But the size, shape, and proportion of the models has at least an equal impact on the overall look of a miniature. In the case of these new Necron models, it's the look on their "faces" that strikes me as being particularly cartoonish.

I'd argue that they're less human in shape which makes the Crons feel even more alien.

Though they certainly look less human, they also look cartoonish. Those two aren't mutually exclusive.

True, but I feel paint scheme is more to blame than the shape of the head for any "cartoon" effect people are getting.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

JWBS wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
JWBS wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Ouze wrote:
I have to say, that robe is bugging me. Why is it under his chest armor, but over his pants? All the way in or all the way out, bro.

I assume it's the robe he wears everyday, so it's not sized to fit over his armour, so the chestplate it buckled in place over it.

He has belly armour. It's over the top of his belly armour, and underneath his chest armour. It's woven between the two. It's quite silly.

The gut plates could be part of the soft armour undersuit. We know Phobos is a stripped down version of the Tacticus armour, and the plates could be part of that soft armour instead of the torso armour.

So he's sacrificing hard plate for the sake of this robe? Skeptical.

Phobos still gives a 3+ so it's not like it's a negative for him to do so.

**Mr_Rose**

On Robes and the 41st millennium; Cadian pattern uniforms are woven from Kevlar-equivalent tight-weave ballistic cloth so there’s no reason a Space Marine’s (or Sister of Battle’s) robe can’t be made of the same stuff, probably even with more layers because power armour.
That is in fact one of the key things with Imperial technology; just because it looks impractical that doesn’t mean it serves no purpose.

**CthuluIsSpy**

Yeah, if we can make cloth bullet proof, so could they 39000 years later.
Just because the memes say the IoM is primitive and backwards, doesn't mean they are.

**Dentry**

I'm hoping that Primaris and "Old" marines are both here to stay.

Ideally with the old marine kits replaced with new Space Marine Heroes proportioned (and detailed) versions.

**ClockworkZion**

CthuluIsSpy wrote:
Yeah, if we can make cloth bullet proof, so could they 39000 years later.
Just because the memes say the IoM is primitive and backwards, doesn't mean they are.

Even their primitive and backward tech is lightyears aheadnof ours.

**JWBS**

ClockworkZion wrote:

JWBS wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
JWBS wrote:
ClockworkZion wrote:
Ouze wrote:
I have to say, that robe is bugging me. Why is it under his chest armor, but over his pants? All the way in or all the way out, bro.

I assume it's the robe he wears everyday, so it's not sized to fit over his armour, so the chestplate it buckled in place over it.

He has belly armour. It's over the top of his belly armour, and underneath his chest armour. It's woven between the two. It's quite silly.

The gut plates could be part of the soft armour undersuit. We know Phobos is a stripped down version of the Tacticus armour, and the plates could be part of that soft armour instead of the torso armour.

So he's sacrificing hard plate for the sake of this robe? Skeptical.

Phobos still gives a 3+ so it's not like it's a negative for him to do so.

Yeah that makes no sense. SM armour is the best they can make it. But they can also make it better by removing a lot of it, in the case of phobos, and having less of it increases stealth / agility attributes but doesn't decrease toughness.
Anyway, for the sake of not wanting to continue the debate I'll accept that this mark of SM armour is mostly standard Tactitus plate, but with a Phobos stomach plate (which is as good as a standard on for protection, despite being not there, and being just an undersuit) for the sake of fitting on his over-gut, under-cuirass tabbard (which is prolly bullet proof ballistic cloth, despite any evidence to indicate).

**Sotahullu**

I am quite sure that there is armor beneath the robes, it just between upper and lower armor segments on the torso.

Although I am not fan of it, It is either loincloth or monk robes with me.

**macluvin**

Cloth that is impenetrable to a bullet seems like such a waste of resources to a Gaurdsman... even if it stops the bullet the force will still punch straight through and either cause massive internal bleeding, or if it’s just a sheet of bulletproof cloth, the bullet would still enter their skin with a piece of cloth keeping the metal from contacting the blood basically... it’s basically just a bullet condom. A marine would be able to shrug that sort of punishment off.