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 BaconCatBug wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Malika2 wrote:
But even then it would mean that ... Land Raiders... could be phased out.

The day that Marines are phased out in favour of Primaris, I think you'll find the Land Raider suddenly gets "upgraded" and can now suddenly carry Primaris Marines.

Why would they do that when they can introduce instead the Cawl Hover Raider with T9 and a 1+ save and can carry 15 Primaris. Oh and it's £80.

now you are just being silly, it won't be that cheap.


I do expect a lot of "on a result of a '1'" and the same for a '6' to become a natural one and six, as with the Ork Codex - suspect thats what was intended in the first place but someone was having a bad day and they have run with it

Well, the land raider could do with an update in all honesty, it is starting to look tired now compared to other big kits in terms of detail etc.

Not saying this should be done soon for all the xenos players out there who want to cry at the suggestion, but it is a tired kit. It's 20 years old now.

I want it still to be tracked when they finally get around to doing it, like I want terminators to have storm/combi bolters and power fists as the main armament when they get round to doing that also.

It would be a shame for the rhino to go, but since that is in sisters of battle it wouldn't be dead and would live on there, the impulsors and repulsers can live on as the new rhino and predators, but I don't want a land raider to be grav, it must be tracked, just for nostalgia reasons more than anything. They can still be perpetuated as some ageing relics from the heresy, with most been 10,000 years old then as well.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

I'd expect Warriors to come in a 10 box for $60 which seems to be the standard for troops.

Ehhh...the 'standard for troops' is that there isn't really one.

True, I mean Cadians aren't that expensive (yet). But generally speaking the cost for troop unit boxes tend to be cheaper.

All the most recent 10-man squad boxes I know of have been at a 50$ price point.

 Hellebore wrote:

I mean, I fully expect there to be only 2 wound marine model rules in the game in a few years. So I will be able to use my older marine models as primaris because they'll be the only kind of marine with rules and unless GW is going to start banning models that are a certain age, every space marine deployed from then on will effectively be a primaris marine because there won't be another profile to confuse them with.

The only reason I can see them keeping relic 1W marine units around is to deliberately make them suck, but keep their profile so it's harder for people to 'counts as' them as primaris marines....

Notice how you're not seeing classic Marines in promotional material. There's a reason for that
Notice how often the word 'Rubicon' is getting thrown around. There's a reason for that.
Notice how Fabius Bile has come back, and he's got his hands on some Primaris Marines already. There's a reason for that.

What it means- "Primaris" is just going to be referred to simply as a 'phase' in upgrading the Space Marine process to justify changing all Marines over (including Heretic Astartes). The 'Rubicon' is going to be the point referred to when this upgrade took place (As in "crossing the Rubicon"- passing the point of no return).

I'm fairly certain this is what will happen:

-You will not see any more 'original' Space Marines. Grognards will cry, even though they claim they haven't played since third edition.
-All Space Marines- tacticals, devastators, etc. will get a Primaris stat line (2 wounds, 2 attacks), Grognards will cry about balance even though they claim to not care about balance.
-You will still be able to use your old Space Marine models if you want, but Grognards will still cry because other people aren't using old Space Marine models.
-Rhinos will still be usable by scouts, and it's still a Sororitas vehicle so it won't phase out. Grognards will cry even though they were claiming Rhinos were useless a few weeks ago.
-Land Raiders will be capable of transporting Primaris Marines. Grognards will cry because that's just what they do when something happens.

I'm not gonna say you should take my word for it. Not gonna hurt my feelings if you choose not to believe some random dude on the internet, it makes sense.

I'll just say it like this- I'm a bit less worried about if this is going to happen, and more waiting to see the reaction for when it's announced.

If I were you, sometime around mid-June I'd take a look at that Legends list.

As there was talk about the primaris using the classic vehicles, one thing I really hope they change in the new edition is to allow the primaris to ride drop pods. That would make those new assault marines instantly more usable.

 Crimson wrote:
As there was talk about the primaris using the classic vehicles, one thing I really hope they change in the new edition is to allow the primaris to ride drop pops. That would make those new assault marines instantly more usable.

Yeah. For all the complaining people did about the lack of melee Primaris units, getting them into melee requires the big shoebox or the slightly smaller shoebox.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
As there was talk about the primaris using the classic vehicles, one thing I really hope they change in the new edition is to allow the primaris to ride drop pops. That would make those new assault marines instantly more usable.

Yeah. For all the complaining people did about the lack of melee Primaris units, getting them into melee requires the big shoebox or the slightly smaller shoebox.

i fail to see how the shoeboxes would help if the shoebox carry rules especially the get out of them rules still suck about as they do now.

Not Online!!! wrote:
i fail to see how the shoeboxes would help if the shoebox carry rules especially the get out of them rules still suck about as they do now.

They have to get out and do a head count, then make sure everyone brought their vroom-vroom cutters and stabby-stabs like they were told before they charge into a fight.

leopard wrote:

 BaconCatBug wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Malika2 wrote:
But even then it would mean that ... Land Raiders... could be phased out.

The day that Marines are phased out in favour of Primaris, I think you'll find the Land Raider suddenly gets "upgraded" and can now suddenly carry Primaris Marines.

Why would they do that when they can introduce instead the Cawl Hover Raider with T9 and a 1+ save and can carry 15 Primaris. Oh and it's £80.

now you are just being silly, it won't be that cheap.


I do expect a lot of "on a result of a '1'" and the same for a '6' to become a natural one and six, as with the Ork Codex - suspect thats what was intended in the first place but someone was having a bad day and they have run with it

I thought so too. But after orks plenty codexes where that didn't happen. More of same effect bespoke does for which we have to thank meltaguns that works differently to another weapon named meltagun

endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Well, the land raider could do with an update in all honesty, it is starting to look tired now compared to other big kits in terms of detail etc.

Not saying this should be done soon for all the xenos players out there who want to cry at the suggestion, but it is a tired kit. It's 20 years old now.

I want it still to be tracked when they finally get around to doing it, like I want terminators to have storm/combi bolters and power fists as the main armament when they get round to doing that also.

It would be a shame for the rhino to go, but since that is in sisters of battle it wouldn't be dead and would live on there, the impulsors and repulsers can live on as the new rhino and predators, but I don't want a land raider to be grav, it must be tracked, just for nostalgia reasons more than anything. They can still be perpetuated as some ageing relics from the heresy, with most been 10,000 years old then as well.

You want old school vehicles and termies? Just come over to the right side of the Great Rift.

A 'dissection' of the 40k trailer by GW.
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/05/26/dissecting-the-warhammer-40000-trailergw-homepage-post-1/

Theoretically for secrets and easter eggs, of which there's exactly one (a Munitorum Armoured Container is in one the initial shots). Everything else they're just talking about things that are front and center in the shot, or showing a still because 'it looks cool.'

Also they just come out and say that the big Necron tripod guy is a Skorpekh Lord, a new HQ choice (rather than a elite slot dread).
Though they seem to think it has four arms rather than three, so...

 Crimson wrote:
As there was talk about the primaris using the classic vehicles, one thing I really hope they change in the new edition is to allow the primaris to ride drop pods. That would make those new assault marines instantly more usable.

Amen.

Sotahullu wrote:

 Crimson wrote:
As there was talk about the primaris using the classic vehicles, one thing I really hope they change in the new edition is to allow the primaris to ride drop pods. That would make those new assault marines instantly more usable.

Amen.

Especially as Black Templars too. Depends on cost of Drop Pods as usual though.

The issue with primaris and small marines is less about the marines themselves, but all the supporting units. Eliminating Tacs, Assault and Devs is no big deal, but eliminating Rhinos, Raiders, Dreads, Preds, Vindicators, Whirlwinds, Storm-fliers, drop pods, etc is a whole different ballgame.
I will gladly play with my old boys for as long as I can. I find the new Primaris vehicles to be hideous in comparison to the Land Raider and Rhino variants. I have yet to buy a single Repulsor or Impulsor for any of my marine lists (Dark Angels, Ravenguard, Deathwatch) just because I find them ugly. I'm sure I'll break down at some point to add them, but not sure when that will be. I'm finishing up my Dark Angels old marine force and then will break into a Primaris add on, my Ravenguard are moslty primaris but are infantry based (minus the Invictor warsuits), and my Deathwatch don't have any Primaris painted currently.

So by the bases of the new GW prizes, if we assume the mistery boxes will be the new start collecting, we are talking about a 120 pounds, 160€, 200$ starter for this edition.

From 95 pounds and 125€ for Dark Imperium thats a great increase. When boxes were more close to 100€ , they were palatable, very ease to split in half with somebody. When they are closer to 200€ it is much harder to do. Psychologically is hard to justify.

zamerion wrote:

 Sabotage! wrote:


I think a lot of people who were working on it got pulled to go work on Warcry, which makes sense as the rules system is much less clunky and in general it’s just a better game. Now if they could make a rule set that elegant for 40k skirmish (or hell even port over Necro rules) we would be in a great spot.

Warcry better game than killteam? sorry not in this universe. (at least not at a competitive level)

The mechanics of activations and 2 actions ( copied from necromunda) its really great yes. The rest of the game is a meaningless dice roll, and no one has yet been able to do a balanced mission system.. while kill team already has several that work well.

If they collected information from tournaments like they do with 40k, and adjusted unit points, especially from elites the game would win even more

Are you talking about the "skirmish game" that often takes 1.5 hours to play because of the excessive amount of dice rolling and because both sides just line up in cover and shoot at each other with no one ever taking any real damage? Or the one where everyone argues how to resolve wounds from weapons that inflict multiple wounds? Or the one with a super messed up version of alternating activation? The one where most games the scenario doesn't even come into play? Yeah, no thanks.

Warcry and Necromunda aren't meant to be competitive games, but they are fluid and they are fun. When you roll dice, things happen. Movement matters. The short duration of Warcry games means if you don't play the scenario, and instead just focus on killing everyone, you will lose.

I'm not knocking anyone for wanting to play a competitive game, that can be fun too. But GW doesn't make good competitive games (barring Warhammer Underworlds). You'd be much better off looking into Infinity or even Warmachine if you want competitive games to play in tournaments.

Not to drag this too far off topic, but I think it's pretty clear Kill Team is on life support and has no plans of any significant future content. I think 9th edition bringing back Combat Patrol is even more evidence of this, especially as you will likely be able to play a game of combat patrol in the same amount of time as a game of Kill Team.

 Malika2 wrote:


Do keep in mind that that's Forgeworld territory. But even then it would mean that the regular Terminators, normal Tactical Marines, all the flyers, modern Rhinos and Land Raiders, those Space Marines wearing Space Marines (Centurions?), the old blocky Dreadnoughts, Scouts (to name a few) could be phased out. Of all the plastic kits of the original Space Marine line only the Horus Heresy kits have any relevance.

A fair few of these kits are still used in the heresy. Only the centurions and and modern flyer models don't have rules. Even GW terminators and tactical marines can be used with simple removal of some of the aquillas and the like.

Agreed, the Primaris MEQ is bland compared to the vintage stuff. Vehicles arent that accurately scaled anyways, so why couldn't they keep most of the old ones in existence? Its not like you could have fit 10 vintage marines inside a rhino now was it

I do like the look of the new bikes tho

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Malika2 wrote:
But even then it would mean that ... Land Raiders... could be phased out.

The day that Marines are phased out in favour of Primaris, I think you'll find the Land Raider suddenly gets "upgraded" and can now suddenly carry Primaris Marines.

The Chapter organisation of the Silver Templars (Ultima Founding) already features Land Raiders, so presumably background-wise Primaris do actually fit in them compfortably.

I have never really understood why GW made it so Primaris couldn't ride in Land Raiders, at least the "normal" sized ones. I would have accepted if they said those in Gravis armor were banned. Terminators are larger than Intercessors and they can fit in. Heck, Custodes have Land Raiders and they fit in. Primaris? Nope. I think that that little change would have upped the value of both Primaris AND the Land Raider. Let's just face it, the Land Raider does need a boost.


On a side note, when 8th launched I made an all-Primaris force using almost nothing but Dark Vengeance Marines. One of the few exceptions was a Terminus Ultra, as it doesn't carry anyone anyway.

So are the spindle drones from BSF Necrons?

They look just like baby new models.

FWIW, I actually prefer the simpler return to vanilla primaris except for higher rank characters above Lieutenant. If you want to glam up your space Barbie (like I did!), you have the choice to do so but it's not required.

Yeah Lion if Loyal, Fulgrim If Chaos.
That’s what I assume it’ll be

Danny76 wrote:
Yeah Lion if Loyal, Fulgrim If Chaos.
That’s what I assume it’ll be

How about a compromise? Chaos Lion!

I was listening to a video on the Legion of the Damned and paired with Psychic Awakening I could see them coming back, with a damned version of Ferrus.

That or give us Rogal. A Primarch would actively need to try to die the way people claim he did. Suicide by heretic doesn't fit his character.

 cuda1179 wrote:

 Lord Damocles wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Malika2 wrote:
But even then it would mean that ... Land Raiders... could be phased out.

The day that Marines are phased out in favour of Primaris, I think you'll find the Land Raider suddenly gets "upgraded" and can now suddenly carry Primaris Marines.

The Chapter organisation of the Silver Templars (Ultima Founding) already features Land Raiders, so presumably background-wise Primaris do actually fit in them compfortably.

I have never really understood why GW made it so Primaris couldn't ride in Land Raiders, at least the "normal" sized ones. I would have accepted if they said those in Gravis armor were banned. Terminators are larger than Intercessors and they can fit in. Heck, Custodes have Land Raiders and they fit in. Primaris? Nope. I think that that little change would have upped the value of both Primaris AND the Land Raider. Let's just face it, the Land Raider does need a boost.


On a side note, when 8th launched I made an all-Primaris force using almost nothing but Dark Vengeance Marines. One of the few exceptions was a Terminus Ultra, as it doesn't carry anyone anyway.

Do you know how obnoxious the Manlet Marine defenders would be about squatting if Primaris were allowed the regular transports?

Kirioth has a video up, with an informed guess that the new boxed set is gonna be £120.

Here’s a link. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFHX72IarvQ

As I said, and he says, it’s just an informed guess.

I’m in two minds. £120 is a fair chunk of bread, no denying it, and no point in denying it. That I can afford it doesn’t matter here.

But.

Big but, like the sort Sir Mix A Lot serenaded us about....

If the two pics we’ve seen are indeed the contents? It seems more than we usually get in starter sets. If that’s right, that’s an important lens to view the price through.

No it doesn’t lower the price, or make it more affordable. But it would be a reminder that a higher price doesn’t necessarily means lower value.

I mean, the Intercessor Assaulr Squad would likely retail for the same as an Intercessor squad. Or £35. So that alone is a little over 25% of the cost.

Necron Warriors? Box seems to contain 20. They’re currently £22.50 for 10. Let’s say in the region of £45 (could be higher, could be lower. But I’m assuming the same, as you can see)

So already, that’s a retail of £80.00, leaving £40.99

Necrons then get what looks to be three Characters, possibly 4, a squad of the HTH Destroyers, and that glorious four legged tol boi.

Marines? 3 Bikes, Lt and 4 Bladeguard, 3 Bikes, Little Jimmy Head Chopper and a Chaplain.

So there’s a decent chunk of stuff in the box. So whilst the cost has almost certainly gone up, possibly to £120.00, I’m not entirely sure the overall value has gone down?

Other opinions are available.

Wouldn't be shocked if there's 'Warscroll Card' styled things in there as well.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Wouldn't be shocked if there's 'Warscroll Card' styled things in there as well.

I'm not going to lie: I'd personally like something like this.

As long as they're in a somewhat reasonable 'card' size, at least. FFS I can't stand the way GW sizes all their cards because I sleeve every damned card I can.

Looking at you, Necromunda cards... and those card sleeves that were available for like a month.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Do you know how obnoxious the Manlet Marine defenders would be about squatting if Primaris were allowed the regular transports?

You're talking about grognards that cry about every new release or change and freak out on the internet over it, but they also claim they haven't played since 3rd Edition was done. I think the worst thing we do is indulge them by letting them believe that their bellowing and whinging has worth.

 Adeptus Doritos wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Wouldn't be shocked if there's 'Warscroll Card' styled things in there as well.

I'm not going to lie: I'd personally like something like this.

As long as they're in a somewhat reasonable 'card' size, at least. FFS I can't stand the way GW sizes all their cards because I sleeve every damned card I can.

Looking at you, Necromunda cards... and those card sleeves that were available for like a month.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Do you know how obnoxious the Manlet Marine defenders would be about squatting if Primaris were allowed the regular transports?

You're talking about grognards that cry about every new release or change and freak out on the internet over it, but they also claim they haven't played since 3rd Edition was done. I think the worst thing we do is indulge them by letting them believe that their bellowing and whinging has worth.

Yeah I remember the Centurion freakout. They weren't even the most offending model visually and were easily modified to look better. I blame people that get their opinions from 1d4chan since they're basically the Fox News/MSNBC of 40k info.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Yeah I remember the Centurion freakout. They weren't even the most offending model visually and were easily modified to look better. I blame people that get their opinions from 1d4chan since they're basically the Fox News/MSNBC of 40k info.

You have always seemed like a person with a decent head on your shoulders, so I'm sure you won't be shocked at these things:

-A lot of people have opinions on 40k stuff that are basically 'meme' opinions. Very few of them actually play 40k, in fact- I'd wager that a huge chunk of this very site doesn't actually play the game, at best they own (or have pirated) a Codex.

-A lot of people just look at a Codex and do what I call 'Speculative Wargaming'. It's even worse with Necromunda, because based on the complaints about certain things I can tell exactly who's played an actual campaign and who's read the rulebook at home by themselves and just speculated.

-Out of the people that actually DO play the game, you could double the time they spend playing, building, painting, and learning their army and it wouldn't equal the amount of time they spend whining about it on the internet.